[Cattle Rustler]

(11-15-2016 10:49 PM)GlobalMan Wrote:  

(11-15-2016 03:31 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

Even watches: the gold standard in time-keeping is a quartz-based digital watch, which costs $5, not some old fashioned spring loaded cogs contraption that costs $5000.

This is an an extremely simplistic and incorrect conclusion. The value of Omega Speedmaster Dark Side Of The Moon, while marked up of course, isn't a "pretentious and fabricated illusion". A fake is $20 because it has a $3 assembly line quartz movement inside and not a $1000+ mechanical movement that has been made by hand and had hours spent on it assembling and regulating it, by people who went to school for years for this one task, and are paid well. To say the difference in cost is an illusion is silly.

A quality mechanical watch is not and never was about millisecond perfect time keeping. That is not why they are appreciated, and that is not why they cost much more.

Does a $5 quartz watch keep time as well as, or better than, a $5000 mechanical watch? Yes- but that has zero to do with justified value, and the difference in cost is not an "illusion" simply because the $5 keeps accurate time. That's like saying your KIA with a replica body kit is accurate and reliable therefore the high cost of a hand made Ferrari is a "pretentious illusion". The difference in cost of production is very real, and difference in quality is, well, there is simply no comparison. Is everyone interested enough in the amazing mechanics behind these little machines to justify spending what they cost? No. But that doesn't mean price is unjustified.

Will speak more about this an upcoming datasheet.

To OP-

Buy quality products because you appreciate and enjoy better products. If you do that then it won't matter if every other dude has a fake Rolex.

Oh boy, wait until you see this car.....some Mexican (probably illegal, their taste is horrendous compared to Americans of Mexican descent) in Laredo, Texas drives this car. I wonder what's marked on the car title.




To OP: Calm down bro, it seems like something triggered you. I'm sure people would love to buy the originals but your average thai would have to save for years before getting a legit LV bag, much less a Submariner or Catier shades. But yes, the original is better quality than the knock off. As the dude above me wrote:

Quote:

Buy quality products because you appreciate and enjoy better products. If you do that then it won't matter if every other dude has a fake Rolex.

Plus, people who buy the real products will know you're a real G so you're safe.

[booshala]

Replica clothing, watches and bags vary immensely in quality. I think if you can tell that quickly, then they're rocking a REALLY cheap fake. That not only says that you're trying to fake the funk, but you're not even doing a good job by being half assed at it. People like that aren't trying to buy a "quality" product, they just want the flash and name recognition. You shouldn't let that anger you by seeing them get away with it - it just shows that you're successful enough to buy the real thing and that you're prescient enough to see through what shouldn't be so obvious.

Lots of fashion in general is just a sliding scale of ripping off the top-end luxury brands: e.g. Zara, H&M, Forever 21. Not saying they are the same as putting "Zegna" or "Saint Laurent" on their clothing, but when they go to the high end fashion shows, take all the new couture trends and then put them in their stores weeks ahead of the original creators... it's in the same ballpark. And these are immensely successful businesses - the guy that owns Zara is worth what, $70B USD?

[GlobalMan]

(11-15-2016 07:28 PM)zatara Wrote:  

Good replicas are often made in the same factories as the authentic name brand watches, bags etc. They're of either identical quality, or in the case of watches, sometimes higher mechanical quality.

This is incorrect regarding watches, unless you are talking about known "name brand" watches made in China. There aren't parallel shadow assembly lines in the factories of Omega, Tag, etc- hell not even Seiko or Citizen (Japan), nor movements or cases or dials going out the back door. There is no "identical quality" fake to those brands, and they sure as hell are not being made in their factories.

This does exist in factories in china. These factories manufacture for low end "fashion brands" (as they are called in the industry) such as Invicta/Calvin Klein/Fossil/Nixon etc, and some manufacture for the good quality "micro brands" (Halios/Aevig/Helson/Borealis etc).

I know an owner of one of these micro brands, he's had his design stolen by his own contracted factory and they made the identical watch with a different name and are selling it. Nothing he could do about it, as the Chinese are mostly scumbags, as anyone who has done extensive business with them will tell you.

[GlobalMan]

(11-15-2016 11:38 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

A '97 Musterovette

[Rawmeo]

Some good points on both sides here. Personally, I believe that the price is something used to separate social classes.

For example: Why does a Lamborghini cost $150k+, when you can buy a Honda for 10 times less and it'll still bring you to your destination without any problems? Simple: The company wants people to know that Lamborghini owners are people with a high social status. No matter how they market it, if the price is on par with a cheaper model, it'll be full of low-income people driving Lamborghinis. If, tomorrow morning, Lamborghini would make a similar-looking model but costing only $20k, many owners would not buy another Lambo as their next car, as it has been "diluted" and is no longer associated with being rich.

Same goes for "gentlemen clubs". Let's say a club advertises itself as a gentlemen's club and asks people to suit up. If the entrance price is $10, then it'll be full of kids wearing cheap $150 suits, talking about the lastest video games, and running omega game. On the other hand, a club charging $250 as a cover charge and asking people to suit up is sure to be full of gentlement who can talk business, and are alphas.

This is precisely my point with replicas.

Phoenix Wrote:

That's the whole reason they can be faked so easily. You can't fake a fighter jet or a mansion.

I totally agree with this one. Tangible assets, which are worth more than jewelry / clothes, are better indicators of one's standing.

Nater Wrote:

Personally, I'd rather buy a no name brand than a replica.

IMO, good move. There are just as many "no name" bags that can look as good as a replica, without being a copycat.

zatara Wrote:

Why do you care about RyanBan's company value?

I do not care about the image of the company, just about the image of people who paid lots of money for the real stuff.

Suits Wrote:

OP, do you have an tips on buying fake watches the are indistinguishable from the real thing to anyone but an expert who literally opens the thing up and inspects in the internal elements?

I'm by no means an expert on this except by bringing it to a specialist. I'm mostly a casual reader on the topic but there are so many obvious signs that make distinguishing possible. However I've seen several replicas that I wasn't able to distinguish just by looking at it, and that would successfully fool many people as well.

[booshala]

(11-15-2016 11:30 PM)Suits Wrote:  

OP, do you have an tips on buying fake watches the are indistinguishable from the real thing to anyone but an expert who literally opens the thing up and inspects in the internal elements?

#1 way to tell a replica from a genuine is by holding it.

By far, it's ascertained through the heft and feel of the bracelet/strap. For example, Rolex uses a special type of steel in their stainless bracelets on their products. Other luxury brand watchmakers will use higher end metal which makes the watch heavier while also having a certain smoothness. Replicas don't have the same heft or smoothness. A lot of times the manufacturers will also cheap out on clasps, especially for the more unique versions.

Fakes that try to replicate gold/precious metals are much more easily noticeable as they're always plated and look flinty/cheap from the get-go. No one is going to invest thousands of dollars worth of precious metals into a replica watch. Replica leather straps are also almost always terrible and pretty much the only way around it is to buy a decent strap that'll set you back probably as much if not more than the actual replica itself.

But when it comes to just eyeing it on someone's wrist, it's going to be extremely hard to tell unless it's some jank-ass shit like "Bolex" typos or obviously different movements (sweeping vs tick-tick-tick motion). That's why I was thinking that Rawmeo is either really attuned to this stuff or the people he's encountering are rocking Furberry scarfs and Ralph Laurenzo polos.

[Pinocchio]

The problem with wearing a fake Rolex (and some other brands) is that the majority of people who are going to notice your watch are going to be other Rolex wearers. I wear a Rolex (real) and when I meet someone the first thing I do is register what watch they are wearing. In social and business contexts if I see someone wearing a Rolex or other luxury brand I will comment on it and try and talk to them/ ask to see their watch. I can't think of anything more embarrassing then being called out in social/ business meeting type situation on wearing a fake Rolex.

[GlobalMan]

double

[Suits]

There is never a downside to trying to be cool in the silliest of ways.

[Seadog]

I can see both sides here, but I think it's ridiculous to try and get validation and social status from the things you own. If your big into mechanics, and genuinely are interested in mechanical watches or well engineered cars fine, but buyng it just to show-off comes off as a huge waste of money and try-hard. You can get just as much interesting mechanics from a 30 yo Porsche as a new one. Maybe more since everything is so electronic these days. If you're a chump, getting a $150k car doesn't make you cool. It just makes you a chump with a 150k car. At least with electronics, many are manufactured in the same factory and then simply branded with whatever name. RAM is a good example that all comes out of a huge factory like any other commodity. If people are happy to buy an iphone for 2-3x what you can get a similarly speced one without the apple logo for fine, just means to give respect to apple for their marketing machine and buy apple stock. A fool and their money...

Starbucks is another example. Is one fancy coffee worth the same as 2 months worth of instant coffee at home? I concur its better, but 60x better?

Jimmy Kimmel had a bit a couple years ago before the iwatch came out. Stuck an apple logo on a Casio and asked people what they thought.

I feel that the two most important things are style and quality. Brand is sort of irrelevant for me. If you can find stylish clothing in decent shape at thrift stores for 10% of their new price, that presents far better value then anything from a store.

I forget which company this way, but essentially they stopped producing products all together, and now they let third parties do all manufacturing. Their only income comes completely licensing their various brands which developed good reputations.

I think this just goes back to human nature which is why it succeeds so well. People are insecure, a slave to their emotions/social pressure, and suck at honest price-value analysis.

[scrambled]

(11-15-2016 08:00 PM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:  

Rolex, for instance, makes almost every component of their watches in house. The same can be said for Panerai. Those better replicas usually have commonplace lower tier swiss movements (which are still pretty nice) but of the cookie cutter variety. The exteriors and cases are almost always made in chinese factories. The Chinese have really upped their production quality in the last decade.

But to me, this particular case, it feels like stuffing your pants with a sock to make your package bigger.

The "in-house" stuff is marketing copy; the Swiss watchmakers have always, for centuries, exchanged and used the same movements, to increase reliability and make repairs much easier. In house just means more expensive service.

http://www.ablogtowatch.com/push-in-hous...-industry/

The real reason in-house is marketed is because watches are now really a luxury good and not a utility, so they are making them as expensive as possible, on purpose, sort of like buying a horse today (show or racing) versus 150 years ago when you actually needed to ride one for daily transportation.

The better replicas more likely have Asian movements that are highly reliable; it's the cheaper replicas that have older, maybe refurbished ETAs.

The whole "fakes are for fakes" arguments I find unconvincing, as watches today are really a fashion accessory for men, and paying $500 instead of $20,000 for that is common sense. I would rather use the savings for travel.

[storm]

I once picked up great looking skeleton watch in SEA.

Turns out it was a fantasy watch of some obscure high class german watchmaker.

Everyone loved it and I would be wearing it to this day if it hadn't been stolen. It had cost me $35 and I would buy another in a heartbeat.

The mechanical chinese movements found in modern replicas are based on the venerable soviet tech which is very forgiving for manufacturers and extremely durable. Without getting into the specifics of the actual designs, a good rule of thumb is to pick a watch which does not have any ancillary features such as date or weekday because those use a different movement which is substantially less reliable.

[storm]

Also, does anyone know if you can get a completely unbranded watch?

As in, I send drawings / photoshop renders of the watch I want and receive a one-off. No markings, no brand.

One idea is to to pretend to be a manufacturer to some guys on alibaba...

[scrambled]

[quote] (11-16-2016 12:41 AM)booshala Wrote:  

[quote='Suits' pid='1445916' dateline='1479270635']
OP, do you have an tips on buying fake watches the are indistinguishable from the real thing to anyone but an expert who literally opens the thing up and inspects in the internal elements?[/quote]

(Not op but) Yes if the replica is a "1:1" or "Best" it is very hard to tell, even by a watch repairer. It should cost at least $250, preferably a bit more.

[quote]Quote:

#1 way to tell a replica from a genuine is by holding it. [/quote]
But who will be holding your wristwatch other than you?
[quote]Quote:

By far, it's ascertained through the heft and feel of the bracelet/strap. For example, Rolex uses a special type of steel in their stainless bracelets on their products. Other luxury brand watchmakers will use higher end metal which makes the watch heavier while also having a certain smoothness. Replicas don't have the same heft or smoothness. A lot of times the manufacturers will also cheap out on clasps, especially for the more unique versions.[/quote]
True only for cheap (<200$) replicas. If there is a clasp or more unique function, they either don't replicate it at all, or offer that feature replicated for an extra price. They can replicate anything, as long as you pay for it.

[quote]Quote:

Fakes that try to replicate gold/precious metals are much more easily noticeable as they're always plated and look flinty/cheap from the get-go. No one is going to invest thousands of dollars worth of precious metals into a replica watch. [/quote]

Correct, but most of the 1:1 popular and higher quality replicas are for sport or diving style models that are mostly stainless steel; and they can easily replicate gold via plating, it is visually indistinguishable, and real gold, although it will not last forever and eventually wear out.

[quote]Quote:

Replica leather straps are also almost always terrible and pretty much the only way around it is to buy a decent strap that'll set you back probably as much if not more than the actual replica itself. [/quote]

For leather strap watches, For the decent >$250 replicas, most offer an upgraded crocodile strap for an extra cost, which solves the problem. You can also easily buy an Alligator strap on several watch sites, or ebay, for not that much. Authentic watch owners buy custom straps all the time.

[quote]Quote:

I can't think of anything more embarrassing then being called out in social/ business meeting type situation on wearing a fake Rolex.[/quote]

That is a "FUD" persuasion/propaganda tactic. Never happens; no one is going to care what watch you wear in real life enough to "call it out" in a business meeting, where half the people are thinking about what's for lunch and the other half trying to brag about their 'projects'. Even if it were a replica, who cares? It means you didn't waste thousands of dollars.

[Fortis]

I hate to say it, but the Pinocchio dude talking about calling the other dudes out on their Rolex's sounds a bit insecure. Let's say you do see some dude rocking a fake? who cares? Feel good about yourself for having the skrill for the real shit, but embarrassing a dude for rocking a fake Rolex sounds like some high school shit.

A real G rocks his shit and knows his shit is real. He isn't looking at other dudes like that. That's like the dude who pulls high-quality chicks but is constantly looking down on dudes starting up in the game doing their damndest to pull the 6 and 7s. Are you pulling girls because you enjoy women or do you just pull chick because you wanna 1-up your fellow man?

[Kieran]

(11-15-2016 10:31 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

^yeah my mother works with glasses and she tells me that industry is a huge hustle. Chanel doens't make the fancy chanel sunglasses

This is pretty normal and how the fashion industry works. The designers at the various labels design the styles and provide the specs, and then production for certain items will be outsourced to specialist factories. Same with shoes, jeans, etc (for example Buttero produce shoes for many high end labels). Some labels do more production in house than others, but often a factory specialising in a certain skill will be able to produce a better product than if it were to be made in house.

[FlyBoy]

(11-18-2016 12:17 PM)storm Wrote:  

Also, does anyone know if you can get a completely unbranded watch?

As in, I send drawings / photoshop renders of the watch I want and receive a one-off. No markings, no brand.

One idea is to to pretend to be a manufacturer to some guys on alibaba...

You can have a bespoke watch made for you by The RGM Watch Co.

[booshala]

@ Scrambled: All of your points are on the mark. I realize I didn't make my position clear - I have nothing against replica watches, in fact I just bought a fantastic Royal Oak 15450 rep. But I have seen some truly awful ones in my day that make them much easier to spot out. Again, I reiterate if you can tell the watch is fake just by looking at it, the buyer really half-assed his purchase with a cheapo fake. That, or you are extremely into watches and can tell the little features/attributes to look for in a gen vs rep.

The best advice I could give to someone looking to get into buying a replica is to get on a forum like Replica Watch Info and study the brand/model you're looking to purchase.

[Enigma]

- Claims brands are pretentious and overpriced
- Buys fake version of said brand to signal to other pretentious people

I'm all for choosing value over brand names. But don't slap a Rolls Royce hood ornament on your Chrysler and try to act like you're just so above it all. If you were, you'd just buy the cheaper brand and own it.

[Suits]

(11-18-2016 12:45 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

That's like the dude who pulls high-quality chicks but is constantly looking down on dudes starting up in the game doing their damndest to pull the 6 and 7s.

What? 6 and 7s aren't quality chicks now?

[I DIDN'T KILL MY WIFE]

Honestly the amount of times some other person has held my watch in their hand I could probably could on one hand. Most of those were "hey baby girl fetch me my watch from the other room plz" while getting dressed.

I mean some concerns are just simply goofy if you think about them. Imagine some business partner asking you to feel your watch with a questioning look, he'd look like an absolute socially inept retard.

It's not even about the brand, most of the times it's about the design (and not about the inner workings). Some companies have a really nice design for watches, but the price tag is simply in no sane proportion to it. To be honest I'd much rather remove any kind of brand marking on my watches, it mostly adds nothing to it (except to cause OP to create threads like this lamenting the devauling of that precious brand). Sometimes even on clothes you'd find a good looking piece which is ruined by obnoxiously conspicuous branding. Yes even high end brands are the culprits.

[CaptainChardonnay]

^Funny you guys bring that up. The watch I have has been noticed by a few random people in my day to day life. I was at a store one time and this kid asks to see it so i take it off and show it to him. Guy was going wild and snapchatting it and everything to all his friends. Or another time, I'm at a nightclub and some guy comes up and says nice watch. Same thing at my tailors, some guy giving me a compliment on my watch as i was leaving and he was getting fitted for a custom made suit. It was all guys. If I do have a girl say something its usually something like, thats a big/shiny watch because they have no idea what it is.

[booshala]

(11-21-2016 01:28 PM)CaptainChardonnay Wrote:  

^Funny you guys bring that up. The watch I have has been noticed by a few random people in my day to day life. I was at a store one time and this kid asks to see it so i take it off and show it to him. Guy was going wild and snapchatting it and everything to all his friends. Or another time, I'm at a nightclub and some guy comes up and says nice watch. Same thing at my tailors, some guy giving me a compliment on my watch as i was leaving and he was getting fitted for a custom made suit. It was all guys. If I do have a girl say something its usually something like, thats a big/shiny watch because they have no idea what it is.

Sounds like you're rocking a Big Bang or PAM replica... I could never pull off something like that, but some of them look really legit.

[Pinocchio]

(11-18-2016 12:45 PM)Fortis Wrote:  

I hate to say it, but the Pinocchio dude talking about calling the other dudes out on their Rolex's sounds a bit insecure. Let's say you do see some dude rocking a fake? who cares? Feel good about yourself for having the skrill for the real shit, but embarrassing a dude for rocking a fake Rolex sounds like some high school shit.

A real G rocks his shit and knows his shit is real. He isn't looking at other dudes like that. That's like the dude who pulls high-quality chicks but is constantly looking down on dudes starting up in the game doing their damndest to pull the 6 and 7s. Are you pulling girls because you enjoy women or do you just pull chick because you wanna 1-up your fellow man?

I didn't say I would call people out and I wouldn't.

[Kdog]

Rawmeo: I am also in Bangkok and very interested in replica watches. Can you tell me the better places to pick up a high quality replica Rolex or maybe Movado? I heard MBK is a good place for them but I haven't checked yet. Do you know how the quality is at JJ market? Thanks in advance.