[berserk]

(05-13-2014 12:46 PM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(05-13-2014 04:21 AM)berserk Wrote:  

(05-13-2014 03:55 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 12:44 PM)berserk Wrote:  

I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but I am not sure Starting Strenght is really the best beginner program for non-athletes. We have to keep in mind, that SS is a program for high school athletes, particularly football players. For that reason, there is imo too much squatting. There is absolutely no need to squat 3 times a week for the average guy who just wants to get stronger and look better. Substitute in some powercleans or clean and press instead and use the saved energy for one more upper body excercise. I also think that overhead press should be done twice a week and flat bench removed entirely and swapped with incline or at least only done once.

SS is not a good upper body mass builder and deadlifts and powercleans are better for pure strength than the squat.

How the fuck are you even qualified to make this assertion?

4 years of lifting experience, having spent 2 years of those on starting strength and seeing upper body gains skyrocketing after substituting the flat bench with OHP and incline. It's a personal opinion based on personal experience. You will find many who will agree with me and many who will disagree. Personally, I don't see the point in squats 3 times a week, when they're so labor intensive and most guys who lift, if they are honest, would prefer more upper body mass. Powercleans and deadlifts are awesome at bulding a strong back, lats, biceps, core, without giving you squat leg doms.

What are your current lifts? What were they before SS?

Lets not turn this into a dick measuring contest. My current 1 rep maxes are 105kg bench (long lasting shoulder injury), 185kg dead, 135kg squat, 80kg ohp, 90kg clean and press.

SS was the first program I ran. Then I did 6 months Madcow and a customized 5x5 since then.

[obrero]

(05-13-2014 03:52 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(08-27-2013 01:47 PM)bars Wrote:  

Is Wendler 531 better than SS?

531 is an advanced (read: monthly progression) program. Unless you have specific time constraints or an average commitment to training, I would suggest doing novice work until your linear progression is exhausted. It could take years, if you're lucky.

531 is much lower volume and therefore leaves you with more gas in the tank to pursue physical activities other than squatting. The increases in weight are slower, but you are not completely spent all week like you would be from SS so you can indulge in some friendly sporting competition if you feel like it.

[Mongo]

Starting Strength is a good program to build a base for the rest of your lifting career. The only lift you can realistically argue gives more bang for your buck would be the Olympic lifts. The issue with that is the level of technicality of snatch and C&J for a beginner. A biomechanically sound squat is a natural motion that will put the entire body tension, has the greatest release of hormones that stimulate muscle growth, and build the strength foundation for success in the Olympic lifts as you learn them.

For evidence of this, look no further than China, as the Chinese have immense success lately in Olympic weightlifting, with a program centered on building absolute strength through squats and presses makes for excellent gains in the Olympic lifts.

http://sheltongstevens.blogspot.com/2014...l?spref=fb

[Hades]

Berserk, why is your clean and press a full ten kilos higher than your strict press?

Pretty sure I've weighed in on this once but SS is a mostly lower-body program structured around three days per week of progressive overload. If you want more upper body gains you're going to have to do upper body work on your off days. Shouldn't be a problem.

[TheFinalEpic]

(05-14-2014 11:31 AM)Hades Wrote:  

Berserk, why is your clean and press a full ten kilos higher than your strict press?

Pretty sure I've weighed in on this once but SS is a mostly lower-body program structured around three days per week of progressive overload. If you want more upper body gains you're going to have to do upper body work on your off days. Shouldn't be a problem.

Clean and press offers a momentum increase. Strict press you should be completely still, clean and press offers a push from the knee and explosion through the hips.

Also, lower body gains lead to upper body gains, it has to do with 1. the kinetic chain and 2. the release of testosterone and growth hormone from the largest muscle group in the body. Guys that neglect their legs are doomed to plateau at a certain point on the upper body.

[kosko]

(05-13-2014 11:09 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

Starting Strength is a good program to build a base for the rest of your lifting career. The only lift you can realistically argue gives more bang for your buck would be the Olympic lifts. The issue with that is the level of technicality of snatch and C&J for a beginner. A biomechanically sound squat is a natural motion that will put the entire body tension, has the greatest release of hormones that stimulate muscle growth, and build the strength foundation for success in the Olympic lifts as you learn them.

For evidence of this, look no further than China, as the Chinese have immense success lately in Olympic weightlifting, with a program centered on building absolute strength through squats and presses makes for excellent gains in the Olympic lifts.

http://sheltongstevens.blogspot.com/2014...l?spref=fb

Icing the testicles tho...

Same as the cold water bath/shower?

[BasketBounce]

I started this program two days ago.

All my lifts are so light so far. Today I squatted 85lbs. At 6'4", 195, I was definitely getting some "wtf bro?" stares.

When I was in high school, I took a weight training class. I started having back pain relatively early on, so I stopped taking the class seriously out of fear of hurting myself even more.

I can't help but think about how much stronger I'd be if I hadn't pussed out. Overall size isn't really an issue for me; my goal for now is to increase my overall strength.

But my experiences in high school have taught me that I sure as hell won't reach that goal if I hurt myself again due to improper form...

An ounce of prevention, fellas. Slow and steady. Make sure your form is right!

[RexImperator]

It gets heavy fast enough. Take advantage of the time it's relatively light to work on your form.

Push those knees out hard and keep everything tight. I find that putting effort into getting the form as good as possible gives you a challenge to focus on and overcome even when the weight isn't heavy. I do this with my warmup sets and treat them as if the bar is heavier than it really is.

[Mongo]

(05-14-2014 01:24 PM)kosko Wrote:  

(05-13-2014 11:09 PM)Mongo Wrote:  

Starting Strength is a good program to build a base for the rest of your lifting career. The only lift you can realistically argue gives more bang for your buck would be the Olympic lifts. The issue with that is the level of technicality of snatch and C&J for a beginner. A biomechanically sound squat is a natural motion that will put the entire body tension, has the greatest release of hormones that stimulate muscle growth, and build the strength foundation for success in the Olympic lifts as you learn them.

For evidence of this, look no further than China, as the Chinese have immense success lately in Olympic weightlifting, with a program centered on building absolute strength through squats and presses makes for excellent gains in the Olympic lifts.

http://sheltongstevens.blogspot.com/2014...l?spref=fb

Icing the testicles tho...

Same as the cold water bath/shower?

Same concept I believe, but I'm guessing it's significantly more effective. Wouldn't be able to tell you from experience however until I get real desperate for gains.

[berserk]

For the squat, I always found that breathing in deep full breath first, then tightening abs gives you a strong core during the lift, like a natural belt, then pressing up like you are trying to almost lift the bar. Keeps everything nice and steady.

[RexImperator]

I can't really compare it to anything else but I've been rather happy with the progress I've made on Starting Strength, so cheers to this thread. I'm trying a different routine now, but you can see my earlier posts here...I started out totally untrained back in August 2013 (9.5 months ago) knowing nothing about lifting weights and basically I could lift hardly anything (I was well below average on strength charts). Today I dead-lifted 415 lb. x 5.

Now, about the body fat issue, that's another thing entirely...

I probably could have made even faster progress but I've actually been restraining myself with regards to the caloric intake, trying to hold the line.

[Mongo]

(05-14-2014 04:47 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

I can't really compare it to anything else but I've been rather happy with the progress I've made on Starting Strength, so cheers to this thread. I'm trying a different routine now, but you can see my earlier posts here...I started out totally untrained back in August 2013 (9.5 months ago) knowing nothing about lifting weights and basically I could lift hardly anything (I was well below average on strength charts). Today I dead-lifted 415 lb. x 5.

Now, about the body fat issue, that's another thing entirely...

I probably could have made even faster progress but I've actually been restraining myself with regards to the caloric intake, trying to hold the line.

That's where a program such as 5/3/1 is great for the average lifter to transition into, as it is easily manipulated to allow for a focus on conditioning to burn off some of the excess mass you cultivate when reaping your novice gains.

[Blackliter]

Alright, so I listened to you guys and shortened my workout considerably. Today I did: squat, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press

Squat 3x4 Tried 105lb
the part on the shoulder where the bar rested hurt a ton..dialed back to 95lb.. didn't feel like I was working out my legs too much, more like the pain on the back stopped me

Deadlift 1x5 95lb
...grazed my knee which is slightly bleeding... how do you guys avoid it hitting your knee and grazing your shin??

Bench Press 1x5 95lb
barely could do it, form at the 5th rep was going all wonky... don't have a spotter so stopped

Shoulder press dumbells, 3x6 25lb (stepped up weight)
bench machine was taken so did this.. my weightlifting friend recommended to only add this to the starting strength routine

Bench 2x5 on machine 105lb
So much easier than regular bench and probably less workout... but safer since I can hook it anytime without a spotter.

Looking for a coach to teach my proper form but having trouble finding one. Need to learn powerclean and press too. Watched all the videos you guys linked but don't know for sure if proper form or not.

Also, I'm not feeling tired or worked out that much... but if I step up weight by 10lbs on any exercise I fail... is that normal?
kinda the reason why I was adding a bunch of exercises earlier

[berserk]

You don't stop because the bar hurts, use the pad if necessary on squats. If the shins get scraped, you need better positioning and more space from the barbell.

If you dont feel tired, you dont work hard enough. My guess is that you are not giving anywhere close to max effort. How do you know you will fail? Did you actually fail or did it just feel like it? Did you get suck in the hole on the squat? Did the bar get stuck on your chest? If not, then you didn't really fail.

Are you having DOMS (dealyed onset of muscle soreness)? If not, then you're still not training hard enough.

[Blackliter]

Tried and failed on squat and bench. bar got stuck on last rep and had to roll it off on bench. What do you mean suck in the hole?

Didn't try with deadlift. feeling slightly more exhausted now.. an hour after..

[TheFinalEpic]

(05-15-2014 11:55 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  

Tried and failed on squat and bench. bar got stuck on last rep and had to roll it off on bench. What do you mean suck in the hole?

Didn't try with deadlift. feeling slightly more exhausted now.. an hour after..

Stuck* in the hole is the bottom of any movement, but most specifically the squat. So this is where your ass is at the lowest point and you need to concentrate on explosion out of this position.

[RexImperator]

When dead-lifting use thick knee-length socks or sweatpants.

You can search for "Crossfit socks" or look on the Rogue fitness site to see the socks I'm referring to.

[kosko]

If you don't have a spotter then bench press with dumbbells. Try starting out with a flat bench and some 35lbs and then work up from there. You can just jack the dumbells away if you feel like your going to fail.

If your squat bar is hurting your back like mentioned use a foam bar pad, take a towel and roll it up, or wear a heavy hoody and that should provide enough padding. You will eventually need to get over that pain and building up your traps an super shoulder muscles will help with his as you will literally have a ball of muscle for the bar to rest on.

[el conquistador]

Workout 7 today.

Squat 230 3x5
Bench 170
Deadlift 340

Bench and shoulder press are weak but I guess that its true for most.

I've swapped out the power cleans for bent over rows. Will this slow my gains? I know Rippetoe is against it.

[el conquistador]

(05-15-2014 11:12 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  

Alright, so I listened to you guys and shortened my workout considerably. Today I did: squat, deadlift, shoulder press, bench press

Squat 3x4 Tried 105lb
the part on the shoulder where the bar rested hurt a ton..dialed back to 95lb.. didn't feel like I was working out my legs too much, more like the pain on the back stopped me

Deadlift 1x5 95lb
...grazed my knee which is slightly bleeding... how do you guys avoid it hitting your knee and grazing your shin??
Bench Press 1x5 95lb
barely could do it, form at the 5th rep was going all wonky... don't have a spotter so stopped

Shoulder press dumbells, 3x6 25lb (stepped up weight)
bench machine was taken so did this.. my weightlifting friend recommended to only add this to the starting strength routine

Bench 2x5 on machine 105lb
So much easier than regular bench and probably less workout... but safer since I can hook it anytime without a spotter.

Looking for a coach to teach my proper form but having trouble finding one. Need to learn powerclean and press too. Watched all the videos you guys linked but don't know for sure if proper form or not.

Also, I'm not feeling tired or worked out that much... but if I step up weight by 10lbs on any exercise I fail... is that normal?
kinda the reason why I was adding a bunch of exercises earlier

I always dealfit in sweatpants because I run the bar up my shins for good form.

[GTS]

(05-16-2014 07:16 AM)copac Wrote:  

Workout 7 today.

Squat 230 3x5
Bench 170
Deadlift 340

Bench and shoulder press are weak but I guess that its true for most.

I've swapped out the power cleans for bent over rows. Will this slow my gains? I know Rippetoe is against it.

They're good if you can get bent over rows to work effectively. A lot of beginners and starting intermediates have trouble recruiting their back properly and it just turns into an ineffective arm exercise. Power cleans, pull ups and chin ups are a lot better until the body can perform effective pulling patterns.

[berserk]

(05-16-2014 07:16 AM)copac Wrote:  

Workout 7 today.

Squat 230 3x5
Bench 170
Deadlift 340

Bench and shoulder press are weak but I guess that its true for most.

I've swapped out the power cleans for bent over rows. Will this slow my gains? I know Rippetoe is against it.

Coming along nicely with those stats after only workout number 7? Though this is why I feel SS is lacking in upper body. Your squat and dead numbers are pretty good already, but your bench could be better.

As for power cleans, it is a much more taxing exercise comparable to squat or deadlifts. It's not only a back exercise, you will feel it in glutes, arms and hams. The problem is that it does take some technique to do the powerclean, I have awful technique too but still do them, because they give such an amazing full body and cardio workout. If you do the rows, remember to do them with your upper body parallel almost to the floor and do stop and go. Most people do rows on something like 45 degrees which isn't correct and is more of a mix of a shrug and row. If you do rows, get some pullups in too.

[Mentavious]

Which do you guys prefer straight leg dead lifts or regular DL?

[roberto]

(05-13-2014 11:15 AM)berserk Wrote:  

I still think you need to eat a lot more protein and that is your problem if you're not gaining. That or low test. Are you allowed to eat eggs and butter or are you vegan? Stuff yourself with 2-3 eggs a day fried in butter.

You're on the right lines, but I don't think you're going far enough. if you ask me he needs to eat more like 6-9 eggs a day. They really are nature's superfood. I could never get bored of eggs, I have five scrambled every morning and another half dozen poached with salads or in an omelette throughout the day.

Meat wise, I've been eating only fish for the last few months- not really touched the red meat. (Peskitarian? Is that the one?) I need to get back on the steak.

[berserk]

(05-16-2014 10:21 AM)roberto Wrote:  

(05-13-2014 11:15 AM)berserk Wrote:  

I still think you need to eat a lot more protein and that is your problem if you're not gaining. That or low test. Are you allowed to eat eggs and butter or are you vegan? Stuff yourself with 2-3 eggs a day fried in butter.

You're on the right lines, but I don't think you're going far enough. if you ask me he needs to eat more like 6-9 eggs a day. They really are nature's superfood. I could never get bored of eggs, I have five scrambled every morning and another half dozen poached with salads or in an omelette throughout the day.

Meat wise, I've been eating only fish for the last few months- not really touched the red meat. (Peskitarian? Is that the one?) I need to get back on the steak.

I love eggs too, could nothing but eggs and bacon for a very long time. I don't have a kitchen atm, but when I do and want some stable healthy food, I usually make scrambled eggs with smoked salmon, either by itself or with a bagel and pesto. Eggs + smoked salmon is the best combination of healthy food I know. Unfortunately smoked salmon and salmon in general is expensive due to the greedy japanese and their sushi. I wish I could live somewhere where you could catch them yourself, but those places are far between.