[No Habit]

Blackliter do you eat 50g protein a day in total? Bump that up to at least 100g. I always try to get (0.8 * weight in pounds)g protein a day.

A lot of good knowledge in this post: Calculating Calories and Macronutritients

[RexImperator]

What are your calories and macros? Also, I suggest you post on Jordan's Nutrition sub-forum at the Starting Strength forums.

[cmrocks]

(05-10-2014 12:21 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  

Been doing starting strength for 2 months now with barely any gains...

vegetarian here and I'm breaking even on food... don't know how to increase, or what to eat.

Bench: 85lb
Squat: 95
Deadlift: 95
Pullups... 3 max
Pushups: 18 max

I have 2 whey protein smoothies a day with almond milk....50grams there. I weight 130lb

Can you drink real milk as a vegetarian? If so, try drinking half a gallon of 2% of whole milk per day. That will help pack on the weight. At 130 lbs, you likely don't have to worry much about getting fat.

[Billy Chubbs]

@Blackliter

What are your long term goals? Are you more interested in the aesthetic side, do you want to be pure strength?

[Blackliter]

yup trying to bump protein to between 100-130g. Yup I drink 2% and sometimes almond milk.

My long term goals are on the aesthetic side...but you have to understand at my level even pure strength will look aesthetically good. My arms are skinnier than some of the girls... and im not talking about the fat ones.

I'm at 133lb, trying to stabilize at 150 to get normal. and then hit 170lb for jacked 2 years down.

Probably need to first worry about seriously gaining 20lbs...and keeping it. The second I do cardio I lose it fast.

[berserk]

Why are you a vegetarian? How many big and strong guys do you know who doesn't eat meat?

[Remington]

(05-10-2014 09:12 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  

yup trying to bump protein to between 100-130g. Yup I drink 2% and sometimes almond milk.

My long term goals are on the aesthetic side...but you have to understand at my level even pure strength will look aesthetically good. My arms are skinnier than some of the girls... and im not talking about the fat ones.

I'm at 133lb, trying to stabilize at 150 to get normal. and then hit 170lb for jacked 2 years down.

Probably need to first worry about seriously gaining 20lbs...and keeping it. The second I do cardio I lose it fast.

Get yourself on a strong work out schedule. At least 3x a week where you put emphasis on different major muscle groups. You will gain weight like crazy but you need to follow a solid routine with super setting as well as eating right. PM me if you would like a solid workout.

[cpred]

(05-10-2014 12:21 PM)Blackliter Wrote:  

Been doing starting strength for 2 months now with barely any gains...

vegetarian here and I'm breaking even on food... don't know how to increase, or what to eat.

Bench: 85lb
Squat: 95
Deadlift: 95
Pullups... 3 max
Pushups: 18 max

I have 2 whey protein smoothies a day with almond milk....50grams there. I weight 130lb

It may be possible to have gains with a veg diet. Just keep the protein intake up and the carbs low. I started seeing gains with sticking to a system/routine. I chose the 5x5 strong lifts method. It got me focused on my workouts and it kept adding weight to each workout so it was easy to track my progress. Just stay focused and keep the determination going.

[Blackliter]

Ive been vegetarian for life for several reasons...its not changing that's for sure. Sure I'll pm you Remington, thanks!

[Billy Chubbs]

It's hard to give solid advice to a vegetarian, since all my knowledge of gains come from a carnivore's viewpoint.

Have you figured out your necessary cal intake? There's lots of free calculators on the net, but if you don't trust online you should set up an appointment with your doctor and try to find out. So long as you have a rough idea of what you burn everyday naturally you know how much more you should eat in order to gain.

[kosko]

If your a life vegetarian your might have a genetic advantage to it if it's something that is heritage based. The key is unlocking the potential if so. To many vegetarians rely to much carbs/simple energy when you need to focus on dense vegetable mass, protein, and mico-nutrients. Don't focus so much on hitting carnivore levels of protein and energy intakes and focus more on the quality and density of the energy you are consuming as that will help you out a lot more.

I am not sure how hardcore you are to no meat but look into Amino Acids. Big time. Like it's a by product and a processed thing, the chains are extracted from god knows where, but it will work. Big time.To help you achieve gains.

Also look at websites such as 'True Nutrition' where you can create your own hybrid blend of vegetarian protein powders. There is a sweat spot of split pea, and brown rice protein to help you get gains. Some choose one or the other but I find from the few vegetarian dudes whom I know whom lift and get gains, they mix the two, or alternate. Also, if your not against eggs you can throw in egg white protein into the mix also.

Here is the link:
truenutrition.com/c-71-vegan-options.aspx

The advantage of that site is you can make your own master blend with flavoring and they are priced reasonable also. It pretty much costs the same as the store if your reasonable in your choices.

[Blackliter]

Interesting, thanks. Yes vegetarian is heritage based. Hmm I'll have to try that. Didn't think about going for dense vegetables and such. I can't eat that much in a sitting so that might be better. Trying to stay natural but am open to supplements. I'll take a look into amino acids.. any side effects or gmo stuff that I should be aware of?

Perfect - "True Nutrition", thanks. I'll get my next protein tub from there.

Also from using a bunch of calculators I've been getting a max of 2900 calorie intake for weight gain.. I've been hitting that consistently for awhile.

[PHC19]

(05-10-2014 12:28 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

What are your calories and macros? Also, I suggest you post on Jordan's Nutrition sub-forum at the Starting Strength forums.

I've been working directly on nutrition with Jordan for a year.

He's been doing my programming since September. It has been worth every penny.

Check out his article, "To Be a Beast". It's on his website, barbell medicine.com.

I've been doing basic barbell work for approximately 3 years. Prior to that, I did CrossFit for several years. I have my CF L1, as well as my Starting Strength certificate. I've trained in CF and SS gyms, and currently work out in my garage.I work as a professional firefighter.

I will tell you, without reservation, that basic barbell work (not in the training progression sense, the lifts: squat, DL, press, bench) with supplemental HIIT are vastly superior to CF. I am significantly stronger, just as lean, and equally metabolically fit today, than to my CF days. During my CF days, I trained every program under the sun, including SEALFit, Military Athlete, OPT, and main site. I was weak as fuck, and suffered chronic lower back injuries (and general inflammation) as a result of pseudo-scientific, shoddy CF programming. CF leaves you inflamed, overtrained, overzealous, and ultimately uninspired. It's basically a group-think cult of personality, dubiously led by the head sot in charge, GG. I'm not blowing smoke up your ass...I have a lot of skin in the game. I have another 30 years before I retire, and I need my body to perform.

I would destroy the old me, and I'm just getting started. My significantly increased strength due to fairly simple programs has translated directly over to my job, confidence, etc. in ways CF never could. It will continue to do so as I begin BJJ this year, and transition back into single life after a four year relationship, which recently ended.

1st post BTW...took me awhile to get on.

[PHC19]

(08-27-2013 01:47 PM)bars Wrote:  

Is Wendler 531 better than SS?

531 is an advanced (read: monthly progression) program. Unless you have specific time constraints or an average commitment to training, I would suggest doing novice work until your linear progression is exhausted. It could take years, if you're lucky.

[PHC19]

(05-07-2014 12:44 PM)berserk Wrote:  

I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but I am not sure Starting Strenght is really the best beginner program for non-athletes. We have to keep in mind, that SS is a program for high school athletes, particularly football players. For that reason, there is imo too much squatting. There is absolutely no need to squat 3 times a week for the average guy who just wants to get stronger and look better. Substitute in some powercleans or clean and press instead and use the saved energy for one more upper body excercise. I also think that overhead press should be done twice a week and flat bench removed entirely and swapped with incline or at least only done once.

SS is not a good upper body mass builder and deadlifts and powercleans are better for pure strength than the squat.

How the fuck are you even qualified to make this assertion?

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(05-13-2014 03:55 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 12:44 PM)berserk Wrote:  

I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but I am not sure Starting Strenght is really the best beginner program for non-athletes. We have to keep in mind, that SS is a program for high school athletes, particularly football players. For that reason, there is imo too much squatting. There is absolutely no need to squat 3 times a week for the average guy who just wants to get stronger and look better. Substitute in some powercleans or clean and press instead and use the saved energy for one more upper body excercise. I also think that overhead press should be done twice a week and flat bench removed entirely and swapped with incline or at least only done once.

SS is not a good upper body mass builder and deadlifts and powercleans are better for pure strength than the squat.

How the fuck are you even qualified to make this assertion?

[berserk]

(05-13-2014 03:55 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 12:44 PM)berserk Wrote:  

I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but I am not sure Starting Strenght is really the best beginner program for non-athletes. We have to keep in mind, that SS is a program for high school athletes, particularly football players. For that reason, there is imo too much squatting. There is absolutely no need to squat 3 times a week for the average guy who just wants to get stronger and look better. Substitute in some powercleans or clean and press instead and use the saved energy for one more upper body excercise. I also think that overhead press should be done twice a week and flat bench removed entirely and swapped with incline or at least only done once.

SS is not a good upper body mass builder and deadlifts and powercleans are better for pure strength than the squat.

How the fuck are you even qualified to make this assertion?

4 years of lifting experience, having spent 2 years of those on starting strength and seeing upper body gains skyrocketing after substituting the flat bench with OHP and incline. It's a personal opinion based on personal experience. You will find many who will agree with me and many who will disagree. Personally, I don't see the point in squats 3 times a week, when they're so labor intensive and most guys who lift, if they are honest, would prefer more upper body mass. Powercleans and deadlifts are awesome at bulding a strong back, lats, biceps, core, without giving you squat leg doms.

[Blackliter]

(05-13-2014 04:21 AM)berserk Wrote:  

4 years of lifting experience, having spent 2 years of those on starting strength and seeing upper body gains skyrocketing after substituting the flat bench with OHP and incline. It's a personal opinion based on personal experience. You will find many who will agree with me and many who will disagree. Personally, I don't see the point in squats 3 times a week, when they're so labor intensive and most guys who lift, if they are honest, would prefer more upper body mass. Powercleans and deadlifts are awesome at bulding a strong back, lats, biceps, core, without giving you squat leg doms.

PH19 thanks for the advice and your story. Currently I'd want more upper body mass and as fast as possible.

I can't do a powerclean at all though. not going past the point of deadlift..

Also, I do full-body workouts currently instead of isolating them. I was talking with another roosher and he recommended isolating.. thoughts?

Current workout regiment every other day
Bench
Squat
Shoulder press with dumbells
Chest Fly machine
Calf raises
Back Rows
Tricep pulldowns
Behind the back, barbell forearm curls

not doing powerclean or deadlift at the new gym for this month. Trying to find ways to make it happen though, maybe take barball off squat rack. I've seen no one do it though at this gym.

going to add dips and maybe pull-ups. ab ripper X on off days. Any suggestions for lower ab workouts that can be done at home? and would appreciate tweaks to the above.

Thanks Remington, just want to hear about isolate vs full body every other day before switching to your recommended routine

[berserk]

I wouldn't bother with ab work. You will get training from doing OHP, deadlift and squats. As for isolation, better with base strength and there are those who would say isolation is mainly for guys on the juice. The reason I recommed OHP over bench is that it is also a compound movement that requires your back and core to work as well as shoulders, triceps and chest. That and the deadlift are the kings of compounds. OHP used to be the push strength standard in strongman competitions until the 60s or so.

I still think you need to eat a lot more protein and that is your problem if you're not gaining. That or low test. Are you allowed to eat eggs and butter or are you vegan? Stuff yourself with 2-3 eggs a day fried in butter.

[kosko]

I would say split up your routines since you mentioned your having a hard time keeping on mass even with close to 3000 calories a day in food. Your routine is going to tax your whole system more, burn through more calories, a not give your muscle groups a good amount of time to rest, recover, and grow. For example my legs were sore for 3 days after my last leg day. If I followed our routine they wouldn't even of been fully rested and recovers before I hit then again.

The most easy way is just to split things up by motion. Have a 'push','pull', and 'leg' day and alternate. Have the bulk of your days focused around compound movements such as barbell presses and rows.

[YoungDominican]

Do you continue to lift if you catch a cold or flu?

[Mongo]

(05-13-2014 10:56 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  

PH19 thanks for the advice and your story. Currently I'd want more upper body mass and as fast as possible.

I can't do a powerclean at all though. not going past the point of deadlift..

Also, I do full-body workouts currently instead of isolating them. I was talking with another roosher and he recommended isolating.. thoughts?

Current workout regiment every other day
Bench
Squat
Shoulder press with dumbells
Chest Fly machine
Calf raises
Back Rows
Tricep pulldowns
Behind the back, barbell forearm curls

not doing powerclean or deadlift at the new gym for this month. Trying to find ways to make it happen though, maybe take barball off squat rack. I've seen no one do it though at this gym.

going to add dips and maybe pull-ups. ab ripper X on off days. Any suggestions for lower ab workouts that can be done at home? and would appreciate tweaks to the above.

Thanks Remington, just want to hear about isolate vs full body every other day before switching to your recommended routine

When I first tried Starting Strength, I did what you've done. I added in a bunch of accessory bullshit that ended up taking away from the gains I could have reaped if I just followed the program. Pare your exercise selection down to this:

Squat
Bench
Row
Military Press (with a bar)
Pull-ups
Deadlift

If you want to hit all of those in a day, fine. Usually I've found that picking one lower body, one press, and one pull gives me plenty of work to do. Provided you go at them as hard as you can. If you focus on those exercises, you will build every single part of your body, both in size and in function.

Also, find a coach to teach you how to power clean, if not do all the olympic lifts. It will be well worth your time and money in the long term.

[Veloce]

(05-13-2014 10:56 AM)Blackliter Wrote:  

PH19 thanks for the advice and your story. Currently I'd want more upper body mass and as fast as possible.

I can't do a powerclean at all though. not going past the point of deadlift..

Also, I do full-body workouts currently instead of isolating them. I was talking with another roosher and he recommended isolating.. thoughts?

Current workout regiment every other day
Bench
Squat
Shoulder press with dumbells
Chest Fly machine
Calf raises
Back Rows
Tricep pulldowns
Behind the back, barbell forearm curls

not doing powerclean or deadlift at the new gym for this month. Trying to find ways to make it happen though, maybe take barball off squat rack. I've seen no one do it though at this gym.

going to add dips and maybe pull-ups. ab ripper X on off days. Any suggestions for lower ab workouts that can be done at home? and would appreciate tweaks to the above.

Thanks Remington, just want to hear about isolate vs full body every other day before switching to your recommended routine

That routine is kinda wonky, you've got basic compounds mixed up with random BB stuff like the forearm curls. Am I correct in understanding you do the same routine every day?

Since you just started lifting you really should just be focusing on compounds. That's why it's called STARTING strength. Forget about dumbells for the time being, at least for your first 6 months. Any guy that recommends isolation work probably forgot about what it was like to start out.

After a couple months of dicking around with different routines I'm back on Stronglifts. The difference this time is that I can get through my reps and still have plenty of energy leftover for isolation work. It takes time to build up to that though so forget it for now. I'd say after one year of SS or SL you can start looking at implementing bodybuilding exercises but you should maintain your powerlifting routine.

This is my routine right now:

Workout A:
Squat 5x5
Bench 5x5
Yates Rows 5x5 (overhand is fucking with my wrist pain right now)
Upright rows 3x8
DB bench 5x10
One arm DB row 5x10
DB incline flyes 3x8
Situps 3 sets
Hyperextensions 3 sets

Workout B:

Squat 5x5
OH Press 5x5
DL 1x5
Seated DB OH Press 5x10
Lat Pulldowns 3x8
Curls for Girls 3x8
Pullups 3 sets
Situps 3 sets
Hyperextensions 3 sets

Switch routines every other day. This leaves me pretty drained by the time I leave the gym but I feel great for the rest of the day and no issues with recovery.

My goal is to work up to something like this: http://www.directlyfitness.com/store/p-h...ut-system/

[Menace]

The best thing I ever did for myself was to get a trainer. I can't just do it on my own all the time. It is worth the money for me. It has also made me like going to the gym more. I found a guy who basically looks like I want to look like in theory (he's my height but about 200 lbs with great definition and size).

Also, for working out on your own, I am trying out HIT. You can't quite get the static and negative failure without a partner, but probably can get 70-80% of the benefit. You can use free weights or machines as you like (I do both).

[PHC19]

(05-13-2014 04:21 AM)berserk Wrote:  

(05-13-2014 03:55 AM)PHC19 Wrote:  

(05-07-2014 12:44 PM)berserk Wrote:  

I'm probably going to get blasted for this, but I am not sure Starting Strenght is really the best beginner program for non-athletes. We have to keep in mind, that SS is a program for high school athletes, particularly football players. For that reason, there is imo too much squatting. There is absolutely no need to squat 3 times a week for the average guy who just wants to get stronger and look better. Substitute in some powercleans or clean and press instead and use the saved energy for one more upper body excercise. I also think that overhead press should be done twice a week and flat bench removed entirely and swapped with incline or at least only done once.

SS is not a good upper body mass builder and deadlifts and powercleans are better for pure strength than the squat.

How the fuck are you even qualified to make this assertion?

4 years of lifting experience, having spent 2 years of those on starting strength and seeing upper body gains skyrocketing after substituting the flat bench with OHP and incline. It's a personal opinion based on personal experience. You will find many who will agree with me and many who will disagree. Personally, I don't see the point in squats 3 times a week, when they're so labor intensive and most guys who lift, if they are honest, would prefer more upper body mass. Powercleans and deadlifts are awesome at bulding a strong back, lats, biceps, core, without giving you squat leg doms.

What are your current lifts? What were they before SS?