Hello,
I read this article, found it quite good, so I'm sharing it with you.
14 myths about day game
Enjoy!
I read this article, found it quite good, so I'm sharing it with you.
14 myths about day game
Enjoy!
Day game myths
I stopped reading after
"Going to bars and clubs can actually PREVENT you from getting the girls you want"
"Going to bars and clubs can actually PREVENT you from getting the girls you want"
Irish
A more appropriate title would be "Disadvantages of Night Game", and a list of stuff everyone here knows forwards and backwards, rather than "Day Game Myths."
"Going to bars and clubs can actually PREVENT you from getting the girls you want": This is a satirical statement aiming to kick start the article and nothing more.
The guy has a point. There are people who are more comfortable with day game rather than night game. Daygame is more about novelty and conversation skils. Night game leans more towards fun energetic vibe.
I tried both, and found daygame way more suitable for me. I can integrate it in my daily life and approaching girl sober is the best cure for approach anxiety. Of course, this does not mean you can't stay sober in a night club.
Last but not least, the girls you see and approach during the day can also be the same girl who go out at night to party. She can be a slut at night and a good girl in the day. Different environment brings a different personality in the same person.
Beginners should try out both day game and night game and see which works best for them.
The guy has a point. There are people who are more comfortable with day game rather than night game. Daygame is more about novelty and conversation skils. Night game leans more towards fun energetic vibe.
I tried both, and found daygame way more suitable for me. I can integrate it in my daily life and approaching girl sober is the best cure for approach anxiety. Of course, this does not mean you can't stay sober in a night club.
Last but not least, the girls you see and approach during the day can also be the same girl who go out at night to party. She can be a slut at night and a good girl in the day. Different environment brings a different personality in the same person.
Beginners should try out both day game and night game and see which works best for them.
^ Another thing to remember is it's fairly location and culture-dependent, while nightclubs are quite similar the world over.
I pretty much focus on online and night game exclusively these days and have essentially given up on day game. Suburban New England is a terrible environment for it, probably in part due to its Puritan roots and very insular social nature. A guy just randomly talking to another stranger on the street or in the grocery store is considered pretty damn socially unacceptable; most men seem uncomfortable interacting with people outside their social circle, much less women.
The most common result of a daygame approach is simply the woman being puzzled as to why you're talking with her and not really knowing what to do. I sometimes do a little better trying to engage women in coffee shops, etc. and while I get the sense that they're friendly and might even meet up for a date if I hit them up on Tinder first, they're clearly pretty uncomfortable with the "unscripted" nature of the interaction that's going down.
Several women I've dated around here tell me the same thing: "It's weird when guys randomly talk to me" "it's creepy when some guy in a store tries to start talking to me" "I don't really know how to talk to people I'm not friends with" etc.
I also think the article sells night game short by simply complaining that it's soooooo difficult to just come in solo and swoop a girl back to your place in two hours. While that still happens, clubs have evolved over time to become extensions of social circle game, and by not becoming a regular fixture at a spot, getting to know the scene and become the "cool guy" with the social proofing that comes along with it, one isn't leveraging it to the full potential.
The idea that it's only crazy attention-whore chicks who go to bars or clubs and the only way to meet a "good girl" is through day game is just hamsterization.
![[Image: malehamster.gif]](https://rooshvforum.network/images/smilies/new/malehamster.gif)
I pretty much focus on online and night game exclusively these days and have essentially given up on day game. Suburban New England is a terrible environment for it, probably in part due to its Puritan roots and very insular social nature. A guy just randomly talking to another stranger on the street or in the grocery store is considered pretty damn socially unacceptable; most men seem uncomfortable interacting with people outside their social circle, much less women.
The most common result of a daygame approach is simply the woman being puzzled as to why you're talking with her and not really knowing what to do. I sometimes do a little better trying to engage women in coffee shops, etc. and while I get the sense that they're friendly and might even meet up for a date if I hit them up on Tinder first, they're clearly pretty uncomfortable with the "unscripted" nature of the interaction that's going down.
Several women I've dated around here tell me the same thing: "It's weird when guys randomly talk to me" "it's creepy when some guy in a store tries to start talking to me" "I don't really know how to talk to people I'm not friends with" etc.
I also think the article sells night game short by simply complaining that it's soooooo difficult to just come in solo and swoop a girl back to your place in two hours. While that still happens, clubs have evolved over time to become extensions of social circle game, and by not becoming a regular fixture at a spot, getting to know the scene and become the "cool guy" with the social proofing that comes along with it, one isn't leveraging it to the full potential.
The idea that it's only crazy attention-whore chicks who go to bars or clubs and the only way to meet a "good girl" is through day game is just hamsterization.
Quote:Quote:
....there is simply nobody else doing it - zero competition!
Meanwhile, in Kiev...
![[Image: mosh-pit.gif]](https://popculturehasaids.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/mosh-pit.gif)
Irish
I like Chase, but his blog posts often leave something to be desired
1. Place != Mentality
You can meet a regular normal girl at a club on Friday night.
2. Night Games are only good for hook ups Mentality
I see this a lot. It's not true.
But his point about your game getting better, giving you the skills to go after what you want - and being susceptible to "love" is very true.
3. More women in clubs
This is playing with semantics. I see more attractive girls on my way to work than I do anytime of the day. But they aren't in a social mood. You need a whole lot of game to break through "work mode".
Clubs are about
- density
- right social atmosphere
A chick in a club might be bitchy, a chick on her way to work (or going about her day) is in a very diff frame of mind - one that can be harder to break through, and much harder to pull for an instadate.
4. More Beautiful
More done up, and I have a preference for girls that wear heels when they go out. In my city, if a chick is in 4" heels during the day - she's either an M-Street stripper or from a different part of the world.
5. Women don't go to clubs to meet boyfriends
This is actually a plus for nightlife.
A young player (and most old players) are looking for girls who want to experience life right now. Want to take in the pleasures of life.
The bar for sex partner is much lower than that for husband/father of children.
6. Club pulls are about confidence/some guys don't have it in "real life"
Absolute malarkey. Fear is fear.
7. Club guys are no comp
Well if you have game, usually they aren't.
Doesn't matter if they're more attractive - game is about getting folks to react to you. You can blast through a set, get him to react to you, get her to react to you - and you've neutralized his pretty boy characteristics because you go straight for her EMOTIONAL jugular.
Day game rarely has male competition. So if you focus on that, you can neither attack nor defend, because you have no experience
8. Good for flirting
Ehh, cuts both ways
9. Music makes people more social
Showing the flaws in his game in that he doesn't use loud music to pull.
You pull in those environments by feeling the music, dancing well, looking inviting, and going for more non-verbal physical openers.
THAT IS WHY SHE'S THERE. She wants to get overwhelmed by the environment, get her mind out of thinking mode.
If you don't understand that, you can't pull at a loud club.
10. Work All Week..
In a decent size city, there's night life of all varieties on every day of the week. The real issue is finding the places you like to go, that also have women.
Chase sounds young and inexperienced, but Tuesday night @ 6:30 PM at a bar near the central business district where people go to unwind is a perfect place to meet, take for coffee, dinner, and then dessert at home. Put the chick in an uber @ 10:30 and still be ready for work @ 7 AM the next morning. Happy Hour game is how lots of relationships start.
If you work downtown and you're at the book store on your lunch break - how much time do you really have to
- find a chick
- run your game
- extend to an instadate/make major impact so that the phone # is solid
or
- bang her within a few hours of meeting her?
- how much time does she have to get attracted to you and start to trust you?
There are social/societal constraints to day game that most of the day game proponents don't ever talk about. Recent immigrants, students, and tourists can be talked to at 1 pm and fucked by 5 - But the rest of us have jobs.
__________________________________________________
I find that a lot of these gurus with e-books, courses, dvd sets, skype coaching, membership sites - they have a real constrained view of what the world is like.
Maybe it's because they all come from the same background and use the same language - but all roads seem to point to the same direction. Like there's an e-book on how to make seduction courses.
WIA
1. Place != Mentality
You can meet a regular normal girl at a club on Friday night.
2. Night Games are only good for hook ups Mentality
I see this a lot. It's not true.
But his point about your game getting better, giving you the skills to go after what you want - and being susceptible to "love" is very true.
3. More women in clubs
This is playing with semantics. I see more attractive girls on my way to work than I do anytime of the day. But they aren't in a social mood. You need a whole lot of game to break through "work mode".
Clubs are about
- density
- right social atmosphere
A chick in a club might be bitchy, a chick on her way to work (or going about her day) is in a very diff frame of mind - one that can be harder to break through, and much harder to pull for an instadate.
4. More Beautiful
More done up, and I have a preference for girls that wear heels when they go out. In my city, if a chick is in 4" heels during the day - she's either an M-Street stripper or from a different part of the world.
5. Women don't go to clubs to meet boyfriends
This is actually a plus for nightlife.
A young player (and most old players) are looking for girls who want to experience life right now. Want to take in the pleasures of life.
The bar for sex partner is much lower than that for husband/father of children.
6. Club pulls are about confidence/some guys don't have it in "real life"
Absolute malarkey. Fear is fear.
7. Club guys are no comp
Well if you have game, usually they aren't.
Doesn't matter if they're more attractive - game is about getting folks to react to you. You can blast through a set, get him to react to you, get her to react to you - and you've neutralized his pretty boy characteristics because you go straight for her EMOTIONAL jugular.
Day game rarely has male competition. So if you focus on that, you can neither attack nor defend, because you have no experience
8. Good for flirting
Ehh, cuts both ways
9. Music makes people more social
Showing the flaws in his game in that he doesn't use loud music to pull.
You pull in those environments by feeling the music, dancing well, looking inviting, and going for more non-verbal physical openers.
THAT IS WHY SHE'S THERE. She wants to get overwhelmed by the environment, get her mind out of thinking mode.
If you don't understand that, you can't pull at a loud club.
10. Work All Week..
In a decent size city, there's night life of all varieties on every day of the week. The real issue is finding the places you like to go, that also have women.
Chase sounds young and inexperienced, but Tuesday night @ 6:30 PM at a bar near the central business district where people go to unwind is a perfect place to meet, take for coffee, dinner, and then dessert at home. Put the chick in an uber @ 10:30 and still be ready for work @ 7 AM the next morning. Happy Hour game is how lots of relationships start.
If you work downtown and you're at the book store on your lunch break - how much time do you really have to
- find a chick
- run your game
- extend to an instadate/make major impact so that the phone # is solid
or
- bang her within a few hours of meeting her?
- how much time does she have to get attracted to you and start to trust you?
There are social/societal constraints to day game that most of the day game proponents don't ever talk about. Recent immigrants, students, and tourists can be talked to at 1 pm and fucked by 5 - But the rest of us have jobs.
__________________________________________________
I find that a lot of these gurus with e-books, courses, dvd sets, skype coaching, membership sites - they have a real constrained view of what the world is like.
Maybe it's because they all come from the same background and use the same language - but all roads seem to point to the same direction. Like there's an e-book on how to make seduction courses.
WIA
Quote: (10-04-2016 12:19 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:
. A guy just randomly talking to another stranger on the street or in the grocery store is considered pretty damn socially unacceptable; most men seem uncomfortable interacting with people outside their social circle, much less women.
The most common result of a daygame approach is simply the woman being puzzled as to why you're talking with her and not really knowing what to do. I sometimes do a little better trying to engage women in coffee shops, etc. and while I get the sense that they're friendly and might even meet up for a date if I hit them up on Tinder first, they're clearly pretty uncomfortable with the "unscripted" nature of the interaction that's going down.
Several women I've dated around here tell me the same thing: "It's weird when guys randomly talk to me" "it's creepy when some guy in a store tries to start talking to me" "I don't really know how to talk to people I'm not friends with" etc.
I think we have a similar problem in the UK. The approach anxiety is not fabricated here - there are genuine social conventions you are breaking by going and talking to people you 'have no business' talking to. Its almost rude to do it.
Chicks in both places have their lives nicely compartmentalized such that they don't need to make the effort when they're out on the high street or at work. The more European style of dressing and looking nice all the time isn't really as prevalent here. I hate this country.
The article does NOT talk about day game!
It talks about perceptions of night game!
Clearly, the author is not immersed in day game. If he was, he would discuss day game in more detail..
What are these "social/societal constraints" that you speak of?
Talk to one pretty girl on your way to work.
Talk to one pretty girl on your lunch break.
Talk to one pretty girl on your way home.
That is 3 approaches a day.
That is my advice to guys with busy jobs.
--
Day game is not about going out to meet girls.
Day game is talking to girls as you are going about your normal business.
On the subway, buying coffee, in line at the market, getting lunch, walking down the street, waiting to cross the street, entering and exiting buildings, at the mall, elevators, escalators -- We do all of these things throughout our normal day -- We will see pretty girls along the way -- Can we strike up an engaging conversation with them?
That is the essence of day game.
Simply striking up a conversation with a pretty girl in a normal, day time situation.
It talks about perceptions of night game!
Clearly, the author is not immersed in day game. If he was, he would discuss day game in more detail..
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
There are social/societal constraints to day game
What are these "social/societal constraints" that you speak of?
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
the rest of us have jobs
Talk to one pretty girl on your way to work.
Talk to one pretty girl on your lunch break.
Talk to one pretty girl on your way home.
That is 3 approaches a day.
That is my advice to guys with busy jobs.
--
Day game is not about going out to meet girls.
Day game is talking to girls as you are going about your normal business.
On the subway, buying coffee, in line at the market, getting lunch, walking down the street, waiting to cross the street, entering and exiting buildings, at the mall, elevators, escalators -- We do all of these things throughout our normal day -- We will see pretty girls along the way -- Can we strike up an engaging conversation with them?
That is the essence of day game.
Simply striking up a conversation with a pretty girl in a normal, day time situation.
Quote: (10-08-2016 10:11 AM)Giovonny Wrote:
The article does NOT talk about day game!
It talks about perceptions of night game!
Clearly, the author is not immersed in day game. If he was, he would discuss day game in more detail..
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
There are social/societal constraints to day game
What are these "social/societal constraints" that you speak of?
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
the rest of us have jobs
Talk to one pretty girl on your way to work.
Talk to one pretty girl on your lunch break.
Talk to one pretty girl on your way home.
That is 3 approaches a day.
That is my advice to guys with busy jobs.
--
Day game is not about going out to meet girls.
Day game is talking to girls as you are going about your normal business.
On the subway, buying coffee, in line at the market, getting lunch, walking down the street, waiting to cross the street, entering and exiting buildings, at the mall, elevators, escalators -- We do all of these things throughout our normal day -- We will see pretty girls along the way -- Can we strike up an engaging conversation with them?
That is the essence of day game.
Simply striking up a conversation with a pretty girl in a normal, day time situation.
I currently live on the East Coast. I see chicks on the subway, walking to work, during lunch, running errands during the work day.
Have I struck up conversations and gotten good #'s that resulted in dates and bangs? Sure.
But I've been in the game since the 99/00. The skills I learned on making good impressions, steering conversations, hitting attraction high points, etc were things I learned NIGHT game.
You know why I learned them in night game?
- lots of chicks
- lots of time to interact with any one particular chick.
These are things you don't have in day game, outside of very special circumstances. Night game is everywhere.
Let me go further.
I've worked and lived in the West, Midwest, and the South.
The typical routine weekday routine for most people is
- wake up
- get in car
- drive to work
- work
- maybe you have 30-60 minutes to eat lunch
- drive home.
They live in bubbles where for the most part, they only interact with people at work, with the occasional interaction with new people during lunch.
Exactly where are you running into attractive women on a regular basis during the daytime when you live and work in some office park in Atlanta?
How do you run into a new set of girls every day in Tucson?
It's one thing to suggest your course of action to newbies that live in Downtown Chicago, or college towns with lots of chicks who have nothing to do but go to school.
Everywhere else though?
There is no density.
And without lots of chicks you can't practice and learn.
When you do find the few chicks to talk to - now you've got a clock running. She's on her way someplace, and unless your game is phenomenal, getting an instadate (in order to cement the good vibes of the approach) is very difficult.
Night game? She's gonna go out, have a drink and then go to sleep if she doesn't meet any adventure.
Day time?
In the morning she's headed to work.
Lunch time or errands, she's headed back to work.
Now if you're a college kid newb, living in a college town, where everyone is basically on a college schedule, run day game all you want.
But if you're a working newb coming into the game - unless you live in Manhattan or a place with wall to wall girls that walk, take public transit, and are otherwise available - avoid day game - until you've gotten decent with night game.
Otherwise you're stuck basically trying to learn game at the mall or at the grocery store - when you can carve out the time.
WIA
Quote: (10-08-2016 02:31 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
There are social constraints to day game
Quote: (10-08-2016 10:11 AM)Giovonny Wrote:
What are these "social constraints" that you speak of?
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
work
Yes, work.
It does shape our individual mating strategies..
For some men, work limits their mating options..
For other men, work enhances their mating options..
Work can hurt or help your sex life, health, happiness, quality of life, etc.
Choose wisely.
--
If no one had to work, everyone would be free to fuck in the morning.
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
It's one thing to suggest your course of action to newbies that live in Downtown Chicago, or college towns
Yes,
My strategy is definitely geared towards guys that live in big cities and college towns.
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Exactly where are you running into attractive women on a regular basis during the daytime when you live and work in some office park in Atlanta?
Atlanta has beautiful women.
If I lived and worked in some "office park" in Atlanta..
I'm sure there are grocery stores, cafes, coffee shops, supermarkets, restaurants, gyms, buses, malls, bars, etc.
I would find a way to chat up a few pretty girls on public transportation, lunch break, coffee break, happy hour, social gatherings, etc.
One strategy that I have using here in San Francisco is immediately after work -- around 5 or 6pm -- I quickly change into nice jogging clothes and jog through all the evening commuters as they walk home/to the train/to the bus/to their apartment -- I always stop and talk to at least 1 or 2..
I jog for about 45 minutes and get in a few approaches..
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
How do you run into a new set of girls every day in Tucson?
At the University of Arizona + surrounding area.
Tucson is a great city with beautiful girls..
During the day, you will see pretty girls everywhere.
Not only college girls; Arizona has a great milf scene also.
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
avoid day game - until you've gotten decent with night game.
Avoid day game???
Avoid talking to pretty girls that you encounter during the day???
Surely, that is not what you meant to say.. ?
I think what you mean is to avoid wandering around aimlessly making fruitless approaches..
When I say "day game" I don't mean to run around inefficiently...
I mean to simply strike up conversations with girls that you are attracted to, while the sun is up, in a normal, natural setting and without going out of your way to do it.
"El Mechanicos Day Game Hack"
Quote: (10-04-2016 02:24 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
-When you do find the few chicks to talk to - now you've got a clock
running.
-She's on her way someplace, and unless your game is phenomenal, getting an instadate is very difficult.
-In the morning she's headed to work.
-Lunch time or errands, she's headed back to work.
I can tell that you have NOT been day gaming with conviction and passion.
How can I tell?
Because you are rationalizing why day game will NOT work..
When you day game with conviction and passion, you realize that often times, women enjoy being charmed by a handsome stranger..
They are flattered that a classy gentleman would have the desire to talk to them during the day..
It's right out of a movie..
IF, you are dressed sharp, look nice, have a pleasant demeanor and carry yourself gracefully..
It can and should feel perfectly natural to them to have a quick, flirtatious chat, exchange contact information and then begin the mating ritual..
If your game is strong enough, they will even go back to work a few minutes late.. Just because they enjoyed talking to you and you brought excitement to their day..
*****
In conclusion, I want to state that everyone has their own way of doing things and the only correct answer is doing whatever works best for YOU!
I am a health nut, I don't often drink, I go to bed early -- So, day game is the best fit for my life.
I also have jobs with flexible hours. I often work in the afternoons and early evening.
WIA probably enjoys night game and works during the day.. To each their own.
I recommend that all guys try a bit of both and see what feels best for them.
The Golden Rule is this; When you see a girl that you like, talk to her, that is usually the only way to get her! Day or Night!
--
WIA, thanks for the exchange. Respect.
I am on Gio's side 100%. I have instadated girl's especially after the school/work day around 5-6pm straight back to my apartment.
WIA is right on location though. Same can be said for any game or especially night game logistics in my opinion are crucial compared day game logisitics which you can completely control when it comes to a first date. Night game phone numbers flake at a 90%+ rate if I don't bang them that night for me personally in America these days.
I think someone can get many high quality bangs from day game with never having stepped foot in a night club or bar. In fact more of my most memorable bangs came from day game rather than night because it feels much more powerful to be able to bang a random girl you see in the day that isn't out looking to get hit on. Rather than a girl purposely in a bar or club who either just came off a break up or is just in a fun run of her own where she already banged 2 other new guys that month.
I also believe day game on average I have had a much better rate of 10 minute+ conversations whereas night game it feels like it fizzles out right away or she is thinking about going all the way to banging which in my case things escalate physically fast. I personally in nightgame rarely have extended conversations, at least where hot young girls go (where there is always loud music, dancing, and little room for conversation outside of stepping out to have a cigarette by which point she is usually hooked anyways if she agrees to that and it is just don't fuck it up).
Day game also has the benefit in my mind of having a greater benefit to social circle game where you can't be nearly as aggressive and have to connect without physical escalation & alcohol nearly as quick.
WIA is right on location though. Same can be said for any game or especially night game logistics in my opinion are crucial compared day game logisitics which you can completely control when it comes to a first date. Night game phone numbers flake at a 90%+ rate if I don't bang them that night for me personally in America these days.
I think someone can get many high quality bangs from day game with never having stepped foot in a night club or bar. In fact more of my most memorable bangs came from day game rather than night because it feels much more powerful to be able to bang a random girl you see in the day that isn't out looking to get hit on. Rather than a girl purposely in a bar or club who either just came off a break up or is just in a fun run of her own where she already banged 2 other new guys that month.
I also believe day game on average I have had a much better rate of 10 minute+ conversations whereas night game it feels like it fizzles out right away or she is thinking about going all the way to banging which in my case things escalate physically fast. I personally in nightgame rarely have extended conversations, at least where hot young girls go (where there is always loud music, dancing, and little room for conversation outside of stepping out to have a cigarette by which point she is usually hooked anyways if she agrees to that and it is just don't fuck it up).
Day game also has the benefit in my mind of having a greater benefit to social circle game where you can't be nearly as aggressive and have to connect without physical escalation & alcohol nearly as quick.
SENS Foundation - help stop age-related diseases
Quote: (05-19-2016 12:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:
If I talk to 100 19 year old girls, at least one of them is getting fucked!
Quote:WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Am I reacting to her? No pussy, all problems
Or
Is she reacting to me? All pussy, no problems
Night game= lots of ONS with 7's and 8's that are really 5's and 6's.
Day game= lots of STR's with lots of 7's and 8's sometimes even 9's.
Day game is superior to night game in every quantifiable category except maybe ONS with chicks you probably shouldn't have banged.
Day game= lots of STR's with lots of 7's and 8's sometimes even 9's.
Day game is superior to night game in every quantifiable category except maybe ONS with chicks you probably shouldn't have banged.
Newbies
So there you have it, two different views of the world. No need for me to refute the individual points. Just as certain as I am about my world view, the day game proponents are of theirs.
WIA
So there you have it, two different views of the world. No need for me to refute the individual points. Just as certain as I am about my world view, the day game proponents are of theirs.
WIA
Quote: (10-08-2016 02:31 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
But if you're a working newb coming into the game - unless you live in Manhattan or a place with wall to wall girls that walk, take public transit, and are otherwise available - avoid day game - until you've gotten decent with night game.
Otherwise you're stuck basically trying to learn game at the mall or at the grocery store - when you can carve out the time.
WIA
Dont really agree thats right for all men WIA. Nightgame just adds pressure to people not familiar to that environment. And personally, these guys stick out like a sore them in a nightly setting, not a good look. Maybe for some men, but in general, I think men need to learn to be friendly, cool and charming, to EVERYONE, not just girls. Once you can chat up the cute waitress, barista, girl standing with you in line, your doing pretty good.
@Vaun
There are a lot of unspoken premises here.
1) game is advanced socialization, not basic human socialization. When this topic started to be on the internet, most had basic socialization. Most were running day game. It was called fast seduction for a reason.
2) you need lots of feedback from women to learn, and even more to get good. Just going about daily life will make your socialization skills better, but talking to an on duty parking attendant is very different than talking to a 22 year old girl who's attention span has atrophied because of the modern culture. The differences are STARK to me. And the learning curve is steep compared to just basic socialization.
It's clear to me at least where a regular guy starts.
Gio and I disagreed on the big board about what average guy game is.
thread-57143.html
So the questions, as far as I see it really need to examine where you're coming from.
To me an average guy
- has kissed a girl, had a girlfriend, had sex.
- But he doesn't regularly get one night stands, much less dating super hot chicks
- has basic socialization down
- has an ordinary life that involves work and school, and the people he's around are also "in the matrix"
WIA
There are a lot of unspoken premises here.
1) game is advanced socialization, not basic human socialization. When this topic started to be on the internet, most had basic socialization. Most were running day game. It was called fast seduction for a reason.
2) you need lots of feedback from women to learn, and even more to get good. Just going about daily life will make your socialization skills better, but talking to an on duty parking attendant is very different than talking to a 22 year old girl who's attention span has atrophied because of the modern culture. The differences are STARK to me. And the learning curve is steep compared to just basic socialization.
It's clear to me at least where a regular guy starts.
Gio and I disagreed on the big board about what average guy game is.
thread-57143.html
So the questions, as far as I see it really need to examine where you're coming from.
To me an average guy
- has kissed a girl, had a girlfriend, had sex.
- But he doesn't regularly get one night stands, much less dating super hot chicks
- has basic socialization down
- has an ordinary life that involves work and school, and the people he's around are also "in the matrix"
WIA
Quote: (10-06-2016 09:00 PM)FeeltheBern Wrote:
Quote: (10-04-2016 12:19 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:
. A guy just randomly talking to another stranger on the street or in the grocery store is considered pretty damn socially unacceptable; most men seem uncomfortable interacting with people outside their social circle, much less women.
The most common result of a daygame approach is simply the woman being puzzled as to why you're talking with her and not really knowing what to do. I sometimes do a little better trying to engage women in coffee shops, etc. and while I get the sense that they're friendly and might even meet up for a date if I hit them up on Tinder first, they're clearly pretty uncomfortable with the "unscripted" nature of the interaction that's going down.
Several women I've dated around here tell me the same thing: "It's weird when guys randomly talk to me" "it's creepy when some guy in a store tries to start talking to me" "I don't really know how to talk to people I'm not friends with" etc.
I think we have a similar problem in the UK. The approach anxiety is not fabricated here - there are genuine social conventions you are breaking by going and talking to people you 'have no business' talking to. Its almost rude to do it.
Chicks in both places have their lives nicely compartmentalized such that they don't need to make the effort when they're out on the high street or at work. The more European style of dressing and looking nice all the time isn't really as prevalent here. I hate this country.
Especially outside of London, running daygame in the UK can be an unforgiving experience with local women. In fact, one of the things that I noticed when doing approaches during the day, e.g. in bookshops, was how women would automatically move away from a guy that had just happened to walk up to the same area they were standing in, whether it was me or any other guy for that they did not know. Since coming to Germany, I've never had that happen to me once, yet in the UK it was the norm for women to behave like that.
If you live in a environment that supports day game opportunities then go for it.
It's one thing to only see attractive girls in clubs and bars. However if you're surrounded by attractive girls
during the day, then you've got to try even if you get blown out.
I used to discount daygame...until I realized that there are places where
daygame opportunities are plentiful and persistent action is rewarded.
So if you're living in the desert, its time to get out and head for greener pastures...
It's one thing to only see attractive girls in clubs and bars. However if you're surrounded by attractive girls
during the day, then you've got to try even if you get blown out.
I used to discount daygame...until I realized that there are places where
daygame opportunities are plentiful and persistent action is rewarded.
So if you're living in the desert, its time to get out and head for greener pastures...
Quote: (10-09-2016 12:24 PM)Travesty Wrote:
I am on Gio's side 100%.
And I am on your side Trav!
You understand my strategy as well as anyone.
Let me say...
I don't want this to be "Gio vs WIA"..
It's juvenile and intellectually lazy to frame this as an argument..
This is simply a respectful discussion among men.
I like to ask hard questions to smart people.. I always learn.
I appreciate WIA shining light on the aspects that I ignore..
We work together, along with many others, to make the RVF a place where night gamers and day gamers alike can learn.
Both perspectives are needed.
--
Nowadays, the online/dating app perspective might be even more valuable than day or night game. (I need to get better in that area)
--
Quote: (10-09-2016 12:24 PM)Travesty Wrote:
I have instadated girl's especially after the school/work day around 5-6pm straight back to my apartment.
Yes!
There is a sweet spot right after work where girls are excited to be finished with work for the day, are embracing the fresh air and freedom of leaving work, crave a bit of excitement due to being stuck at a desk all day, and have not yet relaxed to the point where they just want to go home, shower, eat, and get in bed..
Indoors, with drinks, it's called "happy hour"..
Outside, on the street, I call it the "afternoon exodus".. It literally only lasts about 45 minutes to 1 hour... Once they get in their minds that they are going home to eat, they start to shut down socially and retreat into their own mind space..
Once that happens, it would take a really good looking guy or a guy with exceptional game to snap them back into an open, chatty mood.. (generally speaking)
Quote: (10-09-2016 12:24 PM)Travesty Wrote:
alcohol
You know my thinking..
If you can not display strong social skill and confidence when you are sober...
Then, you do not have strong social skill or confidence..
I do enjoy a drink sometimes. It's fun in moderation.
Quote: (10-09-2016 02:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
No need for me to refute the individual points.
It doesn't have to be about "refuting".
I would love for you to continue to add whatever interesting points that you feel.
I like when smart people disagree with me. I learn.
Quote: (10-09-2016 02:07 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Just as certain as I am about my world view, the day game proponents are of theirs.
Honestly, my opinions are not set in stone.. I am open to learning and evolving.. I may even do night game at some point in the future..
I don't think that I know whats best for everyone..
I just share my experience.
Quote: (10-09-2016 02:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:
Nightgame just adds pressure to people not familiar to that environment.
For some guys, it does just add to their pressure and anxiety, they don't feel comfortable..
Other guys, enjoy night life and are able to grow their skills at night.
Again, DO WHAT WORKS FOR YOU!
Quote: (10-09-2016 02:18 PM)Vaun Wrote:
I think men need to learn to be friendly, cool and charming, to EVERYONE, not just girls
Agreed!
"Game" shouldn't just be about getting sex.
It should be about getting EVERYTHING that we want out of life.. Career, job, wealth, friendships, social life, power, money, experience, peace of mind, etc.
Being able to gracefully and effectively talk to a wide range of people empowers us.
GAME IS ABOUT BECOMING A MORE POWERFUL AND EFFECTIVE PERSON overall, not just sexually..
--
Sex is easy / Game is Hard.
Quote: (10-09-2016 03:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
2) you need lots of feedback from women to learn, and even more to get good. Just going about daily life will make your socialization skills better, but talking to an on duty parking attendant is very different than talking to a 22 year old girl who's attention span has atrophied because of the modern culture. The differences are STARK to me. And the learning curve is steep compared to just basic socialization.
Just know from experience that its much easier to chat her up coming out of a department store, than in a bar with her friends on a Friday night surrounded by choades. I would guess that would be the same for anyone, at any stage of game.
Quote: (10-09-2016 01:00 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:
Night game= lots of ONS with 7's and 8's that are really 5's and 6's.
Day game= lots of STR's with lots of 7's and 8's sometimes even 9's.
Day game is superior to night game in every quantifiable category except maybe ONS with chicks you probably shouldn't have banged.
Daygame is simply superior, especially when it comes to getting the 9s and 10s.
I can't think of any situation where you would bang a girl during nightgame but won't bang the same girl during daygame. But the converse is certainly true.
Nightgame only has value for men with limited verbal proficiency but decent look and good energy.
Do not do nightgame unless you have to.
Quote: (10-09-2016 05:12 PM)Vaun Wrote:
Quote: (10-09-2016 03:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:
2) you need lots of feedback from women to learn, and even more to get good. Just going about daily life will make your socialization skills better, but talking to an on duty parking attendant is very different than talking to a 22 year old girl who's attention span has atrophied because of the modern culture. The differences are STARK to me. And the learning curve is steep compared to just basic socialization.
Just know from experience that its much easier to chat her up coming out of a department store, than in a bar with her friends on a Friday night surrounded by choades. I would guess that would be the same for anyone, at any stage of game.
I don't disagree that it's easier to talk to girls when she doesn't feel like there's anything at stake. A girl will have a jolly good conversation during the day time. She'll even flirt.
But a girl leaving the drug store @ 2 PM - is headed back to work.
The girl leaving the high end mall @ 6 Pm on a saturday probably bought something to wear for that night.
The structure of her life is already there. Her mind is in particular head space, and often times she has people waiting for her/depending on her to be at this next thing in her life.
Now the player has to bend that structure.
It's very possible. We see the veterans do this all the time.
But how hard is that for a guy just learning the game?
Because you can catch a chick unaware, get the chat going, make a good impression (either that you're a hot guy, or you're a good guy she can see herself with) - but to cement those feelings - you need to get her to do something with you right then and there.
Will she drop everything to hang with you? Sometimes yes, more times no.
If you get a phone #, what are the odds that when you text/call her, she's going to be in the same mental/emotional headspace that she was when she met you? Is it a priority to get back to a stranger that she had a 5 minute conversation with? How good are the new guys writing skills?
I can give you the practical lay out for a guy running game at night. The guy at night can learn to overcome his approach anxiety in short order. He can learn to open soft, open hard. He will hear all sorts of reactions, and then learn how to control his own reactions - quickly.
He gets lots of feedback. Ideally, he's not autistic, and he can read social cues, understand social norms, see the culture for what it is - and then he can adjust and refine - he can calibrate his overall approach.
Day game does not give the new guy that amount of feedback.
The new guy running day game will maybe talk to 3-4 groups of girls in a day. An these are going to be short interactions. The guy running night game will get that 20 interactions in 4 hours. And he can repeat that most nights of the week.
It doesn't matter if you see more 10's during the day than you do at night. (something I don't believe) If you're new, you can't handle a 7 without having lots of good reference experiences in your mind. Much less a socially savvy 10.
As for "relationship quality girls" are more prevalent during the day - which is the reverse of all chicks you meet at night are sluts - if you want a relationship with a girl - you have to fuck her first and quickly. Ideally what you want is the girl having to drag you into a relationship. Having her heavily invest in "taming you". Even if secretly you want to be tamed.
Although I think one of the big problems in all game advice is that game advice givers like myself - rarely talk about the internal emotions of the player - this is one of those areas where if you feel like "this is the one" - you essentially need to move down the buffet line and try some other dishes, and then come back to her.
If you meet her, have a few dates, feel each other out. She may very well fall in love with you, etc, but you're on the boyfriend track. She has the frame, and the chances are high that a newb, who has little experience with women at their "worst" during night game - will know what to do in that situation.
It's way easier to upgrade a ONS to a STR to an LTR or whatever. But Mr. newb Day Gamer who meets "The One" is in a poor position to shift gears on a chick - precisely because he's dealing with her day time persona.
There are so many layers to this, that I'm surprised (not really) that my points aren't more compelling.
On the big board, I think this would be a different discussion. I'm inclined to agree with El Mech and Gio on how to incorporate Game into your life, which includes the day. I go out of my way to do my errands just to chat up chicks, socialize with people. Most people I know, do not do the same. Most people are fairly "atomized" and really just want to interact with people they already know or people of known character.
But for new guys, none of the day game adherents have said that they can get the sort of volume and variety in day game outside of some very special circumstances that most guys are not in. Most guys don't live "downtown" and they don't live in college towns. They don't work next to the university. They don't have hours on end to take special trips during the work/school day. And it's not like you can just snap your fingers and change your life.
Going to known social gatherings, where people have the expectation of meeting each other is for the most part a slight change in a guy's routine. And day game as a complement to your active social life is a good move.
But day gaming on an active basis is actually a major alteration of most guy's life patterns, and basically at odds with the overall social groove.
When you look at the guys who have the biggest (purported) success -Janka/London Boys - they live in dense city centers and target chicks with nothing to do. Everyone who talks about day game in regular places, have lots of downtime in between girls.
Just on #'s, it doesn't work as a learning style, even if your style is "ping and bang" instead of a more "conversion" heavy style that I advocate.
So let me be clear - the best path to learning game - i.e. how to talk your way into "romance" - is night game.
If something replicates the density and social expectations of night game - (like a concert/music festival during the day, beach, packed public park, etc) - then that's a good way to learn. Those opportunities are typically few and far between. Either they don't occur enough on a regular repeatable basis in a particular city, or they happen all the time in cities that guys are not in.
Day game for most guys is not wall to wall chicks looking to have a good time. It's sporadic cute chicks going about their day. If you're running them down on the streets, or you're playing crocodile by the shore @ Starbucks and macking on chicks with Mac Books, - #'s and experience wise you're better off learning game by going out at night.
WIA
^ Thing I really refute is for guys that aren't solid looking naturally that they would have to get into the 90+ percentile in Game abilities to get the same looks level girls they could get during the day with maybe a 60+ percentile skill level.
Girls alone in the day don't have friends and others watching them with the girl thinking is this guy good looking enough to be seen with? They can be more open because everyone bypassing could see it just as a friendly conversation (which most strangers would). Nightgame if a guy approaches an attractive girl the girl most often times feels eyes on her.
Day game has a higher level of anonymity than night game in the vast majority of cases because the girl is already isolated which is such a huge advantage for a less than great looking guy I cannot even begin to describe it. Especially in this age of mixed groups going out or four girlfriends going out to dance in a circle and take selfies.
In the majority of night game situations where I have been in where there are lots of young hot girls (not quiet lounges or upscale hotel lobby bars) are loud and fast paced where a silver mouthpiece of an average looking average height guy won't cut it many times because he won't have an opportunity to use it. The guy in question would have to be a high level Gamesman with a huge party personality to overcome this (someone like slubu comes to mind who described himself as an average looking guy that got suited up, smoked a pack a night, drank a ton, and was a complete party animal, stayed out til 5AM at after parties constantly taking shots - also owned his own law practice which is a huge DHV).
Most average looking guys don't have small prayer from Baby Jesus at becoming slubu.
Yes Neil Strauss had success he also went out all the time and made it his life practically. He made it into the 90+ percentile.
I can see that being a battled hardened veteran of night game for this man in question would reap him the biggest rewards overall. I'd only recommend this path to very few certain personality types over day game.
Girls alone in the day don't have friends and others watching them with the girl thinking is this guy good looking enough to be seen with? They can be more open because everyone bypassing could see it just as a friendly conversation (which most strangers would). Nightgame if a guy approaches an attractive girl the girl most often times feels eyes on her.
Day game has a higher level of anonymity than night game in the vast majority of cases because the girl is already isolated which is such a huge advantage for a less than great looking guy I cannot even begin to describe it. Especially in this age of mixed groups going out or four girlfriends going out to dance in a circle and take selfies.
In the majority of night game situations where I have been in where there are lots of young hot girls (not quiet lounges or upscale hotel lobby bars) are loud and fast paced where a silver mouthpiece of an average looking average height guy won't cut it many times because he won't have an opportunity to use it. The guy in question would have to be a high level Gamesman with a huge party personality to overcome this (someone like slubu comes to mind who described himself as an average looking guy that got suited up, smoked a pack a night, drank a ton, and was a complete party animal, stayed out til 5AM at after parties constantly taking shots - also owned his own law practice which is a huge DHV).
Most average looking guys don't have small prayer from Baby Jesus at becoming slubu.
Yes Neil Strauss had success he also went out all the time and made it his life practically. He made it into the 90+ percentile.
I can see that being a battled hardened veteran of night game for this man in question would reap him the biggest rewards overall. I'd only recommend this path to very few certain personality types over day game.
SENS Foundation - help stop age-related diseases
Quote: (05-19-2016 12:01 PM)Giovonny Wrote:
If I talk to 100 19 year old girls, at least one of them is getting fucked!
Quote:WestIndianArchie Wrote:
Am I reacting to her? No pussy, all problems
Or
Is she reacting to me? All pussy, no problems
Day game and Night game require different skillsets...In Day Game there's much more hustle needed
whereas night game you typically have time to think about what you want to say and then approach.
Day game you're practically running after the girl and starting a spontaneous conversation.
Just like Giovonny mentioned above it's still a numbers game though, no matter how good you are,
so the only thing that really will determine your success is your ability to keep going and approach
as many girls as you can day or night.
It's interesting...Neil Strauss is retired from the game...he got married a couple of years ago...
whereas night game you typically have time to think about what you want to say and then approach.
Day game you're practically running after the girl and starting a spontaneous conversation.
Just like Giovonny mentioned above it's still a numbers game though, no matter how good you are,
so the only thing that really will determine your success is your ability to keep going and approach
as many girls as you can day or night.
It's interesting...Neil Strauss is retired from the game...he got married a couple of years ago...
Quote: (10-09-2016 11:01 PM)Apollo21 Wrote:
Day game and Night game require different skillsets...In Day Game there's much more hustle needed
whereas night game you typically have time to think about what you want to say and then approach.
Day game you're practically running after the girl and starting a spontaneous conversation.
Just like Giovonny mentioned above it's still a numbers game though, no matter how good you are,
so the only thing that really will determine your success is your ability to keep going and approach
as many girls as you can day or night.
It's interesting...Neil Strauss is retired from the game...he got married a couple of years ago...
You're not going to pull every girl you talk to.
Game isn't "any girl, any time." But that is the platonic ideal.
Game is not a numbers game like a lottery or a raffle.
It's more like going from the Roulette Table to the Black Jack Table to Poker. In Poker, you can play the cards your dealt (SMV) or you can play the player. (Game)
Of course there's an element of randomness - like you look just like her ex - and she hates her ex...or she still loves her ex - but the sequence of attention, open, attraction material, get buy in, make her invest, and escalate - is more like a sales funnel at a car dealership than a billboard or a TV ad.
Calling it a #'s game does things to guys mind. They think that if I talk to X # of girls, that will turn into a bang. I was just chatting with Moma and Rudebwoy about this.
"If I talk to 20 girls tonight, i'm bound to get laid."
That's the wrong way to think about it.
People's behavior when exposed to X stimuli is predictable.
Empires rise and fall, fortunes are made and lost on the predictability of human behavior.
Pumpkin Spice Latte and Apple Cider go on sale every year around this time. It's not luck.
When store owners put candy at the eye level of children - that's not luck that Junior wants some Starbursts. The fact that the breath mints are at Adult eye level is not luck either. The magazine rack full of women's rags is not random.
Girls start looking for boyfriends when it's cold, and start wearing less clothes when it's warm. Not chance. Not luck. Happens every year like clockwork.
A girl reacts to your muscular arms is not chance, not luck. You knew that would happen when you hit the gym 6 months prior. You knew that girls react a particular way when you show them muscle. All girls, no. Many girls, yes.
You talk to 10 girls about relationships, and 5 of them really get into the conversation - that's not luck. That's not chance. It's not a #'s game. You know that's an area of her interest, and she's going to get passionate about it.
It's taking advantage of predictable human behavior. Like selling ice cold water bottles during the summer.
So that's why player doesn't say "Hi. My name is" - he knows that approach turns women off from the start. It's not his bad luck that the chick was unfriendly, it's predictable.
Players know this shit. We talk about it. We trade stories. We analyze. We come up with new shit and go try it out. We see the patterns in human life. It only seems like a numbers game to people who don't see the patterns.
Pulling women is not a numbers game, period.
Learn their behavior, used tried and true underlying stories/jokes/observations, and suddenly your "luck" changes, even though your face, body fat percentage, and finances did not.
Game can get you results in a weekend. And it's not because you happened to meet a bunch of raging sluts.
This post ain't directed @ you Apollo, but I write this for the newbs.
This game shit is dope and it's powerful. But you have to understand what it is you're trying to do, see it happen in other avenues of life, and then try it in this space of human activity.
WIA
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