[WestIndianArchie]

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

[Zanardi]

I agree here. I think that if he were to insert some flirting and sexual communication, he'll notice that this was the missing piece he was looking for.

[WestIndianArchie]

Something is better than nothing, but the main missing element is buy in. Shifting to commonalities immediately after laughter is being tone deaf and not calibrated.

WIA

[WalkingMan]

What number(s) and/or subtopics would you add in between this list, WIA?

[WalkingMan]

For me, physical touch is non-negotiable. I go for a handshake at the very least. Ideally here:

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
a. Handshake
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

[WestIndianArchie]

@Walking Man

1) Switch to joke to evoke emotions, emphasis on plural

2.5) Don't get to know her until she wants to get to know you

2.6) Get her logistics. Can you make something happen?

3.9) Number is a last resort, go for the kill. If she's really on the hook, instadate and then extend.

The real coin flip is deciding on how much buy in you really need. That's where experience comes in, and the willingness to lose the girl.

WIA

[WalkingMan]

Can you elaborate on "buy-in"?

[WestIndianArchie]

Buy in -

When a girl WANTS to talk to you.

Is she just being polite because of social custom?

Is she tolerating you?
Making conversation to pass time?
Angling for a drink?
Is she just using you for entertainment?

= no buy in

Buy in - she's laughing, then adding, then interjecting, breaking the touch barrier, laughing too hard, losing composure.

You've hit buy in when she is actively asking you about you, and she's jumping through your hoops.

Then and only then do you let her win you over, do you show some affection, do you start to build commonalities. You're rewarding her compliance with rapport.

Most guys seek rapport before a chick is digging them.

Sometimes they get it back, but it's the girl selecting him. That might not mean much to a guy that's only about the notch - But the player wants to actually be the buyer.

WIA

[WalkingMan]

Appreciate the explanation, thanks. Brainstorming ways about how I can apply this to my daily interactions.

[Dalaran1991]

(07-20-2016 07:58 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Buy in -

When a girl WANTS to talk to you.

Is she just being polite because of social custom?

Is she tolerating you?
Making conversation to pass time?
Angling for a drink?
Is she just using you for entertainment?

= no buy in

Buy in - she's laughing, then adding, then interjecting, breaking the touch barrier, laughing too hard, losing composure.

You've hit buy in when she is actively asking you about you, and she's jumping through your hoops.

Then and only then do you let her win you over, do you show some affection, do you start to build commonalities. You're rewarding her compliance with rapport.

Most guys seek rapport before a chick is digging them.

Sometimes they get it back, but it's the girl selecting him. That might not mean much to a guy that's only about the notch - But the player wants to actually be the buyer.

WIA

Came in to dissect default game, came out with this gem.
If WIA could only shake his habits of starting meh topics only to drop some gold later

Anyway WIA, basically buy in = the attraction phase for Mystery Method. But then, why would deciding how much buy in you need is important? Shouldn't more buy in = more leverage + value?

Is it because we risk overgame or wasting too much time?
And why willingess to lose the girl in the "buy-in" phase? I thought that is for the "cashing out" phase, when you decide to go for the kill and risk shocking the girl?

[ladderff]

(07-20-2016 06:23 AM)Zanardi Wrote:  

I agree here. I think that if he were to insert some flirting and sexual communication, he'll notice that this was the missing piece he was looking for.

Good stuff. Got to be careful with the sexual communication here. I've had a couple newbie friends tell me how they slyly introduced sexual subjects into the conversation via jokes and/or puns, but somehow still didn't pull. My advice: if you can picture your innuendo coming with a wink or an elbow-nudge, it's pussy-drying stuff. When it's time to put her mind on sex, better to adopt the sex-is-no-big-deal-(to-me) frame than to chimp for laughs or cheap bawdiness. Try not to smile too much when you broach a sexual subject, or work on your patient, knowing grin-while-nodding. I think there was a passage in <cite>Mystery Method</cite> (which, whatever you now think of the author, I still consider a great resource especially for non-naturals) about this type of attitude: that sex is a perfectly normal activity you are inherently comfortable with, so no nervous laughing or lame anatomical puns or whatever.

[WestIndianArchie]

(07-20-2016 08:27 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Came in to dissect default game, came out with this gem.
If WIA could only shake his habits of starting meh topics only to drop some gold later

I was actually going someplace else with this. But Walking Man had good questions.

(07-20-2016 08:27 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Anyway WIA, basically buy in = the attraction phase for Mystery Method.

Probably the hook point of A2/A3.

(07-20-2016 08:27 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

But then, why would deciding how much buy in you need is important? Shouldn't more buy in = more leverage + value?

Is it because we risk overgame or wasting too much time?

Lots of things can happen.

1) on the player's end - Fucking with a girl on this level is FUN, so the player can stall because he's enjoying himself. She'll burn out. Either you're a clown, or you're too self amused.

2) on the girl's end - Different girls have different levels of what they need to "get them out of character".

Very social girls have good poker faces. A "real alpha" that's used to dealing with really hot bitches just assumes they're in to him. So he basically takes what he wants.

And if you bang college aged chicks, she might not know what to do.

Naturals catch the tells, but it takes time to learn them.

There's more to it, I probably need to think longer about it to suss out all the details

(07-20-2016 08:27 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

And why willingess to lose the girl in the "buy-in" phase? I thought that is for the "cashing out" phase, when you decide to go for the kill and risk shocking the girl?

Willingness to lose the chick is good throughout every stage of game, with maybe some limited exceptions.

On the opener - going direct and with sexuality involved can offend and screen. It polarizes.

During the buy in, drives the feeling of loss aversion on her part. A chick might not totally buy in when she gets the joy of you, but will flip when she realizes she can lose you.

During the sex stage, a chick might subconsciously test you by pulling away or being wishwashy. Being willing to lose her is the basis of lmr busting.

All of this of difficult to do, because your mind is telling you to do the exact opposite. It's hard to ignore.

WIA

[C-Note]

(07-20-2016 06:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

Before I was game aware, this is basically how I did it, but sometimes would switch it up by asking if I could buy her a drink, or asking her to dance. I knew some game principles through experience, like trying to tease her or get her emotionally involved by asking about her background and relationships. It did work to some extent.

[WestIndianArchie]

@C-Note

Mos def, it was my m.o. if you could call that "game".

Guys get laid like this all the time. It's what women expect.

Basic tweaks can turn a chump into a champ.

WIA

[debeguiled]

I don't know why we keep letting that Patrice thread die. WIA is talking about taking the "L." Not to mention giving her the opportunity to think differently.

[Travesty]

(07-20-2016 06:15 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

1. Approach as confidently as possible
2. Make her laugh
3. Switch conversation to commonalities
4. Ask for her number.

Agree?

WIA

What do you say to the fact that I have gotten plenty of numbers of girls where I think the approach went bad, she didn't show much interest of "buying in" then I got the bang anyways.

Then there are others where I have full buy in based on your check list and get boyfriend excuse which I try overcome with humor or ignore it, get no response on the other end, or get a boyfriend excuse over text.

I actually think when girls show they have fully bought in I have less success.

When they sit there and think about it for a second before giving the number and seem shy or anxious I think I have found more success in actually getting a bang.

I think this is doubly true for girls that are 18-21.

I am not sure I buy what you are saying. Unless you are talking about targeting 25-30 year olds in a major metropolis which I think you are. They are more sure of themselves. Have fucked enough guys. They aren't afraid to give a green light if they are feeling it. Good chance they have been hit on buy a guy that is better looking or has better game at some point in their life. They know their way around the block. They also are quick to give a red light like you say.

This is also why I tend to like younger girls. I don't like the feeling being in front of 25+ year olds and being guy #345 (which I am) giving them a pitch which they are very experienced at receiving. They are like an experienced venture capitalist that knows what they want when they see it.

Completely different ball game.

This is day game I am talking about.

[456]

Some little tricks that help me make sure I'm getting buy-in:

- I don't attempt any exchange of names until she does (if possible, considering the venue/function)

- I don't think about getting her number or "liking her" until she's already hooked a bit and/or she has a "please ask me for my number" face on. (some of the time, she will be the first to suggest taking her number.)

Also, these help, but may be scenario-specific:

- politely ejecting from the interaction to take care of something else / talk to others -- then coming back to her a little later, taking note of how happy she is to see you again

- getting the insta-date or agreement to do X later this week before exchanging contact (this has been said many times)

It comes back to that "hmm, should I be interested in you?" mantra. In my post-several-bangs debriefings, I'm often told "I wasn't sure if you liked me at first!!"

These aren't advanced, but over time has helped me make sure I'm getting emotional buy-in and setting myself apart from the average guy.

Key is still to truly assume she is intrigued and attracted. That's the biggest difference to get above average: entitlement.

[Kid Twist]

Do you not make moves when on a first date though to keep it "mysterious"?

I'm wondering, because you can make two arguments:

a) Make sure she knows you are a sexual being and that you are interested
b) act like you don't care so she is wondering whether you are attracted at all

The first runs the risk of coming off as too invested too early,

The second runs the risk of friend zone ...

thoughts?

[456]

First date --- she already knows I'm interested. I always make a move -- even if it's just a short kiss. I imagine the thread's comments thus far are more about the first meet, provided it's a real-life pickup.

Online, where first date is first meet, I'd still make a move unless it's some kind of 20 minute coffee then bounce introduction -- (I've never had one of those).

[WestIndianArchie]

Good stuff 456. I do much the same.

WIA

[XPQ22]

The #1 mistake I probably see at night around here is guys pushing forward on girls who simply aren't interested in buying in.

They're not reading the body language of a girl who is just interested in passing the time, or being entertained. They probably think they're building interest or attraction, but she has closed body language, standing four or five feet away, not adding much to the conversation or asking any personal questions, checking her phone occasionally.

There's nothing intrinsically wrong with talking to a woman simply to pass the time yourself, but if she's showing the "not really buying" body language, don't have any misapprehensions about where things are heading. If nobody talked with girls who weren't buying at an average bar or club they'd never go, because 90% of the time there'd be nothing to do.

One way to gain a bit more insight into her mindset is to start the interaction well outside her "personal space"; five or six feet even (in the US...Americans seem to have big "personal space" requirements.) Then don't move. If a girl is feeling you, she will often "close the gap" on her own initiative.

(07-20-2016 10:48 AM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Do you not make moves when on a first date though to keep it "mysterious"?

If you've set up your date appropriately, in about 30 minutes you should have all the intel and be positioned appropriately to move forward should you be getting those signals. I've found that reading a girl is much much easier if they've already pre-screened me that way; sometimes it takes far less than a half hour.

For online girls, the dates with the ones who were down were just not rocket science at all. If it feels like it's rocket science, then just from that I know I may be wasting my time.

[WestIndianArchie]

@travesty

1. Bad pull turns into bang

At a base level, the man to woman communication happened. So even if the top level was shaky, the real conversation went well.

2. Trusted the top level, but no bang
- she's no longer in the same emotional place as the pull.
- she has to decide, and most people prefer inaction

The player hack has been the instadate.
Then there is the time bridge.

Then there's over the top plan making, and the reverse is bringing down the energy to where she might feel normal and still in to you- which is where she will be when you hit her up tomorrow.

The overall problem is that her attraction for you is in the moment. (And transitory attraction is part of her design *insert long tangent about LTR game*)

Knowing that you can't be pressed to bang. It's a slow build to the bang if possible.

WIA

[WestIndianArchie]

(07-20-2016 10:32 AM)debeguiled Wrote:  

I don't know why we keep letting that Patrice thread die. WIA is talking about taking the "L." Not to mention giving her the opportunity to think differently.

Patrice O'Neal comes to mind often.

Being willing ready and able to walk can turn a bad session good.

WIA

[XXL]

What I see...

1. Seeks for or force an overt eye contact or some sort of crystal clear approach invitation
2. Goes up with confidence generated by girl's signal
3. Talks about get to know each other stuff mixed with some timid flirtations here and there
4. Switches to comfort talk and tries hard to seek any commonalities
5. Waits for perfect moment, asks for number, leaves right away with trophy number
6. Games her over the phone crafting perfect texts all day all night

[XPQ22]

(07-20-2016 02:41 PM)XXL Wrote:  

What I see...

1. Seeks for or force an overt eye contact or some sort of crystal clear approach invitation
2. Goes up with confidence generated by girl's signal
3. Talks about get to know each other stuff mixed with some timid flirtations here and there
4. Switches to comfort talk and tries hard to seek any commonalities
5. Waits for perfect moment, asks for number, leaves right away with trophy number
6. Games her over the phone crafting perfect texts all day all night

I have been guilty of this.

But there is usually no "step 6", as she'll either reply "what are you asking for? I have a boyfriend" after your third text, or respond with polite "heh you're funny" responses 7 hours after you text her for a few days, until she ghosts.