Quote: (08-09-2011 01:36 PM)Dash Global Wrote:
I am stating that genocide is grounds for WAR and/or RETRIBUTION. Period.
And I am stating that the United States government does not agree with you and never has. Thus, when citing your particular views on this matter it would be wise of you not to link them to US government actions (i.e. The Iraq War, "Saddam was a terrible dictator", etc) or try to use them to justify said actions.
They should be kept entirely separate.
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Anyone that tries to argue this is disillusionment and needs psychiatric help.
1. I think you meant to use the term "delusional".
2. Realism is not a psychosis.
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Here again as I stated numerous times in this post, im not referring to the US foreign policy. So this and half of your post is irrelevant to what I said.
In this thread, you and others have been discussing the Iraq War, its justification ("Saddam was a brutal dictator") and its effects(i.e. were the military casualties worth it, "died for nothing", etc). We are also discussing the merits of an ethical foreign policy in this context.
Such a discussion is inexorably linked to the topic of US Foreign Policy (which is the dominant influence worldwide), and stems directly from it. It is entirely relevant.
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I never brought up what the US policy is. Wasnt referring to any one country. So 90% of your post is irrelevant to my statements....
The core of this topic relates to a discussion about the Iraq War and the US military (several of its veterans being participants in this thread) and is therefore inexorably linked to the realm of US Foreign policy. Your musings about the merits of an ethical foreign policy stem directly from a discussion about the Iraq War and the US military, in which the OP serves.
There is no relative discord here, especially when you also consider the fact that the United States is the world's dominant economic, military and political power, with there being no close second at the moment (not even China). Since America largely dictates the course of world geo-politics, any discussion of a global, international ethical foreign policy (which you have suggested with your statements about a "bi-national committee", and the like) would largely be dominated by American foreign policy and its influences.
In other words, when you mention an "international effort" and claim
not to specifically be talking about the United States, but "people", you are in fact talking about the United States. This is a unipolar world, and America is at its geo-political center. There is no separating the United States from a topic like this-the world goes as the USA goes.
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The facts are still the facts.
I'd actually contend that the next point you are about to list is really more likely an example of opinion rather than fact.
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1) Ethnic Genocide is grounds for war simply on justice and principle alone.
"Justice and principle" do not guide geo-political conduct. All of the evidence points to the contrary.
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2) Sadam was a tyrant and committed crimes against his people and other countries and was brought to justice.
This is actually a fact, but it is geo-politically irrelevant.
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3) You and the OP tried to pass off your opinions as facts. OP said the troops died for nothing. You tried to claim Sadams actions did not constitute war.
I
did not claim that Saddam's actions
did not constitute war. I
questioned the use of Saddam Hussein's actions as justification for war. Given the factual backing I have provided, this is not an opinion-the US does not follow an ethical foreign policy, and thus Saddam's actions should not necessarily be considered justification for war in and of themselves.
There is a very big difference between what I actually said and how you have re-written it.
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There needs to be an International Committee for the sole purpose of ensuring peace, justice, and freedom for everyone regardless of country, race, or social-economic background.
Such a committee would be useless. Moral concerns have no force in the realm of geo-politics, and any committee/organization dedicated to enforcing them will have no real influence. It will be a "feel good force" with little practical effectiveness, much like the current UN.
Even in the event of the rise of such a committee, you could expect American foreign policy (the most dominant global influence worldwide) to be the guiding light and, as we've discussed, American foreign policy (like those of nearly all other sovereign states) is amoral.
One more thing:
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Your wrong about the Middle East. It can be changed but ALOT and I mean ALOT of resources and time is needed to make that happen.
With the level of corruption and religious & ethnic agendas in the Middle East, makes it a daunting task that requires a highly thought out plan and time to undertake.
1. This is a very arrogant argument to make. You just finished suggesting the creation of a very tolerant international committee, one that promotes "freedom" regardless of where or who you are.
By that same token, people do have a right to live as they please and as their own cultures dictate without your forcing change with your "highly thought out" agenda designed to get them all to look like you. Your plan is inherently intolerant.
2. I see no evidence that other parts of the world can be turned into the West. Even today, many former colonies of European empires remain fundamentally different in a socio-cultural sense from their former overlords, and that is in spite of a very concerted economic and missionary effort to force change (an effort quite similar to the one you are proposing, one that involved highly thought out plans and the confrontation of native agendas).
3. I doubt that the West has the resources and/or strength needed to embark upon such a world-changing effort, and the motivation within the west for the maintenance of such an effort appears to be waning as well.
Your theories do not appear feasible.