[hunger]

Hi all,

I’ve never posted here, but I’ve been following this community closely. I’m really looking forward to hearing your opinions.

I can’t share this stuff with people in my real life, they just don’t understand.

I’ll try to keep it brief, but I need to add a minimum amount of detail for you to be able to assess the situation. It's about a 5 minute read.

This post is broken down into:

• Info about me
• Info about her (Pros & Cons)
• The real questions I think need to be answered
  

I’d like to get feedback from men who have been in the game for a while and have real confidence. People like Dagonet, Travesty, speakeasy, philosophical_recovery, jariel, etc.

This isn’t another slut-tirade -- I’m trying to figure out what’s making me keep choosing this particular type of woman, despite knowing that it’s a bad decision and despite having better options available.

About me:

I’ve got some self-esteem issues stemming from my mother being a monstrous, ice-hearted woman.

But, objectively speaking, I’m pretty cool: 6’2, 215lbs, 11%bf, 32 years old, deep voice, make a lot of money. I'm European and moved to the USA 4 years ago. No matter where I go, I almost never encounter someone who is taller, funnier, more muscular and intelligent than I am. I have good posture, dress nice, and women check me out wherever I go.

I’ve always had a natural laid-backness, and I’ve slept with a lot of women: I can’t tell for sure how many, but I’ve been mostly single for the last 10 years, and sleep with 7-15 women per year, not including the occasional escorts.

About her: The good
Imagine this: a girl who is a strong 8, maybe a weak 9, putting in thoughtful effort the way you usually only see it from a 6 who knows she is dating way out of her league.

She also has amazing genetics: not a single wrinkle in her face, her arms are firm, her butt is so firm that my hand bounces back whenever I slap it. She’s very intelligent and capable of logical thought and emotional regulation. When she's around me, she's like a teenage girl — complete age regression. Great sense of humor, we laugh together a lot. Socially graceful. Her mom looks good and is feminine.

Some more positive traits:

• Calm, strong, curious nature
• Very affectionate
• She understands me like no one has in a long time
• The sex is like a combination of all the best sex I’ve ever had. Ridiculous chemistry
• I feel a really strong bond with her. It feels wrong to walk away from it and I'm usually very good at walking away
• There’s something oddly pure about how into me she is, that I haven’t encountered before in a girl that promiscuous. The look of vulnerable affection in her eyes is real; I’ve seen it in a lot of women I’ve had in the past
• She seems to really be putting an effort into getting her life in order, across the board.
• Has demonstrable ability to make adjustments to her behavior based on feedback
• Very receptive of everything I teach her
• Didn’t have sex until she was in college
• She seems like she's genuinely appreciative of being my woman
• The guys out here are pretty lame, so there’s a good chance I’m one of the top 3 coolest guys she’s been with (She says I’m the best but I don’t believe her)
  

And the bad about her:

• She’s fucked “more than 20, less than 30” guys, according to her
• 32 years old
• American (I'm european)
• Huge lower back tattoo
• Parents divorced when she was 15, abusive dad
• A long string of relationships that fizzled out after a few months.
• Her longest relationship was 3 years and ended in divorce
• She’s done lots of online dating and sought out guys specifically for sex
• Solo trips to fuckfest locations
• Over the top stuff in bed after a few dates
• Drinks a lot of alcohol, got a DUI
• Has taken a lot of drugs: Molly, acid, coke, shrooms, and that’s just what I know about
• Studied psychology
• Lived in LA during college years, did “modeling” there (aka might have had sex for money)
• Gave me unsolicited, detailed information about guys she had fucked
• Broached the topic of sex first, and often
• She thinks that the way she’s behaved is ok, she literally said that I’m getting worked up over nothing
• When I’m around her I’m happy, but when I’m away from her, I think a lot about how at least 20 guys have cum on the girl I like, and it saps a bit of my vigor and creativity. I’m not working out as hard at the gym. The quality & amount of output at work has slightly decreased.
  

I'm not naive about this. When I think about marriage and children, I have doubts that she will be a loyal wife who transmits the right values to our children. I have doubts about her capacity to love me fully. I don’t feel special. I’m familiar with the research on sluts’ inability to pair bond, and DNA from former men still being in their bodies even years after the fact. Part of me thinks that marrying someone like her is rewarding bad behavior. I suspect I'm dating a cum dumpster that just happens to still look very good, and who knows this is one of her last chances to find an alpha-provider.

However, if she can keep behaving as well as she does, and we maintain the connection that we have, it will be very hard for me to leave her. The emotional distance and slight distrust I have because of her relationship track record, will keep me a challenge to her, and keep the balance of power shifted towards me. I could probably get her to sign a prenup that’s clearly in my favor. Ironically, my dampened interest in her could make this a really healthy, great relationship that will be the envy of others.

But the real questions to me are:

• There were so many early slut-tells and so many moments where I could have shut this down and walked away. Why did I choose her anyway?
• Why do I, despite knowing what I know, still feel such a bond to her? It’s usually so easy for me to walk away from women.
• Why do I, despite having access to many women, keep choosing this particular type of woman? The one who I like, but hate her sexual history.
• What does it say about my social value and self-worth if I keep choosing these types women?
  

I'm trying to use this relationship to learn more about myself...but man it's hard.

[etwsake]

Anyone else immediately think of the White Stripes song when they read this thread title?

To answer your questions....you fell into the trap. You got one-itis. She's a slut. She's not special.

If you think you "looooooveee" her and she's so great and you wanna marry her...well hey man, roll the dice. But you already know how it'll turn out.

[General Stalin]

To answer all 4 of your questions at once:

Because she's hot. Rose colored glasses.

Your dick seems to have more control over your actions than you do in this situation. Learn to control and separate your boner from your feelings. It's easy to overlook/ignore red flags when the positives are so great. Many great men have had their lives ruined by good looking women who know how to say the right things and push the right buttons.

You need to learn how to have sex with women that are attractive to you without getting emotionally attached (assuming this is what you'd like to do). If you are hunting for a wife, then focus on looking for characteristics that would make a good longer term partner and a mother. As much as you may not want to hear it, it may be near impossible for you to find such a girl that is also a "9/10"

[gameking7]

Sluts are for fun. Maybe you crave the adventure and excitement idk.

She will not turn out good for you and only pull you down, fuck with your head more.

I don't understand how you can pull tons of girls you don't go for good girl types that with be completely loyal. She aint gonna be. She will slip up drunk etc. one night

You need to drop her. Get into a healthy relationship with someone who has less baggage.

Are you trying to be her white knight and save/fix/change her?

[rudebwoy]

The headline says it all ......................run and don't look back.

I did not read that post...

[Alpha_Romeo]

Don't wife up dumb sluts. That's really all you need to know.

[Rhyme or Reason]

The questions you posited should be directed inward, not at us. We don't know you from Adam, and this situation is no different than the many others brought by newbs.

[Chemistry]

(09-21-2016 01:02 PM)hunger Wrote:  

• There were so many early slut-tells and so many moments where I could have shut this down and walked away. Why did I choose her anyway?
• Why do I, despite knowing what I know, still feel such a bond to her? It’s usually so easy for me to walk away from women.
• Why do I, despite having access to many women, keep choosing this particular type of woman? The one who I like, but hate her sexual history.
• What does it say about my social value and self-worth if I keep choosing these types women?
  

^ These are lofty questions from a man who knows it's his emotions, not his brain, that led him to where he is.

I don't think it says as much about your social value and self-worth as it does about your tendency to fall into pair bonds easily. I do it too, and we might be a minority on this forum. We have to guard against our tendency to love women despite their faults, and train ourselves to fall in love with the good ones and let the women-as-projects fall away.

[Chemistry]

Also: In my opinion, of all the "bad" you listed, this one is the worst:

Parents divorced when she was 15, abusive dad

It's not her fault, and it sucks for her, but there's no way she'll ever make a good wife. She simply doesn't have the proper mental template for marriage in her brain.

[dopvlur]

Imagine the worst case scenario, thats what always happen with this kind of girls. Fell in a trap years ago and the best thing happened in my life was divorce and be free again. Many red flags, be rational no emotional, and if you have self control enjoy her, but don't take the next step in the relationship.

[Travesty]

How did you meet her?

Take the easy way to get a girl you'll get an easy girl.

My mom is an alcoholic which has always made her distant though she is nice. I think like girls have daddy issues, us guys with absent or cold mothers have mom issues and is why we bang so many girls and look for validation of someone who is hot and "really knows us".

The problem is this girl which I have had one like her is that she is probably a little bi polar especially with the abusive dad with drugs, alcohol, and promiscuity mixed in.

If you are who you say you are then you should be able to get a girl that is 23 without all these issues that will "get you". It will take work though and banging random hoes only gets in the way and saps your energy for finding the real girl.

What I would advise is to learn about yourself. If you have this tendency the first step is recognizing you have a problem. You need to step slowly away from needing that validation so bad from women that the first one that "gets you" has ownership.

Part of the solution is to date good girls, whether U.S. or domestic. Good girls oftentimes seem boring on the surface and don't have the pull of hot hoes that get into your spirit right away. You need to discipline yourself. Good girls will follow your lead and oftentimes can become more cool and daring just by spending time with you and wanting to please you. They don't have all this baggage.

Your deep-seeded inner thirst for validation is what is doing this to you.

She's hot so I get it. I may do the same thing even though I have trained myself not to. We are only men.

You are selling yourself short though.

[Travesty]

(09-21-2016 01:02 PM)hunger Wrote:  

[*]The guys out here are pretty lame, so there’s a good chance I’m one of the top 3 coolest guys she’s been with (She says I’m the best but I don’t believe her)

You will never ever get over this if you choose to stay with her. This is the nail in the coffin along with 20 other guys came on her.

You know the answer to her.

The question is what's next?

The hard truth is the number of 8's and 9's that haven't been sluts and aren't with very rich guys is very small even if you are rich and good looking. The player ego and the need for validation from a missing mother figure makes us latch onto bad options that are hot, yet good at "knowing us". We want the validation and connection so bad we give in and trick ourselves into wanting it to last forever. These girls are often girl players in a way and the other side of us on a coin.

The solution is to treat them like a smoker that quits cigarettes. Stay away from them and don't tempt yourself. Place yourself in venues and activities that probably have less 8s and 9s, yet more genuine girls.

This is the crux. To get a lot of ass you end up putting your hand in the cookie jar where it may eventually get snatched. If you want a genuine connection (without sluts) with someone you love banging you oftentimes have to quit the routine that gets you lots of ass.

This is something you, like many of us will struggle with for our entire lives.

If I have a drink or two and am in a good mood and a stranger lights up a cigarette 20 years from now in our group it will still take every inch of will to not ask for one.

You need to listen to your gut. Is your gut saying bang lots of ass? Ok then you need to strictly follow the rules of the game and not let chicks like this over more than once a week for a few hours.

If your gut says "I am tired of this life and I want a partner" well then it is time to start playing by a new set of rules.

You will win more and get what you want when you decide which game you are in and follow a game plan. Free balling with hot hoes is how guys have their lives ruined.

[El Padrone]

Listen to Gen. Stalin. You're letting your temporary emotions rule you.
Emotions in business affairs ( and yes, marriage IS a business venture), is a fatal mistake.

You know the best business advice I ever received?

''when you buy an asset, your profit is made at the time of purchase, NOT when you sell.''

You're buying a cumdumpster with a thin veneer of cheap chinese paint.

RUN.

[Travesty]

One last point on the issue.

Ok, you are a guy that is game aware, has his shit together - has this board as a reference and advice guide.

If we lose you to bad mistakes who the hell do we have left? Everyone is gonna be ruined by hoes soon.

[Laner]

This may not qualify her as slut, merely average, in America. Sad, but true.

It sucks watching yourself fall into a hot piece of ass, the whole time trying to stop yourself, but not willing -or wanting- to do the hard work.

These girls are not building themselves a life for love and affection. And its not that they are dumb, its just that they are more likely to want to follow the herd. Women to avoid (in long term relationships) are universally frightened by the thought of missing out.

Other posters are right. Enjoy the company, the sex, the spectacle of hot women, but be very careful of them in mate selection. I have been in the game a long time, and I still get schooled by 23 year old girls on the high side of beauty.

[Travesty]

(09-21-2016 02:46 PM)Laner Wrote:  

This may not qualify her as slut

You deserve a suspension and maybe even a computer virus for even beginning to condone this.

[Phoenix]

To dissent, or perhaps just play devils advocate: maybe you should just stick with it.

Everyone here always says "oh just move on". On to what? Is the whole of America's male population going to pack up and move overseas?

It sounds good and strong and clever to say "just walk away". And what will he walk away to? Some other American women who isn't quite as fucked up? Or not quite as unattractive or slutty and so on? Accept nothing but flawless in a country full of the most flawed, and you guarantee ending up alone.

Based on what I've heard and seen regarding relationships with American women, if you have no particular inclination to leave America and go to greener pastures, perhaps you just have to accept there is a 90% chance you're going to have a bad outcome, just get something "good enough" so the outcome is only "bad" instead of "terrible", and prepare yourself for the inevitable painful things waiting over the horizon. Stoicism etc.

[Lance Blastoff]

The questions that you've raised are existential in nature. I applaud your desire for self understanding and your high degree of self-awareness already, but this really isn't the best place to get the deep personal, psychological insight you're looking for. This is the sort of thing you spend years figuring out.

You should seek out a trained psychologist, or ideally a psychiatrist, who you can really explore these matters with. Based on what little information you've given (and how you've presented it), you will want to explore Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

This is not saying you have it. You may have some aspects of it in your psyche and understanding this disorder may help understand your own issues. A lot of very successful people have certain narcissistic characteristics and it is actually part of why they are successful professionally and interpersonally.

There's a lot of bullshit about NPD on the web by people who hate those with it because of personal experiences and their own disorders, so be careful in drawing any immediate conclusions or taking anything too seriously that you read. The key issue is that men who grow up with unloving mothers often tend to draw their emotional cues and sense of validation from outside sources. This makes them very receptive to (and easily manipulated by) narcissistic and borderline personality women. (Promiscuous, reckless, but still attractive, charming and intelligent women often have narcissistic or borderline personalities.)

Hope this helps!

[Kid Twist]

(09-21-2016 01:15 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

If you are hunting for a wife, then focus on looking for characteristics that would make a good longer term partner and a mother. As much as you may not want to hear it, it may be near impossible for you to find such a girl that is also a "9/10"

At the most important level, the thrill you have from a woman is really what we complain on these boards about emotions and rationalizations, hamstering that women themselves fall into.

So what if your girl isn't an 8 or 9? She just needs to be attractive and then the feminine part of her character and loyalty to you is the most fulfilling thing. It crushes "hotness" by miles, because that's fleeting anyway, duh

Don't do the mirror image of the carousel that leads to nowhere (you know, the mid 30 girl asking why)

Be honest, and act accordingly. Just like happiness isn't a goal in itself it is a byproduct of character and virtue, so is a fulfilling relationship with a quality, loyal woman. Leave hotness out of your mind as a primary. Learn from the idiots that talk about "happiness" all the time --- they are clueless.

[Travesty]

(09-21-2016 02:56 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

To dissent, or perhaps just play devils advocate: maybe you should just stick with it.

I do believe there will be a trend in 10-15 years if things accelerate and more men become red pill players.

Guys will enter into partnerships with women to raise children without no romantic agreement.

You pick a woman solely on genetic matching for health and happiness of children. You very well may live together as roommates to raise the children.

You bang anyone else you want for the rest of your life without guilt or fear while enjoying a family unit that is based on the kids and love for each other sans lust for your partner.

[DJ-Matt]

More than 2 sexual partners and she's damaged for life relationship-marriage-wise, throw this one back or keep as plate.

[XPQ22]

"Sluts with a heart of gold" can be fine, I don't see any reason to leave her IF you can be OK with her just being a plate, and it's at least implied that you're not in an exclusive relationship. It has been consistently surprising to me how many women are open to the idea so long as a) the sex is some of the best they've had and b) you're really enjoyable company.

Once you spend some time around women and listen to them talk about their previous relationships, you realize just how many lame dudes there are out there. It's like there are 500 channels with reruns of "The Andy Griffith Show" on, but as a guy with game you're one channel that's got Season 2 of "Stranger Things" coming up. They're dying for that experience and if you're one of few guys that's got it, you can pretty much name your price.

It's frankly a bit of a ploy to keep the power more in your favor. Monogamous or not, I think girls who are in any type of relationship with a guy they really like, except for the most jaded of jaded sluts won't actively sleep around that much. I don't think they finally get much enjoyment out of it: "Why am I banging this lame-o when I could be seeing the guy I really like?"

Then they rationalize you by saying "I know he's not sleeping around much either, cuz he's so busy with his work and mission in life. Maybe there's a girl or two every once in a while. Oh well."

My suspicion is that most women who will agree to this type of relationship will be "loyal" 90% of the time. The overwhelming majority of the time they could be out hoe-ing they'll be sitting home, watching Netflix and thinking about you instead. And if they do "slip" they'll likely be thinking about you when they see him, too.

Other than that sort of deal, I guess the only options are, as other forum members have stated, next her and hope for a quasi-virgin to appear (good luck with that in the US), or wife her up, watch the sex pitter away to nothing over a year or two as she puts on weight, and then deal with the inevitable fallout when she bangs someone else while you're sitting at home twiddling your thumbs. I'm only in my late 30s and I'd say over half of my currently married male friends in the US are already on their second wife. IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFERENT THIS TIME

IMO 32 is too young to be considering "settling down" anyway...

[hv123]

women who study psychology are usually self absorbed cunts.

[AboveAverageJoe]

Number one: You have fallen deep for this chick.
Number two: Never plan a future with a woman, plan your future and allow her to be in it or not,
ONE YOUR TERMS.
Number three: This one will cheat on you.

Don't see why a guy with all these options and resources is checking out at the beginning of his prime.

[hunger]

Thanks for all the great responses, especially from Travesty and Chemistry.

You're all totally right, and I was doing really well with keeping these hoes out of my life and focusing, deliberately and intellectually, on finding a suitable mate for marriage. However, I met this one in a context where we saw each other every day for a number of weeks, so it was harder to resist.

Something else I've noticed, is that every women I've ever had a strong emotional reaction to, has looked like my mother in her prime. So I suspect that on some level, I'm looking for someone that looks like her and gives me the emotional validation that i never got from her.

I'm definitely looking for a wife. I've had so many girls, the chase just isn't fun to me anymore. I know men can have kids later in life, but I don't wanna be 54 with a 9 year old around. I wanna start a family within the next 5-7 years.

I've been looking at "good girls" at work lately, and thinking about what needs to change in my game to get that type of girl. Perhaps the need for validation?