[Plutoman]

Hey,

I have not been around this forum in a long while. I wanted to make this post as a lesson, to share my story, and keep other men from making the same mistakes I did. I have hesitated because I have some very complicated stuff to deal with, but I believe that I am far enough under the radar that my online identity won't be tracked here, nor that my story will hurt my situation, unless by association to this forum. If you are interested in sharing this.. please do not, not right now. I can't stop anyone, but I do ask that of the people here. I am not inexperienced with gaming girls; but I fell for a classic mistake. I had been with a fair amount of girls (not a lot, but I did okay enough), and then I found one I thought was different. One that I respected, because she didn't try to screw around while she was young; who seemed to have strong morals.

Many men that visit this forum are tasting the red pill for the first time. Many are still staring at the pills, wondering which they really want to take. I want to tell you all to take the red pill, and don't look back. A common catch-phrase I know is that NAWALT, spoken by those who have not been burned before; and I will say back, yes, AWALT. There are no exceptions.

[ December, 2013 ]
I had been dating an older gal for a bit; that ended. Within a week or so, I got connected up with a girl in a church, started attending some of the meetups for it (not interested in the girl I connected up with; she was chubby, but social connections helped). I met a few other girls on the side via the church, as well, that I went out with. In the second week of December, I met the girl that this story is about. We started going out, went strong. I met her at a small restaurant, straight away we hit it off. Went out the next night.. and almost every night thereafter. Took her virginity the second night we went out. Very christian girl. At the time, she was 21 years old. No alcohol required for her, though. Let's call her Mary, for the sake of an identifier.

Things progressed quickly. The first roadblock; that girl that I connected up with for the church started calling girls I had known / asked out / etc and told them lots of bad stuff about me, that I was a player, that I'd ruin their hearts and lives. Parents were called of these girls (all of them between the ages of 19 and 22, not like they were very young!). Crazy, right? Didn't matter for the other girls, but this one, I was actually dating. At that point we had seen each other 6 nights a week for the whole 3 weeks prior. So let me put it this way; her parents started not liking me then.

[ One Month in ]
She tells me she loves me. Great. Another week later, I say it back. I was managing the relationship fine, but hey, it goes how it goes. We had fun, a great time. Step by step we progress through our relationship. She was very submissive to me, she was artistic and fun. Great sex.

[ 3 Months in ]
We were truly dating, in a relationship. I held up my end. I got in trouble a few times for macking around town with some friends, but never cheated. Her parents started throwing drama at her (not me). Mary's mother was a neurotic control freak, and was not happy with her first-born daughter's course in life. Second daughter was the favored one - married and a baby while still a teenager. Multiple bogus "career" type stuff she was doing, and was only getting bigger. Etc etc. Mary was working as a careworker for smaller kids and a special needs home, taking care of adults with mental and physical disabilities. She was the caring type, a motherly type.

[ 4 months in ]
Mary's mother throwing up drama eventually resulted in her getting kicked out. Took her car. They both worked at one place the same; ended up with Mary getting fired from both her jobs due to the complications (they had helped each other manage scheduling, so she could keep her jobs). So where does she go? Really, they wanted her to come crawling back to them. That was the whole goal. But I took her in. I was at the time living with my parents. I took her in, shared my car. Shared my life, and shared my family. Fast forward more. The relationship deepened. It was honestly great in a lot of ways. She went through several jobs and then found a great fit for her; she had tried sales and other things, and went back to a full-time personal nanny. Consistent pay & they even gave her vacation pay. It was good money (we'll say equivalent to $17 an hour, full time), for someone with no degree.

[ 6+ months in ]
We shared everything; took trips together. Eventually had a joint bank account. Joint car, after my old one finally died and was too expensive to fix. No phone passwords, because we trusted each other. This was the girl with morals, with faith, that stood by me. Supported me when I was trying to be the entrepreneur I knew I could be. I made exceptions for her in my head. She was a virgin.. I was the only guy she had ever slept with. We had great sex; two or three times a day. Trying new things. Always experimenting. But chill; we were both fairly introverted. She had a set of morals that I admired. I went to church sometimes with her, because I didn't want her to lose that set of morals. She was head over heels for me.

[ 18+ months in ]
As time went on, her family had apologized to her. She always wanted family in her life. She spoke of her dreams that our families could eventually be friends, even after the drama when she was kicked out (rude messages were sent to my parents, for us taking her in - because it wasn't "christian"). It seemed like maybe they had learned their lesson. Nope, I learned mine. I encouraged her to spend some time with family. She spent more and more time. I'd go with her. We all spent a fair bit of time. There was always small things. She'd always comment on how annoyed she was that her mother kept asking her to come over so much. Or how they would react if we moved out together. She was still just as head over heels for me as when we met.

[ 30+ months in ]
Family situation seemed fine. Everything seemed great. We decided to move out together. My friend was renting us a room for cheap. I broke the news to her parents; they were not happy, but they were still happy for us. They encouraged us to get married, actually. I was considering it. I had a ring I could give her, my great grandmother's. I was hesitant, because I wasn't sure I would want kids as soon as she did. But she also was waiting until my company was taking off. So I thought things would work great. Her birthday was coming up. We had a celebration at her parents house. Somehow I left my phone there, it was dead and had fallen out of my pocket. Didn't think anything of it. She picked it up on her way home from work the next day. Her brother had charged it, apparently, so I thought, hey, useful. She knew what was on my phone, so wasn't worried.

[ 2 weeks ago ]
Not long after moving in together, we were putting together new furniture, making plans for a theme park, planning our trip that was happening the next month. It was amazing. Our lives were moving forward. Happy days. Then her mother wants to go out to lunch with her. I say, hey, go ahead. She wanted to reschedule to dinner, but mother declined, would not do it. Was going to cancel, but I said go ahead. She left with a kiss and hug and said to look forward to tonight. We texted a bit after; finalizing some plans. She said she loves me, she'll see me soon.

I didn't hear anything back for a while - wasn't worried, I was working, she was out and about. 3 hours after she left - her family barged into the house. Telling me that she will be moving out for a few days. I was confused. Horribly confused. But I said okay, said I want to talk to her. Tried calling, no answers. They started grabbing her clothes. I stood back and tried to contact her. I knew something was wrong, but I thought we would be able to talk. Then they started grabbing the furniture. I knew something was really wrong then. I said get out of my house, I'm going to call the cops. They started saying some bull about not having the right, because of joint rental (except she was not there, so uhh...) and then her dad yelled at me the classic accusation, threatening to call the cops on me.

I started to dial the cops to get them out, but they just left. I couldn't exactly stop 3 against 1 (not small guys), so they basically grabbed all the new furniture (it was only 4 pieces, but still, all the small stuff on the side I didn't see them grab as well). I could not reach her, either. I had no idea what to do at that point. My landlord (& friend) called and her mother answered (not her!). They staged an intervention with Mary, essentially. My mother got a message from her mother about control, and how she kept finding ways around her family's expectations, and that they needed to preserve harmony in the family. I checked the bank account. It had been cleared out before the family even got to the house. All the money we had been saving together. Gone. Poof.

I was left here to pick up the pieces.

I called a police well-check on her, at her family's. I at this point, had thought they had just taken her phone, and she was shut down, confused, not knowing what to do. In retrospect, she still went along with what they wanted. So the story was different. She, however, did tell the officer she was upset with her parents. And that she would be in touch with me soon.

[ The next day ]
I was sure that she had not really intended any of this. I was ticked off, but I thought that maybe if she could get away from her family's, we could talk, some kind of resolution could be made. I was sure I was fighting with her family. I'm sure I played right into what they wanted. I called them, demanded my furniture back (it was paid for on a credit card in my name; that hadn't even been paid off yet). I had been left with the entire last month's of bills (we were building credit score, with auto payments for the full balance) and no money. They took my last work paycheck, direct deposited that morning. So I demanded it back and asked for a civil standby, because I wanted to make sure there was a witness. They told the police to F-off, and us to F-off, and that they "don't have anything of mine" and that they do not want us near their property.

[ One week ago ]
You might not be surprised to hear a detective showed up at my house.. I cannot give real details here because this is still in the allegations phase. No charges have been filed. To give the minor details, it was referring to events months ago for a few things we had experimented with and then texted about - everything that was fine at the time, fun, many discussions had about it to try new things and have more fun in the bedroom. You see, another in a long list of lessons; her family had gone through my phone. And then also gone through hers. Everything personal. Every picture (yes, even those). Every text message. Every argument, every bathroom selfie she sent showing skin. Her parents will read what they want from it - and just keep in mind they are neurotic hyper-evangelical christian types, that use christianity as an excuse to control (well, primarily the mother).

A couple weeks after this all started, I am sitting here writing this. I am moving on with my life. I have learned a level of cynicism that I had hoped never to have. I am still dealing with the frustrations. I have no idea if I will be paying a bloody fortune shortly. But I am still moving on, emotionally. I am becoming colder. More calculating. More motivated to set my life up properly. I am not going my own way; but I have lost that innocence, that willingness to believe that a unicorn existed.

[Plutoman]

I have learned many lessons here. I'm sure the experts can point out quite a few;
1) Don't share financials.
2) Keep a phone locked.
3) Do not text about anything potentially incriminatory if it is looked at in the wrong way.
4) Do not take pictures of anything potentially incriminatory if looked at out of context.
5) Do not take anything for granted. Anything you invest in a woman, can and will be lost at some point.
6) Do not trust that any woman seems different, is different.

I still can look back through every text message, every memory. I did not see this coming. Hindsight being perfect, there was still no sign. I would have assumed that she would have rebuffed her parents. But the final lesson is that a woman will always move towards self preservation, the decision that she believes gives her the best "chances", regardless of any investment, history, love, whatever you might call it. When called to choose between family and her partner, that she wanted to marry, in the end, she chose family. She would not have known, instinctually, whether we would be permanent - and so she sticks with what is permanent, no matter how much they had hurt her.

And another lesson being that - even if a girl is absorbed into your world - it's not just her frame to consider. You have to always consider every frame that competes with yours. Friends, family, everything. If they go nuclear on her, towards you. It is not just your frame vs hers.

Hopefully this is a lesson from my life right now, to help others. I am far more cynical than I should be in just my mid-twenties.

[Going strong]

"it was referring to events months ago for a few things we had experimented with and then texted about - everything that was fine at the time, fun, many discussions had about it to try new things and have more fun in the bedroom"

Generally speaking, taking (and keeping on one's phone) pictures of oneself doing coke with Gf, is not a good idea. Do not take pics of you doing anything like that. And anyway, you now know the principle - quoting you : "3) Do not text about anything potentially incriminatory if it is looked at in the wrong way."

Now, can we totally blame the family? What would you do if it were your daughter? Not that it is any excuse to steal your furniture and money, though...

[Plutoman]

(09-01-2016 03:51 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Generally speaking, taking (and keeping on one's phone) pictures of oneself doing coke with Gf, is not a good idea. Do not take pics of you doing anything like that.

Except nothing illegal was ever done, I am talking sexual experimentation, not drugs or anything along those lines. Sorry, don't want to be specific, not now, but it honestly was not anything extreme, and the kind of stuff that probably half the guys on this forum have tried kind of "experimentation".

But yes, except it wasn't just financials, everything like that, but also trying to put me in prison for half my life.

I know my mistakes, now. I don't even blame her in particular. She is looking out for herself. What I am trying to caution against is ever assuming that a girl will stand by you if it is in her better interest to go against you.

[Going strong]

(09-01-2016 03:54 PM)Plutoman Wrote:  

(09-01-2016 03:51 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

Generally speaking, taking (and keeping on one's phone) pictures of oneself doing coke with Gf, is not a good idea. Do not take pics of you doing anything like that.

Except nothing illegal was ever done, I am talking sexual experimentation, not drugs or anything along those lines. Sorry, don't want to be specific, not now.

But yes, except it wasn't just financials, everything like that, but also trying to put me in prison for half my life.

A sexual experimentation that could send you in jail for 30 years? Man... bondage? staged (false) rape (role-playing I think they call it), recorded on your phone? Do not keep material like that on a phone... Seek legal advice asap!

[General Stalin]

Sounds like her family is a bunch of overbearing psychos. I wouldn't be surprised if the girl gets back in touch with you in the near future. Basically what you are saying is that their family, who didn't like you from the beginning, got a hold of your phone and saw/read a bunch of sexual shit they didn't approve of and banished their daughter from being with you. That's some bullshit man. Sorry to hear...

Should keep a password on your personal devices that may fall into other's hands. I don't care if you "trust your girlfriend" it's not just about that. Also should encrypt the data on your phone so if someone plugs it into a computer they can't just take pics and whatever other data off of it.

Hopefully you can get all your property back that they stole. Problem is, if you had a joint bank account, the girl had full rights to withdraw all of the money so you're fucked there.

Good story that shows if you are looking to get serious with a female then her family is also a very important factor one cannot overlook.

[Schlep]

OP thank you for sharing your story. I feel your pain brother. I myself was married for thirteen years. Came home early from work one day and walked into something I didn't want to see. Went through a horrible divorce and hit rock bottom. Spent two years being mad at the world and blaming everyone else for my problems. But, you know what. I came out of the situation a better and stronger man.

In every life a little rain must fall.

[Plutoman]

(09-01-2016 03:56 PM)Going strong Wrote:  

A sexual experimentation that could send you in jail for 30 years? Man... bondage? staged (false) rape (role-playing I think they call it), recorded on your phone? Do not keep material like that on a phone... Seek legal advice asap!

I have a lawyer. That was the first day I had a detective come by that I got one. I was hesitant to post all this because of the allegations. But I needed to, because it's something hard to talk about in person. Good friends & family behind me though.

(09-01-2016 04:01 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

Should keep a password on your personal devices that may fall into other's hands. I don't care if you "trust your girlfriend" it's not just about that. Also should encrypt the data on your phone so if someone plugs it into a computer they can't just take pics and whatever other data off of it.

Good story that shows if you are looking to get serious with a female then her family is also a very important factor one cannot overlook.

I hope everyone can take these lessons from this. I will always be doing this. We also shared a dropbox; it made it easy to take a picture on either phone, and we could both access them. Bad idea as well.

(09-01-2016 04:03 PM)Schlep Wrote:  

I myself was married for thirteen years. Came home early from work one day and walked into something I didn't want to see. Went through a horrible divorce and hit rock bottom.

Dude, I'm so sorry to hear that happened. I am truly thankful that I am learning these lessons now, at 25, rather than after being married. I'm glad you came out better for it.

[RedPillUK]

Sorry to hear this, I hope there is still something you can do. Don't give up yet.

[kaotic]

Alot went wrong here - you came out pretty unscathed.

Don't talk to the police, don't talk to her family, don't talk to the cops, get a lawyer if you can.

(09-01-2016 03:31 PM)Plutoman Wrote:  

I have learned many lessons here. I'm sure the experts can point out quite a few;
1) Don't share financials.
2) Keep a phone locked.
3) Do not text about anything potentially incriminatory if it is looked at in the wrong way.
4) Do not take pictures of anything potentially incriminatory if looked at out of context.
5) Do not take anything for granted. Anything you invest in a woman, can and will be lost at some point.
6) Do not trust that any woman seems different, is different.

You're goddamn right and unfortunately you learned a hard yet valuable lesson.

Quote:

[ 3 Months in ]
We were truly dating, in a relationship. I held up my end. I got in trouble a few times for macking around town with some friends, but never cheated. Her parents started throwing drama at her (not me). Mary's mother was a neurotic control freak, and was not happy with her first-born daughter's course in life. Second daughter was the favored one - married and a baby while still a teenager. Multiple bogus "career" type stuff she was doing, and was only getting bigger. Etc etc. Mary was working as a careworker for smaller kids and a special needs home, taking care of adults with mental and physical disabilities. She was the caring type, a motherly type.

This is where it should've ended.

A controlling mother can ruin EVERYTHING, especially with a weak father backing her up.

I always look at her parents and decide, if it's an LTR or a fling.

This was the biggest red flag and where you could've cut your losses.

Quote:

[ 4 months in ]
Mary's mother throwing up drama eventually resulted in her getting kicked out. Took her car. They both worked at one place the same; ended up with Mary getting fired from both her jobs due to the complications (they had helped each other manage scheduling, so she could keep her jobs). So where does she go? Really, they wanted her to come crawling back to them. That was the whole goal. But I took her in. I was at the time living with my parents. I took her in, shared my car. Shared my life, and shared my family. Fast forward more. The relationship deepened. It was honestly great in a lot of ways. She went through several jobs and then found a great fit for her; she had tried sales and other things, and went back to a full-time personal nanny. Consistent pay & they even gave her vacation pay. It was good money (we'll say equivalent to $17 an hour, full time), for someone with no degree.

A woman's family's problems should not be your problems if you're just dating.

This mother is absolutely fucking toxic.

But you were in love and took her in.



Be glad it didn't get worse - just law low and avoid that family and her.


P.S. A good christian girls giving up her virginity on the 2nd night out ?



She might have good intentions but I'm surprised she gave it up that fast.

[Disco_Volante]

I think the focus of game on a girl largely ignores a big issue which is her family.

You shouldn't take any shit or disrespect from a girl's family. I learned this after putting up with that type of shit for a long time. Snarky comments, subtle disrespect, etc...

It doesn't matter if it's her dad or mother and they're 'really good people' or whatever. The same way you'd walk if a girlfriend gives you shit, I think you need to be willing to cut a girl based on her family too. It's natural to rationalize it like 'they're just looking out for their little girl, don't take it personally'.

Women are more herd animals than men, they will go along with whatever their social group wants them to do. Even if she loves you, the social group (her family) will win in this case, she will side with them.

Your story is a sad reminder you have to have your guard up all the time. Instead of an enjoyable relationship you're more like a football coach managing a game to get the results you want. If you aren't on guard you'll get fucked one way or another.

[Bluto]

OP, I do feel bad that you got into this. I think that you made some mistakes that some folks have already gone over. Don't beat yourself up on this. You are on the right track in getting an attorney. Since it is not already mentioned, talk to your attorney to see if you need a restraining order against her and her family, especially if this escalates.

I don't think that you did anything wrong initially. In fact a few members on this forum recommend doing what you did in order to find suitable wife material these days. You screened what seemed like a nice girl with no sexual past. As stated by others, the big mistake is screening the family properly in an LTR, which is the biggest lesson out of all of this. For any LTR, the family should be gamed as much as the girlfriend, especially when you want to put a ring on it. The other option is to move your girl significantly away from her family, as in the other side of the country.

I agree to avoid contact with her and focus on your family and work. Move out of where you lived with her so that they don't specifically know where you are. Follow the advice of your attorney, and that includes banging the sluts at the local watering hole.

[Plutoman]

(09-01-2016 06:45 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

P.S. A good christian girls giving up her virginity on the 2nd night out ?



She might have good intentions but I'm surprised she gave it up that fast.

Absolutely right on all of it. And yeah - it surprised me. She was also homeschooled (I was, as well). Sheltered. I can 100% confirm the virginity though. I also know she dated two guys before me; and I know she didn't give up the back end; but the last option, sure. To be expected. I will take these lessons to the grave, myself.

(09-01-2016 06:47 PM)Disco_Volante Wrote:  

Your story is a sad reminder you have to have your guard up all the time. Instead of an enjoyable relationship you're more like a football coach managing a game to get the results you want. If you aren't on guard you'll get fucked one way or another.

This is the red pill. There is no moment of letting your guard down. I was happy, because to be honest, the relative value between us was at least a few points. She was cute, but not hot. She stayed fairly fit, but she knew I had dated prettier girls. Most of game focuses on the girl. I have nearly 3 years of my life wasted on this chick (not totally wasted; but a lot else could have been done) because I focused my game towards the girl, and didn't consider the rest. Her herd always wins. No matter how much hold you have over her. The only way to handle that is to remove her from the herd, entirely - which also tremendously increases the burden on you. No matter what gap you have, as well, there is no being lazy, or taking things easy. It's our responsibility to handle it. Always. One way or another, it will always need to be handled.

The biggest lesson that is not intuitively seen is to look beyond, to see the influences on the girl beyond yourself. I'm an inner nerd; so I imagine a space game, where people are planets, borders are defined, and you bring a girl into your territory. It's not just you that has to handle her, but rather all the competing territories around as well. They never will go away. Friends and family. Arrange them so they work in your favor, not against you. Always keep them in mind. Because it really has nothing to do with explicitly her family; it could have been anyone. I really did feel this was important enough to put here. I don't know many (really, just one) guys, even guys who are relatively aware, that consider that aspect. It's not covered in any book, that is for sure.

As far as the legal side goes, yeah, I am getting that handled. The thing to strive for is to not have charges filed, which is a matter of proving that there isn't a case worth following, which my attorney is already working towards and I have plenty of evidence to make sure that even in court, I can avoid getting screwed. My next step is a 3 week trip out of state to reset. I have fantastic (and game / gender dynamics aware) mentors to make sure I learn the right lessons. I have had them drilled in quite consistently. Most of them knew her, as well, and knew her fairly well, which makes it even more poignant.

[UlteriorMotive]

Thanks for sharing this Pluto.

Your post has made me think back on my own experiences in a different light.

Stay strong brother, I'd like to hear how things progress if it is safe for you to do so.

[Sewage2016]

This is a great post and a substantive reason why this forum has value for many men.

I've been through hell with an ex-spouse also whose family committed theft, extortion, suicide threats and blamed me for their son's drug dealing. They were ministers and Christian missionaries if you can believe it. That was 6 years ago and it taught me incredible life lessons. It showed me who my true friends and family are. Every life involves suffering and heartache. It's how we respond to that suffering which defines our character as men.

One bit of advice I received in the early days. . . You can get through this storm which will pass. You are stronger than you can possibly imagine. Any man who has given and contributed so much at your age has a lifetime of positivity to look forward to living. Don't let those who try to pull you down keep you low.

[Leonard D Neubache]

I would not engage in a relationship with a woman who's father and brothers I could not go toe to toe with.

You will never be the man of the house if the women can summon a superior male.

[General Stalin]

^Hahaha new questions to ask a potential LTR:

"Yo how tall is your father and all your siblings?"

"How much do they weigh?"

"How much do they squat/bench/DL?"

"Do they own guns?"

"What caliber?"

[RatInTheWoods]

You have to get a one to one, private off the record chat with the girl, and see if she is over you or living in fear of family threats.

If she is willingingly done with you then chalk it up as a cheap lesson in life.

But if she is held at shotgun, then thats a whole different kettle of fish, aint it?

[fiasco360]

(09-01-2016 08:55 PM)UlteriorMotive Wrote:  

Thanks for sharing this Pluto.

Your post has made me think back on my own experiences in a different light.

Stay strong brother, I'd like to hear how things progress if it is safe for you to do so.

+1

It made the ideas I had rolling around in my head become a bit more illuminated. Talking about the permanence of things (why she chose her herd over you), her self preservation and constant competition have really cemented my rolling thoughts.

PS: 2nd date she gave it up?

[Leonard D Neubache]

(09-02-2016 12:39 AM)General Stalin Wrote:  

^Hahaha new questions to ask a potential LTR:

"Yo how tall is your father and all your siblings?"

"How much do they weigh?"

"How much do they squat/bench/DL?"

"Do they own guns?"

"What caliber?"

Pfft. You can cut to the chase through all of that.

You just say, "babe, I need to warn you that when I meet the men in your family, if they give me shit I'm going to have to drop them."

Gauge her response. If she laughs (as in "yeah, right") then you're in trouble. If she looks concerned then you're golden

[OneEyedMonk]

Oh sweet Jesus.

I disagree with much of my very respected brothers above are saying, and will give you the unadulterated, real talk:

You simply were not good enough for her. Objectively. Her mother did the calculus, and went straight into action to torpedo that union.

The "Quad-C" test (Career - Coin - Cabin - Car) you, brother, are completely failing:

1. You seem to live paycheck to paycheck. Cubical? Soul-crushing? Shitty pay? Low status?

2. Your net worth close to zero, right? More? US$10k?, US$100k, US$1mm??

3. You live with your parents. With.Your.Parents.

4. Your old car, brother, died? Forgive me for asking, but am I right it is from the times when the blessed Paul VI ruled the Vatican?

Now I put this into my SMV algorithm, and you score is nothing to write home about. I bet you have a sweet, helping personality, you are reliable and a great friend, but it does not move the needle in the SMV algorithm.

Now enter her family.

I need to first say, I like them. That is the kind of traditional family that most of my brothers here - rightfully - have been crying a river about, wishing them back, as it was in 1956, since they almost do not exist anymore.

Mary is almost a perfect bride. Have a look at Roosh's 7-points checklist. Mary gets a PERFECT score. Young, virgin, around a 7, believes in a God, is feminine....etc.

There was a gigantic mismatch. You were pulling waaay above your weight. She is too good for you. I know, I know, it sort of just happened, you did not look for marriage material, or marriage itself, nor did she. It seems it was two young peeps who liked each other, and just sort of stumbled into something serious.

Her parents seem to be the kind of "traditional" parents who from the very beginning saw that this was not the right match, that she could pull a much higher-value man, and immediately got some torpedoes down the tube in your ship's direction, and got the Propaganda Department going into overtime to discredit and ultimately destroy your standing. They successfully did. You being the trusting, naive young man in the very end opened the door (no password on phone) for them to even get hold of a nuclear weapon, and hit you with it. And they sent in the Family Police to kick your stupid, low value ass.

No, no, brother, I do not want to insult you here, but rather wake you up. She-was-too-good-for-you. And what was on offer (marriage, kids now) you did not want in the first place. In some way they saved you ass, in addition to saving their little sweet girl's life from a stupid decision.

I know it hurts. It hurts very much. Go ahead and shed a few tears while hiding from everybody, get drunk, but in the end you need to THANK LIFE and THANK HER FAMILY that you were saved. This painful event was a GIFT.
Have also a look at the other thread where I posted the link to CH's article how to heal Oneitis. It is pretty simple, if you know what you are doing.

Imagine if you would have married, struggled with finances, the families, and among yourselves, put a few kids into the world, and then she would have dropped you in ...15 years. She would have destroyed you.

This girl was not in love with you, brother.

Read up how a women in love with do the stupidest shit on the planet, crawl under barbed wire, shoot up the guards of the high-security penitentiary, to just get to you. Mary was tested with one of the most powerful shit-test available to men, namely the ghastly choice between her parents and the man she maybe was in love with. And you know what: the lab result came back saying "negative". She is not that girl. Lots more out there, bro. Pick one when you are ready to strike. In the meanwhile, enjoy the ride. It is a beautiful life out there. The sun in shining, the flowers are blooming.

Wasted 3 years of your life? HELL NO!!
This is satan speaking to you.
While you are celebrating this "GIFT" as I described above, of you dodging the bullet, I want to leave you with this lesson on life:
“A deception that elevates us is dearer than a host of low truths.”
The great Pushkin (who died in a stupid duel with his wife's alleged lover (yea, I know that leaves questions about his overall wisdom...) left us this great, great wisdom.

Life handed you the sweet love experience, and you were drinking from it for a few years. On your deathbed you will remember this loooooove as one of the sweetest experiences that life ever handed over to you. Do not sabotage it. Enbrace it. Treasure it. But move on. Even though we want to hold to so many things in life, everything is fleeting, including our very own lives, and will be taken from us sometime.

Oh one last piece of advice: charge the cost of this experience to (a) The Game and (b) Growing Up. Have your lawyer call up theirs and tell them they can keep whatever they want, furniture, hard cash etc. Purposely make it as painful for you as you can - financial pain is healing.

Yes, you lost your innocence. Looooove will never be the same again. Welcome among us adults

[fenetre]

Great post man, truly horrifying but you have illuminated some important points.

As I was reading it, I immediately knew your problem - the mother.

Kaotic picked up on it first. The relationship was doomed from the outset in my eyes.

Your are right - AWALT. I was only having this conversation with a mate yesterday. You should never, ever, trust a woman in the way you would trust a male friend.

In future relationships you must protect yourself. No sharing of shit. No ways for her to screw you. If she questions you, laugh it off.

Every single women is a liquid, ever-changing, hormonal monster who will fuck you over if it suits her. That is how they are constructed by nature. No need to be mad or bitter at them - would you be bitter if your dog barked?

Future relationships need you to have your eyes wide open. Expect the worst and if it doesn't happen you'll know how lucky you are.

Sounds like you're in your mid-20s. You have it all ahead of you man. Be grateful that you went though this now and not in 10 years' time where some woman could run off with everything you built. Be grateful man. There are good times ahead for you if you can internalise the lessons from this horrible event.

[Phoenix]

Any way you can find her and elope? Those cunts started the war, give them the Churchill treatment.

[Plutoman]

(09-02-2016 12:24 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

I would not engage in a relationship with a woman who's father and brothers I could not go toe to toe with.

You will never be the man of the house if the women can summon a superior male.

I can handle one fine. Just not 3. I stay in shape, but I'm not in "that" good of shape. I'd need to bulk another 30-40 pounds for that. I'm too lean.

(09-02-2016 05:22 AM)OneEyedMonk Wrote:  

1. You seem to live paycheck to paycheck. Cubical? Soul-crushing? Shitty pay? Low status?

2. Your net worth close to zero, right? More? US$10k?, US$100k, US$1mm??

3. You live with your parents. With.Your.Parents.

4. Your old car, brother, died? Forgive me for asking, but am I right it is from the times when the blessed Paul VI ruled the Vatican?

First - I totally 100% respect that opinion. However, that said, I do disagree. My main rebuttal; at the time we met, I was 22. Currently, I just turned 25. Started a company w/ a small team of developers, with investor backing, and I made the voluntary decision to keep my shares higher and take less money and focus it towards the company needs. No different than how I worked my long hours all through college and drove a cheap car (which is the one that died) so I left with no loans. I do not like risk, not financially (yes, I missed the risk that came with the relationship). I made all the money in the first half of the relationship. She made more in the latter half. I may or may not be successful, but I am damn well going to try to set myself apart.

Additional, potentially relevant information.
- Their second daughter's husband had 0 career options. After she was about 6 months pregnant, he joined the military to be a low-end grunt because he had no options, period.
- Their third daughter, just turned 18, goes to "hang out" with a guy till 5am at an apartment he shares. 10 months later he still won't commit to her. But, all is forgiven, because what he says is that he wants to be a pastor, and he is just "confused". No, he does not make any money, either. He's, while seeing her, also has been tagged in plenty of facebook posts by slutty girls, which he says are "just friends", and only communicates with her via snapchat. But still, all is forgiven because he is going to be a pastor (and a weird race thing, mother explicitly wants a black grandbaby.. this guy is black, so a lot of leeway is given for that - seriously, nothing against them, but it's a weird, explicit preference).
- Her mother was a former slut, married a beta, runs the house with an iron fist, and is high T (very obviously) and obviously hates the fact that husband is not high T (seriously, he actually has a medical issue for it). Lives vicariously via daughters. Even tried to force Mary to join the national guard "so she could learn discipline", the girl that just wanted to be a mother. Always hated the fact that she was a nanny, and wanted her to go find a career. They will be forcing her to go to college (they got her to quit her job, already). These were consistent trends, that I should have paid more attention to. She was kicked out of the home because she wanted to go to starbucks - at 21 years old - and she was told she needs to ask for permission to go to starbucks (in a car she was paying for, no less).

For my life; this is beneficial. I avoid the raw deal, I can focus on my career, I can get younger girls. No need to go my own age. I learn the hard lessons early. I don't regret any of that. What I regret is not having a more peaceful ending; and being able to say I left her life better than I found it. She chose her family over me because she was not certain if I would stay with her long-term and always be faithful. That is a decision I had been struggling with already, and she was intuitive enough to know that. No oneitis counseling needed. And you might disagree with that assessment, as to why she chose that, but I have more than a few RL associates who know both of us and would agree. It's hard to get the whole picture when I haven't provided it, though, so I get it. On the instinctual level, she did not know if I would provide for her.

But this story is not actually about my life. I'm not here looking for advice or answers, contrary to it. I'll be flying to SF for 3 weeks shortly to figure out how to shift up my company timelines. Originally it was intended to be a second vacation for us, but that is changed now. I just want to share this. It's a deeply personal story and it's still going on. And I think as much as I can learn lessons from it, my friends have learned lessons from it, more can also learn from it. I do not regret an experience if it means something good comes from it.

PS: Apologies if I come across defensive. It IS a very personal subject, but I do appreciate the input. Can always learn from input, positive or negative. I will say I think you place far too much SMV on pure financials, though. Area, maybe? Larger proportion of financially-focused women? It varies by city in my experience. I had to take a bit to write this because I myself just wanted to deny everything you said. I can work on the ego, a bit, maybe. I think I'm providing too many personal details for the situation, as well. By lost my innocence, I don't mean shit about love. I mean I lost the romantic notions, that I tried to hold to that I grew up with. They don't exist. It's a colder world than Disney likes to portray. I forgot that. I heard my mentors, and tried to find the reasons as to why they were wrong. Now I understand; it was simply my own home-grown desires that blinded me. That is the innocence I lost - the guy that naively believed that since he wants the world to work a certain way, it must, I just needed to find the right reasons backing it.

@Phoenix - Not going to. She still chose her family over me; I will not take her back after that. If she had stayed loyal through this, then I would have married her.

[Plutoman]

(09-02-2016 01:58 AM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

You have to get a one to one, private off the record chat with the girl, and see if she is over you or living in fear of family threats.

If she is willingingly done with you then chalk it up as a cheap lesson in life.

But if she is held at shotgun, then thats a whole different kettle of fish, aint it?

Nah, she chose her family. She can't go back now. She goes back, she loses her family, and then she's already screwed me over, what would she expect? She'd have no idea.

So, no, that was the intention of the police well-check I so naively called in. I was told by the officer that she was "upset with her parents, but okay" which translates (as I have inferred due to surrounding info) to she was "upset with her parents for forcing the decision, but okay and made the choice she felt she needed to".