[The Black Knight]

(07-26-2016 01:49 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

^ You can keep them around. I have kept pure fuck buddies around for years on the side so have many others.

Why does he know her roommate? Either the old or new? He should NEVER spend enough time to know them. In fact try to act distant. He helped with buying her clothes? Are you kidding? On a fuck buddy the most is buying a $20 pair of sexy panties maybe once a year for her. That's it!

If you want a pure fuck buddy for long periods --- avoid their social circle at all costs for all time. You should be a ghost and a mystery and a name her few close friends can barely remember.

Otherwise questions and comparisons come up.

Her entire social circle will try to sabotage you if they know you well and you aren't investing in her.

Be a fucking shadow.

For instance if you have ever taken a picture together in public you have already lost. If she asks for one at some point it is time to act distant and keep away from her for a week or more.

This whole thread is filled with tons of wisdom but I wanted to highlight this.

This is how I roll.

1. No pictures of me.

2. No pictures together.

3. Hang out in residence only; maybe the odd movie or something where I want company and some eye candy with me. Very rare. No walking me to the parking lot or whatever.

4. I don't ever buy them shit. In fact, I often drive to a chicks place (sometimes up to an hour away) and I'm offended if food isn't prepared/offered to me if I'm staying over. Some chicks don't seem to realize that a proper bang session eats up a lot of fuel as a man.

5. No meeting social circles - Did this before. Went great the first time but when things got a bit dicey with the chick, the social circle turned and made things worse.

And when I mean meeting, I mean ZERO face to face contact. I've had sneaky bitches try to being a friend "over for a minute to pick things up" - NOPE. Bring the shit they need outside or I'm leaving.

As far as anyone is concerned, I don't exist.

I will say I do bend or break the aforementioned guidelines a bit depending on the chick and how cool she is with FWB status. Some chicks are fairly content being FWBs and you can do more stuff with them and sometimes even mimic a LTR. However, some (I would say most) other chicks are always angling for a serious LTR and you must run a tight ship or they will do crazy shit like lash out at you on a dating website.

[eradicator]

Like others have said, if you want to keep her as a fuck buddy, don't buy her anything. At this point, you pretty much have to next her, and chalk it up. Honestly, it sounded like you wanted her as a girlfriend but tried to keep her as a fuckbuddy and got your shit confused. Figure out what you want and stick with it.

[XPQ22]

(07-27-2016 05:46 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

Like others have said, if you want to keep her as a fuck buddy, don't buy her anything. At this point, you pretty much have to next her, and chalk it up. Honestly, it sounded like you wanted her as a girlfriend but tried to keep her as a fuckbuddy and got your shit confused. Figure out what you want and stick with it.

Yes, she seemed to note the incongruity herself.

So I'm reading these "rules" for casual relationships that posters here have laid down, and intellectually I understand them. Don't buy them anything, don't text with them, don't go out with them, don't be seen with them, 'be a shadow', and so on.

To my mind, it basically feels like treating the girl as an unpaid hooker. So I try to think about this from a woman's perspective: we know that it's a seller's market, and there are tons of guys out there dying to hit it. There are almost certainly guys close to or equal to my SMV willing to sign on for those things for a shot.

So if I'm providing essentially zero comfort, I find myself wondering what girl is going to sign on for a situation like that for any length of time. With one of the first girls I banged from online I tried to stick with that frame, not texting or contacting her, etc. except when I wanted to "hang out", and I think I got three or four bangs out of it before she moved on. It didn't seem like a particularly great value for the effort it took to start things with her.

I feel like I can have the mentality "I''m the prize, she should be chasing me and glad to get together anytime I wish" all I want, but if I follow these "rules" to the letter there's going to be little opportunity to demonstrate why she would want it (outside of showing up from time to time for sex, which she doesn't have any trouble getting elsewhere), and any girl who isn't completely fucked is going to quickly be asking herself what exactly the prize is.

I think a poster above is correct, what I really am looking for is more along the lines of a LTR girl. The reason for the incongruity in my frame is that part of me is always trying to head in that direction with these girls, but another part of me (likely influenced by both this site, and some experiences) realizes that even though some of these girls have decent qualities, in general these online girls are fucking unsuitable for the purpose. I certainly don't want to LTR a girl who's essentially giving me a heads up on the "fuckbuddy rules" herself, like she's a member of this forum!

[BassPlayaYo]

If the chick is still giving up the pussy there's nothing wrong with taking it. I would operate as usual but would take certain precautions like blocking her on social sites and I would also swiftly deal with any disrespect on her part. If she can't get her act together, it's time to next her. Like with any deal, you want the item, but if you can't get the terms you want you do without it.

[eradicator]

(07-27-2016 08:53 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

To my mind, it basically feels like treating the girl as an unpaid hooker. So I try to think about this from a woman's perspective: we know that it's a seller's market, and there are tons of guys out there dying to hit it. There are almost certainly guys close to or equal to my SMV willing to sign on for those things for a shot.

She is not a hooker because you are not paying her. If you are doing a friends with benefits, it's your job to fuck her extremely well, that is your one job, if you can do that, then the rest will be fine, and the FWB position can go on for a very long time.

Quote:

So if I'm providing essentially zero comfort, I find myself wondering what girl is going to sign on for a situation like that for any length of time.

A lot of them. If you are providing what they want, sexually, then they will fall in line.

Quote:

I feel like I can have the mentality "I''m the prize, she should be chasing me and glad to get together anytime I wish" all I want, but if I follow these "rules" to the letter there's going to be little opportunity to demonstrate why she would want it (outside of showing up from time to time for sex, which she doesn't have any trouble getting elsewhere), and any girl who isn't completely fucked is going to quickly be asking herself what exactly the prize is.

I guess I will spell it out for you: a lot of guys are apparently bad at sex, they never bothered to learn how to properly fuck the girl they are fucking. If the sex is bad then it is the death of the relationship. If the sex is hot, passionate, fulfilling, then you are doing your job.

Quote:

I think a poster above is correct, what I really am looking for is more along the lines of a LTR girl. The reason for the incongruity in my frame is that part of me is always trying to head in that direction with these girls, but another part of me (likely influenced by both this site, and some experiences) realizes that even though some of these girls have decent qualities, in general these online girls are fucking unsuitable for the purpose. I certainly don't want to LTR a girl who's essentially giving me a heads up on the "fuckbuddy rules" herself, like she's a member of this forum!

Yeah that's fine, just go in with that understanding that most of the women are riding the cock carousel and not really worth investing in a relationship and making them your steady girlfriend.

This might be an unpopular view on here, but occasionally I run across a girl that does not have sex right away(within the first couple of dates) but wants to keep dating me(just coming over, making out, I caveman her and get most of her clothes off and into my bed but hit last minute resistance for the first 4 or 5 dates before eventually getting the bang). That is the girl I would want to put into a LTR, because she is less likely to have seen a thousand cocks. If they bang right away, then just pump and dump and keep hunting.

[XPQ22]

(07-27-2016 12:39 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

This might be an unpopular view on here, but occasionally I run across a girl that does not have sex right away(within the first couple of dates) but wants to keep dating me(just coming over, making out, I caveman her and get most of her clothes off and into my bed but hit last minute resistance for the first 4 or 5 dates before eventually getting the bang). That is the girl I would want to put into a LTR, because she is less likely to have seen a thousand cocks. If they bang right away, then just pump and dump and keep hunting.

Only if she's in her 20s, though. Most of the girls in their 30s who hold out on me have seen a thousand cocks...but they "found themselves" and are "done with the hookup thing"

Quote:

I guess I will spell it out for you: a lot of guys are apparently bad at sex, they never bothered to learn how to properly fuck the girl they are fucking. If the sex is bad then it is the death of the relationship. If the sex is hot, passionate, fulfilling, then you are doing your job.

Guess I didn't realize how grim the situation was. But I like to think one of the reasons this girl let it go on for so long while my frame was faltering and I was being unsure of how to play it was that at least I always gave her that, every time I saw her.

In the past I've tried hitting up some girls from online that nexted me after a few months, and several of them jumped on the opportunity to have sex again. I'm pretty sure if I texted this girl a week or two from now to fuck, she likely wouldn't say no.

But this time I will resist.

[Rhyme or Reason]

There is every reason in the world to avoid the 28+ set for anything remotely serious. I've actually seen how the sluttier the girl, the quicker they age. Taking massive amounts of cock has that affect.

[XPQ22]

(07-27-2016 12:50 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

There is every reason in the world to avoid the 28+ set for anything remotely serious. I've actually seen how the sluttier the girl, the quicker they age. Taking massive amounts of cock has that affect.

I see this sometimes too. It's weird how some girls hit the wall so fast in their 30s. And then I see other girls, for example a couple I knew in high school or college that weren't much to look at in their 20s, but became absolute stunners in their 30s.

Most of the girls I've had success with in their 30s looked younger than their age, if they didn't, I probably wouldn't have been seeing them. Sometimes a few extra lines around the eyes is the only way to tell.

[kaotic]

(07-27-2016 08:53 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

So if I'm providing essentially zero comfort, I find myself wondering what girl is going to sign on for a situation like that for any length of time. With one of the first girls I banged from online I tried to stick with that frame, not texting or contacting her, etc. except when I wanted to "hang out", and I think I got three or four bangs out of it before she moved on. It didn't seem like a particularly great value for the effort it took to start things with her

There's a difference between running comfort game and beta comfort.

Comfort game is her being comfortable around you enough to decide to have sex with you, have her come over and then finally have her get fucked by you.

The comfort you're bringing is pitching in on clothes, taking her out and about, shit like that doesn't help you claiming "I just want to be fuck buddies"

Quote:

I feel like I can have the mentality "I''m the prize, she should be chasing me and glad to get together anytime I wish" all I want, but if I follow these "rules" to the letter there's going to be little opportunity to demonstrate why she would want it (outside of showing up from time to time for sex, which she doesn't have any trouble getting elsewhere), and any girl who isn't completely fucked is going to quickly be asking herself what exactly the prize is.

The whole she should be chasing me is a bit of an LTR mindset. Getting a girl to bed and just having fun with it is to me, different.

Spinning plates for me has always been a straight up agreement from the beginning or she already knows the unmentioned score from the beginning.

For girls who catch feelings and want more, "I'm with you when I'm with you, and when I'm not, I'm not" - very straightforward way to check a girl.

Keep things sexual, light, and funny in the bedroom. It doesn't mean you can't have fun and have casual conversations. It's not literally get in, get out, wham bam thankyou ma'am.

BUT you aren't the boyfriend or Dr. Phil listening to her vent.

You're just in what bitches says, "In the moment."

Usually it's Text a day or morning of meet>comes over bangs after 9/10PM>chill for a bit> get sleepy and she leaves

I already know one of my plates absolutely adores me, she even brings me gifts ever so often, new lingerie, and baked goods - sooner or later she'll need to be cut. I made the mistake of taking her out with friends twice over the almost year I've known her. Not to mentions she found me in the city I was in on my birthday. She's also followed me and another friend on IG. Even though the sex is great, I know the feelings are on a boil and will boil over.

If you're banging girls that you've laid ground rules for, who have caught feelings, you need to cut them. It will only get more toxic from there on out. The girl will feel more spited and spited and it'll boil over. Don't waste either of your times.

Quote:

I think a poster above is correct, what I really am looking for is more along the lines of a LTR girl. The reason for the incongruity in my frame is that part of me is always trying to head in that direction with these girls, but another part of me (likely influenced by both this site, and some experiences) realizes that even though some of these girls have decent qualities, in general these online girls are fucking unsuitable for the purpose. I certainly don't want to LTR a girl who's essentially giving me a heads up on the "fuckbuddy rules" herself, like she's a member of this forum!

Absolutely it does sounds like you want an LTR, it bleeds through in your writing.

It's OK to want to have an LTR, some people aren't made out for the player/plate/fuck buddy life.

Remember, an LTR isn't necessary, it's more of a luxury, and you shouldn't need another person in your life to "complete" you.

It's not okay to beta supplicate in any relationship form.

It's rare but you can find a cool girl online ever so often, I made an LTR out of 2, granted they were Yin/Yang dating situations.

Online game should be supplemental or if you truly don't have any time on to number close in person.

[The Black Knight]

(07-27-2016 08:53 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

I think a poster above is correct, what I really am looking for is more along the lines of a LTR girl. The reason for the incongruity in my frame is that part of me is always trying to head in that direction with these girls, but another part of me (likely influenced by both this site, and some experiences) realizes that even though some of these girls have decent qualities, in general these online girls are fucking unsuitable for the purpose. I certainly don't want to LTR a girl who's essentially giving me a heads up on the "fuckbuddy rules" herself, like she's a member of this forum!

Just run mini-LTR game.

I like mini-LTR game because you can get the benefits of a LTR without the bullshit for several months. I enjoy doing stuff with chicks, going on trips, and getting into adventures. I like deeper connections and higher emotional highs.

But I never forget the big picture that this chick is essentially being interviewed for "exclusive" status at all times and there is a half-life on this sort of behavior because chicks can become very attached running this sort of game. You save mini-LTR game for the chicks with the better and more fun personalities obviously; not just any hoebag.

Treat a chick like you might go exclusive with her but she needs to prove herself, do LTR shit/hang out a bit more frequently and consistently (might want to limit meeting your friends/family though), keep a plate or two on the side to maintain abundance mentality/to avoid getting too soft, and enjoy the highs of an intense mini-relationship. The "proving" phase should take at least 2+ months. Never give a specific deadline. Always "at least X" amount of time.

I like saying 2-3 months because its a universally accepted reasonable window of time to vet somebody AND most women's value is used up in the first few months. The sex is fresh and you get to enjoy the high of new experiences, a new personality, fun adventures, etc. Ever notice how the best times with a chick are the first few months usually? Beyond the first few months, many women don't bring much else to the table and they are essentially depreciating assets while you on the other hand are likely a appreciating asset.

If she turns out to be legit, proves herself, and you ready (ready for me means this girl is a Mother of My Children candidate AND you are looking to start a family in 1-2 years): Give her exclusive LTR status and pay attention to see if she is consistent with her behavior/attitudes/beliefs and that they are aligned with the family lifestyle you want. If some chick is gonna have your kids potentially, you better be doing some intensive vetting.

If like 99% woman in the US she turns out not legit for whatever reason OR you don't want a family soon: just drag things out until she fades off or gives you the ultimatum to become exclusive.

Understand that it can be hard to convert these chicks to FWB status post-exclusivity denial since a lot of emotions are flying high; often on both ends. I have FWBs I have known and banged for years but any mini-LTR I had I pretty much don't talk to anymore. When these girls don't get the prize, it can really sting for a bit. You also run the risk of a girl trying to trap you with an unplanned kid if you continue to bang post-exclusivity denial. Just know that all good things must come to an end eventually and be willing to walk when needed.

For me, I never get into exclusive LTRs anymore. I'm in the US and I don't want kids right at the moment. Even if I did want kids, I almost never meet Mother of My Children types of women anyway. But I like having something with a bit more substance than a FWB sometimes. For that, the mini-LTR is the ticket.

[Travesty]

(07-27-2016 12:50 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

There is every reason in the world to avoid the 28+ set for anything remotely serious. I've actually seen how the sluttier the girl, the quicker they age. Taking massive amounts of cock has that affect.

Kills their self esteem and produces cortisol. More anti depression meds. More mimosa brunches.

[Travesty]

^^ This girl is a 6 slut Black Knight, this girl is just any hoebag. That is the point of this entire thread.

Mini-LTR game would be a joke in this scenario, buy maybe a good fucking lesson OP needs to endure pain from to actually change and stop typing walls of text.

[The Black Knight]

(07-27-2016 03:06 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

^^ This girl is a 6 slut Black Knight, this girl is just any hoebag. That is the point of this entire thread.

Mini-LTR game would be a joke in this scenario, buy maybe a good fucking lesson OP needs to endure pain from to actually change and stop typing walls of text.

I wasn't referring to this girl specifically. That ship has sailed.

Look at what I quoted by XP. I was referring to XP's desire to have something with a bit more substance while reconciling knowing the fact that most women are shit for actual exclusive LTR purposes.

I know that feeling and I have found from experience that mini-LTRs are a good way to deal with that desire if you have the right mindset and expectations.

[Travesty]

I believe you have 2-3 months from first bang to run Mini-LTR game. If you are experienced you should know after a few weeks of dates if a girl should be upgraded.

As I grow older I would advise any man of any age to not try to upgrade a fuck buddy category girl to a Mini-LTR one because you want more connection. That time energy and emotion will be wasted that could be used on becoming a better and more capable man.

Mini-LTRs in my mind should only be used on girls you see going with for the long haul.

Mini-LTRs can be big L's when they are used on the wrong girl.

If a guy chooses unwisely to practice this game on a girl that he knows he isn't long term with and goes beyond the 2-3 month mark there are nothing usually but bad outcomes:

1) Regret of wasted money and time when she brings up LTR
2) She tries to embarrass you or destroy some of your possessions out of spite
3) You get a beta backslide that limits your options in the near future due to having to waste time building yourself back up
4) You start disliking women and getting jaded because of all these antics and knowing you can do better, another waste of time, emotional investment to self heal, and maybe never self heal from getting jaded

5) The worst of all you could take another path: turn cold, not jaded, you take the sociopath move and cut her out 4-6 months in once things get messy like she never existed. This can lower your empathy for people in general and make it harder to connect to anyone as you can see people as disposable.

Bottom line:

After a few dates you have to make a choice is girl a fucky buddy or mini-LTR? She better pass a shitload of check marks to make it to the mini-LTR round. Most never do or come close. Once you go mini-LTR it is pretty much impossible to backtrack to fuck buddy status so choose *wisely and selectively*.

Jariel had a great naming convention for mini-LTRs that last too long with the wrong girl: Jumpoff Girls. Avoid them at all costs. It is ok to mistake a hoe for an LTR girl for a month or so and treat her like a mini-LTR for a bit until after the red flags come up then you need to get out quick! Never past the 2 month mark!

If she does amazingly become a mini-LTR you get a 2-3 month shot clock MAXIMUM before you need to cut her off gently and amicably before either or both people can get permanent emotional burns.

People don't like putting formulas on human relations, I swear though there is a scientific one on this kind.

*This doesn't pertain to long distance fuck buddies that you fly in and do mini-LTR stuff once every few months or years for a long weekend at a resort --- that is not a real mini-LTR it is a Fuck Buddy Vacation*

[The Black Knight]

(07-27-2016 03:24 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

I believe you have 2-3 months from first bang to run Mini-LTR game. If you are experienced you should know after a few weeks of dates if a girl should be upgraded.

As I grow older I would advise any man of any age to not try to upgrade a fuck buddy category girl to a Mini-LTR one because you want more connection. That time energy and emotion will be wasted that could be used on becoming a better and more capable man.

Mini-LTRs in my mind should only be used on girls you see going with for the long haul.

Mini-LTRs can be big L's when they are used on the wrong girl.

If a guy chooses unwisely to practice this game on a girl that he knows he isn't long term with and goes beyond the 2-3 month mark there are nothing usually but bad outcomes:

1) Regret of wasted money and time when she brings up LTR
2) She tries to embarrass you or destroy some of your possessions out of spite
3) You get a beta backslide that limits your options in the near future due to having to waste time building yourself back up
4) You start disliking women and getting jaded because of all these antics and knowing you can do better, another waste of time, emotional investment to self heal, and maybe never self heal from getting jaded

5) The worst of all you could take another path: turn cold, not jaded, you take the sociopath move and cut her out 4-6 months in once things get messy like she never existed. This can lower your empathy for people in general and make it harder to connect to anyone as you can see people as disposable.

Bottom line:

After a few dates you have to make a choice is girl a fucky buddy or mini-LTR? She better pass a shitload of check marks to make it to the mini-LTR round. Most never do or come close.

If she does amazingly become a mini-LTR you get a 2-3 month shot clock MAXIMUM before you need to cut her off gently and amicably before either or both people can get permanent emotional burns.

People don't like putting formulas on human relations, I swear though there is a scientific one on this kind.

I agree with the majority of this. All solid advice.

1. Mini-LTRs have a half-life of 2-3 months.

2. Know where a chick falls (FWB or mini-LTR) quickly. If you can't figure this out, your game sucks.

3. Mini-LTRs for me are usually high quality chicks (personality wise; its assumed they are good looking) who have a fatal flaw or two for exclusive LTR purposes; usually it comes up subtly over the 2-3 month mark. It's not something that's a huge deal in the greater context of things initially but you know how it ends if you stick around. Given the average quality of women in the US for LTR purposes (i.e. horrible), I don't mind taking a break from endless FWBs to do a mini-LTR (it's not like I'm gonna stop banging FWBs completely!); finding even mini-LTR grade women is pretty difficult as it is in the US. Given US market conditions, I'll enjoy the ride and for what it is when appropriate.

Roosh wrote an article on mini-relationships a long time ago for those interested by the way:

Roosh Wrote:

You’ll find real men increasingly use women for sex and light companionship for short time periods, between one to six months. When the cost of renting (of being the consistent hookup) becomes too high, and the woman demands that the man purchase her pussy in the form of a commitment, he will discard her and enter another mini-relationship. The player will only purchase the pussy when renting becomes too difficult, like happened to me in Ukraine, but even that was self-limiting as over time I became more knowledgeable of the local market.

[...]

Relationships have more to do with economics than love. If the price of your current pussy fluctuates out of your favor, turn in your rental to get a different pussy that gives more value. Have fun with your current pussy: go on a little trip with her, snuggle with her after stretching her out, let her cook for you, and then when maintenance costs rise, toss her aside for a newer model. America today is a renters market. As a matter of fact, I see a lot of used models in good condition coming onto the showroom floor right now

Source: http://www.rooshv.com/the-rise-of-the-mini-relationship

[XPQ22]

(07-27-2016 03:15 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

Look at what I quoted by XP. I was referring to XP's desire to have something with a bit more substance while reconciling knowing the fact that most women are shit for actual exclusive LTR purposes.

I know that feeling and I have found from experience that mini-LTRs are a good way to deal with that desire if you have the right mindset and expectations.

My dilemma when seeking LTRs with girls in the late 20s-early 30s age bracket that I appeal most, over the past year, seems to always be the same in the Northeast US: dash the dreams of a relatively pleasant "6", or endure the drama and misery of an entitled "7."

Both are painful. This isn't the right place for me.

Quote:

Remember, an LTR isn't necessary, it's more of a luxury, and you shouldn't need another person in your life to "complete" you.

It's true. I don't have a large social circle in this area...what I need is more real friends and connections. Not a plate to treat like my best friend.

Quote:

http://www.rooshv.com/the-rise-of-the-mini-relationship

Grim reading.

[Travesty]

(07-27-2016 06:06 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

US: dash the dreams of a relatively pleasant "6", or endure the drama and misery of an entitled "7."

This is the most concise explanation of the U.S. dating market and why guys want out.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(07-27-2016 06:06 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(07-27-2016 03:15 PM)The Black Knight Wrote:  

Look at what I quoted by XP. I was referring to XP's desire to have something with a bit more substance while reconciling knowing the fact that most women are shit for actual exclusive LTR purposes.

I know that feeling and I have found from experience that mini-LTRs are a good way to deal with that desire if you have the right mindset and expectations.

My dilemma when seeking LTRs with girls in the late 20s-early 30s age bracket that I appeal most, over the past year, seems to always be the same in the Northeast US: dash the dreams of a relatively pleasant "6", or endure the drama and misery of an entitled "7."

Both are painful. This isn't the right place for me.

Quote:

Remember, an LTR isn't necessary, it's more of a luxury, and you shouldn't need another person in your life to "complete" you.

It's true. I don't have a large social circle in this area...what I need is more real friends and connections. Not a plate to treat like my best friend.

Quote:

http://www.rooshv.com/the-rise-of-the-mini-relationship

Grim reading.

[XPQ22]

There's not a lot more to say, but I was reading the thread on gifts and I thought I should mention in my defense that the "clothing" I chipped in on was indeed slutty underwear.

So I feel like I wasn't entirely going in the wrong direction.

I admire your devotion, Red_Pillage, but I'm not sure I'm capable of the same level of cynicism. I don't think I'm wired for it, so I may always have one foot stuck in Neverland.

Still getting laid more than I ever was, though, and having fun doing it overall.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(07-27-2016 09:10 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

There's not a lot more to say, but I was reading the thread on gifts and I thought I should mention in my defense that the "clothing" I chipped in on was indeed slutty underwear.

So I feel like I wasn't entirely going in the wrong direction.

I admire your devotion, Red_Pillage, but I'm not sure I'm capable of the same level of cynicism. I don't think I'm wired for it, so I may always have one foot stuck in Neverland.

Still getting laid more than I ever was, though, and having fun doing it overall.

It's no fun, let me be the first to tell you. I don't want to be ultra cynical, believe me. But I have no choice. It's simply a reflection of the world I see around me.

I envy you, actually.

It sucks knowing what I know, but I can't unsee what I've seen. I can't un-experience life. It sucks knowing I will never meet a girl who is up to my standards, as my views are considered antiquated and less and less women in the west by the day bear any resemblance to what I consider to be "quality"

And they're proud of it.

It sucks having to continue to play a part in a game I don't enjoy, to get a road-worn prize that amounts to nothing but fleeting self-validation.

It sucks because I would like a real relationship, it sucks that it's just not in the cards.

I guess this is more of a Haters Lounge type post.

[Dr. Howard]

This thread is so good. Lots of great material.

I think Travesty's "you have 2 months to set the course of fuck buddy or LTR and then its done, you can't change it" is very true. Once you are on those rails, it is then not something that you should change. Changing it will result in insanity from the girl, or yourself. If you crave drama...go ahead, try to change it after the relationship course has been set.

It reminds me of this guy I went to university with, he was great at fuck buddy management...and this was 18 years ago, towards the dawn of the internet. He had this chicks we would call 'the midnight mistresses' that would literally come over between 12am and 2am, bang and then disappear. No one knew their names, he referred to them as "some girl" and then eventually "another midnight mistress" they never entered any aspect of his life besides his bedroom. It was incredible.