[XPQ22]

I was at my plate's apartment the other night. She's in her early 30s, and what I'd refer to as a "standard issue 6." A little heavier than some guys would go for, but cute face and nice long strawberry-blonde hair.

We met on one of the dating apps; she opened me first. So we were talking about some of the experiences we had. No, she's no saint, I know she got banged out by a few dudes from the site, and probably at least one in the first couple weeks we were dating.

The old trope is that a mentality shift comes over women as they hit their 30s and they go through the "epiphany phase" and start looking to settle down. Funny thing is that apparently a lot of guys have this mentality too, their own "marriage clock" starts ticking. And just like women, they start unicorn-hunting.

So in addition to the guys she nexted, she got nexted by a few guys as well. Some anti-game lines she recalls:

"You know, I dunno, I'm looking for something serious and I just don't know if I'm attracted to you enough and..." (before they even met)

"I mean I like you but I'm just really hung-up on my ex"

Was the latter case a pump and dump? Probably. But the fact is that a pump and dump that leaves a girl feeling bad is simply not good value for the effort. I want more out of life.

So I think a lot of these guys in their early to mid 30s are stuck hard in the "one" mentality. They bang a girl, spend a little time with her, decide for whatever reason she isn't "it", and move on to try to find their unicorn to wife up, whom if they ever did find her they'd fall all over themselves to revert to their beta ways as rapidly as possible.

Meanwhile I'm dating this girl and another girl. From time to time they go into the "So what are we?" talk and I let it remain ambiguous, or tease them, or otherwise deflect. It only happens rarely, because we have a good time together and they don't want to lose me. If you show a girl good value, deflecting that talk and ushering them into a non-monogamous lifestyle with you is really the simplest thing in the world.

I could've nexted this girl after the first time I banged her. I considered it, she's not a "7" by any stretch. But because I'm not constrained by the "square" mindset, I like to think I saw potential where the others did not. She's smart, cooks well, loves rough sex and being dominated in bed, and likes being given tasks to do to feel useful, aka "Kramerica" game as WIA put it. She's a professor, and her academic specialty (writing) has come in useful for my business and she's been willing to help out for nothing. Since we've started dating she's gotten back into working out, and has lost about ten pounds as well. Other guys are starting to check her out more.

She was a girl looking for a "program", but it seems she was having trouble finding someone to give her one.

Seeing her tonight, and then hopefully have a date lined up with a new girl tomorrow. I'll give her a day off - she deserves it.

If you're not running game (or at least trying to like me!), you're leaving solid pussy on the table, and both you and the girl-next-doors of the world are worse off for it. It's as simple as that.

[AboveAverageJoe]

Leaving pussy on the table is not neccessarily a bad thing. It's leaving pussy on the table without putting the lid back on which makes it turn bad.

[RatInTheWoods]

Nice one XP, leave them better than you found them is also the Ratties motto.

There are some gems amongst the 6s

[XPQ22]

(07-04-2016 07:07 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

Nice one XP, leave them better than you found them is also the Ratties motto.

There are some gems amongst the 6s

This stock photo looks a lot like the plate I'm talking about.

"I know I'll never be an Instagram model with thousands of followers, or the girl every 14 year old boy fantasizes about. But would you please give me a shot, sir? I feel I have a lot to offer. I like to stay home and read most of the time...you can stop by whenever you like."

Maybe I should start a hashtag fanclub. #teamloyalsix

[WestIndianArchie]

Such a lovely idea

But this message

" "I know I'll never be an Instagram model with thousands of followers, or the girl every 14 year old boy fantasizes about. But would you please give me a shot, sir? I feel I have a lot to offer. I like to stay home and read most of the time...you can stop by whenever you like."

Is for the Chad Thundercocks out there, not a guy who looks like a 6.

She's a bitch to guys on her level.

This 6 is passing up in the guy in her study group/at her job that looks like Seth Rogen that would treat her like a princess and be happy to do it.

And if a top guy falls for that shit, she's not going to stay in the pocket, but she's going to ask for more and more.

I can't think of a time where being sympathetic helped me to get what I want.

Patrice O'Neal has this great idea that
- if he's not happy, the relationship is off
- She doesn't need to be made happy because you can't make a woman happy

Agreeing to bind yourself to a woman because you feel sorry for her is sure way to be unhappy yourself.

Not saying that you should only talk to 8's and above. But don't let personality count when even these chicks will be whoever you want them to be to get what they want.

That's the design, not nefarious deception

WIA

[XPQ22]

(07-05-2016 12:01 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Is for the Chad Thundercocks out there, not a guy who looks like a 6.

She's a bitch to guys on her level.

This 6 is passing up in the guy in her study group/at her job that looks like Seth Rogen that would treat her like a princess and be happy to do it.

And if a top guy falls for that shit, she's not going to stay in the pocket, but she's going to ask for more and more.

I can't think of a time where being sympathetic helped me to get what I want.

Fair enough. It's uncanny that you should bring up Seth Rogen, as the Jewish girl I hooked up with on Sunday mentioned on the date "Anyone ever tell you that you kinda sound like Seth Rogen?"

That stung a bit. He does have much better hair than I do; I've been fighting the MPB battle for years now.

Realistically I am a "male 6" and a guy "on their level." But I like to think what differentiates me these days is that since I've been reading this site, I see no reason not to strike higher, and once you have even just a couple successes doing that, it's impossible for your mentality not to shift.

Even a girl like my main girl who resembles the librarian in the photo takes effort. Does she push? Absolutely she does. "Add me to your Facebook!" "Come drive me to see my (male) friend's concert!" "I want to meet your parents this weekend!" And if you don't give her what she wants, she's going to get pouty about it, absolutely.

When I was in college I would've bended over backwards to accommodate a girl like this. I did, once. All it finally got me was a nerdy girlfriend who ended up banging a semi-famous drummer with a tangential connection to Limp Bizkit after a year and a half, and eventually dumped me for a provider.

Codependency was how I was raised, and I have my parents to thank for that one. Since I was an only child, it took me a long time to figure out what they were all about.

Learning that there was nothing wrong with saying "No" from time to time was the best "relationship management" skill I ever learned.

Quote:

Patrice O'Neal has this great idea that
- if he's not happy, the relationship is off
- She doesn't need to be made happy because you can't make a woman happy

Agreeing to bind yourself to a woman because you feel sorry for her is sure way to be unhappy yourself.

Not saying that you should only talk to 8's and above. But don't let personality count when even these chicks will be whoever you want them to be to get what they want.

That's the design, not nefarious deception

WIA

I recall a while back that there was a post regarding a Reddit "relationships" situation where a guy was pissed that his wife-to-be had done anal with a Chad Thundercock and wouldn't with him, because it was "just about the sex, but you're great relationship material."

I'm pretty confident at this point that all young women over a certain age have at least one guy like that in their past. The girl I'm seeing does as well, they all do. She told me about "Steve" one time: "We were legitimate 'friends with benefits.' He was cheating on his girlfriend with me; he was the definition of a tortured genius."

"There are no 'tortured geniuses', babe. There are people who are doing things, and people who aren't doing things. And one person actually doing things is worth a thousand 'tortured geniuses'. This sounds like a whole heap of rationalization. "

This plate likes anal a lot - she's one of the best FWBs I've had. I like "8s" well enough too, but I'm still having trouble gaming them, or enjoying their company outside of the bedroom. The ones in the US at least just don't seem to read very much.

[Rush87]

Quote:

Meanwhile I'm dating this girl and another girl. From time to time they go into the "So what are we?" talk and I let it remain ambiguous, or tease them, or otherwise deflect.

I think you may find that women ultimately construct their own realities... While male logic dictates that 'ambiguous' responses to relationship questions will make it easy to break up in the future, IMO it's quite the opposite… You are dramatically increasing her feelings towards you by maintaining frame, and the longer the relationship goes, the more difficult the break up will be.

I know from countless experiences on my end… Breaking up with a girl you have strung along is almost always far more brutal for her, than the girls I've broken up with in my blue pill days.

[WestIndianArchie]

Plates have a shelf life. I set the frame early on, "this is what this is", and limit contact for both our sakes.

But social gravity pushes a girl to want to be with the best guy she knows. Great place or a pig sty, what chicks respond to are these great feelings that you bring out of her, sexual but usually otherwise.

That has been my experience and the experience of many others.

WIA

[AboveAverageJoe]

(07-05-2016 01:47 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

Fair enough. It's uncanny that you should bring up Seth Rogen, as the Jewish girl I hooked up with on Sunday mentioned on the date "Anyone ever tell you that you kinda sound like Seth Rogen?"

That stung a bit. He does have much better hair than I do; I've been fighting the MPB battle for years now.

All it finally got me was a nerdy girlfriend who ended up banging a semi-famous drummer with a tangential connection to Limp Bizkit after a year and a half, and eventually dumped me for a provider.

At least she din't say you looked like Seth Rogen, that wound would have left a scar. If suffering from MPB, just shave it all the way off. It is almost always a better look, definitely better than Rogen's Jewfro. In his defense I noticed he and Jonah Hill, I always get them confused, have slimmed down recently. They realized, I am sure, that their fame is still not enough to overcome the fact that women will always prefer athletic bodies over Dad-bods, regardless of what they say.

As far as Limp Bizshit goes, I am not sure even they qualify as semi-famous anymore. More like reality TV or Youtube celebrity level fame. They had a short run near the bottom rung of fame but that band was, if anything, an amalgamation of talentless douchebags with zero musical ability or charisma. They are only surpassed in their complete buffoonery by Insane Clown Posse who, to this day, are still getting rich off of their sad, socially retarded, tone deaf fans.

[Avon Barksdale]

As Jariel said "pity and game don't mix"

[DJ-Matt]

Don't waste time with non-virgin unicorn girls if you want a stable LTR, remember the chart? More than 2 partners and they're broken, you can't fix that.

[XPQ22]

(07-06-2016 01:40 AM)Rush87 Wrote:  

I know from countless experiences on my end… Breaking up with a girl you have strung along is almost always far more brutal for her, than the girls I've broken up with in my blue pill days.

It's a hard truth, but it's one that I understand I'll to accept. Hurting people has never come easy to me.

(07-06-2016 06:53 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Plates have a shelf life. I set the frame early on, "this is what this is", and limit contact for both our sakes.

In some sense "tortured genius" Steve Hardcock had it better than me. Plate knew he was banging another girl right off the bat, and so he set the "this is just about the sex" frame early on. She's happy to refer to him as "the best FWB I've ever had" pretty much without him lifting a finger. I'm sure he was no genius, but her mindset going in that he wasn't relationship material due to his "issues", and when that dude decided to next her (as I'm sure he eventually did) she's not going to be pining over him, she's just going to roll her eyes and laugh to herself "Ugh, how typical, Steve."

Meanwhile I'm the guy who goes in with a "SMV" at least one point above her, fairly emotionally stable, and have actually accomplished things in life, other than being tortured, or experimenting with meth. So naturally I have to work like a bastard to keep up the FWB frame, and when the day comes that I next her as well, it'll be me she's tearing up over and trying to start drama with, not big-dicked Steve (he apparently did have a big dick.)

For the moment it's been a mostly enjoyable relationship. But I have to recognize that due to my inexperience in "plate management" I didn't set the frame properly going in, and so in some sense I'm always going to be fighting a battle that ideally should've been won out the gate.

(07-06-2016 08:00 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

At least she din't say you looked like Seth Rogen, that wound would have left a scar. If suffering from MPB, just shave it all the way off. It is almost always a better look, definitely better than Rogen's Jewfro. In his defense I noticed he and Jonah Hill, I always get them confused, have slimmed down recently. They realized, I am sure, that their fame is still not enough to overcome the fact that women will always prefer athletic bodies over Dad-bods, regardless of what they say.

I usually keep it buzzed with 1 or 2 guard, not shaved all the way off. I've done pretty good balding and fit, but balding and fat would be a non-starter.

A girl once said I looked like a young Pete Townshend, which I thought was okay. A comparison to Seth Rogen would've been grounds to walk, I'd say.

Quote:

As far as Limp Bizshit goes, I am not sure even they qualify as semi-famous anymore. More like reality TV or Youtube celebrity level fame. They had a short run near the bottom rung of fame but that band was, if anything, an amalgamation of talentless douchebags with zero musical ability or charisma. They are only surpassed in their complete buffoonery by Insane Clown Posse who, to this day, are still getting rich off of their sad, socially retarded, tone deaf fans.

There's so much good music out there these days, it's always a wonder to me why anyone would chose to listen to shit, or that LB somehow managed to hang on as long as they did.

I believe the guy my college GF hoed around with basically just knew Wes Borland tangentially somehow and maybe gigged with him way back in the dark ages of the mid 1990s. From what little I know Wes seemed like the most talented of the group; it seemed a lot like he was just using that gig for a paycheck so he could have the freedom to work on other stuff that he liked more, but knew would never sell.

He was a drummer, though, so with that handicap looking back I feel I do have to game recognize.

I was thinking about this post today and I thought that the best way to express what I was getting at is the following engineering anecdote: "Better is the enemy of good." I feel like there's a time value to relationships, just like there's a time value to money. For guys just starting out (like I really still am, I've only been visiting this site for about a year) I think it's unrealistic that one is going to be pulling "8s" for mini-relationships right off the bat.

Sort of like how I know people who say "Why should I buy a computer/car this month? I hear they're coming out with a better model six months from now and..." The point is that if you buy it now, you have it now and you can start working with it now, and gaining experience now, not six months from now. That's sort of how I feel about this girl - she wanted to put her bid in with me, she was attractive and pleasant enough, I could've declined and kept approaching, kept hoping for the "8" who was feeling it to end up in the queue. It might have happened the very next day after I nexted the "6." Or it might've taken nine months. There's no guarantee, particularly in a game-averse area like the one I live in. But of course, then the danger is that you become comfortable. Engineers also know that there's no free lunch.

By not leaving it on the table, though, I feel I've gained relationship skills, and that we've both had enjoyable experiences that we wouldn't have had otherwise had I not. Life is short, and to paraphrase Tolkien - "you have to decide what to do with the time that is given to you."

[Rhyme or Reason]

(07-06-2016 08:00 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

They had a short run near the bottom rung of fame but that band was, if anything, an amalgamation of talentless douchebags with zero musical ability or charisma. They are only surpassed in their complete buffoonery by Insane Clown Posse who, to this day, are still getting rich off of their sad, socially retarded, tone deaf fans.

They are talentless hacks, but to say they occupied the bottom rung of fame in their heyday is simply not true. In 2001 they were one of the most popular bands out there and Fred Durst was every bitches wet dream. I know it seems retarded but it was true.

(07-05-2016 01:47 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

"There are no 'tortured geniuses', babe. There are people who are doing things, and people who aren't doing things. And one person actually doing things is worth a thousand 'tortured geniuses'. This sounds like a whole heap of rationalization. "

I'm curious how she responded to that. This would either:

send her hamster into a tailspin or

Telegraph insecurity. In my experience when I've said shit like this the girl never responds in the way a guy would, ie "Wow you're totally right, he was just a faker and you're so much smarter, babe"

In reality she sees you dick measuring against the last guy she was fucking and it pings her beta radar.


Edit: I'm not sure where you get the idea that being a drummer in a band is somehow a handicap...look at Tommy Lee and Travis Barker.

[WestIndianArchie]

Fair enough. It's uncanny that you should bring up Seth Rogen, as the Jewish girl I hooked up with on Sunday mentioned on the date "Anyone ever tell you that you kinda sound like Seth Rogen?"

That stung a bit. He does have much better hair than I do; I've been fighting the MPB battle for years now.

Shave it.

Realistically I am a "male 6" and a guy "on their level." But I like to think what differentiates me these days is that since I've been reading this site, I see no reason not to strike higher, and once you have even just a couple successes doing that, it's impossible for your mentality not to shift.

Realistically, you're a 10. Reading RVF will show you some of the way, but the core of game is making the chick react to you, getting her to feel. Taking her out of her head, stopping her from thinking, dropping her into a vat of emotion.

People don't like to think, girls especially. People are lazy, girls too. They don't want responsibility or accountability. Pleasure and ease. (Most guys want unthinking and automatic game. Most player gurus want their students out of their heads. )

Lamont Mandingo and Hung Wei Lo are all avatars, images, concepts. If she is with this mythical creature she too will be mythical. The reverse is true as well, but a man needs to bang a bunch of visual 9's and 10's in order to get over the high of achievement.

The trick to game is that I can make a girl feel like that, and that ability is unrelated to all the external features of the avatar.

[quote='XPQ22' pid='1340345' dateline='1467744449']

Learning that there was nothing wrong with saying "No" from time to time was the best "relationship management" skill I ever learned.

[quote]

Best tools you have in a relationship
- don't give her your approval (say no)
- be willing ready and able to walk

I've found myself without those tools at times, and things end in calamity.

Scarcity is a weird thing. When you're out there bagging and tagging, your pimp game is on 10. Chick don't want to act right? Peace.

But you find one that really taps into your manly and natural desires - that's not the same thing as a triple D size bra. When something happens in your life and she's the person you want to share it with.

That's still a scarcity mindset, believe it or not. You can have that with other girls. Realizing that and you're one step closer to Zen.

WIA

[XPQ22]

(07-06-2016 11:15 AM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

(07-05-2016 01:47 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

"There are no 'tortured geniuses', babe. There are people who are doing things, and people who aren't doing things. And one person actually doing things is worth a thousand 'tortured geniuses'. This sounds like a whole heap of rationalization. "

I'm curious how she responded to that. This would either:

send her hamster into a tailspin or

Telegraph insecurity. In my experience when I've said shit like this the girl never responds in the way a guy would, ie "Wow you're totally right, he was just a faker and you're so much smarter, babe"

In reality she sees you dick measuring against the last guy she was fucking and it pings her beta radar.

Well yeah, we know a woman is never going to actually AGREE with you. When the subject of how cool past lays were comes up with a girl, I figure there are only a few options you can take:

a) get defensive and say you don't want to hear about it

b) willing to listen to her wax poetical, but tease her about him

c) ignore, game on

Option A is not a great option, so that leaves B and C. I chose B. I wouldn't say it put her hamster into a tailspin, but it did seem to kick the rationalization hamster up a notch and put her on the defensive, as she replied something like:

"Yeah, but he really WAS a genius."

"I see..."

Like many introverted girls, she often plays her cards close to her chest and can be hard to read...she's not much of a talker, particularly in social situations. Her favorite nonverbal response is the "grin, sigh, and eye-roll" which I've found can either mean "you're legitimately being lame" or "I am so fucking turned on right now."

Quote:

Edit: I'm not sure where you get the idea that being a drummer in a band is somehow a handicap...look at Tommy Lee and Travis Barker.

At that level I'm sure everyone involved is getting pretty much as much action as anyone else in the band: a lot. At the local fame level, the old joke is that there's a hierarchy:



Most everyone in the band is still doing better than about 90% of guys, though. Except the poor bassist and synth player.

[Rhyme or Reason]

I'd probably go with option C...I sure as hell am not gonna listen to her go on about her sexual escapades while nodding and listening intently. However the reason I snipped out that quote is because it seems like saying that to her is putting her in a position where she is on your level...in other words you're elevating her status by speaking to her in frank terms. "I will explain to you why your previous fuck buddy is inferior using logic, and you will then understand because you and I are on the same level intellectually."


Not the case.

She's (subconsciously) thinking "What's he trying to prove / why is he talking to me like I'm smart?"

I know, you've talked before about wanting a smart girl or whatever, I'm just trying to show you how it looks from the perspective of her hind brain.

Edit: I lol'd at the graphic. The instrument one plays in band has little to do with the amount of pussy one gets...it's all about stage presence, confidence, and the popularity of each member. I'm thinking of dropping a data sheet on this since there's so much misinformation on the topic on the forum. People asking "which instrument should I play" are looking at it all wrong.

[Albatross]

What do you mean by "plate" ?

[AboveAverageJoe]

(07-06-2016 11:54 AM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

[quote='XPQ22' pid='1340345' dateline='1467744449']

[quote]Quote:

Edit: I'm not sure where you get the idea that being a drummer in a band is somehow a handicap...look at Tommy Lee and Travis Barker.

At that level I'm sure everyone involved is getting pretty much as much action as anyone else in the band: a lot. At the local fame level, the old joke is that there's a hierarchy:



Most everyone in the band is still doing better than about 90% of guys, though. Except the poor bassist and synth player.

Hey I fucking slayed as the drummer. Chicks love the muscularity and athleticism of it. Your usually the only one with your shirt off sweating too. But normally the man with the mic gets the play simply because of being the center of attention rather than a member of a backing ensemble. I got way better tail as the drummer than everyone and at one point the guitar and bass player were actually dating chicks I had pumped and dumped. I had the advantage of being much younger, better looking and more athletic than those guys though. The lead singer stayed in pussy but he had no standards, not a fucking one. It was disgusting. He would fuck 60 year old white ladies like he was still in Jamaica.

[XPQ22]

(07-06-2016 12:15 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

I'd probably go with option C...I sure as hell am not gonna listen to her go on about her sexual escapades while nodding and listening intently. However the reason I snipped out that quote is because it seems like saying that to her is putting her in a position where she is on your level...in other words you're elevating her status by speaking to her in frank terms. "I will explain to you why your previous fuck buddy is inferior using logic, and you will then understand because you and I are on the same level intellectually."

I think I gotta admit to you that you may be right after all. Saw this girl again tonight for the first time since that evening - she picked me up at work and drove me to her place. She seemed horny most of the day, she was texting me how she wanted me to take her reverse cowgirl and stuff, shit we haven't done before.

I get there and everything seems to go as normal as seemingly a hundred times before...she made me food, start watching a movie, start making out on the couch and then bounce to her bedroom. Little did I know drama was waiting for me. We have our clothes off and things seem to be going well, but I go to finger her and notice that she's bone dry. She immediately goes ice cold and draws away and begins head-turning and rejecting kisses like it's a bad first date.

"Something the matter?"

"You know, I'm just like...kinda not into it tonight."

"Ah, I see."

She snuggles up to me and is like "Just wanna cuddle and not do stuff tonight."

I brush it off and try to just treat it like a weird recurrence of LMR, pull back and chat with her a bit and try again a bit later with the same result.
I get up and put my clothes on to use the bathroom (she lives with a roommate.) I come back and she's naked in bed looking bored, texting on her phone and half falling asleep.

I say "I thought you might have had something on your mind, but you seem tired right now and not into talking. That's okay. Get some rest, and you can talk to me later if you want" as I head for the door. She immediately bolts up in what I'd describe as the closest I've seen her to panic, and says "WHAT?! But I drove you here! How are you going to get home?" I smile and say "I'll be okay, I'm pretty sure I can figure something out."

Head down the stairs as she starts throwing on her clothes like mad and chases me out. "No, wait, it's okay. I'll drive you home. Don't call an Uber."

After a few minutes of silence in the car she says "You know there really wasn't anything on my mind! I just wasn't feeling into it tonight. Do we really have to have sex every time we see each other? We have sex a lot." I just shrug and am like "Is there anything wrong with having sex a lot?" She says "Well, I mean no..."

A couple minutes later she says "But yeah, I guess there actually was something on my mind" and follows it up with the "why ain't we monogamous" talk. I'd kind of thought my brush-offs had finally finished that off; apparently not. So I'm irked and I figure given how dry she was that she may already be losing attraction to me, so I pretty much just give it to her straight, fuck it: "I won't lie to you I probably can't give you that, I enjoy the time I spend with you though, etc."

She doesn't seem particularly perturbed by this. "I guess that's an okay explanation as far as it goes, but you know it's hard when a woman feels attached and is afraid there'll be some other girl and..." and I say "Why are you afraid of that? That could happen to anyone at any point as I know it's happened to you. Then they've both cheated AND lied to you." She laughs and says "But...that's just the way it IS!"

Then she tries to run some sad "dread game" on me: "You know, we get along really well and I'm just not sure there are very many women at all out there who could put up with a guy like you the way I can."

"Mhmm, maybe."

"If my friend Sally Monogamous knew what our 'relationship' was like, she'd probably tell me to dump you! Heh! Yeah, I did the whole 'FWB' thing once. But it was only because I was at a bad place in my life."

Anyway, she dropped me off and we didn't part angry. She texted me to make sure I got in okay.

Overall this girl has given me very little drama, but tonight was one of the most intense manifestations of it so far. I don't really wish to next her, but I recognize I kind of fucked it up going in by treating her way too much like my monogamous girlfriend, and I'm not sure there's a way to recover at this point. Right now I think I'll simply fall back on the default gameplan: do nothing/soft next, and see if she pops up again to hit me up.

Cuz the fucked up thing is that for all that...I bet she's banging another dude. Who she doesn't like quite as much, but is more willing to sign on the line.

[XPQ22]

Something occurred to me a little after I wrote the above post that I have to consider. It'd been lurking under the surface for a while, but I didn't want to acknowledge it, because I thought I was smarter than that...but for some reason tonight's drama flareup brought it to the surface.

I think it's possible that this girl is on the BPD spectrum. I realize that while she knows a fair amount about me by this point, I really know very little about her or her past. She never mentions her relationship with her parents, except in abstract terms. I know they likely exist, I saw a picture of what she said was them one time and she claims to visit them every so often, but other than that she doesn't talk about them. Never once has she taken a call from them when I've been around, or sent them a text message, or mentioned them in a positive way: "So my dad was telling me the other day, he's so funny..."

I do believe most of what I said in my first post, but as I look at it again I think that it feels like this girl has just been too accommodating. And tonight when she dropped the "You know I'm not sure there are many women who could put up with you" line on me I realized: she actually feels the same way, i.e she understands that she's being manipulative.

Whether this is just normal girl behavior, or getting into pathological territory, I can't say for sure. But I think I have to recognize that even the fact that I'm wasting so many lines of text on her in this thread means that a next should probably be in the near future.

I legitimately did think I was a smarter player than to get tangled up in this shit. Fascinating.

[WestIndianArchie]

I don't see much that is nefarious about the encounter. That's standard female behavior, every last word of it.

Keep in mind that I'm the guy that will post the sociopath/anti social disorder test and continue to argue that average women tick off the majority of the boxes. When a man acts out like women are known to do, he'll get labeled. A woman escapes consequence for her anti-social actions.

All that to say that BPD concerns are typically overblown because few women agree to the social contract...And because they stand to gain from it, will enforce the contract against you.

The argument about game is that rules apply to betas to keep them in place, but not to alphas nor women.

I think you played the initial sequence correctly for the most part. But the real damage is how you're framing the events in your mind.

From the start, you shouldn't think this girl is BPD because she is manipulative.

She's manipulative because she is a woman.

Her lack of physical strength, emotional stability, and a lifetime of having others do things for her is why she does the things that she does. That's why when a woman has a question she asks someone else and not Google.

Her wanting to be exclusive is what you expect from a girl taking the D. Not that she is actually going to pledge her life to you, but she wants to circumscribe your freedom to make her feel secure.

She will promise the same, but that promise is secretly conditional on whether or not you keep feeding her the emotions that she needs.

Expect a woman to be a woman. After a while you'll never be surprised.

And for you new players, put a price on giving up your freedom. Her face and beauty and hot sex are not enough for you to give up your freedom when that offer is available from the other 3.5 billion women on earth.

Something else needs to be on the table, and demonstrated repeatedly. As a man, you need to find what else you value from a woman.

WIA

[Rhyme or Reason]

WIA said it, this is standard issue. The BPD hype around here can get to be a bit much, and like WIA said it's a tough distinction to make since all women act like that. From my perspective, she likes you, but shes one fucked up ho, like the rest of 'em.

As far as the "I'm the only one who will put up with you" line, I've heard it before in many different incarnations, she's tipped her hand, she is trying to use negative reinforcement to keep you from straying because that is likely the tactics used on her by others in the past...it's a shit strategy, and all I hear is "please don't leave me / fuck someone else"

It's always hilarious when women try to use shaming tactics on men...it won't work if the guy is even REMOTELY alpha.

Quote:

I get there and everything seems to go as normal as seemingly a hundred times before...she made me food, start watching a movie, start making out on the couch and then bounce to her bedroom. Little did I know drama was waiting for me. We have our clothes off and things seem to be going well, but I go to finger her and notice that she's bone dry. She immediately goes ice cold and draws away and begins head-turning and rejecting kisses like it's a bad first date.

She premeditated this. Using sex as a weapon. Only she's not very good at it since she caved and "told you what was wrong". Best defense is to not take the bait and if she does it again you know what to expect.

when wia said

Quote:

She's manipulative because she is a woman.

This is what you gotta get through your head. Stop thinking "the one" is around the corner.

[XPQ22]

^ Thank you for the reality check. I knew one girl I know was legit BPD. That was simply straight up insanity...stalking, always texting me to ask what I was doing, and later, screaming phone calls at all hours and so on. This girl isn't ticking that box at least, so it's a bit comforting to hear that this is more likely standard "girl behavior" in medium to long term relationships, which I've had little experience with lately.

The sticking point is this: we get along well, but I finally don't trust her (is that even possible?) when she says "You know I haven't seen anyone else in several months and I think it's the right time to talk about whether we should be more serious..."

She also told me a while back "I'm not using dating sites anymore" but later she let me use her laptop, and I notice that one of the sites is in her recent browser history. She may have disabled her account, but I'm pretty sure she was hitting up the site to check things out for one reason or another. So I know she hasn't been entirely truthful about one thing. There have been other little things, like she'll sometimes bring up what she thinks is a previous conversation we've had, but I know we never talked about the subject.

Oh, and the big one: she texted me a while back apropos of nothing to mention "Ow! I got bruised moving all that furniture. I have to be more careful" She knew I'd notice and maybe wonder. Plausible story...if I knew she wasn't into kink. Some girls do bruise easily from everything...I've had enough bedroom experience with her to know she doesn't bruise easily.

So she's asking this from me, saying essentially that she's been a "good girl" (like not banging a bunch of other guys on the side while we've been seeing each other twice a week is some fantastic accomplishment worthy of commitment), and I'm hearing the words, but something in my gut is telling me she's straight up lying. I have to recognize that feeling.

Quote:

And for you new players, put a price on giving up your freedom. Her face and beauty and hot sex are not enough for you to give up your freedom when that offer is available from the other 3.5 billion women on earth.

Perhaps I was fooling myself. When I try to apply more critical thinking, I realize that maybe there's not much on the table here.

And I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if after last night I never hear from her again.

[XPQ22]

(07-13-2016 10:51 AM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

WIA said it, this is standard issue. The BPD hype around here can get to be a bit much, and like WIA said it's a tough distinction to make since all women act like that. From my perspective, she likes you, but shes one fucked up ho, like the rest of 'em.

Hey, just wanted to thank you guys again for the reality check. I got burned by a BPD once and have been on high alert ever since.

I let this girl stew for a while, and she eventually did hit me up again. She said she wanted to meet up for drinks and to "talk", and she was calm about it, so I said why not. Just got together, let her vent about shit for a while, I mostly just listened but was firm that I wasn't going to sign on for the kind of cohabitating "this could be forever!" type of monogamous relationship she wanted, and if that was a deal-breaker for us to keep seeing each other, that we could be friends with no hard feelings. "Blah, ugh, you're so stubborn, I don't get it. what EVER"

Then we made out in my car a bit, and I dropped her home. She texted me that she's free this weekend and would like to see me again.

I think I need to recognize as WIA and you said, that this is just standard "girl game" behavior for when you're trying to keep a FWB relationship going with a girl who likes you beyond a month or two and you're not signing on the line.

She's going to do a bit of "dread game." "Oh, Steve was so good, best FWB I ever had." "I saw a guy with a cute ass the other day." "I gotta run, I'm waiting for a phone call from a friend." "Where did that scrape come from? Teehee..."

Its finally just "Offer expires soon! Act fast!" sales tactics and who knows if any of it's true. If I want to have this type of relationship, I have to get better at choosing option C) above and recognizing this as a cost of doing business.

[WestIndianArchie]

Lot of guys will get into score keeping with particular chicks. If you find yourself in that position, trying to play tat for tit, the mere act of involving yourself in that mental calculus is her pushing her frame of reality into yours. The player isn't aloof because he's trying to get her to react, he's aloof because this particular source of pussy isn't a priority.