[OGNorCal707]

In the pic dude kinda looks like he's got HIV.

[speakeasy]

(07-29-2011 11:42 AM)houston Wrote:  

Well, he is the same guy that said boxing is dead. It might not be as popular but it won't ever die. I wouldn't be surprised if that ufc shit died down in the near future.

I already feel like MMA is losing some steam. Great sport in an of itself, but the whole Affliction/douchebag culture surrounding it weighs down the appeal and makes me wary of attending any live events.

[thegmanifesto]

(07-29-2011 04:17 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  

(07-29-2011 11:42 AM)houston Wrote:  

Well, he is the same guy that said boxing is dead. It might not be as popular but it won't ever die. I wouldn't be surprised if that ufc shit died down in the near future.

I already feel like MMA is losing some steam. Great sport in an of itself, but the whole Affliction/douchebag culture surrounding it weighs down the appeal and makes me wary of attending any live events.

I like MMA in its purest sense of course, and have been watching since UFC 1.

Lately, I haven't had time for it. And the "culture" of MMA is beyond horrific.

The thing that seems strange about MMA is the lack of personality the fighters have.

Sure that Rampage Jackson guy is funny, but the rest of them have personalities like a styrofoam cup (I actually think this is true of all sports outside of boxing).

Boxers for whatever reason are way more compelling.

Take a look at a guy like Pac-man.

He went from selling cigarettes in the streets as a barefoot kid to becoming the most important person in his home country. Hell, even guerrillas in the jungles of Phil stop fighting when he boxes.

Now that's G.

Wake me when someone from MMA does something similar.

-----

Ug -

"It directly followed most "exciting thing to ever happen in boxing"."

I think this is kind of a stretch.

Was Tyson "exciting" to watch? Sure.

"the most"? I can't really back you on that.

He never really had any "exciting" fights.

The two Holyfield fights and the Buster Douglas fights were probably his most exciting.

I invite you to watch Hagler-Hearns, the Gatti-Ward Trilogy ( http://www.thegmanifesto.com/2008/10/art...video.html ) Graziano-Zale Trilogy, Marco Antonio Barrera-Erik Morales trilogy, Duran-Leonard I or Ali-Frazier I or III to name a few.

Then tell me if you feel the same way.

[OGNorCal707]

Not to hijack this thread, but G what do you think of Amir Khan? This kid really impresses me, I watched the Zab Judah fight, and Khan dominated the whole time. I'm especially a fan because I like Pac-man, and as you probably know Khan's got the same team with Freddy Roach and Alex Ariza. Khan kinda like Pacquiao has that humble warrior air to him. I think once Pac-man and Mayweather retire, the welterweight will be all Khan's.

[Dash Global]

boxing is almost dead imo.

only one fight that is truly a block buster and that fight will prob never even happen.....

UFC has taken over and I dont see it going anywhere anytime soon.

[Giovonny]

Ali vs Tyson is one of my favorite debates. Its always tough to compare athletes from different eras. My current position is something that I heard from a 80yo boxing trainer.

Ali would have beaten Tyson because Ali had better "character". Ali had slighter better internal motivation, focus, and mental toughness. When things got tough, Mike was more likely to quit.

Muhammad also had a huge reach advantage. And, he knew how to use it against smaller, hard punching opponents. But, who knows?

Ali fought a guy who was similar to Tyson, Joe Frazier. He beat him 2 out of 3 but it took everything Ali had to finish Frazier. Based on those 3 fights, I think you have to admit that Tyson-Ali would be a good, competitive fight.

I love Tyson and I think he could beat Ali....If, Cus D'Amato would have lived another 5-10 years.

Cus was the only one who could control Mike. He died when Mike was 19 or 20 and that, I think, is what stopped him from being great. I think would have beaten Holyfield and been considered the greatest ever. But he couldn't quite keep it together.

P.S. They were both notorious womanizers.

[Vitriol]

It looks like the 2009 documentary about Tyson is on youtube.

part 1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0XJDwEDeos

part 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-pdnOzjldg&NR=1

part 3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM1BgWH_R6A&NR=1

etc.

[speakeasy]

(07-29-2011 04:25 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

He went from selling cigarettes in the streets as a barefoot kid to becoming the most important person in his home country. Hell, even guerrillas in the jungles of Phil stop fighting when he boxes.

Now that's G.

Wake me when someone from MMA does something similar.

For the minute or two Kimbo Slice was in the UFC, he was pretty damn fun to watch. He had a helluva cult following on youtube before Dana White cut him a break. He was the only thing that made me watch The Ultimate Fighter and I had a lot more respect for the guy after going through that show. Obviously he couldn't hang with top level competition, but who couldn't love the guy and cheer him on.


Edit - Don't think for a second I'm comparing Kimbo and Pac. Just saying Kimbo comes from a pretty interesting background of having nothing and boxing in streets for money just to eat. Last I heard he was supposed to be fighting pro in Japan.

[zanetti]

(07-27-2011 08:25 PM)kerouac Wrote:  

I think he switched to the vegan diet. For some reason certain people who switch to that diet turn into nothing but skin and bones.

yeah bill clinton is on that diet too. saw an interview with him recently; not much left of him. Said he was proud to be at the same weight he was when he was in high school

i wonder if his diet helped him with his fat chick fetish as well

[theIVth]

(07-27-2011 08:27 PM)UgSlayer Wrote:  

Boxing is dying anyway. Tyson was the most exciting thing to happen to boxing ever. Better than Ali.

You are delusional if you think Tyson was better than Ali

[FilMor]

(07-29-2011 10:43 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(07-29-2011 10:41 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"Tyson was the most exciting thing to happen to boxing ever. Better than Ali."

False.

Ali was the most recognizable man on the planet and greatest sportsman of the last century.

Tyson wasn't even the best of his generation.

Holyfield was.

Yea but Mike was more exciting to watch than Holyfield. He filled seats.

Of course, put me against cab drivers and I will also make a fight exciting, Tyson is one of the most overrated boxers of all time, sure you can look good fighting in the inside against a fighter with no jab.

Holyfield fought everyone.... when Holyfield was fighting Riddick Bowe Tyson was fighting the Donovan Ruddocks of this world.

[afronoob]

(08-03-2011 09:30 PM)FilMor Wrote:  

(07-29-2011 10:43 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(07-29-2011 10:41 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"Tyson was the most exciting thing to happen to boxing ever. Better than Ali."

False.

Ali was the most recognizable man on the planet and greatest sportsman of the last century.

Tyson wasn't even the best of his generation.

Holyfield was.

Yea but Mike was more exciting to watch than Holyfield. He filled seats.

Of course, put me against cab drivers and I will also make a fight exciting, Tyson is one of the most overrated boxers of all time, sure you can look good fighting in the inside against a fighter with no jab.

Holyfield fought everyone.... when Holyfield was fighting Riddick Bowe Tyson was fighting the Donovan Ruddocks of this world.

Before we say anything about Tyson,we need to be specific on which era. IMHO the D'amato period Tyson was the undoubtedly the best. In the mid 80s he moved his head while landing (HARD!) and the other guy would miss while absorbing grenades and just give up. After a few years he forgot or unlearned the technique and became sloppy.
At this time he was demolishing Spinks/Holmes et al easily. But,Ali with his ring mastery could still have taken him.

[amphibious ox]

lol i'll never forget almost walking right into him as i left the supermarket and he was walkin outta "petpros"..."HOLY SHIT!..ITS THE CHAMP!"

[Baldwin81]

I'm 30 and for as long as I've been alive boxing has been on life support...

to white folks that never watch it. AKA the mainstream media.

[Timoteo]

Mike was destroyed by the Don King/Robin Givens/Ruth Roper takeover. He was always that insecure, troubled kid from Brooklyn. The D'Amato/Jacobs/Cayton/Jose Torres team cared about Mike, but also kept him focused if not totally out of trouble (Mike ran a little wild up in Catskill and the Capitol District area in upstate NY, but for the most part they kept him focused and fighting). D'Amato was an amazing teacher (he taught Mike where to hit a guy for maximum effect), and they basically had him fighting at least once a month (I believe once he fought twice in the space of a week, because he was knocking most of those bums out in a round or so). Basically, instead of sparring in the gym, they had him in actual fights learning. Mike was beautiful, built perfectly for what he did. He was short, but still fought out of a crouch. He was quick, employed outstanding head movement, and worked from the body up. D'Amato demanded he start EVERY combination to the body first. He had incredible natural power. Kevin Rooney stayed in Mike's face, pushing him. Unfortunately, when first D'Amato died, then Jacobs, King found his opening. He pushed Cayton out, and King/Givens/Roper went to work on the insecure Mike. There were yes men around him now. There was no more structure or focus in the gym. Mike became a stand-up-straight headhunter, relying just on power. Gone was the crouch and head movement (making him hittable, but he had a good chin despite what happened later). When Mike went to Japan, he only had a couple of inexperienced cornermen that didn't know what they were doing. He wasn't prepared, because they figured he'd just walk through Douglas. Unfortunately, they caught a motivated Buster (his mom had just died, and he fought like he didn't give a fuck). Even with all that, Mike STILL almost knocked him out. The Mike Tyson that was getting knocked out by bums had already quit. He didn't want to fight anymore, but didn't know what else to do. He could have been among the best EVER (there was a time when I thought he was unbeatable). At his best, he walks through Lennox Lewis (couldn't handle real pressure, and his chin was PAPER). As much respect as I have for Evander Holyfield, he wasn't a real heavyweight. Because of his conditioning and heart, he outhustled most heavys, but didn't have the punch to really hurt bigger or stronger heavyweights. And he was very hittable. Mike walks through him too at his best. I ache for what Tyson could have been. His fights became such events - even though you knew it was pretty much going to end quickly. There were few figures that were more compelling. I loved his throwback approach. Black trunks, black shoes, no socks, no robe. Just a towel with a hole cut in it to put his head through.

The Tyson/Ali question is interesting. Joe Frazier was the closest thing in Ali's era to Tyson, and Mike was every bit as quick as Joe, but probably stronger with an even BETTER left hook (and that was Joe's signature punch). You see how close Ali/Frazier fights were, so I can't say for sure Ali beats Mike easy. They would have been memorable fights.

[Docter]

I think the biggest mistake anyone can make is to argue boxing with G.

[T and A Man]

Ali is a better boxer than Tyson.

However styles make fights, and IMO, Tyson's style would have troubled Ali a great deal and for that reason I would favour Tyson in a fight.

Tyson in his prime was harder to hit than Frazier, had a harder left hooker than Frazier (which is the shot that troubled Ali) and also had knock-out power in his right hand, which Frazier didn't.

That said, Tyson was vulnerable to the right uppercut, which would have seen George Foreman destroy him in 2 rounds.

Also, Tyson's record is blemished because of his utter dominance, people like to regard the 80's as full of bums that Tyson destroyed.

They are viewed as bums because of the gap between them and Tyson, if Tyson never existed in the 80's, leaving the era contested amongst the likes of Michael Spinks, Mitch Green, James Smith, Trevor Berbick, Tony Tucker and to a lesser extent Tyrell Biggs and Pinklon Thomas, then it would have been looked upon favourably.

All of them getting whipped by Tyson makes them look like none of them can fight.

Likewise, people laud Ali's record, but prior to his ban, other than Liston, I don't think he had 'great' opponents. Archie Moore had been fighting for 10 years. Floyd Patterson has been broken by Liston. Cleveland Williams, which is regarded as one of Ali's clinics in 1966, had to spend all of 1965 resting from a gunshot wound which saw permanent kidney damage, a lot of a part of his intenstine and nerve damage to one of his legs. Who does that leave? Jerry Quarry? Henry Cooper?

[Magnum]

Impossible to know if Mike could have beaten Ali but you get the feeling those guys from the60's- 70's were as good as it gets.I think boxing peaked in that era and has been in a slow decline ever since.

It's funny that every other sport has improved each decade but boxing is regressing.I think thats because participation is way down due to easier ways to earn recognition for teenage boys and the effect of drugs ect. in derailing promising kids.

Still,Mike was the number one athlete in the world for a couple of years in the late 80's.When I was in primary school,even all the girls knew who Mike Tyson was.It will be a helluva long time before another boxer reaches that level of recognition.

[alecks]

tyson has been abusing steroids for years,no wonder he looks ancient.connect the dots

[bengalltigerr]

(07-29-2011 10:41 AM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

"Tyson was the most exciting thing to happen to boxing ever. Better than Ali."

False.

Ali was the most recognizable man on the planet and greatest sportsman of the last century.

Tyson wasn't even the best of his generation.

Holyfield was.

I wouldn't say Holyfield was better than Tyson, they were equally good. However, Tyson has always been my favorite.

[Timoteo]

"Impossible to know if Mike could have beaten Ali but you get the feeling those guys from the60's- 70's were as good as it gets.I think boxing peaked in that era and has been in a slow decline ever since."

I don't believe boxing as a whole has declined. I think HEAVYWEIGHT boxing has declined. The 60s and 70s was the heyday for the division, and there's no question that that division has fallen off with regards to depth. Different theories abound. Some believe that bigger athletes simply gravitated to other sports. If you look at boxing as a whole, there are great, talented fighters in every division, but boxing has always stuck to the maxim that heavyweights dictate the course of the sport. There was a time, going back to perhaps the turn of the century, where the heavyweight champion of the world was among the most famous and recognized men on the planet. I think boxing as a sport does a poor job of showcasing their lighter weights. Lightweight through perhaps light heavyweight seems to be consistently stocked with talent, with fighters moving up in weight to take on the better fighters in divisions above it.

Multiple alphabets are what has destroyed boxing - not the boxers themselves. Each org wants to protect its champion. Each champ is matched against the safest opponents. I also think boxing should do away with some of the junior divisions. Guys are WAY over the limit on fight night anyway, so they should consolidate some of these divisions to increase the competition. You don't need a new division for every 5 pounds or so.

[Pilgrim37]

Glory Days,they'll pass you by,Glory Days,
In the blink of a young girls eye Glory Days..

"But,better to have been a has been than a never was!"

[kosko]

He doesn't look that bad.

For what he has been though.. (hell and back) he's doing alright. In all honesty he should be dead. Ali lost his body by that age, and many other boxers we're close to death. I read in a interview that he is as healthy as he as ever been since becoming a vegan. He has slimmed down and is tryna balance his life out.

Brothers age good. Hes looking rough for 45 .. yeah. But he's doing a lot better then many would of predicted say 10-15 years ago.

[JayMillz]

[Pilgrim37]

That's fucking hilarious..he's a good sport.
Wonder if he was tempted by the Bundas??