[churros]

I was going to complain this thread should be in the newbie lounge. But it's proving great sport for the members.

[HankMoody]

(06-18-2016 06:10 AM)Uhondo Wrote:  

The biggest mistake guys make is the mistake of self-deception. Even though a guy may
know how he should game a girl, he still sometimes does what “feels right.” This usually means:
•Texting or calling a girl too much
•Paying her gushing compliments
•Telling her exactly how he feels

Guys don’t consciously think they’re doing anything wrong or incorrect when they act like this. Instead they usually rationalize things like, “Telling her that I really enjoyed meeting her and that I think she’s really special is a great way to spark her emotions and make a connection. Any guy who knows game knows that merely telling a girl “how you feel” does not spark an emotion or make a connection. Yet, when a guy’s feelings overwhelm him, his subjective view of the situations deceives him into seeing the situation diferently. If you find yourself saying, “This girl’s different—I need to do something different with her” then you’re probably falling into the self-deception trap. Every guy will have these thoughts at some point. Just learn to recognize them.

GAME works on every girl—no matter how attractive, special, or “different” she is. The methods and techniques in game appeal to women—all women. Moreover, once you see the success for yourself, don’t second-guess it. The same game you use to seduce that “cute” girl will work exactly the same when you apply it to the “perfect 10” girl. A more attractive (or "special") girl does not require a diferent set of skills.

What works works. Period.

Add: guys who think women have a master plan, communicate directly, and believe that most of the words that come out of their mouth make sense or have long term meaning.

"I'm afraid of getting hurt." (read: I am not all that physically attracted to you.)
"Let's take it slowly." (read: I am not all that physically attracted to you.)
"I'm not that kind of girl." (read: I am not all that physically attracted to you.)

OP is playing into the hamster wheel. He believes this woman has some sort of long term strategic plan, and that she's putting up barriers for him to cross in order to achieve it. He's knows better, but he's doing this because she's "The One" and is "marriage material" even though he's in his 20s, which is far too young an age for a man to contemplate marriage. I am surprised to see XXL buying into it.

The reality is that women act almost entirely from emotion and feeling. That's why they'll string a guy along for months without so much as a peck on the cheek, but go home with a bartender after hanging out with him for an hour. If she's physically into you, she'll traverse deserts to be in your presence, because that's what her feelings are telling her to do.

If she's not that into you, she'll make up all this cryptic crap about being afraid to get hurt, the timing isn't right, she still has "feelings" for Chad Thundercock, blah blah blah, because women do not communicate directly. Men without game will read into it and think these statements actually have meaning, when in reality she's simply saying "I'm not feeling this physically."

The only way to judge women is by their actions. Their words are meaningless because they are not direct communicators.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(06-18-2016 07:23 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

I'm not going to coddle you. This will be harsh, but you need to hear it.
...

[TrifeLife]

First, I agree with XXL in that it is NOT true that girls never consider factors besides their tingling vagina. Though this becomes less likely as they get older, and basically null once they get fucked enough times. I can believe such considerations were at play with this particular girl.

My first GF was dating another guy before me. We had some classes and started flirting, playful teasing and tickling and all that. There were some instances when we were alone but nothing happend (later on she told me she wanted to kiss me but felt too guilty). When she was around her friends she would tone it down and wasn't flirty. Considerations of reputation and/or empathy towards her current BF held her back. Eventually she broke up with him.

The difference is that in my situation the sexual tension was PALPABLE. Nothing you've written indicates that this type of attraction is present, OP. Maybe it was there at first, but your beta behavior and pedestalization has ruined it. I didn't shower my girlwith mushy I really care for you. I just want you to be happy, even if it means staying with him... I just want us to stay close, just know that you deserve to be treated like a princess. type of shit, even though I was smitten. If I had acted this way, I'm certain she wouldn't have broken up with him. The attraction would have died off on her side. I would have been stuck in the friend zone.

This is where you are right now. Listen to what most of the guys on here are saying, this one's a lost cause and you are delusional if you think otherwise.

Also, much respect XXL, I've learned a lot from your posts and just recently repped you. Seems like you are being stubborn and doubling down on your original argument though, especially in light of OP's recent updates. How long should he hang on for? They don't even live close.

[XXL]

(06-18-2016 07:23 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

I believe girls decide within the first 5 seconds of meeting you if they'd potentially fuck you or not. Nothing you can do will make a girl who isn't interested in fucking you want to fuck you - if it happens it's a combination of pity / guilt by feeling they 'owe' the man something, which will only lead to shame and the complete collapse of the 'friendship'.

Huge myth. One of the biggest ones about women. They have no freaking clue. At all. Women are more like volume knob. They can get attracted/horny very fast, fast, slow or very slow, depending on circumstances. The speed of it doesn't make it any more better or worse. It's just is what it is. Again, I talk about real life here, not how it should work.

Simple example... I met a girl, there was a spark between us, she left for a 3 months, spark died out, we talked online but because of lack of face to face contact we became more like friends, she came back as a taken girl cause she met someone while she was away. I had to start from point zero again. She was closed towards me due to her alleged BF. We hung out more and more. I started having real impact on her over time, desire started snowballing, things went faster from there. Super basic example. Again, if I asked about it here I'm sure I'd get "next her" responses from most of you or bunch of lectures how she should be obsessing over me even after she left for a while or else it's a lost case. Yeah right. That is why I don't post threads here about tough game scenarios from my life that require Jedi like moves to win.

(06-18-2016 07:23 AM)AnonymousBosch Wrote:  

I know enough about women and their behaviour to be able to predict it. I know what qualities attract them in a man, and can put myself in their shoes easily enough. You are making statement after statement that repels me and makes my Theoretical Pussy dry up, because it sounds creepy, delusional and borderline abusive. This is going beyond beta behaviour: you're crossing into the delusional reality of the Gamma Male, where you're living out some grand romantic fantasy in your head where she's the actress in your movie, not paying attention to her disinterest in taking part to the extent that she'll sleep in a car to shield herself from you.

Do you know how many girls at school would laugh about the clueless guys they'd friendzoned? Do you know how many girlfriends have described their Orbiters to me over the years, completely creeped out? Do you know how many women write about this exact behavior in a mocking, disgusted way? Do you know just how standard your story is?

Stop wasting your time and find a girl who doesn't see you 'that way'.

You'd be right if we talked about women in general. However in this particular situation/context that kind of lecturing/debating is pointless. What you and others don't get is that OP [and me] knows very well that this situation is tough and shouldn't occur in the first place. It's a bad game so to speak, we know that. It's completely different than the standard game procedure. It looks tough and bit hopeless to be honest. But it's doable. Proper game can make the difference. OP is in recovery mode now. He's in deep shit with this girl [from game standpoint] and he's trying to flip it. He can succeed or not, that's fine, but there are clear clues that it's getting better for him.

That's what game is about. Game gets you girls, whether it's prudes or the ones friendzoned you already. The problem with you guys is that you do not talk about real game here. You just debate about it from armchair perspective judging what's right or wrong. You don't have the answers. To quote Mike "Everybody has a plan until they get hit". Real game starts when you get hit. Go figure.

TrifeLife Wrote:

Also, much respect XXL, I've learned a lot from your posts and just recently repped you. Seems like you are being stubborn and doubling down on your original argument though, especially in light of OP's recent updates. How long should he hang on for? They don't even live close.

Thanks. Glad you asked. How long? However long he wants. It doesn't matter. And that's the whole point that nobody gets. He's not emotionally attached, desperate, needy or obsessed. He can try as long as he can. She's not the only girl in his life. He doesn't even have oneitis. It's just one girl that he wants. It's the same situation as if *I* had an idea right now that I actually like this girl Anna, a friend of mine from my previous work I'm in touch with, that I want to pursue now and I decided I'm starting tomorrow. Would that decision make me a different person all of a sudden? Would I turn into a needy/desperate guy realizing that she's the love of my life that I cannot live without? Would I put my life on hold and stop seeing girls and leave the game for her? No. I'd do the same thing I advocate to OP. I'd start at level friendzone, try my best to game her right and make it work. No worries.



PS. I love this thread though. It shows the difference between pua game and manosphere game. The former is about taking advantage of your tools and everything you have within your reach that can get you what you want asap [the how]. The latter focuses on broad discussion about game in general from macro level without getting into any details, nuances, difficulties, solutions [the why]. Different take on game is evident.

[HankMoody]

No disrespect towards XXL who contributes a lot to the forum. We simply disagree in this particular instance.

Of course, my view is a bit skewed. I was once burned badly by a case Oneitis. (I wrote about it in the thread titled "The Awakening")

To this day, I still remember all the excuses: "I might still be in love with my ex", "I'm worried about getting hurt", "I'm worried I just might get too deep into this", etc., while at the same time having no problem fucking Chad Bartender because it's "just a fling." Despite that, I couldn't get her off my mind. She was special, wife material, if I could just make her realize what a great guy I am for her.

Then, when we finally started "dating" it didn't really get any better. I had put her on such a pedestal it was over from the start. Constant anxiety, she would go hot and cold, and I would always be wondering whether she really did sleep over at her sister's last night or whether she was over at Chad's place. But she was the prize, she was The One, she was worth it all.

In hindsight, all I can do is chuckle. The amount of single, attractive, feminine women out there is staggering.

Years later, if I've learned one thing, it's this - it's easier to start a new relationship than to fix a broken one. You have to start the relationship off with the right frame and then maintain it. Once you've lost frame, and let her know that she's The One, the dynamic is off. She has all the power, and that's exactly what she doesn't want. She wants a strong, masculine man to take charge and lead.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Okay.

Assuming that XXL "totally gets it" and this is a chick that the OP just has to get his dick in then we could proceed on the basis that the OP has some rare, terminal dick disease for which this particular woman's pussy is the only cure.

If that were the case then my advice would be this.

Break contact. Utterly. "I'm going through some stuff right now." Don't elaborate. Be serious. Be mysterious.

Do the homework on your lifting, hit the gym and fuck around for a bit to get some perspective and reduce the thirst. Alter your MO and your appearance enough that when you RE-introduce yourself to this girl that she doesn't equate you with the same guy she's friend-zoned a thousand times.

With any luck she'll be compelled by the change and want to explore just how different you are. Of course, if you snap back to this white-knight bullshit for even a second then you will have wasted all of your efforts. You better believe she will be probing this new identity relentlessly at every opportunity, and every crappy habit you developed with her will be screaming for you to head right back down that same dead end you find yourself at now.

Even now I can see this thread being bumped in 6 months to a year with a post that contains "so we started cuddling again and blah blah blah...".

Again. This is entirely working on the assumption that you HAVE to have this chick when frankly you've put yourself in the worst possible position achieve this outcome. Some guy walking in off the street would have a far better chance at this point because you are neck deep in red ink on this one.

And we tell you these things not because we hold ourselves in high regard but because most of us have been right where you are at some point in our lives and this is as close as we can get to jumping in a time machine and pimp-slapping our younger selves.

[AnonymousBosch]

This is what 'texting in class' looked like back in my day.

His proofreaded corrections to her letter are still the most desperate case of denial I've ever seen.

[TrifeLife]

(06-18-2016 03:05 PM)XXL Wrote:  

TrifeLife Wrote:

Also, much respect XXL, I've learned a lot from your posts and just recently repped you. Seems like you are being stubborn and doubling down on your original argument though, especially in light of OP's recent updates. How long should he hang on for? They don't even live close.

Thanks. Glad you asked. How long? However long he wants. It doesn't matter. And that's the whole point that nobody gets. He's not emotionally attached, desperate, needy or obsessed. He can try as long as he can. She's not the only girl in his life. He doesn't even have oneitis. It's just one girl that he wants. It's the same situation as if *I* had an idea right now that I actually like this girl Anna, a friend of mine from my previous work I'm in touch with, that I want to pursue now and I decided I'm starting tomorrow. Would that decision make me a different person all of a sudden? Would I turn into a needy/desperate guy realizing that she's the love of my life that I cannot live without? Would I put my life on hold and stop seeing girls and leave the game for her? No. I'd do the same thing I advocate to OP. I'd start at level friendzone, try my best to game her right and make it work. No worries.

Do you really think that he's not attached?

(06-12-2016 07:18 PM)Tyrion Wrote:  

(06-12-2016 06:55 PM)tanner Wrote:  

How many other women have you been with?

As in hooking up and casual?

7

(06-12-2016 07:18 PM)Tyrion Wrote:  

I feel that its more than oneitis

How many girls have you fucked, XXL?
Would you be butthurt if you found out 'Anna' got rawdogged and facialized by another previous coworker? I imagine OP would be pretty butthurt if he found out one-of-a-kind-marriage-material-unicorn-girl got rawdogged and facialized by one of her classmates.

You're talking from the point of view of a player, and he's talking from the point of view who of someone who is about to graduate from college and has a notch count of 7

(06-18-2016 02:40 AM)Tyrion Wrote:  

you think I haven't gamed random chicks and got into their panties before?

You think I find it super challenging to get laid at bars, parties, and so on if I really try to on consistent basis? That too, while in freakin college?!

C'mon be reasonable.

Banging sluts, down-to-fuck-but-playing-hard girls is one thing--but challenging yourself against one of the hardest stonewalls (Muslim girls) out there for one in Western World is another.

...

As I said before as well--I'll rather challenge myself and learn by going after one of the hardest possible cases for me (uptil now) rather than keep banging your average college sloots. It's not like I haven't been seeing other chicks during my time with this girl.

It's just that I find her far superior quality than anything i've came across college till now. So why not try as hard as you can and see the limit you can reach to (Even if it's not sex). It's all a learning curve, isn't it?

Honestly reading these two sections over they are bordering on trollish or some kind of spergish situation. You could go line by line through that mess, pure headscratchers.

(06-18-2016 02:40 AM)Tyrion Wrote:  

You think I find it super challenging to get laid at bars, parties, and so on if I really try to on consistent basis? That too, while in freakin college?!

sperg senses tingling

(06-18-2016 02:40 AM)Tyrion Wrote:  

Banging sluts, down-to-fuck-but-playing-hard girls is one thing--but challenging yourself against one of the hardest stonewalls (Muslim girls) out there for one in Western World is another.

what is a down-to-fuck-but-playing-hard girls ?

(06-18-2016 02:40 AM)Tyrion Wrote:  

[i]I'll rather challenge myself and learn by going after one of the hardest possible cases for me (uptil now)

all those years of banginging sluts (7 of them, allegedly) and the game got boring, so now OP is just looking to challenge and amuse himself.......

(06-18-2016 02:40 AM)Tyrion Wrote:  

[i]why not try as hard as you can and see the limit you can reach to (Even if it's not sex). It's all a learning curve, isn't it?

lol what the fuck?

OP I would love to hear a short account of your most recent intimate encounter AKA story of the last time you put your dick in a girl

calling virgin sperg case.

[XXL]

(06-19-2016 03:05 AM)TrifeLife Wrote:  

Do you really think that he's not attached?

From his writing I get a sense that he's on the same fence as she is. On one hand he likes her so much that he views her as wife material but on the other hand he's aware that its so unfavorable situation that the true happy ending is unlikely. But I think she will sleep with him regardless.

(06-19-2016 03:05 AM)TrifeLife Wrote:  

You're talking from the point of view of a player, and he's talking from the point of view who of someone who is about to graduate from college and has a notch count of 7

You're right, however I know nothing about him so I can't tell how he's doing overall.

(06-18-2016 02:40 AM)Tyrion Wrote:  

Banging sluts, down-to-fuck-but-playing-hard girls is one thing--but challenging yourself against one of the hardest stonewalls (Muslim girls) out there for one in Western World is another.

...

As I said before as well--I'll rather challenge myself and learn by going after one of the hardest possible cases for me (uptil now) rather than keep banging your average college sloots. It's not like I haven't been seeing other chicks during my time with this girl.

It's just that I find her far superior quality than anything i've came across college till now. So why not try as hard as you can and see the limit you can reach to (Even if it's not sex). It's all a learning curve, isn't it?

This is what I like the most about this thread. I love challenges and the process of going after what I want using everything within my reach. That's when game shines the most, that's when the great adventures happen, that's where the best memories come from, that's the source of great satisfaction.

---

I've been through many twisted situations. Going for a beautiful taken girl from my work I wanted to be with. Gaming an amazing girl I met on holidays living in different city. Maintaining relationship with absolute stunner in high demand while I was totally broke and barely living, etc etc. All of those scenarios were tough or hopeless to some extent. But I said fuck it and went for mine. I played that game chess the best I could. I see no wrong in that.

I don't get it what's the big deal and why you guys are so sensitive and overreacting about it like a bunch of little girls. Even if he's actually needy, obsessed, reactive and hopelessly in love that's going to break his fragile heart. Even if then OK, so what? Why do you try to "save" him from the hassle at all cost? Let him play the game god dammit. Let him experience some real shit, let him taste winning and losing, let him learn.

Guy tries to nail a girl he really likes despite all odds, big deal.

PS. It reminds me the thread about how to let a girl know that you're not interested in her anymore [don't remember the title] where vast majority of you said it's best to disappear and go ghost on her. I was like wtf. WIA too. So you present yourself as masculine, confident, cool, fearless, attractive men yet you're afraid to tell some girl right in her face that you're not into it anymore?! It doesn't add up. Same thing here. Instead of saying "dude, it's fucked up but try this..." and let OP face the consequences of this choice on his own you guys turn into OP's overprotective mother telling her little boy not to do it cause he might get hurt. That's not how MEN talk in the locker room.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(06-19-2016 05:12 AM)XXL Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 03:05 AM)TrifeLife Wrote:  

Do you really think that he's not attached?

From his writing I get a sense that he's on the same fence as she is.

So let me present you with a true or false scenario:

The OP's bitch is so torn and obsessed (as he is) that she just had to go online to a woman's forum and get advice from more experience women as to how to proceed here, complete with paragraphs upon paragraphs of updates containing what she believe to be important details but are actually insignificant minutiae that has no impact whatsoever on the outcome.













I think we all know the answer to that.

[Cruisen_Chubby]

This is a good thread-- I think it's a healthy debate with some sporting disagreement; but at least OP has the option to take advice a la carte (which the bulk will come from XXL's posts, I'm sure); but like XXL said, this is okay.

Depending on the age of the fellas posting on this thread, I will assume that we look at OP as a younger brother, son, nephew, etc. while giving him advice... meaning, if my little cousin were to come to me with a conundrum such as this, I would give the same advice to him as I would to OP -- It's like a small little family here of masculine guidance, which is why this community plays a special role for a lot of men on board... Especially today (being fathers day)-- some "men" here have never had fathers and believe it or not, they look to advice given here on how to proceed with women, careers, lifestyle choices, etc. as if we are father figures (or older brothers, etc.).

With that being said, any advice given that seems negative is actually coming from a place of love. I would say most of us commenting here have been in this very situation (or seen it play out multiple times) so we know.

Thing is... IT HURTS... It hurts really fucking bad.

Red Pillage, Mr. Moody, and myself have been coming from the vantage point of walking away as to avoid pain-- as we are certain it is inevitable in this case.

Although I disagree with XXL on sticking aroud, he has a few points:

-OP walking away from this girl will still hurt him.
-Not knowing what "could have happened" will cause anxiety for OP
-Not learning this stuff first hand may set him up for bigger failures down the road (like giving a ring to a bar slut who says the right words at the right time)

So let's come to a conclusion and close this thread up. Perhaps it's time to implement a hybrid of the advice given here. Why not give this a try:

1) Continue chasing your unicorn
2) But back off a little to allow you to find a side chick (or two)

This allows you to A) keep going down the path you're currently traveling; and B) learn more about the nature of women. Naturally, having a couple chicks on the side will weed out a bit of your thirst as well (your unicorn can smell it and thirst is unicorn repellent).

[HankMoody]

It's not really about avoiding pain. I'll compare this to real estate.

Your first time investor sees a property and is like "OH MY GOD IT HAS SO MUCH POTENTIAL! WE COULD TURN IT INTO A YOGA STUDIO BED AND BREAKFAST THAT SERVES ONLY ORGANIC FARM FRESH FOOD! I LOVE IT! I'LL PAY ANYTHING FOR IT!" Savvy agents will then play on this, and say stuff like "We're fielding a few offers on the property, it's going to go quick, so we need an offer in like two days otherwise you'll lose it." Rather than compare other properties, or realistically assess their finances, the new investor gets into a tizzy because they're so afraid of losing this one special, magical, unique property that they'll overpay for it, even if doing so will make utilizing it impossible. A few years down the road, they realize they're out of cash, a yoga studio bed and breakfast wasn't a good use for the property, and now they need Hank to help them fix this mess. I see it all the time.

A seasoned real estate investor sees a piece of property, understands it's potential, but isn't afraid to walk away if the deal isn't right. They're aware of comparable properties in the area, and know that if this one falls through another opportunity will arise. Granted, sometimes you have to strike quickly, but the world is full of opportunity. You never want to get so in love with a piece of property that you'll leverage all of your cashflow and not be able to do anything with it. They also know that "feelings" don't translate into money - although building 10 condos isn't exciting, it's lucrative. The yoga B&B would be fun, and feel good, but it's not happening.

That's the same concept with game. If you get too enamored with a certain woman, you'll start to believe that she will bring you happiness and make your life complete. That's simply not the case. And in doing so, you'll throw away other, possibly better opportunities, because you believe this one is just too special to pass up. All based on your feelings alone.

Tyrion's actions are illogical and guided by feelings. We're detached, and our advice is guided by experience based on a candid assessment of the situation.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but no woman, no matter how great she is, will make your life complete. It's up to you to do that. Women should compliment your life, but not be the center of it.

[HonantheBarbarian]

Based on OP's overall language and demeanor regarding this situation, I honestly don't believe he's getting any on the side from any other girls, sorry bro.

These posts don't read as someone who is currently in an abundance mentality. I'm only saying that because ive been there.

[dog24]

Props to XXL for sticking out for what he believes is right.
I do agree with all the other posters on this one occasion though.

Telling the OP to keep going with this because he might learn something is like telling some scrawny kid go fight that roided out mma fighter on your first street fight because even if you lose you might learn something. OP is definitely gonna learn something out of this situation but is it really worth it to go through that just to learn?

Many guys with a lot of experience have tried to keep him from getting hurt, that is because you never know how people are gonna react despite being a "man". Guys do get burnout or lose the ability to pair bond just like girls do, a friend of mine turned into a full blown alcoholic for an entire year after something like this, another one lost i don't even know how many pounds due to depression and not eating.

He's not you XXL, he's not able to keep it aloof like it's not big deal while gaming other girls in the meantime and he's definitely not gonna react like you do when this blows in his face.

[HankMoody]

Another thing that OP isn't even considering...

Relationships have to be started correctly from the start. She doesn't want you to be chasing her like you're a lost puppy dog, she wants you to be the man that she craves.

If you start off putting her on a pedestal, she's always going to have it in the back of her mind that she could do better. And so are you.

[XXL]

(06-19-2016 11:26 AM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 05:12 AM)XXL Wrote:  

(06-19-2016 03:05 AM)TrifeLife Wrote:  

Do you really think that he's not attached?

From his writing I get a sense that he's on the same fence as she is.

So let me present you with a true or false scenario:

The OP's bitch is so torn and obsessed (as he is) that she just had to go online to a woman's forum and get advice from more experience women as to how to proceed here, complete with paragraphs upon paragraphs of updates containing what she believe to be important details but are actually insignificant minutiae that has no impact whatsoever on the outcome.

That would be epic

(06-19-2016 02:50 PM)Cruisen_Chubby Wrote:  

So let's come to a conclusion and close this thread up. Perhaps it's time to implement a hybrid of the advice given here. Why not give this a try:

1) Continue chasing your unicorn
2) But back off a little to allow you to find a side chick (or two)

This allows you to A) keep going down the path you're currently traveling; and B) learn more about the nature of women. Naturally, having a couple chicks on the side will weed out a bit of your thirst as well (your unicorn can smell it and thirst is unicorn repellent).

Yeah well that's my point, it's standard procedure in game after all, gaming them all at the same time including your precious unicorn. I don't know what's the fuss about it.

(06-19-2016 03:26 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

That's the same concept with game. If you get too enamored with a certain woman, you'll start to believe that she will bring you happiness and make your life complete. That's simply not the case. And in doing so, you'll throw away other, possibly better opportunities, because you believe this one is just too special to pass up. All based on your feelings alone.

Tyrion's actions are illogical and guided by feelings. We're detached, and our advice is guided by experience based on a candid assessment of the situation.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but no woman, no matter how great she is, will make your life complete. It's up to you to do that. Women should compliment your life, but not be the center of it.

OK but trying to get that one girl you find better than others doesn't automatically turn you into a loser handing your balls to her. You're quite jaded.

(06-19-2016 05:20 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

Telling the OP to keep going with this because he might learn something is like telling some scrawny kid go fight that roided out mma fighter on your first street fight because even if you lose you might learn something. OP is definitely gonna learn something out of this situation but is it really worth it to go through that just to learn?

You blow it out of proportions. She's just a girl. He's just trying to sleep with her now. That's it. You make it as if he's about to go to a war that might get his dick cut off. Come on..

(06-19-2016 05:20 PM)dog24 Wrote:  

He's not you XXL, he's not able to keep it aloof like it's not big deal while gaming other girls in the meantime and he's definitely not gonna react like you do when this blows in his face.

1. How do you know?
2. Even if he can't keep it cool, so what? He'll burn just little a bit, not a lot. They don't sleep with each other, they're not in love, they're not couple, they don't live together. Right now he's only infatuated by the image of her that he created in his head. He doesn't know her that well. They didn't even spend a week together. Right now they're just seeing each other. It's an early stage. He won't go crazy if it blows in his face at this stage.

(06-19-2016 05:32 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

Another thing that OP isn't even considering...

Relationships have to be started correctly from the start. She doesn't want you to be chasing her like you're a lost puppy dog, she wants you to be the man that she craves.

If you start off putting her on a pedestal, she's always going to have it in the back of her mind that she could do better. And so are you.

Obviously. He already started bad, what's the point of telling him now he should have started differently in the first place?

------------------

This is not even about OP and his special girl anymore. This thread has turned into recovery game thread. The real questions here are..


- How do you recover from a bad start?
- How do you flip the wrong frames set from the beginning and turn them around in your favor?
- How do you escape the friendzone and become potential sexual partner?

3 pages already and no answers beside.. not worth it / don't do it / waste of time / you're done / wrong start / go after other girls.

[Rhyme or Reason]

@XXL

Quote:

You blow it out of proportions. She's just a girl. He's just trying to sleep with her now.

Well according to the OP, he is not just trying to bang her. All the (good) advice given to him in this thread was pertinent to that specific goal...to which you later said we are wrong for encouraging him to do....on a GAME forum (this is the real issue I take with the OP and your replies)...now you say he's just trying to fuck her.

Which is it?

OP is gone and is not coming back, by the way.

Hopefully next time he will end up in /r/relationships, where he belongs.

[HectorLavoe]

@Op

It is clear there is no potential for anything longterm with this girl, she is not the one, you are going to move far away from each other and her parents will never accept you. Also, If she really is a virgin, how would you feel taking that from her knowing her family might excommunicate her or mercy kill her for bringing shame to her family? I think if you genuinely care about this girl you should let her go, for her sake and yours. There will be hotter and younger women just as traditional and more submissive waiting for you in your journey of life when you are ready to settle down, that time is not now.

[AneroidOcean]

I'm just going to post my questions/concerns and size them up and color them red. I and others could be completely wrong on this topic, but XXL and the OP refuse to address these. I'd like to know why:

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

I agree with Hank Moody and Red_Pillage here. You've classically friend-zoned yourself by being her friend.

You even said that you're going to keep doing the things you did before you got more intense with her, like kiss her on the forehead.

Look, I'm a guy that is very affectionate towards his female friends even in the midst of a LTR. I'll hug them tight, I'll smack them, I'll even massage their hands, arms, shoulders, backs, legs, and even asses (usually back of hand or palm), but I would never kiss their fucking foreheads.

That's awkward unless you're a girl's lover or her brother.

There's a lot else I'm suspicious about in your post. I'm quoting the weird parts below:

Quote:

Hello fellas...This might be a bit beta by your standards but here goes. Kindly take 4 mins to read. It goes pretty quick, I promise!

You're on a men's forum asking for advice. A little humbleness is appropriate, but this above is classic approval seeking nonsense. Why are you already convincing us that we should read the thread? You're very nearly groveling. I can see why she's on the fence about you (at best).

Quote:

So basically I have been gaming (if you wanna call it that) this girl.

Why are you looking down on the word "gaming?" Are you too good for this, Mr. White Knight?

Quote:

We started out as friends and didn't have much emotional feelings. However, as I got to know her more, I found that she was a diamond hidden away in the chaos of sloots around me.

So she's a special snowflake? You have to emphasize that the other girls are sloots for no reason other than to put her up on your pedestal.

Quote:

Turns out, my "friend" was a very nice, feminine, modern girl.

The bolded above is a positive how? How is being a modern girl positive?

Quote:

Her cooking skills are amazing. She holds traditional views of marriage, home-making, and her commitment to her man. At the same time, she is very smart and is acing her upper div Physics and Chem classes with A's, B's etc.

Her cooking skills are not amazing, I can guarantee that. There are VERY few people who truly have amazing cooking skills. Again, you're putting her up on a pedestal. If she's so amazing, would you find her cooking amongst any of the chefs of the finest dining restaurants? Those are "amazing" cooking skills, not hers.

What exactly is a girl who has traditional views of home-making doing studying Physics and Chem classes in college? That's not really congruent.

Quote:

We started to hang out a lot and I became her "best" guy friend. She started sharing her secrets, past life, and all.

Becoming a girl's best guy friend is almost exclusively a death knell on strong attraction. You conveniently skip past sharing and of this "past life" she has or her "secrets." I imagine she's not a perfect snowflake in these, but you left it out.

Quote:

Cutting to the chase--we started to become really close. We'll cuddle, become cozy while watching movies, and care for each other so on. We both knew its not a friendship anymore. In one of these moments she asked me if I liked her and I played the right game and told her that it was more than liking blah blah (which was kind of true as I was falling for her). Things escalated. Pretty quick. In next couple of meetings, we hooked up. Things got really intensely physical (sex didn't happen).

You hint around what happened. What happened? You kissed and gave her tongue? You dry-humped? You got a hand on bare tit for a few moments? Nobody is going to knock you for having very little physical experience but saying you're hooking up with other girls gives us the impression that hooking up was something significant, not any of the above.

Quote:

Now today, all of a sudden, she texts me and tells me that we should create some distance. She says she is confused whether she likes me or is it just temporary feeling because I care for her and all.Also, she says that doesn't want to get too involved into all this since I'll be graduating soon from college and move away. Moreover, her family is kind of religious and they would not marry outside of their certain religious creed (of which I am not a part of). She feels that becoming physically too close will only make it harder for both of us later on. She wants to be practical because she says she knows that it is not gonna work out due to various factors (I kind of know that. Her family will NEVER let her marry me). She told me not to be nice to her or treat her special because she falls weak emotionally and ends up too close to me. I told her my feelings for her a natural and I'd continue to treat her the way I did before. She said then in that case, she is clear from her side and she'll distance herself on her own (although she doesn't want to lose me as a friend).

The part in bold above is the only important part. She's re-friend-zoning you and she doesn't want to lose you as a friend.

Quote:

Now, brothers and experts in the field, what should I do? I have hooked up with another girl while I was talking to this girl--but believe me, it's not the same. I have become emotionally attached to this girl and I feel like she might be the girl I'd be willing to have a LTR or even marriage. She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife and especially in an era of endless sloot supply..finding a beautiful, hot girl with wife-material personality and views is hard. I don't want to let her go.

What should I do? FTOW approach is hard here fellas. She is just special to me. I don't enjoy hooking up with girls like I used to. This is different. Don't wanna let her go.

Please help

Cut ties and move on. Fucking ten other women is not hard, it's fun. She's not special, you caught feelings for a girl that mostly just wants you to be her friend and comfort her. You're comfortable. Like a cozy blanket to use for warmth or a leather couch to use to lay down on.

I'm going to repeat your own words:

Quote:

She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife

Even if she does, she is missing the most important quality of all if you're that man. For her to want you to be her man instead of her best man friend.

Sucks kid, but them's the breaks, and once you suck it up and move in a positive direction you'll be laughing to yourself as to why you ever thought this girl was so important in the first place.

[eradicator]

AO, I'd have repped you for this but I already repped you, because you have a very clear way of articulating what I was already thinking without any bullshit.

[Svoboda]

Great thread! Some of my favorite members (Hank, Anaroid) posting here.

When I read OP, my first thought was: is this girl from Pakistan (insert any other country where she would be stoned to death for sleeping with a non believer) or something?
If she was from Pakistan I would have read her blabla about not wanting to fall for OP because there was no future for them, as: I'm your's, you just need to convince me there is a future.

But I assumed OP would have mentioned her being a muslim (he's vague about her religion), and thought: She's just not that in to you.

[Svoboda]

AneroidOcean,

Quote:

So basically I have been gaming (if you wanna call it that) this girl.

I think he means what he's been doing might not be called gaming, because he hasn't banged her, got feelings etc etc.
If anything, she's gaming him.

[XXL]

(06-20-2016 12:22 PM)Red_Pillage Wrote:  

@XXL

Quote:

You blow it out of proportions. She's just a girl. He's just trying to sleep with her now.

Well according to the OP, he is not just trying to bang her. All the (good) advice given to him in this thread was pertinent to that specific goal...to which you later said we are wrong for encouraging him to do....on a GAME forum (this is the real issue I take with the OP and your replies)...now you say he's just trying to fuck her.

Which is it?

I didn't read any advice on how OP should make it happen. Most of responses were either debates about game in general or lecturing him to give up.

Never once did I say you're wrong for encouraging to sleep with her. I said advice in this thread sucks cause all I read was 3 pages of debates about women and game in general, stating what's obvious and whining about everything EXCEPT telling him how to actually do it. I thought that when a guy asks a question you jump mostly to answer it. Opinions are not the answers. I have my opinion about his case too but why would he care about my opinion. He wants what he wants and he's seeking solutions.

I said he's just trying to sleep with her now because that's the first step. Only after that he can try to work towards LTR if he wants. Isn't that obvious?

[XXL]

(06-20-2016 04:12 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

I'm just going to post my questions/concerns and size them up and color them red. I and others could be completely wrong on this topic, but XXL and the OP refuse to address these. I'd like to know why:

I see nothing special to address but OK let's go...

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

I agree with Hank Moody and Red_Pillage here. You've classically friend-zoned yourself by being her friend.

You even said that you're going to keep doing the things you did before you got more intense with her, like kiss her on the forehead.

Look, I'm a guy that is very affectionate towards his female friends even in the midst of a LTR. I'll hug them tight, I'll smack them, I'll even massage their hands, arms, shoulders, backs, legs, and even asses (usually back of hand or palm), but I would never kiss their fucking foreheads.

That's awkward unless you're a girl's lover or her brother.

XXL breaks it down: He's trying to be her lover. He's not yet of course but he tries to force that frame on her either consciously or not. It's also direct expression of care and affection. He did it too early of course but it's not like he ruined everything by that little thing.

It's like when guys treat women as their GFs on first dates, help with coat, chair, opening door, give elbow, etc, they take care of them. It's the same mechanism. They try to enforce or set that frame that they're already together so that the girl is more likely to get intimate.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

There's a lot else I'm suspicious about in your post. I'm quoting the weird parts below:

Quote:

Hello fellas...This might be a bit beta by your standards but here goes. Kindly take 4 mins to read. It goes pretty quick, I promise!

You're on a men's forum asking for advice. A little humbleness is appropriate, but this above is classic approval seeking nonsense. Why are you already convincing us that we should read the thread? You're very nearly groveling. I can see why she's on the fence about you (at best).

XXL breaks it down: Guy is new and really really wants to discuss. It's fine. Stop whining.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

So basically I have been gaming (if you wanna call it that) this girl.

Why are you looking down on the word "gaming?" Are you too good for this, Mr. White Knight?

XXL breaks it down: I hate the word game as a verb. "Gaming" sounds so lame to me. Guys who play basketball they play the game, they're not gaming the ball or the other team.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

We started out as friends and didn't have much emotional feelings. However, as I got to know her more, I found that she was a diamond hidden away in the chaos of sloots around me.

So she's a special snowflake? You have to emphasize that the other girls are sloots for no reason other than to put her up on your pedestal.

XXL breaks it down: It happens to all of us. It's human nature. I see nothing wrong with that. I recall many instances like that from my life even not too long ago. Even when I knew very what was happening to me I still felt that weird attraction that I couldn't figure out. The whole skills is to look at it from rational standpoint and be able to think clearly despite those feelings. I can't imagine a man who has never felt this way in his life. The whole difference between guys like us and others is that we're more aware of it and able to control it. It's learned behavior. Others simply didn't learn it.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

Turns out, my "friend" was a very nice, feminine, modern girl.

The bolded above is a positive how? How is being a modern girl positive?

XXL breaks it down: I have no idea what's "modern" mean in this context. She has some electronic devices in her body?

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

Her cooking skills are amazing. She holds traditional views of marriage, home-making, and her commitment to her man. At the same time, she is very smart and is acing her upper div Physics and Chem classes with A's, B's etc.

Her cooking skills are not amazing, I can guarantee that. There are VERY few people who truly have amazing cooking skills. Again, you're putting her up on a pedestal. If she's so amazing, would you find her cooking amongst any of the chefs of the finest dining restaurants? Those are "amazing" cooking skills, not hers.

What exactly is a girl who has traditional views of home-making doing studying Physics and Chem classes in college? That's not really congruent.

XXL breaks it down: You try to tell me that a girl who has traditional views of home-making can't study? I'm kind of stunned. What congruency has anything to do with that? Traditional woman is not someone with no life, no friends, no goals in life, who stays at home 24/7 cooking, cleaning, making babies and being your housewife.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

We started to hang out a lot and I became her "best" guy friend. She started sharing her secrets, past life, and all.

Becoming a girl's best guy friend is almost exclusively a death knell on strong attraction. You conveniently skip past sharing and of this "past life" she has or her "secrets." I imagine she's not a perfect snowflake in these, but you left it out.

XXL breaks it down: It's irrelevant to the situation. Her secrets are probably things like forgetting to take her cat back home from vacation or losing her best friend or not telling her parents about few F's she got at school etc. You expect some kind of brutal stories.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

Cutting to the chase--we started to become really close. We'll cuddle, become cozy while watching movies, and care for each other so on. We both knew its not a friendship anymore. In one of these moments she asked me if I liked her and I played the right game and told her that it was more than liking blah blah (which was kind of true as I was falling for her). Things escalated. Pretty quick. In next couple of meetings, we hooked up. Things got really intensely physical (sex didn't happen).

You hint around what happened. What happened? You kissed and gave her tongue? You dry-humped? You got a hand on bare tit for a few moments? Nobody is going to knock you for having very little physical experience but saying you're hooking up with other girls gives us the impression that hooking up was something significant, not any of the above.

XXL breaks it down: True. Hooking up can mean a lot of things. OP was ambiguous here.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

Now today, all of a sudden, she texts me and tells me that we should create some distance. She says she is confused whether she likes me or is it just temporary feeling because I care for her and all.Also, she says that doesn't want to get too involved into all this since I'll be graduating soon from college and move away. Moreover, her family is kind of religious and they would not marry outside of their certain religious creed (of which I am not a part of). She feels that becoming physically too close will only make it harder for both of us later on. She wants to be practical because she says she knows that it is not gonna work out due to various factors (I kind of know that. Her family will NEVER let her marry me). She told me not to be nice to her or treat her special because she falls weak emotionally and ends up too close to me. I told her my feelings for her a natural and I'd continue to treat her the way I did before. She said then in that case, she is clear from her side and she'll distance herself on her own (although she doesn't want to lose me as a friend).

The part in bold above is the only important part. She's re-friend-zoning you and she doesn't want to lose you as a friend.

XXL breaks it down: What she said is real to her. Indeed, she doesn't want to lose him as a friend. However she just didn't add that she also wants his P in her V. She wants that too. And the only reason she said that is that she knows that getting intimate will turn that friendship into different relationship that she wants with him but is afraid of consequences and potential repercussion. So it's her perfect excuse not to sleep with him. She's just concerned. He should not let that stop him. He should say "whatever happens our friendship is untouchable" and keep on doing his thing according to this plan. I hope you can see why this is good line in that context even though it frames you as a "friend".

Side question: Since when you listen to women so attentively and take their every word into account so seriously?

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

Now, brothers and experts in the field, what should I do? I have hooked up with another girl while I was talking to this girl--but believe me, it's not the same. I have become emotionally attached to this girl and I feel like she might be the girl I'd be willing to have a LTR or even marriage. She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife and especially in an era of endless sloot supply..finding a beautiful, hot girl with wife-material personality and views is hard. I don't want to let her go.

What should I do? FTOW approach is hard here fellas. She is just special to me. I don't enjoy hooking up with girls like I used to. This is different. Don't wanna let her go.

Please help

Cut ties and move on. Fucking ten other women is not hard, it's fun. She's not special, you caught feelings for a girl that mostly just wants you to be her friend and comfort her. You're comfortable. Like a cozy blanket to use for warmth or a leather couch to use to lay down on.

XXL breaks it down: For him maybe it is not so fun and easy. Again, you just give your opinion on a forum that TO YOU it's this and that. I have no idea whether it's worth it or not cause only time can tell.

(06-13-2016 09:29 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

Quote:

She has almost all of the qualities that a man would want in her wife

Even if she does, she is missing the most important quality of all if you're that man. For her to want you to be her man instead of her best man friend.

XXL breaks it down: Not true. They just started as friends. It can be flipped over certain period of time. That's what game does. It converts. You view it in black and white way. It's either on or not. If not then there's nothing that can be done. Again, not true. It can be done but it's different game than the standard procedure. That's all.

----

You clearly doesn't want to help him by replying this way. You're straight up dissing him. You're trying to put a newbie down by nitpicking anything you can [is it so bad he's too humble? really?] for an ego boost. I can nitpick and point out all the wrong things you say about game as easily.