[Gyro]

Alright, so I made a thread a couple months ago asking "why?" I wasn't getting the results I wanted to get, and all advice pointed to fixing up my internal game. (thanks everyone by the way, once I get over this mountain, I make a goddamn vow to pass on the knowledge gained on this journey to the younger generations or people who were /are in a similar situation as mine)

I pretty much finished every book recommended in that thread plus more, and, boy, do I feel a big difference. I'm not going to sit here and lie that i've squelched all my anxiety, but you know what, I've made huge strides; I've been taken to the river by everyone, now I need to just drink the water.

Unfortunately for the time being, I'm staying another week at my mom and pops' place in the middle of nowhere, so I can't practice game anywhere but tinder.

So a recap for those who don't remember or didn't see the last thread:

-21 y/o pseudovirgin
-I'm a handsome dude
-not much experience w/ chicks outside of 9 hookers (hence pseudovirg) ; big problem was pushing away girls that showed interest, like making excuses to bounce when they put it on a plater.

I'm positive I'm going to get over this hill.

[Gyro]

Anyways i've been experimenting w/ "Aggro asshole" game on tinder, and i'll just open up making fun of some minor feature of the girl so she gets offended like "bitch, the venice beach hippies have cleaner hair than that used mop on your head". They usually respond w/ "you're rude" or "that's not how you usually pick up a girl", then i'll just continue play the game.

Is there a point where I should start toning down?

I'm getting way longer conversations in tinder + more numbers via this method. I want to make this my staple game in real life too, b/c when I make approaches I usually have difficulty making the conversation sexual in nature or getting the girl emotional.

This way at least it starts emotional, and I can just play the fact that I'm just a rude, crass dick so I can make whatever damn remarks I want, so it'd be far easier for me to start making it sexual.

[Gyro]

Also another note I feel is important; I've been slowly and surely changing step-by-step mentally since the past year, but it wasn't until like two-three months ago when it finally clicked/coalesced.

It's like I stopped giving a shit, and just started saying out loud whatever was on my mind. For the time being, i've been shutting off my filter; If someone is bothering me off, i'll tell them to their face that they're bothering me.

It's weird..I'm way more happy/content, but people think i'm more negative, "an asshole" now. I've burned a lot of bridges in just the last couple months alone, a lot of my previous "friends" now hate me haha cuz I'm not afraid to speak my mind on anything any more.

Honestly, I'm not used to having enemies, but it's kind of catharthic/weird to now know that there are people out there that I used to call "friends" now dislike me.

I couldn't give a shit though, this is who I truly am, and if they don't like it, they can kindly fuck off.

If anyone remembers, I was afraid of telling my dad I wasn't becoming a doctor in the last thread, and I thought he was controlling me...well, I confronted him, and told him that I was going to do whatever the fuck I wanted to do in life and I respect him but he needs to also respect me.

[egionesco]

Hey Gyro,

I'm kinda in the same boat as you but you're ahead of me dealing with it, but I think you're going overboard. Others have said that getting a bit too aggro is a common step when fixing your inner game, but it's an overreaction to the idea that you have to be a dick to get women. You really just need to be man, which is part dick but is genuinely so without a hint of try-too-hard. I think you're getting there, but you are going to have to mitigate your dickishness with some comfort. You want to be an asshole with a smirk. I doubt, for example, that you should be losing your male friends, and your female friends should be responding positively to you having a backbone (although some of them won't because it will feel incongruent to them).

If you want to test some stuff out, GPS spoof or Tinder Plus to a city similar to yours and just go ham on the girls there since you'll never see them.

[Vienna]

(06-08-2016 07:34 PM)Gyro Wrote:  

Anyways i've been experimenting w/ "Aggro asshole" game on tinder, and i'll just open up making fun of some minor feature of the girl so she gets offended like "bitch, the venice beach hippies have cleaner hair than that used mop on your head". They usually respond w/ "you're rude" or "that's not how you usually pick up a girl", then i'll just continue play the game.

Is there a point where I should start toning down?

That is rude. I'd be surprised if any decent girl would want to grab a drink with someone who opens like that. And the girls falling for it would in all likelihood be pretty damaged goods.

Why not open with something neutral that doesn't reek asshole from the start? Why shut the door on chicks that don't gobble up nuclear asshole game from the outset?

Heartiste recently shared a golden line: "How normal are you?" There are endless spin-offs to that one, based on her profile.

"I see you have pink hair. Aside from that, how normal are you?" (Commenting on something she WANTS noticed.)

"You're cute, how normal are you?" (Use only if you genuinely like her look.)

"So you're a chick that reads Dostoyevsky for fun. How normal are?" (For the cute introverts.)

Sure there are plenty of guys that use douchebag game with great success. But they're also genuine assholes. If you're not an asshole by nature, don't front. Girls see through that from a mile away. You will seem bitter instead of aloof.

[Gyro]

(06-11-2016 07:23 AM)DarianFrey Wrote:  

(06-08-2016 07:34 PM)Gyro Wrote:  

Anyways i've been experimenting w/ "Aggro asshole" game on tinder, and i'll just open up making fun of some minor feature of the girl so she gets offended like "bitch, the venice beach hippies have cleaner hair than that used mop on your head". They usually respond w/ "you're rude" or "that's not how you usually pick up a girl", then i'll just continue play the game.

Is there a point where I should start toning down?

That is rude. I'd be surprised if any decent girl would want to grab a drink with someone who opens like that. And the girls falling for it would in all likelihood be pretty damaged goods.

Why not open with something neutral that doesn't reek asshole from the start? Why shut the door on chicks that don't gobble up nuclear asshole game from the outset?

Heartiste recently shared a golden line: "How normal are you?" There are endless spin-offs to that one, based on her profile.

"I see you have pink hair. Aside from that, how normal are you?" (Commenting on something she WANTS noticed.)

"You're cute, how normal are you?" (Use only if you genuinely like her look.)

"So you're a chick that reads Dostoyevsky for fun. How normal are?" (For the cute introverts.)

Sure there are plenty of guys that use douchebag game with great success. But they're also genuine assholes. If you're not an asshole by nature, don't front. Girls see through that from a mile away. You will seem bitter instead of aloof.

I'll probably convert to a lighter insult opener (like make a comment on their clothes) but I still want to experiment with some heavy hitting aggro openers. My problem in clubs, parties, and bars has been lack of inciting an emotional response from bitches.

I feel like a total beta when I just open up with "Hey girls my name is gyro what's yours?" and then it progresses into some corny light-hearted conversation about some bullshit I don't give a fuck about or a "quirky" comment about some drunk idiot at the corner of the bar slobbering on a swamp donkey.

I like this new approach a lot better...it feels more "natural" and I don't give a fuck if I strike out, b/c it's actually fun for me now as opposed to smiling and nodding like a fucking Willie Mays bobblehead.

[Swedreams]

What do you want in terms of results?

1. Put "bitches" down, strike out, still feel like a total alpha because it wasn't the real you she rejected.
2. Get laid.

If you choose 2. you need to alter your approach. That aggro shit ain't gonna cut it. You're a 21 y/o, self-proclaimed handsome guy. You should have it easy on Tinder, once you stop cockblocking yourself.

Just talk to her like you would talk to a friend and set up a date. Once you meet her in person, have a casual conversation and when you feel it's appropriate, start touching her (eg. her leg or take her hand). If she doesn't pull back, escalate further.

If you feel unsure of how/when to touch her, I can recommend this guide: https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comme...on_ladder/ Just take baby steps and before you know it you will be kissing her.

[Gyro]

Alright guys I'm stuck in analyzing my "game" again,I need help in both IRL scenarios as well as online. I listened to the previous users and toned it down a lot but I'm having difficulty closing numbers:

(1) starting with online game, here's an example of one that went stale; I usually do good getting one response but then it stales off fast. My guess is the aggressively fast number close...these are quick responses plus initiations as well btw:

ME: Hey xyz you look like someone that's cool to tan with [she said she likes to tan with people on her profile]
How normal are you though?

the Hoe: I'd say a 8:10 weird to normal ratio

ME : My cutoff is usually a 5:10 ratio but since youre cute ill give you a pass. If you want to tan with me you need answer one question? ready?

the Hoe : Lmao I'm ready! For what?

ME : What is your cell phone number cuz we need to get this show on the road I can already tell its going to be good



I've got like a hundred interactions like this, the number close just doesn't come or comes very rarely. Should I keep this up? How's my tone? is it beta/needy or is it fine?

my real life game has a similar pattern: I get the attention, have a decent opener, then have difficulty steering the conversation towards any meaningful direction.

[kaotic]

If they aren't working that fast then maybe you'll need to build a little rapport/comfort game.

Sometimes it's easy to pull a number, sometimes you gotta ease yourself into a quick background convo then get the number.

Ex:

Match - "hey are you stalking me !?"

She laughs, or says no "then why'd I see you parked outside and take off ?"

She laughs, continue convo. Ask here where she's from, if she's born and raised, give a little of your back story (be sure to convey you're close and convenient)

Ask her about work/school, get that info, parlay it into, hobbies/sports/activities, etc

Then drop a line saying she seems pretty cool and genuine, if she wants to meet up over a drink, to see how we vibe

Ask for her number.

[Gyro]

(2) for my real life game:

I'm good at introducing myself and gaining a foothold in nightlife situations but daygame needs some serious fucking overhaul.

I'm taking a community college course over this summer and I recognized this girl from high school. I'd say i'm more attractive than her but I do find her cute so I've been trying to psyche myself up to talk to her. She slows down while walking past me in/out of class and I've seen her eye-fuck the shit out of me. she's done her part essentially and all I need to do is open up with "hey weren't you in my HS class a couple years ago? what's your name again? " but I hesitated.
Getting past these intense physiological blocks is fucking hard, but I'm going to keep at it. Any advice to psyche myself up effectively so I don't choke down my thoughts? It's the fourth day of class tomorrow, I think it would be a good time to finally talk to her.


Honestly I do believe I'm overthinking this way too much, so I'll practice getting out of my head some more. The physiological effects of anxiety are really the main pushback so I might try some phenibut tomorrow as well....my self-esteem is excellent and my confidence is fantastic, it's getting past the "in-moment" physiological "freeze" that happens right before.

[Svoboda]

Gyro,
Instead of aggro game, you should do cheeky game. Or aggro asshole game should become something like likeable/loveable asshole game.

Quote:

bitch, the venice beach hippies have cleaner hair than that used mop on your head

That's not even aggro game, that's weak or no game. Maybe Asperger game.
Totally fine to mock their hair, but it should be mocking not trying to insult.

Quote:

ME: Hey xyz you look like someone that's cool to tan with [she said she likes to tan with people on her profile]
How normal are you though?

the Hoe: I'd say a 8:10 weird to normal ratio

ME : My cutoff is usually a 5:10 ratio but since youre cute ill give you a pass. If you want to tan with me you need answer one question? ready?

the Hoe : Lmao I'm ready! For what?

ME : What is your cell phone number cuz we need to get this show on the road I can already tell its going to be good

Your game seemed better there. Her responce (bolded) shows she's interested.
I wouldn't have asked for her number yet, instead I would have asked her something silly. As an example, what's her favorite icecream?
And when she answers, you reply with a very obviously fake rant about how you usually hate people that have that as a favorite flavor.
Next message you admit to never have tried the flavor before, "we should meet up for my first bla bla flavored ice cream" etc etc.

[Rhyme or Reason]

What is pseudovirginity? You're either a virgin or you're not. Your dick has either penetrated a vaj or it hasn't.

[Gyro]

Means I've only managed to fuck hookers and escorts mate

[Clemmo]

Gyro. Where do you stay at?

[Gyro]

I go to school in east Bay Area, California

[Gyro]

Quick update about some lifestyle changes & self-reflection that I made these past couple weeks which I hope will help me improve:

The main reason I want to get rid of my pseudovirginity is because I want the male validation that comes along with, I also realize that the more I put off improving my skill with relationships/women, the more problems I will have later on down the road...so it's extremely paramount I fix this area of my life.

So i'm not really interested in the entire intimacy part which is ACTUALLY the underlying problem behind all this.

In order to approach this problem, I need to get involved with some hobby that develops my ability to become/tune into intimacy. For this I choose Tango/dancing.

I have all the material things needed to develop attraction (humor, muscles, good-looking face, full set of hair, loud, socially confident, adventurous)
BUT I don't have experience with expressing the emotional part of "gaming" (or life in general). I'm not very experienced with honest emotional expression to males, females, strangers, friends, and even family.

I've been inside my head for pretty much my entire life so far without even realizing it, but I'm making an effort to GET out from time to time.

SO... here a change I have made to tackle this problem:

---> I took a tango class this last weekend in order to get myself comfortable with intimacy.

I actually danced with a great looking girl there who told a friend that came with me that she thought I was cute; after learning this unfortunately, I really did not follow it up with substance/conversation due to anxiety build-up.

My anxiety is at its worst not during the approach or banter, but AFTER I learn that the girl is attracted.

I'm going to keep following through with the Tango because I feel like it really helped getting me to think in a way that wasn't analytical/logical and more emotional.


Also I'm trying to get involved more with my brother's post-graduation planning, I've pretty much emotionally neglected my family for my entire life and I think it's only fair if I started reciprocating from the baseline level.

I've been making more of an effort with friends as well. The only reason people have stuck with me so far is because they think i'm funny, so I'm going to attempt to add another dimension to my friendship. I'm going to do this by having more serious conversations or not "shutting down"/changing the subject (my usual response) do when something emotional is brought up.

This definitely requires some time so I'm going to relax on gunning like a madman to get laid as soon as possible and focus on slowly getting comfortable with the steps that lead up to fucking.

[Guitarman]

" is because I want the male validation that comes along with,"

wrong reason for losing your virtual virginity. Do it for YOU! not for the "validation of other males" are you gay??

"So i'm not really interested in the entire intimacy part which is ACTUALLY the underlying problem behind all this. "

that's just very, very weird! The only reason i want to get close to girls is the physical intimacy. I want to get my dick wet in their vagina. Why would you have a problem with getting intimate with women/ girls??

" For this I choose Tango/dancing. " again, sounds Gay! (real men don't dance, unless it's with a woman).

"I have all the material things needed to develop attraction (humor, muscles, good-looking face, full set of hair, loud, socially confident, adventurous)
BUT I don't have experience with expressing the emotional part of "gaming" (or life in general). I'm not very experienced with honest emotional expression to males, females, strangers, friends, and even family."

Why do you feel the need to express emotions to males?? "humor, muscles, good-looking face, full set of hair, loud, socially confident, adventurous" gay again.

"My anxiety is at its worst not during the approach or banter, but AFTER I learn that the girl is attracted."

Why?? if you know a girl likes you, it is a huge confidence boost, GAME ON!

This just doesn't add up.

[Gyro]

UPDATE

It feels like I am in the middle of solving an extremely tough math problem but I'm getting a sense of what I need to do and what tools can get me there. To be completely honest, I am actually having a lot of fucking fun fighting what is left of my social anxiety; it's keeping my mind racing to find solutions.

So I've decided to try out a couple new things:

I've already taken up some new "traditional" habits that build confidence with intimacy: Salsa/partner dance, & small talk with cashiers. I've noticed some significant improvements in my comfortability to touch people, before I'd start getting some extreme anxiety at the thought of touching another human but I'm slowly acclimating. Same with the small-talk.

I'm going to start doing Salsa twice a week for the rest of this summer. It's a lot of fucking fun as well. Already after two lessons, I feel like I can follow the rhythm of songs better.

Also have my first toastmasters meeting today; I'm hoping this is going to take my confidence to the next level.

Anxiety is just the fear of the unknown man....therefore I got to keep chipping away at the rock so that it eventually cracks. I kind of feel like I might be tackling the problem indirectly, but even-so, it makes the translation to conquering anxiety a lot easier.
I'm so glad I didn't cop out at a young age to Xanax (despite the quacks wanting me to).

[Speculation]

You need to deal with your anxiety as its probably a big contributor to your hangups.

I used to suffer from anxiety and also suffered from bouncing when girls were keen. It was just too much for me in certain circumstances and I got overwhelmed.

Once I got my anxiety under control, this problem went away. Eye contact - no problem, approach anxiety - almost disappeared, Pulling the trigger when girls were keen - Easy as pie.

I also felt more emotionally connected to girls which made it easy to moderate my game to suit the girl. The girls were automatically more comfortable because I was more comfortable.

I spent years in clubs learning game and nothing helped me as much as fixing my anxiety.

TLDR; Try to get to the bottom of why you suffer anxiety, and particularly consider if it comes from a physical source. Mine came from sleep apnea, but it could be allergies (food or otherwise), alcohol (even on the night you're drinking), drugs, or a myriad of gut irritations (ala IBS).

[C-Note]

Toastmasters and ballroom/salsa dancing are excellent pastimes to help improve your confidence and other skills. Some others if you have the time are martial arts such as boxing, Muay Thai, or BJJ, method acting, ballet (seriously), solo hiking and camping out in the boondocks, surfing, team sports, etc. When you get out and start putting yourself in different situations, it will almost always result in some unexpected adventures. You can then use those stories to build rapport with the girls you meet. Those experiences will also build your confidence.

[5kold]

This is painful to read.

[realologist]

Gyro.

Definitely tone it down. People think you are coming off as an asshole because you are behaving like an asshole.

You're doing the type of game that works for some people but obviously it's not working for you or you would have gotten some legit pussy.

Focus on your inner game and trying different styles of game. While you do that approach people not just women. See what gets the best social response from everybody and not just women. Tweak your game to fit that style. I'm sure once you do that you will get laid.

[polar]

You're trying to go too far in the "cocky asshole" direction and being offensive. And, you're not congruent.

Try to have a positive social interaction with at least one stranger a day. Desired outcome: they leave with a smile on their face. Keep up the small talk with cashiers.

Toastmasters and dance are great. I'd also suggest doing a beginners improv class or two (as in a course several weeks long), as it will loosen you up and give you momentum. Important: don't worry about gaming at these events. Treat them as opportunities to meet activity partners and make new friends. Do your gaming elsewhere.

And take a day off every week to relax and do something different. You're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, do take some time off to relax.