[Imperator.Morpheus]

This chick selected me as someone she liked on an online dating service...I got her #, tried calling, she didn't pick up. I waited about 5 days & tried again, no answer but I left a voicemail identifying myself and telling her to call back.

She texted me soon after to say she got it. I sent her a text saying (paraphrased) "I don't do the text buddy thing with girls; call me whenever you are ready or we should stop now" to which she replied "maybe I'm trying to kill ya."

Annoyed some single mother was playing games, I said "hard to get thing=+5 pts" (which ties into earlier material as you'll see below).

As I figured, she hasn't called as of a week later. I'm not worried about still pursuing her; I would like an analysis of things I did right and areas I screwed up, so here is our primary interaction: (thanks in advance guys...I've been out the game an embarassingly long time & want to be competent again)

ME
I work in your area, LOTS of fields. Wth is there to do around here for fun?!
May 16 2:17am

HER
Lol nothing at all
May 16 11:48pm

ME
An 'intervention' could be useful...Can you see yourself doing things like skydiving, cow tippin (muhhooo!), or just riding in a sleek car with a handsome young man on the cusp of great things?
May 17 1:32am

HER
Well some of them lol. I actually have cows in my back yard lol.
May 17 3:07pm

ME
I had a feeling!
Tell me about you.If i like what I hear,you can ask me questions,but we go SLOW; u could be a perv for all i know lol
May 17 3:52pm

HER
Lol I'm such a perv! I love men's butts shhh.
Butttt I'm (HER NAME) I am I'm a fun and exciting 22 year old. Like that? I have a wild and crazy almost two year old little boy. I graduated in 2014 for medical assistant. Can I check your vitals? I'll prolly make your blood pressure rise! I'll be going back to school in august for medical office. And I'm currently a stay at home mom. Woohoo! I enjoy dinner with friends, cowtipping maybe? Cuddling and window shopping. How's that?
May 17 7:47pm

ME
I enjoy having my suprarenal glands secreting healthily (+5 points)
Fun and exciting (0 points, till u prove it! )
Down w/cowtipping (+5 points)
Unsure about skydiving (-5 points, but liking butts is +5, thereby saving you)
So,10 pts= 2 questions; bring it, (edited to remove her name)
May 17 8:33pm

HER
Any children?
What do you do?
May 17 9:03pm

ME
No children, yet; but they're gonna be baaaad when I have them.
I "do" a whole lot, silly. Haha!
My turn. Do you like spending time in (edited to remove city) & is your eye color green?
May 17 9:23pm

HER
Eh don't actually go to (my city) much. Don't really have a reason to.
And yes they are green
May 17 9:28pm

ME
The ancient greeks believed the gods have green eyes. We are both gods, dude! +10 points!
I've always been big into history.
This bloody app's messing up on my phone so goodnight, (HER NAME). Think of ur next 2 questions wisely!
May 17 9:42pm

HER
Goodnight I'll think about them
May 18 4:45am

ME (I sensed I had overgamed @ this pt & tried showing a vulnerability,but i regret saying 'fast hookups')

If we keep talkin,plz,no games.
I'm used to fast hookups, & sick of it. Decided to start the "settling down"thing a week ago.Ghm,lol.
On the path a captain on that heyuge river 5 mins away.Shoot.
May 18 3:44pm

HER
A week ago?
May 18 4:40pm

ME
Progress. Tell me more about you;what are your life's goals/etc?
May 18 5:59pm

HER
Well I am a mom so im looking to get my shit together. I'm looking to find the one. I hope to hope to be married/engaged within the next 5 years and building or buying a house. And hopefully start my family. I hope to find a job that I love and make enough money that my family wouldn't have to stuggle.
May 18 7:38pm

ME
I didn't want for anything growing up & already seen the world.
So you're high maintenance? ?
May 18 8:13pm

HER
Not at all honestly.
May 19 2:25am

HER
Don't even own a car. I just know that what I don't have now, I don't want my kids to struggle with.
May 19 2:25am

ME
Idk...you've already said the word MARRIAGE & havent even asked me my name.
Is this REALLY all ya got, tiger!? If so, find someone else. raaawr! lol
May 19 3:17am

HER
I figured you were secretive about it lol. Look at you being all weird and stuff lol
May 19 2:48pm

ME
Ooohh, it's complicated?
Time we do a conversation cuz THIS is what's 'weird,'so send ur #
I have to be sure your voice isnt manly anyways (i'd change my # lol)

May 21 4:53pm
HER
Lol fineeee (HER NUMBER)
May 21 11:19pm

ME
Will call @ non crazy time when i can
Video I made when that tornado hit us @ work a few nights ago
Figure out my name w/it & I may consider lettin' u touch my butt one day, heartbr8ker. Rrraaawr!
May 22 2:25pm

Her
Lol i guess I can't touch your butt.
But you look like a Jordan?
May 22 2:44pm

ME
Oh vey, it's complicated...okcupid weird txting time's over. ill call
May 22 2:53pm
 
HER
OK lol

[LINUX]

How old are you bro ?

[Imperator.Morpheus]

I'm 29 years old

[Turnus]

That reads like an interaction between two 17 year olds.

[Adonis]

Waaaaaay too much chatting. You put yourself in the friend zone with that stuff. If a girl "likes" me, Ill shoot her a pasta and if she responds Ill throw it out right away to meet up.

For ex:

ME: copy pasta blah blah blah
HER: hehe you're funny
ME: lets grab a drink this week
HER: LOL ok
ME: smoke signal machine broken, need phone number
HER: XXX-XXXX

In your case you might want to try the emoji opener.

[Imperator.Morpheus]

Bateman, I thought we were supposed to chat first ("build rapport") when doing the online thing.

So, cut the silly bullshit, save it for later, & go for the close (when I'm "liked")? I would have thought that would lead to more "no responses." One question, when that approach works, do you call/text awaiting the meetup to build more attraction/rapport?

[Adonis]

You need to check out the OKCupid thread and what do I text next threads. Also Text scripts and Text Tricks. It depends on what type of game you're running, I stick with clownish aloof jerk and it seems to work well. But no matter what, with online you want to get them off the site and onto a text convo asap, then push for the meet. Online since everything is so "at your fingertips" the interest comes and goes quickly so you need to capitalize on it. Too many of these girls treat it like a version of Facebook. If I don't push for the number by the 3-4 msg things start cooling down.

[XPQ22]

^ In my experience, I find that 3-4 exchanges is too soon to ask for the number. I tried that for a while and nearly always got ghosted on.

If I can get to around 10 exchanges that's when I pitch. I figure if she makes it that far then she has some legitimate interest and the date might not be a waste of time.

I don't take phone numbers of girls who don't agree to dates - I always pitch the date on the site and THEN ask for the phone number for logistics. When you get a phone number without getting at least a tentative commitment you have to re-game them via text, and young girls will often give out their phone number to anyone. Without her agreeing a phone # is almost as worthless as one you grabbed from night game. I don't need my phone clogged up with more flakey numbers.

Talking about how you're used to "fast hookups" is a big mistake. IMO it's always a mistake to sexualize the conversation with an online girl before you've met in real life, unless she does so first.

"I don't do the text buddy thing with girls; call me whenever you are ready or we should stop now" - super super needy.

I don't see anything particularly wrong with OP's text game other than that, except about halfway through that exchange he should have transitioned into "pitch the meet" mode. To reiterate: don't sit there and chat with them for 20 exchanges just to get a phone #. Find a way to transition into the meet pitch, for a specific day, and get them to sign on the line on the site, or fuck 'em.

BTW this chick was a single mom with no car so not much of value was lost. One thing that's important to learn is when you've got a good prospect and when you don't, and it simply seemed like this girl wasn't a "hot lead." She was likely just sitting around bullshitting with guys online to distract her from her brats...the way she went "lol fineeee" indicates to me she actively disliked the idea of giving out her phone number, but did it anyway because by that point she figured it was the only way to keep you in texting hell. Sorry to say but I don't think this one wanted to do anything but chat, so you were dead from the start regardless of how tight your text game was. That's why screening and learning to recognize weak leads is important.

(06-04-2016 11:29 PM)Turnus Wrote:  

That reads like an interaction between two 17 year olds.

Adult women that text like children? You don't say. An interesting truism of online game in my experience...the more highly educated she seems via text, and the more her text prose resembles a college essay, the less likely you are to ever get the lay.

[Imperator.Morpheus]

This is very helpful and insightful.

Yeah, the 'fast hookups' was something I immediately regretted. It was too specific (should have been vaguely implied where she would come to such a conclusion on her own accord); and, as a statement, 'try hard' (not to mention less believable). At best, if she did believe it, her ASD was activated; and since she's a single mom desperate to find a provider for her and her illegitimate spawn, I was no longer an appropriate candidate.

Also, I took note of the fact she wasn't asking questions about me. I tried giving her vague bait (such as the fact my parents are medical professionals; she's trying to become a med assistant) but, she didn't bite. Her response times got better as things progressed (especially after the "if this is all you got find someone else" neg) but, nonetheless, I seemed to have smothered her by trying to be very dominant ("10 points, you get two questions").

I was proud of myself in some ways, such as flipping the script every time I escalated ("we go SLOW" & "give me your number but if you have a manly voice, i'll change my #" ...somewhat funny, and neutralizing concerns usually held by women about giving out their # by stating I am the one worried about sharing #'s, also a minor DHV imo).

I agree with you about going for the # close after 2-3 exchanges will lead to more freeze outs. I tried that approach a few times and they all ran for the hills. However, I imagine instances in which it does work such boldness will pay dividends with a faster lay.

What do you think of the "I don't do the text buddy thing" routine? Imho, it seems like an effective: minor DHV, dominance signal, and anti friend zoning tool.

I am very glad you mentioned how she was a bad lead to begin with. I sensed something was off the whole time, as in she isn't serious about hooking up with anybody on OKcupid. I was unable to put my finger as to why/how so.

I noticed she goes online a LOT; she's on there multiple times, daily. I guess she just wants the validation and thrill of chatting with new men; but doesn't plan on capitalizing, unless she finds an especially useful duck willing to take care of her and that bastard spawn of her's. It's crazy how most of the single moms on there post pics of them and their children in the apparent belief it's going to HELP them seduce a man (hahaha).

I want to say, it seems American women are steadily getting worse. More vain, more flakey....more everything unfeminine. I've been out the game for about 6 years and women my age at that time weren't as bad as the miserable harps nowadays.

I will try to go for the # close whenever I am able to achieve 10 exchanges from now on. I think I've got a long way to go in screening for viable leads, more advice concerning that objective would be awesome.

Again, I am very appreciative of your insight and USEFUL advice.

[XPQ22]

^ Keep in mind that you can't really tell anything about a girl's online dating usage habits from her "online" status on OKC. When you see that little green "online" tag, all that means is that the app is active on her iPhone or whatever and her phone is able to receive "push" notifications from the app. Plenty of users do that, hell I do that, because from a guy's point of view if a girl opens you or you get a response it often pays to act fast, and also just because I don't pay for "A-List" and the push notifications are the only way that I can see who "likes" me.

It doesn't necessarily mean she's continually chatting with random guys and sending messages on the site, she's probably just letting it run in the background, texting with her real life crew and painting her toenails.

[Imperator.Morpheus]

XP, I'm aware about the online status being ambiguous since I let it run in the background as well.

Anyway, I somehow missed your comment about the 'I don't do txt buddy thing' thing. It was a routine I saw on a "pua" site. I can see how it may be construed as needy; but I nonetheless feel it can be useful. It's 'pushy' yet seems assertive.

https://kennyspuathoughts.com/2013/08/08...-new-girl/

If (as you pointed out) she intended to keep me in 'texting hell,' I think it was all the better I tried that tactic. I will be hesitant to use it until I get more input.

[HankMoody]

I've written about this like 50 times, but I'll do it one more time.

Text game is like 90% of how much she likes your profile. If you're attractive and interesting, you can text "purple monkey dishwasher lets go get drinks tonight. taco joint is good" and she'll be all like "LOL tee hee ok."

If your profile is kinda meh, she'll simply enjoy the validation of sending endless text messages back and forth, mostly seeing how you react. I think it was General Stalin who said this, but online dating for women is like video games for men. Cheap entertainment, but a lot of the time they don't actually want it to turn into real life.

Right off the bat, just reading that interaction was excruciating. I do not know how any man could have the time or wherewithal to engage in so much meaningless banter. Wasting time exchanging "witty banter" over text is something low value feminine men do. I would rather spend my time doing just about anything else, even if it's just reading a book or riding my bike.

Down to the finer points:

- Stop using emocons. They're emasculating.
- Stop using ?!, it comes off as overeager
- Stop using !, it also comes off as overeager
- Don't emphasize words even if you REALLY want to. Overeager.
- rawwwr! <-- totally overeager
- Never use "lol" except in circumstances when it's totally inappropriate:

"Hank I'm so mad at you for doing that thing!"
"lol"

- Way too much texting and about inappropriate stuff like marriage and children.
- You called her "dude". Do you want a boyfriend?
- Way to much texting in general

In my opinion, you come off like this hyperactive dude trying desperately to be funny to impress her. The only thing this conversation could hope to accomplish is friend zone you. Keep in mind that even if your texts make her laugh or entertain her, that isn't going to get you laid.

Focus less on being "a good texter" and more on making your profile better, and then keeping your exchanges relatively brief. This is a good book:

https://www.amazon.com/Cracking-OKCupid-...B00TMI22G6

Well worth the $10.

[Rhyme or Reason]

(06-09-2016 08:21 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

emocons

Quote:

An 'intervention' could be useful...Can you see yourself doing things like skydiving, cow tippin (muhhooo!), or just riding in a sleek car with a handsome young man on the cusp of great things?

Lookup tryhard in the dictionary, this is what you'll see.

[XPQ22]

(06-09-2016 08:21 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

I've written about this like 50 times, but I'll do it one more time.

Text game is like 90% of how much she likes your profile. If you're attractive and interesting, you can text "purple monkey dishwasher lets go get drinks tonight. taco joint is good" and she'll be all like "LOL tee hee ok."

I've heard many tales of this "attractive and interesting profile" man, who can pull HB7+es off OKCupid or Tinder into the real world on demand, with a single text of ten words. I've yet to meet this mythical fellow, however.

I have an acquaintance about ten years younger than I, from Eastern Europe, who looks like a male model and has all the usual DHV stuff on his profile, vacations to exotic locales, and so on. He recently showed me pics and chat logs of the girls he's been (trying!) to pull from Tinder.

Are they young and attractive? You bet. What's he doing with most of them? Just bullshitting away like the OP, cuz they still don't really want to go on dates. I pressed him to stop texting so much with some of them, and be more direct about telling them to meet up, i.e. "you're in or you're out."

With predictable results. He often gets the same lines that I get, variations on "I dunno I'm not sure" "let's see" "I'm busy this week maybe next week?" and so forth, just from somewhat more attractive girls.

Quote:

If your profile is kinda meh, she'll simply enjoy the validation of sending endless text messages back and forth, mostly seeing how you react. I think it was General Stalin who said this, but online dating for women is like video games for men. Cheap entertainment, but a lot of the time they don't actually want it to turn into real life.

That was me. At this point there are so few serious women left on the sites that online "game" essentially boils down to grinding and screening. I do engage in witty banter, but the purpose of it isn't really to entertain her, it's simply to fill space and screen for whether she's interested enough that we can get to ten back-and-forths in the same afternoon of something requiring more effort than "lol ok", which implies there's a chance she might actually be interested enough to come out of her cat hole.

And many times it isn't. Girls will still ghost and flake on you hardcore, even if they're sending you enthusiastic texts of decent length all day. I'd say at this point even if I can get to 10 back-and-forth texts, my ghost to date ratio is no better than 25%.

Part of this is area - I won't belabor the point again, but New England is likely one of the hardest spots to pull on Earth. Dumpy girls are drowning up to their eyeballs in handsome, well-educated, well-employed men. Can't wait to get out...

[HankMoody]

This is why cold approaches and social circle game are so much easier. Skip through all the texting and the flakes.

[XPQ22]

(06-09-2016 03:49 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

This is why cold approaches and social circle game are so much easier. Skip through all the texting and the flakes.

Most "game" in this area as far as I can tell is social circle/fame game. New England has a long Puritan history, so combine that with modern Western culture and the area is a weird mix of ultra-feminism and tight-knit communities that are suspicious of outsiders.

By way of example, the Cambridge/Somerville/Allston area has an absolute ton of women who use Tinder and OKCupid. But I've come to understand that it's basically a big incestuous community where SWPL urban girls and the hipster men who are too afraid/conditioned to approach in real life rotate around partners with each other. In a sense online dating in these communities is a form of "social circle" game, as the size of the population is compact enough that everyone vaguely knows everyone through probably one degree of separation.

You know that you're just in too small a pool when, like has happened to me, you randomly bump into a girl or two you've banged from online dating when you're out on a Saturday night without even making any special effort. And on about a half-dozen more occasions I've seen girls at bars or clubs that I recognize from my list of "matches" but never contacted.

I've had a bit of "success" with night game, if you can call it that, but the girls who were most receptive were almost to a one girls who were recent transplants or visiting from out of town. I almost never see anyone cold approaching, and both men and women alike seem to think you're weird for doing it. Like you're dreadfully old-fashioned and behind the times at best, and seriously up to no good at worst.

The guys who are fucking killing it in this little pond are DJs, musicians, artists, bartenders, professors, and yeah probably lawyers. Whomever can leverage that social standing into bangs. The biggest difficulty with this for me is that I find many of the young men and women around here simply too intolerable and unreliable to build legitimate connections with.

[eatthishomie]

You're pursuing a single mother --- that's the first thing I noticed that was wrong.

[Off The Reservation]

isnt there a what to text next thread already?

[XPQ22]

(06-09-2016 09:49 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

You're pursuing a single mother --- that's the first thing I noticed that was wrong.

Online single moms can be alright, but among the downsides are that many of them just use online dating chatting as a distraction from the drudgery of taking care of their kid, and aren't particularly serious.

They also have an endless variety of flake excuses built in revolving around their kid. "It's my daughter's birthday this weekend" is one I got just yesterday. I've heard it before.

[Dr. Howard]

My Analysis.

You lost/went wrong at this point

Quote:

HER
Lol I'm such a perv! I love men's butts Wink shhh.
Butttt I'm (HER NAME)Smile I am I'm a fun and exciting 22 year old. Like that? I have a wild and crazy almost two year old little boy. I graduated in 2014 for medical assistant. Can I check your vitals? Wink I'll prolly make your blood pressure rise! I'll be going back to school in august for medical office. And I'm currently a stay at home mom. Woohoo! I enjoy dinner with friends, cowtipping maybe? Cuddling and window shopping. How's that?
May 17 7:47pm

She was escalating sex talk, you should have continued in that vein and probably have gotten the same night lay. Recommendations would have been playing on that 'check your vitals' and escalating with something like "you can check mine if I can check yours" classic 'play dr.' escalation.

Also, red flag...single mother that is 'currently a stay at home mom' Welfare queen or child support gold digger.

[XPQ22]

^ Right about the analysis. I wouldn't have even bothers to escalate with the sex talk though as that can backfire. I simply would've pitched the meet right then. "I like the sound of that. I'm free tonight...and you?"

Anything other than an enthusiastic "I totally am ", or a decline but followed by a solid offer of an alternate day, is a no. Move on and save yourself the indignity of needing to suffer through another lolspeak text.

Single moms with very young children are a nightmare to game anyway, and I wouldn't be surprised if she was simply just wasting time during her kid's naps or potty training sessions. Unless they're inviting you over for a same-day lay while the kid's asleep or at daycare, all your meetups will revolve around when she can get a sitter, or her deadbeat babydaddy can take the kid off her hands, and so on. Annoying.

To hell with a bitch who gets knocked up at 20.

[LouEvilSlugger]

Nothing wrong with emoticons/emojis, but use them smartly. The only punctuation you should use is ",", nothing else (I think Heartiste came up with that). And lastly: if you had to think more than a couple of seconds to think of what you were to going to tex or if it's longer than 1-2 lines, don't sent it!

[Remington]

Wrote up a data sheet for this: thread-3601-...pid1171048

[WeekendCasanova]

(06-05-2016 02:26 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

^ In my experience, I find that 3-4 exchanges is too soon to ask for the number. I tried that for a while and nearly always got ghosted on.

I used to wait until I established a bit more rapport, but currently (and my method goes through cyclical changes), I ask for the number within those 3/4 messages. Saves myself time, as I don't really care about the 50% of women or whatever the percentage is that don't give me their number.

For the ones that say "I don't give my number out that easily" I simply cease contact. I don't have time to play into a girls online validation-seeking dog and pony show. Since the majority of my results come from night/day game, I don't really want to spend the time building rapport with a girl on a dating app. Ask for the number, if you get it great, if not, great as well because you just saved yourself some battery life

[XPQ22]

(06-10-2016 07:45 PM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

For the ones that say "I don't give my number out that easily" I simply cease contact. I don't have time to play into a girls online validation-seeking dog and pony show. Since the majority of my results come from night/day game, I don't really want to spend the time building rapport with a girl on a dating app. Ask for the number, if you get it great, if not, great as well because you just saved yourself some battery life

It's why while though I do let the conversation go on a little longer sometimes, I always pitch the meet right on the site, not just ask for a number. To my mind, there's no difference in asking for a number via the site, and then continuing to BS then pitch the date via text, than pitching right then and there to see if she agrees.

I only take her phone number for logistics planning after she's pretty much signed on the line to the best of any girl's ability, i.e. agreed to a day and agreed to my tentative suggestion of a date idea. If she's not with it at that point then I've saved an extra step, and don't clog up my phone with BS numbers that won't ever come through.

IMO numbers without a commitment from online game are worth about as much as a phone number taken at a nightclub, i.e. not much. Chicks will hand out their number to anybody if you don't put any pressure on.