[Leonard D Neubache]

“At least once every human should have to run for his life, to teach him that milk does not come from supermarkets, that safety does not come from policemen, that 'news' is not something that happens to other people. He might learn how his ancestors lived and that he himself is no different--in the crunch his life depends on his agility, alertness, and personal resourcefulness.”

― Robert A. Heinlein

You build a great technological civilisation. Life becomes easy. Men become lazy and diffident. The ensuing degradation then leads to collapse, invasion or both.

Lame.

So if you had a chance to tweak society right from the ground floor how would you change it in order to make sure that men didn't turn into soft-bellied wimps?

The question came to me recently during one of the rare occasions I use public transport, and I thought "what would it be like if our nation's constitution demanded that once per year (the weekend closest to your birthday perhaps) you had to engage in a three minute fight with one of your fellow male citizens, bare knuckled, no holds barred.

The Spartans lived at the full-retard-violent end of the scale. Various European states seem to live at the full-retard-pacifist end. What's a healthy middleground look like and how would you give it a chance to survive multiple generations of prosperity?

[NewMeta]

Women cant vote, no rights at all, there place is at home, raising the family.
Men have to serve mandatory time in the army (3 years) like Israel.
Build a wall.
liberalism, feminism and anything under the umbrella of marxism is considered treason and punished accordingly.
Christianity is the foundation of society.

Those are some good starting points.

[Buck Wild]

(05-14-2016 09:28 AM)NewMeta Wrote:  

Women cant vote, no rights at all, there place is at home, raising the family.
Men have to serve mandatory time in the army (3 years) like Israel.
Build a wall.
liberalism, feminism and anything under the umbrella of marxism is considered treason and punished accordingly.
Christianity is the foundation of society.

Those are some good starting points.

Over the long run, this too is doomed. All would be well initially, but as such a society began to amass wealth and a measure of stability and even luxury, certain factions of men would seek to betray such a paradigm purely out of self-interest. Eventually, alphas would conspire to raise the status of women to gain further leverage over betas and to reinforce their own status. Unable to compete on status, betas would eventually weaken the social order by means of a sub rosa--and misguided--sexual strategy that seeks to trade identification and ideological compliance with women as a qualification for their intimacy. Women would play the whole scenario to lets-you-and-him-fight perfection and the whole party would start all over again.

Look, guys: civilization is not a linear process--it is a cyclical one. That's the core truth here. All successful, prosperous civilizations carry within them the seeds of their own destruction. There is no cure for this because there is no cure for us. All that can be done is to prepare to withstand the storm. There are no "do-overs"---this is it and it probably couldn't have been any other way. Get money, get pussy and either build your tribe & find that unicorn (unlikely) or abscond to friendlier shores.

Thought experiments like this are fine and okay as long as we don't lose sight of this.

[AnonymousBosch]

(05-14-2016 07:35 PM)Buck Wild Wrote:  

Look, guys: civilization is not a linear process--it is a cyclical one. That's the core truth here. All successful, prosperous civilizations carry within them the seeds of their own destruction. There is no cure for this because there is no cure for us.

Great observation.

I've been increasingly-coming to this same conclusion. Sometimes the sea is calm, sometime tempestuous, but eventually a seemingly-strong cliff gives away and crumbles into the ocean due to the inevitable process of of erosion.

[Leonard Bernstein]

Society is something that you cannot change. Although it is an evolving system, you as an individual have no control over how it will evolve. The only thing we can control is our understanding of it, which we can best use to our own advantage.

When it comes to Western decay, the question should never be "how can we change Western society", but rather "what can I do, within this social context, to optimize my goals and my happiness".

[RexImperator]

Ecclesiastes 1 NKJV Wrote:

"Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher;
“Vanity of vanities, all is vanity.”
3 What profit has a man from all his labor
In which he toils under the sun?
4 One generation passes away, and another generation comes;
But the earth abides forever.
5 The sun also rises, and the sun goes down,
And hastens to the place where it arose.
6 The wind goes toward the south,
And turns around to the north;
The wind whirls about continually,
And comes again on its circuit.
7 All the rivers run into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full;
To the place from which the rivers come,
There they return again.
8 All things are full of labor;
Man cannot express it.
The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
Nor the ear filled with hearing.
9 That which has been is what will be,
That which is done is what will be done,
And there is nothing new under the sun.
10 Is there anything of which it may be said,
“See, this is new”?
It has already been in ancient times before us.
11 There is no remembrance of former things,
Nor will there be any remembrance of things that are to come
By those who will come after.

[CynicalContrarian]

Nothing created by man will ever be perfect, because man is not perfect.

[CynicalContrarian]

Although, instilling aptitude tests for voting & child bearing would aid in slowing down societal collapse.

[germanico]

Heinlenian politics: Every citizen can opt at any time to serve the country 1 year without pay or 2 years with pay. They will be given food and board for that year, will have to follow orders under military discipline and will do whatever they are assigned to. Most should serve in the army but can also do their service as guinea pigs or as assistants to higher officers, as medical assistants, or in the peace corps. Military discipline should be maintained even in clerical roles.

Only those that do the time can vote or be elected to any government office. This service could also be done as an opt-in service in lieu of doing time for minor crimes, (even violent ones, as in "send the though ones to do what they do best" ) but then the citizen will not be eligible for office, only voluntary service gives you the right to vote or be voted.

Guess which crowd will end up taking all the important decisions and which crowd will have no choice but to man up or shut up.

Simpler solution: spend more time in the company of men doing manly things. Raise a barn or go fishing or lift weights or practice mma. Men today get to spend very little time with other men in unsupervised, non pc-policed environments. Stablish an atmosphere of "a brother shall not be judged but by his actions and his value to the tribe", give your mates a chance to be men, to make their own choices and front their own mistakes, but to do so knowing that his fellow men have their backs.

[EDantes]

I'd start by making sports of physical education mandatory in all public schools; maybe even requiring a year of military reserve training like they do in Switzerland; female and male students and staff would have segregated classes.

In addition I'd ban junk food purchases via food stamps and other forms of welfare

I'd also defund public schools and colleges which provide classes like "women's studies".

[Leonard D Neubache]

Cheers, guys.

The topic is as much in jest as in seriousness. I realise there are no do-overs and there is certainly no altering the course at this point. It's sometimes simply interesting to ponder the matter.

Heinlein's Terran Federation from Starship Troopers suggests a kind of meritocracy which personally makes a lot of sense to me. Certainly universal suffrage or anything close to it is proving to be a disaster in the long run.

[R_Niko]

The solution as I see it is for men to simply hold women accountable for their choices and in doing so stop throwing other men under the bus for women's sake. eg. hold women accountable for their choice of man, their financial decisions, their job performances, etc. If every man did that in unison, there'd be no more gynocentrism.

But that will never, ever happen.

[EDantes]

On a society wide level I believe lowered testosterone likely plays a role; lack of exercise, awful diets, and activities like TV and video gaming taking the place of sports and physical activities. Not to mention androgynous desk jobs taking the place of manual labor and allowing women to outperform men due to it better suiting them.

If the economy makes a drastic change we will probably see a natural shift back toward traditional masculinity; I don't think these society wide things can be pinned down to a single cause such as "feminism", "the media", etc; I believe economic changes are the primary thing which is responsible, the other things are more symptoms than causes.

(The economic boom after WWII in America is what caused most of the economic changes outlined above).

[Valentine]

Prevent the formation of the central banking cartel.

They own the media, government, education system, etc and are single-handedly responsible for the destruction of masculinity in order to control society.

[NewMeta]

(05-16-2016 04:23 PM)R_Niko Wrote:  

The solution as I see it is for men to simply hold women accountable for their choices and in doing so stop throwing other men under the bus for women's sake. eg. hold women accountable for their choice of man, their financial decisions, their job performances, etc. If every man did that in unison, there'd be no more gynocentrism.

But that will never, ever happen.

You cant hold women accountable, that is like holding children accountable, they just dont know any better. Men have to be in control of the women (father from an early age, partner from a later age) not allow them responsibility, we have seen first hand what they do with it.

Just bring back patriarchy basically.