[911]

(05-13-2016 02:51 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 02:13 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Historically Mohammed unified a massive region and many races and established a rule of law higher than the tribal blood-feud system.

He didn't unify anything.

He conquered.

It was more of a globalist, empire-building enterprise, like the Roman Empire, than a pure military conquest like the Huns or the Mongols. The Romans conquered the tribes and nations around the Mediterranean and Europe, but they subsequently held on to their gains by changing the cultures of conquered nations, getting them to buy into their cultural model. Romans were the first globalists. They had several "foreign" rulers from Africa and Syria actually running their empire.

Like the Romans, the Muslims also got non-Arabian people to adopt their language, to the point where local languages like Arameic (the semitic language spoken by Jesus) or Berber went nearly extinct.

The muslim empire was also built on more powerful hostile neighbors invading the muslim heartland then converting. That's how most of central Asia became muslim, and how it spread into India. Islam was also built with trade in places like Indonesia or West Africa.

Supposedly the Vikings and other western tribes who traded extensively with the Arabs would have also adopted islam if it wasn't for the strict sobriety laws, that was probably a deal breaker.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(05-13-2016 11:29 AM)Horus Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 10:59 AM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

Yes what seems to be written in the Quran is that Muslims should emulate their prophet. So for that there's a chain of narrators playing telephone relaying the only source of that. So of course you're going to need scholars for that.

Not to mention the Hadith/Sunnah does not trump anything in the Quran itself therefore making the former more general guidelines than fanatical ways of life(like you could argue the book states). Holding loose guidelines as the equivalent of supposed moral law is redundant and lazy researching on your part. So yes your lazy argument still does not stand.

And yet Sharia law has basis in not only the unalterable word of the Holy Koran, but also the the hadiths and Surah. These "loose guidelines" are the reason that the Islamic world, and Muslims in general, suck balls. My lazy argument does stand.

I call that a flaw in Islamic culture and attitude. Cherry picking has always been a hobby of every Muslim Empire since the dawn of time. Shit there's quite a few great local Turkish beers and alcohol that are brewed there today.

So I raise you a question here. Alright it's established that Muslim culture and attitude are shitty. A more constructive question being how can this all be solved rather than adopting a convert or die policy towards 2 Billion or so people(springing up a further martyr complex bigger than the current one)?

My answer being putting in stable secular strongmen like Assad. That's the only tried and true solution that has worked in that area for a thousand or so years.

[AboveAverageJoe]

i think we have had enough regime change for one lifetime.

[AboveAverageJoe]

Also, Mohammed married a Jewish wife named Rhianna, does that make him pro Jewish? Like many leaders at the time marriages were mostly political and were about building alliances and not about sex or love.

[911]

(05-13-2016 10:39 PM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Also, Mohammed married a Jewish wife named Rhianna, does that make him pro Jewish? Like many leaders at the time marriages were mostly political and were about building alliances and not about sex or love.

From wikiislam.net (not a muslim friendly site actually):

Muhammad’s Wives mean age at the time he married them:
Khadijah’s Median Age = 26 years and 10 months.
Sawdah’s Approximate Age = 40 years.
Aisha’s Median Age = 9 years and 3 months.
Hafsah’s Median Age = 19 years and 6 months.
Zaynab bint Khuzayma’s Median Age = 28 years and 4 months.
Hind’s Median Age = 28 years and 6 months.
Zaynab bint Jahsh’s Median Age = 37 years and 2 months.
Juwayriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.
Safiyah’s Age = 16 years and 6 months.
Ramlah’s Median Age = 34 years and 7 months.
Maymunah’s Median Age = 35 years and 2 months.
Mulaykah’s Approximate Age = 13 years.
Asma’s Maximum Age = 20 years.
Amrah’s Approximate Age = 15 years.

Given that there is some scholarly debate about Asha's actual age and that she is clearly an outlier, I think that the portrayal of Mohamed as a pedophile is a bit tenuous.

This being said, why did he have so many wives? Didn't he limit his followers to 4 wives, and if he is supposed to be a role model, isn't that hypocritical?

[cubanlinx]

Ya know, I thought Kadijah was a widow of 40 something. But it says 26 on the site. A median of 26 means some big estimates on either side.

[mikado]

I think he married that many women to establish alliances, and not make some Quraish or Madinan tribes feel left out that he chose a wife from one and not from another.

Supposedly that's why when he arrived at Madina, it was his camel who chose the house where to live, so that no one could blame him (or the camel) for making the choice.

About the topic at debate: I will stay out of it, since I am not the best debater, and pretty much every one I see debating in favor of Islam ends up banned.

[Leonard D Neubache]

What Mohammed did and what you find in the koran is largely irrelevant because modern day muslim apologists will simply say "in the context of the era yada yada yada". Ergo you will get no traction on that issue.

You approach the situation thusly.

When debating with a mulsim ask them, "Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn marriage and sexual intercourse for anyone below the legal age of 16 (or whatever the age is in your nation)?"

I have yet to hear of one that will. This is the issue. Muslims delight in bogging down debates on islam with tedious interpretations of the Koran and it's various spinoffs. If you want to cut to the heart of the matter regarding how well islam will or will not fit in with a modern western society then simply ask a muslim to condemn before Allah and all other muslims a behaviour that the rest of us non-muslims find utterly repugnant.

"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any form of punishment for gays being gay or committing acts of homosexuality?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn a woman's word being worth half of a man's in court?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn taking more than one wife?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn those who do violence in the service of islam?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn the command of death for apostasy?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for a woman travelling unaccompanied?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for a woman refusing to wear so much as a burqa?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for someone choosing to consume alcohol?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for Jews and Christians refusing to pay the jizya?"

The list goes on and one and on.

Ask a muslim to state what their beliefs are personally in a plain and open manner, and it soon becomes apparent just how rosy a future the west has with it's new visitors in tow.

[mikado]

(05-14-2016 05:06 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

What Mohammed did and what you find in the koran is largely irrelevant because modern day muslim apologists will simply say "in the context of the era yada yada yada". Ergo you will get no traction on that issue.

You approach the situation thusly.

When debating with a mulsim ask them, "Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn marriage and sexual intercourse for anyone below the legal age of 16 (or whatever the age is in your nation)?"

I have yet to hear of one that will. This is the issue. Muslims delight in bogging down debates on islam with tedious interpretations of the Koran and it's various spinoffs. If you want to cut to the heart of the matter regarding how well islam will or will not fit in with a modern western society then simply ask a muslim to condemn before Allah and all other muslims a behaviour that the rest of us non-muslims find utterly repugnant.

"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any form of punishment for gays being gay or committing acts of homosexuality?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn a woman's word being worth half of a man's in court?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn taking more than one wife?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn those who do violence in the service of islam?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn the command of death for apostasy?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for a woman travelling unaccompanied?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for a woman refusing to wear so much as a burqa?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for someone choosing to consume alcohol?"
"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for Jews and Christians refusing to pay the jizya?"

The list goes on and one and on.

Ask a muslim to state what their beliefs are personally in a plain and open manner, and it soon becomes apparent just how rosy a future the west has with it's new visitors in tow.

"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn marriage and sexual intercourse for anyone below the legal age of 16 (or whatever the age is in your nation)?"

My sister got propositioned for marriage by an old fart of 50+ when she was 15 or 16, to be her third wife. Disgusting.
In Senegal, marriage with very young girls happen more rarely, and pretty much only in rural zones. In the city there is none of that. We like to keep that shit away.



"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any form of punishment for gays being gay or committing acts of homosexuality?"

Indeed. I hate homosexuality but for me killing or punishing people for being gay is way outdated.


"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn a woman's word being worth half of a man's in court?"

I am all in favor of giving the same worth to everyone, man, woman, president, unemployed.



"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn taking more than one wife?"
On this issue I do not condemn it. However I am in favour of respecting the resident country's law. You can take 4 in Senegal but you can't in France.


"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn those who do violence in the service of islam?"
Indeed. I refere myself to the verse that says that if someone kills a innocent people it is as if he killed the whole humanity.



"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn the command of death for apostasy?"

Personally I think we should not kill the apostate.

"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for a woman travelling unaccompanied?"

I think women can be unaccompanied, but should spend some time at home with their family instead of going outside to get wasted or get foreign dick.

"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for a woman refusing to wear so much as a burqa?"

Burqa is not a islamic tradition. Islam does not say anywhere women have to wear a burqa. That is only a traditionnal piece of cloth. If you talk about the hidjab however, then I don't care at all. In Senegal women can choose to wear it or not (Chic women, and mature women especially wear more usually a "musoor", not a veil but something like this)





"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for someone choosing to consume alcohol?"

I think alcohol should not be consumed in public in very religious countries. If you find out someone is consuming it, for me a public shame at most should be given.


"Before Allah and all other muslims will you condemn any punishment for Jews and Christians refusing to pay the jizya?"

For all I know, in my country of origin (Senegal) we have approximatively 4% of chirstians for 95% muslims and there isn't a single religion issue. We give them gifts and meat when it's an AID, and they give us gifts and ngalakh, some potion made of peanut butter when it's Easter.



Did I pass your test?


I often see people associating people of western african countries of muslim majority with the exact behaviour that happens with people of maghreb origin. Give me a fucking break.

The thing is more like: the more close to Arab and Middle East your culture is, the more you run the risk to behave like them. Have some love (or at least, consideration) for people closer to Sufi tradition (like my country )

[Horus]

(05-13-2016 09:48 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

So I raise you a question here. Alright it's established that Muslim culture and attitude are shitty. A more constructive question being how can this all be solved rather than adopting a convert or die policy towards 2 Billion or so people(springing up a further martyr complex bigger than the current one)?

My answer being putting in stable secular strongmen like Assad. That's the only tried and true solution that has worked in that area for a thousand or so years.

I agree with you 100%. Brutal ideologies such as Islam require brutal dictators for there to any semblance of a functioning society. The majority of the Muslim world only responds to force and fear. The idea that we can transplant democracy into these countries, which requires a high-trust society, the ability to negotiate and so on, is retarded. It was a terrible idea to get rid of Saddam Hussain in Iraq and Qaddafi in Libya Although they were both brutal dictators, they kept their country together by force for decades and posed no threat to the West, and soon as they were gone the countries descended into chaos. The exact same thing is happening in Syria and it will be a disaster if Assad is deposed. Is the West doing this on purpose, or are they just profoundly stupid?

[Horus]

(05-13-2016 11:46 PM)911 Wrote:  

Given that there is some scholarly debate about Asha's actual age and that she is clearly an outlier, I think that the portrayal of Mohamed as a pedophile is a bit tenuous.

As the saying goes, you could build 100 bridges, but nobody will ever call you a bridge builder. But suck just one cock, and you are a cocksucker.

It's the same here. If you have fucked just one child, it doesn't matter how many sexually mature women you have fucked, you are still a pedophile.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(05-14-2016 05:57 AM)mikado Wrote:  

My sister got propositioned for marriage by an old fart of 50+ when she was 15 or 16, to be her third wife. Disgusting.
In Senegal, marriage with very young girls happen more rarely, and pretty much only in rural zones. In the city there is none of that. We like to keep that shit away.

Indeed. I hate homosexuality but for me killing or punishing people for being gay is way outdated.

I am all in favor of giving the same worth to everyone, man, woman, president, unemployed.

On this issue I do not condemn it. However I am in favour of respecting the resident country's law. You can take 4 in Senegal but you can't in France.

Indeed. I refere myself to the verse that says that if someone kills a innocent people it is as if he killed the whole humanity.

Personally I think we should not kill the apostate.

I think women can be unaccompanied, but should spend some time at home with their family instead of going outside to get wasted or get foreign dick.

Burqa is not a islamic tradition. Islam does not say anywhere women have to wear a burqa. That is only a traditionnal piece of cloth. If you talk about the hidjab however, then I don't care at all. In Senegal women can choose to wear it or not (Chic women, and mature women especially wear more usually a "musoor", not a veil but something like this)

I think alcohol should not be consumed in public in very religious countries. If you find out someone is consuming it, for me a public shame at most should be given.

For all I know, in my country of origin (Senegal) we have approximatively 4% of chirstians for 95% muslims and there isn't a single religion issue. We give them gifts and meat when it's an AID, and they give us gifts and ngalakh, some potion made of peanut butter when it's Easter.

Did I pass your test?

I often see people associating people of western african countries of muslim majority with the exact behaviour that happens with people of maghreb origin. Give me a fucking break.

The thing is more like: the more close to Arab and Middle East your culture is, the more you run the risk to behave like them. Have some love (or at least, consideration) for people closer to Sufi tradition (like my country )

Your personal views are the least fundamentalist of any muslim I have questioned as per the above. That said, it is still clear that if muslims even of your more gentle persuasion were ever to gain democratic power in my nation then the way of life of me and my family would be dramatically altered.

By your own admission polygamy would be on the up and alcohol consumption would be on the down (to say the least).

Like most muslims you state that killing the innocent is not allowed, knowing full well that the koran dictates many crimes that immediately strip non-believers of such innocence.

Your statement that you personally don't think apostasy should merit death indicates to me that you are aware of a widespread opinion among muslims to the contrary.

And as I said, your answers, if honest, are the least fundamental of any I have received from a muslim. And of course, there is the striking fact that you refused to give a simple "yes" answer to any of the questions.

[mikado]

(05-14-2016 07:09 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 05:57 AM)mikado Wrote:  

My sister got propositioned for marriage by an old fart of 50+ when she was 15 or 16, to be her third wife. Disgusting.
In Senegal, marriage with very young girls happen more rarely, and pretty much only in rural zones. In the city there is none of that. We like to keep that shit away.

Indeed. I hate homosexuality but for me killing or punishing people for being gay is way outdated.

I am all in favor of giving the same worth to everyone, man, woman, president, unemployed.

On this issue I do not condemn it. However I am in favour of respecting the resident country's law. You can take 4 in Senegal but you can't in France.

Indeed. I refere myself to the verse that says that if someone kills a innocent people it is as if he killed the whole humanity.

Personally I think we should not kill the apostate.

I think women can be unaccompanied, but should spend some time at home with their family instead of going outside to get wasted or get foreign dick.

Burqa is not a islamic tradition. Islam does not say anywhere women have to wear a burqa. That is only a traditionnal piece of cloth. If you talk about the hidjab however, then I don't care at all. In Senegal women can choose to wear it or not (Chic women, and mature women especially wear more usually a "musoor", not a veil but something like this)

I think alcohol should not be consumed in public in very religious countries. If you find out someone is consuming it, for me a public shame at most should be given.

For all I know, in my country of origin (Senegal) we have approximatively 4% of chirstians for 95% muslims and there isn't a single religion issue. We give them gifts and meat when it's an AID, and they give us gifts and ngalakh, some potion made of peanut butter when it's Easter.

Did I pass your test?

I often see people associating people of western african countries of muslim majority with the exact behaviour that happens with people of maghreb origin. Give me a fucking break.

The thing is more like: the more close to Arab and Middle East your culture is, the more you run the risk to behave like them. Have some love (or at least, consideration) for people closer to Sufi tradition (like my country )

Your personal views are the least fundamentalist of any muslim I have questioned as per the above. That said, it is still clear that if muslims even of your more gentle persuasion were ever to gain democratic power in my nation then the way of life of me and my family would be dramatically altered.

By your own admission polygamy would be on the up and alcohol consumption would be on the down (to say the least).

Like most muslims you state that killing the innocent is not allowed, knowing full well that the koran dictates many crimes that immediately strip non-believers of such innocence.

Your statement that you personally don't think apostasy should merit death indicates to me that you are aware of a widespread opinion among muslims to the contrary.

And as I said, your answers, if honest, are the least fundamental of any I have received from a muslim. And of course, there is the striking fact that you refused to give a simple "yes" answer to any of the questions.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

"By your own admission polygamy would be on the up and alcohol consumption would be on the down (to say the least)."

Read what I wrote please. I said in Senegal it would stay at 4 and in the West to 1. Anyone who knows my postings a bit on this forum freaking knows that I am not advocating for sharia in any manner in Europe, and that I want to live in Europe and integrate. I still believe polygamy should not be allowed in Europe and I am sure I already said it on the forum. You are just trying to push your views on me. Leave me out of this please.

"Like most muslims you state that killing the innocent is not allowed, knowing full well that the koran dictates many crimes that immediately strip non-believers of such innocence."

Ad hominem much? I merely stated that I would not kill any innocent because I refer to that verse, so what are you insinuating? Do you know me? Did I ever push on this forum for killing anyone? If millions of people believe in that, does it still make me a problem just by association?


"Your statement that you personally don't think apostasy should merit death indicates to me that you are aware of a widespread opinion among muslims to the contrary. "

Man, some of my very close family members are for the killing.
So? Why should I care about what others think? I live my religion the way I think it's best for me. Many Muslim people think alcohol should not be allowed. I drink alcohol (not too much, because of these muscle gains). So what?


"And as I said, your answers, if honest, are the least fundamental of any I have received from a muslim.

Of course, if I was any bit of a fundamentalist I doubt I would have ended up on this forum, or even BE A TRUMP SUPPORTER. Even among those who are the least muslim friendly here (Samseau, A2D, Teedub, Horus, TheBeast1 etc) , I think most of them would still go and have a beer with me, and acknowledge me in their neighbourhood.

"And of course, there is the striking fact that you refused to give a simple "yes" answer to any of the questions."

I thought a forum was about developing one's opinion and explaining it?

[911]

(05-14-2016 06:07 AM)Horus Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 11:46 PM)911 Wrote:  

Given that there is some scholarly debate about Asha's actual age and that she is clearly an outlier, I think that the portrayal of Mohamed as a pedophile is a bit tenuous.

As the saying goes, you could build 100 bridges, but nobody will ever call you a bridge builder. But suck just one cock, and you are a cocksucker.

It's the same here. If you have fucked just one child, it doesn't matter how many sexually mature women you have fucked, you are still a pedophile.

Disagree, pedophiles will invariably have a pattern of behavior. I am not an expert on islam nor have I read the koran, but the guy married 14 women and one of them might or might not have been pre-pubescent, so it's a very flimsy charge, objectively speaking.

Quote:

I agree with you 100%. Brutal ideologies such as Islam require brutal dictators for there to any semblance of a functioning society. The majority of the Muslim world only responds to force and fear. The idea that we can transplant democracy into these countries, which requires a high-trust society, the ability to negotiate and so on, is retarded. It was a terrible idea to get rid of Saddam Hussain in Iraq and Qaddafi in Libya Although they were both brutal dictators, they kept their country together by force for decades and posed no threat to the West, and soon as they were gone the countries descended into chaos. The exact same thing is happening in Syria and it will be a disaster if Assad is deposed.

You have several muslim countries like Malaysia, Lebanon, Senegal or Turkey that are democratic, so muslim societies are not necessarily incompatible with democracy. Have you traveled to these countries? I've actually been in all four. KL, Penang, Istanbul, Beirut, Dakar are all great cities with generally more conservative but hardly repressive cultural standards.

Countries like Syria, Iraq or Iran used to have democracies as well back in the 1950s before foreign interference brought about dictatorships (look up Operation Ajax in Iran).

Quote:

Is the West doing this on purpose, or are they just profoundly stupid?

The problem in countries like Iraq, Syria or Libya today is that they have been subjected to more aggressive foreign interventions due to the takeover of US and western policy by neocons, whose loyalties lie exclusively with Israel, and who have been applying the Oded Yinon Plan, which advocates the balkanization of the middle east and the fostering of chaos and radical sectarian strife through the emergence of radical religious movements.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/greater-isr...st/5324815

http://www.voltairenet.org/article186019.html

[AboveAverageJoe]

Not to derail, but wouldnt it be a good thing if a womans word was worth one half of a mans in a court of law? Then it would take two lying bitches to make a false rape charge stick.

[Kid Twist]

As many in this thread are aware, the key to exposing and embarrassing Islam, is precisely that:

Talk about the life and deeds of their prophet, who is mentioned in the Quran (I believe 96 times?) as the best "mode of conduct" = exemplary human being.

The man's life is indefensible to anyone who loves goodness, beauty and truth.

Like to Leonard's questions, there will be no answer, because deep down they know he was filth.

[The Beast1]

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Man, some of my very close family members are for the killing.
So? Why should I care about what others think? I live my religion the way I think it's best for me. Many Muslim people think alcohol should not be allowed. I drink alcohol (not too much, because of these muscle gains). So what?

If you're not willing to take your entire religion to heart from top to bottom what good is following it?

Or are you following Taqiyya to try and hide amongst non-believers?

Contrary to popular belief, there are no such claims to such in the Christian Bible. The old testament is written as a prophecy to God's Chosen people with the new testament being the answer to that prophecy. Nowhere does Jesus' message (or even Paul's) come close to the dastardly writings contained within the Koran and Hadiths.

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Of course, if I was any bit of a fundamentalist I doubt I would have ended up on this forum, or even BE A TRUMP SUPPORTER. Even among those who are the least muslim friendly here (Samseau, A2D, Teedub, Horus, TheBeast1 etc) , I think most of them would still go and have a beer with me, and acknowledge me in their neighbourhood.

I don't really trust any Muslims on the sheer basis of Taqiyya alone. A beer drinking Muslim is about as misplaced as a gay Christian pastor. Sorry bud.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Stop putting words in my mouth.

"By your own admission polygamy would be on the up and alcohol consumption would be on the down (to say the least)."

Read what I wrote please. I said in Senegal it would stay at 4 and in the West to 1.

Anyone who knows my postings a bit on this forum freaking knows that I am not advocating for sharia in any manner in Europe, and that I want to live in Europe and integrate. I still believe polygamy should not be allowed in Europe and I am sure I already said it on the forum. You are just trying to push your views on me. Leave me out of this please.

You seem to fail to grasp how a democracy works. One wife per man isn't some by-product of the air of Europe or it's soil or its water. It's a question of cultural upbringing and the expression of that upbringing through democracy. Under Democracy more muslims = more sharia law.

Quote:

Ad hominem much? I merely stated that I would not kill any innocent because I refer to that verse, so what are you insinuating? Do you know me? Did I ever push on this forum for killing anyone? If millions of people believe in that, does it still make me a problem just by association?

You can use that argument to defend yourself but not to defend islam. Your defense of your own standards in life seems to largely be "I swim in the very shallow end of islam". Fantastic, but islam itself is defined by the average.

Quote:

Man, some of my very close family members are for the killing.
So? Why should I care about what others think? I live my religion the way I think it's best for me. Many Muslim people think alcohol should not be allowed. I drink alcohol (not too much, because of these muscle gains). So what?

Again, your argument is that you're a good person but many other muslims are not. You ought then to fully understand why people like me are adamant that muslim immigration into the west is a huge mistake. Because for every Mikado we get we're going to get eight sharia supporters and one extremist.

Quote:

Of course, if I was any bit of a fundamentalist I doubt I would have ended up on this forum, or even BE A TRUMP SUPPORTER. Even among those who are the least muslim friendly here (Samseau, A2D, Teedub, Horus, TheBeast1 etc) , I think most of them would still go and have a beer with me, and acknowledge me in their neighbourhood.

I'm still not certain what your tack is here. You again define your ability to assimilate in our culture based on your ability to distance yourself from islam.

[mikado]

(05-14-2016 09:58 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Man, some of my very close family members are for the killing.
So? Why should I care about what others think? I live my religion the way I think it's best for me. Many Muslim people think alcohol should not be allowed. I drink alcohol (not too much, because of these muscle gains). So what?

If you're not willing to take your entire religion to heart from top to bottom what good is following it?

Or are you following Taqiyya to try and hide amongst non-believers?

Contrary to popular belief, there are no such claims to such in the Christian Bible. The old testament is written as a prophecy to God's Chosen people with the new testament being the answer to that prophecy. Nowhere does Jesus' message (or even Paul's) come close to the dastardly writings contained within the Koran and Hadiths.
I do follow many precepts of it, and some not. Just the same as, like, majority of christian people???

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Of course, if I was any bit of a fundamentalist I doubt I would have ended up on this forum, or even BE A TRUMP SUPPORTER. Even among those who are the least muslim friendly here (Samseau, A2D, Teedub, Horus, TheBeast1 etc) , I think most of them would still go and have a beer with me, and acknowledge me in their neighbourhood.

I don't really trust any Muslims on the sheer basis of Taqiyya alone. A beer drinking Muslim is about as misplaced as a gay Christian pastor. Sorry bud.

Sure, if you are that paranoid about it, then ok. I like to keep hope and faith in people, whatever their religion is. Maybe I am too naive. Actually this forum is the first place where I EVER heard about the concept of Taqiyya.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(05-14-2016 10:28 AM)mikado Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 09:58 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Man, some of my very close family members are for the killing.
So? Why should I care about what others think? I live my religion the way I think it's best for me. Many Muslim people think alcohol should not be allowed. I drink alcohol (not too much, because of these muscle gains). So what?

If you're not willing to take your entire religion to heart from top to bottom what good is following it?

Or are you following Taqiyya to try and hide amongst non-believers?

Contrary to popular belief, there are no such claims to such in the Christian Bible. The old testament is written as a prophecy to God's Chosen people with the new testament being the answer to that prophecy. Nowhere does Jesus' message (or even Paul's) come close to the dastardly writings contained within the Koran and Hadiths.
I do follow many precepts of it, and some not. Just the same as, like, majority of christian people???

(05-14-2016 08:41 AM)mikado Wrote:  

Of course, if I was any bit of a fundamentalist I doubt I would have ended up on this forum, or even BE A TRUMP SUPPORTER. Even among those who are the least muslim friendly here (Samseau, A2D, Teedub, Horus, TheBeast1 etc) , I think most of them would still go and have a beer with me, and acknowledge me in their neighbourhood.

I don't really trust any Muslims on the sheer basis of Taqiyya alone. A beer drinking Muslim is about as misplaced as a gay Christian pastor. Sorry bud.

Sure, if you are that paranoid about it, then ok. I like to keep hope and faith in people, whatever their religion is. Maybe I am too naive. Actually this forum is the first place where I EVER heard about the concept of Taqiyya.

Same here and half my family is Muslim. I believe it's a Shia conception more than Sunni, and I believe in Sunni Islam it's only under pressure of death or extreme torture.

I highly doubt it's possible in conscience to condemn 1.6 Billion of the Earth's population as inherent liars. murderers, and cheats whom want to destroy the West. You would think that someone would have betrayed that conspiracy ages ago.

Atleast those criticizing Zionism know it's a top-down approach with the average Jew probably not even in on its implications.



On Muslim immigration to the West. Just slow it down and instate the old school limited immigration laws with a cap on how many can immigrate to the West in a year as well as a ban on Muslim traditional garb. From my experience it takes two generations to integrate(unless a person comes here as a young kid), but it's slowing down due to the sheer mass of Muslims integrating leading to neo-Islamic revivalism of sorts here in the West.

These newer conceptions are essentially attention whoring through being pious. The only reason Muslim women in the West wear the hijab and perpetuate the old school culture of the more conservative countries being that it's a way to level the playing field then persecute outliers for not being pious enough with parents from the old country approving such a habit.

A bunch of people raised by social retards are going to keep being social retards because it's not integrate or die anymore. They can stay in their small community bubble. Which is why Trump-ban on Muslim immigration is very much needed.

[mikado]

(05-14-2016 10:15 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

You seem to fail to grasp how a democracy works. One wife per man isn't some by-product of the air of Europe or it's soil or its water. It's a question of cultural upbringing and the expression of that upbringing through democracy. Under Democracy more muslims = more sharia law.

Probably. My point is that I don't care about it. I am not a very serious praticant I admit it, and I do not want Sharia Law in Europe.


You can use that argument to defend yourself but not to defend islam. Your defense of your own standards in life seems to largely be "I swim in the very shallow end of islam". Fantastic, but islam itself is defined by the average.

Glad that you understand that. And I can't find the link, but when I was discussing these issues with Teedub, I already replied that I understand this fact ( The Prophet even said that the community would be divided in 70 and only 1 group would be saved). So if even within Islam roughly 69/70 people are bad apples, then of course by the sheer law of numbers the average of muslim population will be rotten.


Again, your argument is that you're a good person but many other muslims are not. You ought then to fully understand why people like me are adamant that muslim immigration into the west is a huge mistake. Because for every Mikado we get we're going to get eight sharia supporters and one extremist.

And like I said, I fully support the restriction of immigration to only highly skilled individuals, who master western languages and cultures, and try to really integrate without asking for Halal everywhere or anything like that. I think too that the refugees right now are way more harm than a chance for the world.


I'm still not certain what your tack is here. You again define your ability to assimilate in our culture based on your ability to distance yourself from islam.

No, I just said that I tought I could get along with many people here because we share the same red pill values. Apparently TheBeast1 (he is certainly not alone) and others believe that even red pill can't make them trust someone based on his religion. And I find it sad but hey, life goes on.

[Comte De St. Germain]

(05-14-2016 06:03 AM)Horus Wrote:  

(05-13-2016 09:48 PM)Comte De St. Germain Wrote:  

So I raise you a question here. Alright it's established that Muslim culture and attitude are shitty. A more constructive question being how can this all be solved rather than adopting a convert or die policy towards 2 Billion or so people(springing up a further martyr complex bigger than the current one)?

My answer being putting in stable secular strongmen like Assad. That's the only tried and true solution that has worked in that area for a thousand or so years.

I agree with you 100%. Brutal ideologies such as Islam require brutal dictators for there to any semblance of a functioning society. The majority of the Muslim world only responds to force and fear. The idea that we can transplant democracy into these countries, which requires a high-trust society, the ability to negotiate and so on, is retarded. It was a terrible idea to get rid of Saddam Hussain in Iraq and Qaddafi in Libya Although they were both brutal dictators, they kept their country together by force for decades and posed no threat to the West, and soon as they were gone the countries descended into chaos. The exact same thing is happening in Syria and it will be a disaster if Assad is deposed. Is the West doing this on purpose, or are they just profoundly stupid?

It's all planned by globalist elites. Highly recommend reading Alexander Dugin's Eurasian Mission which talks about this. Dugin is one of Putin's geopolitical advisers and in the book he discusses Russian foreign policy goals contra the U.S.

The West being full of Globalists and the East being full of Eurasianists. Globalism's goal being a unipolar world settled around the United States as the world hegemon and the Eurasianist goal being a multipolar world settled into spheres of influence dividing up the world/its cultures by geographic lines.

Very interesting stuff.

The ideal goal of Eurasianist philosophy being something like this:



Edit: I'm considering scanning it and putting it up for the RVF crowd if there's enough interest in it.

[AboveAverageJoe]

Anyone here think that all the animosity against Muslims in the West and its inevitable fall out is purely a design by the hidden hand to divide and conquer the Goy and the Mohammedan to make way for Globalism(Zionism)? The hidden hand of rootless cosmopolitans is clearly behind many things: the Muslim refugee crisis, the balkanization of Europe, the divisions in the US over BLM, terrorism, mass shootings, etc. If they were willing to back both Hitler, Stalin, and the US and Britain simultaneously and sacrifice a million of their own people who refused to emmigrate to Palestine in the process, Why would they not pit Muslims against Westerners and finance and arm both sides? Bankers gonna Bank, thats what they do. I think Westerners and Muslims should realize they are being used as pawns in the Globalists game and try to seek common ground to withstand being conquered by a common enemy.

[syrianguy]

(05-14-2016 11:16 AM)AboveAverageJoe Wrote:  

Anyone here think that all the animosity against Muslims in the West and its inevitable fall out is purely a design by the hidden hand to divide and conquer the Goy and the Mohammedan to make way for Globalism(Zionism)? The hidden hand of rootless cosmopolitans is clearly behind many things: the Muslim refugee crisis, the balkanization of Europe, the divisions in the US over BLM, terrorism, mass shootings, etc. If they were willing to back both Hitler, Stalin, and the US and Britain simultaneously and sacrifice a million of their own people who refused to emmigrate to Palestine in the process, Why would they not pit Muslims against Westerners and finance and arm both sides? Bankers gonna Bank, thats what they do. I think Westerners and Muslims should realize they are being used as pawns in the Globalists game and try to seek common ground to withstand being conquered by a common enemy.

Even if that's the case, and there is certainly precedents for jewish led muslim invasions, what common ground is there and how can you reach a compromise with sharia wanting muslims in the west ?

Muslims are the aggressors and the onus is ultimately on them to change and adapt not the other way around. I appreciate that there are some who don't follow their religion to the letter but when stronger more dedicated muslims enforce sharia there will be no middle ground. Have moderates in Syria intervened to oppose isis slaughtering christians ? Nope, even when prior to the events they were neighbors for decades.

We can dwell into global zionist conspiracy but it doesn't change the fact that the Koran ( and the rest of the books) is an inherently evil book and mohamad is a bad example to follow. There will be no compromise as long as people follow those teachings.

[Phoenix]

(05-13-2016 11:46 PM)911 Wrote:  

Muhammad’s Wives mean age at the time he married them:
Khadijah’s Median Age = 26 years and 10 months.
Sawdah’s Approximate Age = 40 years.
Aisha’s Median Age = 9 years and 3 months.
Hafsah’s Median Age = 19 years and 6 months.
Zaynab bint Khuzayma’s Median Age = 28 years and 4 months.
Hind’s Median Age = 28 years and 6 months.
Zaynab bint Jahsh’s Median Age = 37 years and 2 months.
Juwayriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.
Safiyah’s Age = 16 years and 6 months.
Ramlah’s Median Age = 34 years and 7 months.
Maymunah’s Median Age = 35 years and 2 months.
Mulaykah’s Approximate Age = 13 years.
Asma’s Maximum Age = 20 years.
Amrah’s Approximate Age = 15 years.

Given that there is some scholarly debate about Asha's actual age and that she is clearly an outlier, I think that the portrayal of Mohamed as a pedophile is a bit tenuous.

But by the same logic, if I met 11 people this month, and I only stabbed one of them, it's "just an outlier". So it need not affect my reputation.

If a guy dated 11 chicks this year, and he only violently raped one of them, "it's just an outlier".

Crossing certain lines automatically tars you. Part of being a decent, socially well-adjusted individual is that you don't cross those lines. There is no such thing as "he only robbed one bank so it's OK", "he only strangled one of his friends so it's OK".

Unless him marrying that girl was literally a matter of life and death, e.g. if he didn't she would die, or it would cause a war where millions would die, there is no justification.

The problem is that muslims must follow it all to the letter. As Alexandrian put it: "I am commanded to...". There is no room for independence in Islam -- you are not an individual you are a Muslim. They're all basically drones of a horrific Borg-like organization. You will be assimilated.