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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-29-2018 09:52 PM)Paracelsus Wrote:  

That said, the Vatican says Frankie didn't say it.

Quote:Quote:

On Thursday the Holy See stated that a reported interview between Pope Francis and an Italian journalist, which claims the Pope denied the existence of hell, should not be considered an accurate depiction of Francis’ words, but the author’s own “reconstruction.”

A recent meeting between Pope Francis and Italian journalist Eugenio Scalfari, 93, was a “private meeting for the occasion of Easter, however without giving him any interview,” the March 29 communique stated.

What is reported by the author in today’s article is the result of his reconstruction, in which the literal words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.

Scalfari, a self-proclaimed atheist, is the founder and former editor of Italian leftist newspaper La Repubblica. In an article published on the site March 29, Scalfari claims that Pope Francis told him, “hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of the souls of sinners exists.”

Scalfari’s fifth meeting with Pope Francis, it is not the first time he has misrepresented the Pope’s words following a private audience.

In November 2013, following intense controversy over quotes the journalist had attributed to Francis, Scalfari admitted that at least some of the words he had published a month prior “were not shared by the Pope himself.”

In a meeting with the journalists of the Foreign Press Association of Rome in 2013, Scalfari maintained that all his interviews have been conducted without a recording device, nor taking notes while the person is speaking.

Fucking media.


This is modern liberal Rome in action. You throw out a radical statement, then partially walk it back and give the antipope plausible deniability without ever actually denying it. Notice, there's no denial at all. He's saying he was misquoted but he's not denying the heresy being communicated.

But now the idea is out there and the liberal faction will run with it.

There was a time that, when misquotes like this would occur (and it happens fairly often), the Pope would call the statement an outright lie and reaffirm the Church's position on the matter in question. The reporter might be excommunicated.

What can we expect from an antipope who gives the Medal of Honor to a Dutch pro-abortion activist - Lilianne Ploumen.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

The high ranking Catholic clergy doesn’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, although they won’t admit it publicly. The prevailing view seems to be that the personal self disappears and all souls are melted into a great adoring soup. I guess there is social justice even in afterlife.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-30-2018 05:15 AM)Montrose Wrote:  

The high ranking Catholic clergy doesn’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, although they won’t admit it publicly. The prevailing view seems to be that the personal self disappears and all souls are melted into a great adoring soup. I guess there is social justice even in afterlife.

This view of the high ranking Catholic Clergy is actually more Biblically correct. Only the spiritual part of the person lives on after the death of a body. If the person has no spiritual aspirations, if he is a mere materialist and a biological animal, if all his desires are of this world then with the death of the body of this wold there is nothing that can live on. So atheists are right when they say that there is nothing after death, it is true for them. People with faith are correct to say there is afterlife - that part of their soul that is dedicated to God will live on, nothing more.

Hell is a more later times poetic invention that got fixed in imagination of common people and stays there. The high clergy doesn't dare to challenge it not to stir up the church. But most serious theologians who have studied original Hebrew texts in their original language will whisper among themselves about there not being any Hell.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

^
Then there's the question of.
If a person dies & is deemed worthy of entering into Heaven. Why then do they require another judgement on The Day Of Judgement to then be deemed worthy of joining God in New Jerusalem?
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

"A mortal sin (Latin: peccatum mortale), in Catholic theology, is a gravely sinful act, which can lead to damnation if a person does not repent of the sin before death."

Fornication (pre-marital sex) is a mortal sin. Therefore under the traditional teaching, most of this forum would BURN in HELL if they did not repent before death...

I know we don't like cuckery, but is the forum really disappointed by this?

If only you knew how bad things really are.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-30-2018 10:04 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

^
Then there's the question of.
If a person dies & is deemed worthy of entering into Heaven. Why then do they require another judgement on The Day Of Judgement to then be deemed worthy of joining God in New Jerusalem?

There isn't another judgment, just a way that created beings have to speak about the final judgment given that obviously, chronologically (in our time) the final judgment hasn't taken place.

Mage is very close to accurate above, but since the Bible doesn't carry quranic claims (unless you became a late christian influenced by islam, the reformationist inerrancy crowd) it doesn't even make sense to talk about "biblically correct" especially in regard to afterlife speculation. As if this is somehow knowable for a 21st century American english speaker to just prop open a [translated] book and find all the answers with perfect understanding.

Still, Mage, your explanation is still more akin to Hellenism and Platonic principles than Christian ones. The body is not done away with after death, it becomes a renewed body, not material in the same way that we experience the material in this world, but nonetheless real is all we can say about it. It is torment, however, to long for material things and think that what sustained you all those days was something in and of yourself when all that while, it was the energies of God with all its light, beauty, truth. The lack of that grace and rejection of that divine energy is certainly a torment because like modern relativists, one with no basis in doing so rejects what is the source and truth of all things. Of course those people are troubled inside and insecure. It is self-evident to us and them, but not admitted, obviously, by them.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

^
Practicalities of the afterlife aside, the question I posed above wasn't so much about what actually transpires after death.
Rather, established, "churchian" notions that don't have much basis in anything Biblical.

Another example would be the whole "St. Peter at the Pearly Gates" deal.

Not only are the only references of "Pearly Gates" in the Bible in regards to New Jerusalem, not Heaven.
Last time I checked, there was no Biblical reference to Peter ticking names at the entrance of Heaven.

Yet the notion perpetuates among church folk cause... trite traditions...?
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Time is a physical concept which only exists in the material universe. It’s a dimension of the material universe.

Asking about the timing of Judgement is like asking if you can drive to the Judgement if it’s too far. The Judgement has no timing or location, it is immediate, omnipresent and permanent. It has in fact already occurred.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Hasn’t it already been proven with Protestant denominations that when churches become more liberal and feminine, church attendances decline further?

Apparently church going men in the UK will be extinct by 2030.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-30-2018 10:51 PM)Kid Twist Wrote:  

Quote: (03-30-2018 10:04 PM)CynicalContrarian Wrote:  

^
Then there's the question of.
If a person dies & is deemed worthy of entering into Heaven. Why then do they require another judgement on The Day Of Judgement to then be deemed worthy of joining God in New Jerusalem?
Mage is very close to accurate above, but since the Bible doesn't carry quranic claims (unless you became a late christian influenced by islam, the reformationist inerrancy crowd) it doesn't even make sense to talk about "biblically correct" especially in regard to afterlife speculation. As if this is somehow knowable for a 21st century American english speaker to just prop open a [translated] book and find all the answers with perfect understanding.

Still, Mage, your explanation is still more akin to Hellenism and Platonic principles than Christian ones. The body is not done away with after death, it becomes a renewed body, not material in the same way that we experience the material in this world, but nonetheless real is all we can say about it. It is torment, however, to long for material things and think that what sustained you all those days was something in and of yourself when all that while, it was the energies of God with all its light, beauty, truth. The lack of that grace and rejection of that divine energy is certainly a torment because like modern relativists, one with no basis in doing so rejects what is the source and truth of all things. Of course those people are troubled inside and insecure. It is self-evident to us and them, but not admitted, obviously, by them.

You are quite correct my explanation is not akin to Christianity and is akin to Hellenism and Platonism and Kaballah and Vedantism and Proti-Idoeuropean Religion.

All of the world's faiths say that desires of this world either die with this world or reincarnate in this world and only desires of God (sometimes these higher aspirations are not called desires at all to distinguish them from early desires) are what ascend higher to Heavens or Moksha or whatever the stage of unity with God is called.

It is only modern Judaism and Christianity and Islam that teaches about Hell and Heavens being attained by observance rather then your spiritual state (Islam more so then Christianity), but since Christianity is based on older Hebrew texts which are connected with old Hellenic and Assyrian and Babylonian texts, one who studies them must witness the gradual simplification of the concept of Soul's fate, from an introspective guide of raising ones consciousness it turns into s simple set of following rules as urbanization grows and spirituality is increasingly used as social system of rules for allowing larger and larger masses of people to coexist. In Islam this reaches it''s fullest extent where the persons intentions and love is not important, what is important is only submission to Allah and Sharia with whatever desires lurking in persons heart, even more so Islam finds a way to exploit both light and dark desires for it's needs. Aspire for knowledge - become a scholar, aspire for food - become halal butcher, aspire for rape and violence - you can commit Jihad by raping infidel whores and committing acts of Terror in name of Islam.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

If you just follow the current linear trend, the number of Catholic christenings in France will reach zero in 2045.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote:Quote:

On Thursday the Holy See stated that a reported interview between Pope Francis and an Italian journalist, which claims the Pope denied the existence of hell, should not be considered an accurate depiction of Francis’ words, but the author’s own “reconstruction.”

A recent meeting between Pope Francis and Italian journalist Eugenio Scalfari, 93, was a “private meeting for the occasion of Easter, however without giving him any interview,” the March 29 communique stated.

What is reported by the author in today’s article is the result of his reconstruction, in which the literal words pronounced by the Pope are not quoted. No quotation of the aforementioned article must therefore be considered as a faithful transcription of the words of the Holy Father.

Scalfari, a self-proclaimed atheist, is the founder and former editor of Italian leftist newspaper La Repubblica. In an article published on the site March 29, Scalfari claims that Pope Francis told him, “hell doesn’t exist, the disappearance of the souls of sinners exists.”

Scalfari’s fifth meeting with Pope Francis, it is not the first time he has misrepresented the Pope’s words following a private audience.

In November 2013, following intense controversy over quotes the journalist had attributed to Francis, Scalfari admitted that at least some of the words he had published a month prior “were not shared by the Pope himself.”

In a meeting with the journalists of the Foreign Press Association of Rome in 2013, Scalfari maintained that all his interviews have been conducted without a recording device, nor taking notes while the person is speaking.

It's not the first time he's done this... but he continues to be invited to private audiences.

Okay then.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-31-2018 12:46 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

It's not the first time he's done this... but he continues to be invited to private audiences.

Okay then.

The antipope and the atheist journalist are on the same side.
It's just a game they play to get the false narrative into the press.
Good Cop/Bad cop...etc


The real pope is Benedict XVI.

He's still alive and a prisoner in the vatican

[Image: abbraccio-papi_2189790.jpg]

[Image: papa%20emerito%20con%20ematoma%20%28002%...mpa.it.jpg]
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-31-2018 12:56 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

He's still alive and a prisoner in the vatican

[Image: huh.gif]
Can't he spill beans to some nun coming to clean his home? It's hard to believe they use force and restrict him so much without suspicion.

Why wouldn't they just kill him if this were true?
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-31-2018 01:07 PM)Mage Wrote:  

Quote: (03-31-2018 12:56 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

He's still alive and a prisoner in the vatican

[Image: huh.gif]
Can't he spill beans to some nun coming to clean his home? It's hard to believe they use force and restrict him so much without suspicion.

Why wouldn't they just kill him if this were true?



Did you forget what happened to pope John Paul I who in 1978 died mysteriously after just 33 days in power when he tried to clean up all the filth in the vatican ?


More info here:

Pope John Paul I conspiracy theories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_...y_theories
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

An important bishop of the Russian Orthodox Church (Hilarion Alfeyev) visted the vatican last year.

He made sure he got a chance to talk to the "correct" pope


[Image: 2017-09-25-PHOTO-00000874.jpg&w=632&h=380&q=95]




and here's Russian Orthodox Patriarch Kirill of Moscow (Patriarch of Moscow and all Rus') with Benedict many years ago

[Image: kirill-and-benedict-edward-pentin.jpg]





and Patriarch Kirill of Moscow meeting the impostor in Havana, Cuba in February 2016 for the Joint Declaration of Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill


[Image: 9da10f5f-45b9-49ef-bc12-449fb04db228_16x9_788x442.jpg]

[Image: pope_francis_759.jpg?w=728]
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Of course the Vatican is completely subverted and infiltrated - it's easy enough to do with an organisation like the Catholic church.

Let me compile what the anti-pope has done to so far that stood out tremendously:

+ he constantly proposes to open borders and let in as many Muslims into the West as humanly possible
+ he calls Islam the religion of peace despite Islam being one of the biggest enemies of Christianity almost wiping it out a few times in history
+ instead of reforming the priesthood and again allowing priests to marry (like they used to do up until the 14th century and long since afterwards as many priests simply had their female caretakers as informal wives up to the 18th century), he instead pushes for women to enter as deacons
+ allowing priests to marry would also severely decrease the incidences of pedophiles in the church - the church should in fact encourage marriages
+ eliminating the belief in the eternal hell or attempting to eliminate in lore is not a big issue in my mind, because some orders like the Franciscans may be of similar opinion, but I feel that this too is being done with the intent of wiping out Christianity in total and create some kind of secular order that will ultimately eliminate itself

Thus the church should rather call out Deus Vult, reform itself on crucial issues like marriage for priests thus attracting scores of masculine priests into the fold. It should start teaching the Red Pill patriarchal doctrine of fatherhood and master of the household, of submissive women. It should fight for it's own flock and not open the borders to those who only hate Christians or want to subjugate it - call out Islam 24/7 for what it fucking is. Install gyms into priests' homes and give them dumbbells and don't give them female deacons. Plus - there would hardly be a reason for deacons when you have plenty of new priests picking the profession.

[Image: fr_john_peck_iron_mind_gripper_1.jpg]

Then you would see people flocking to the empty churches again as young priests would be having children and the entire religion would be reforming itself.

Alas - this won't be happening. Christianity will continue to decline in the West - it might grow in China somehow, but the more cucked it will be anyway.

[Image: smoking_cardinals_zps054d9ed8.jpg]

And Ratzinger being some kind of rightful pope is ridiculous. He probably did not want to stick around as some sickly ghost like John Paul II as he witnessed that firsthand.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-31-2018 01:13 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

Quote: (03-31-2018 01:07 PM)Mage Wrote:  

Quote: (03-31-2018 12:56 PM)Mercenary Wrote:  

He's still alive and a prisoner in the vatican

[Image: huh.gif]
Can't he spill beans to some nun coming to clean his home? It's hard to believe they use force and restrict him so much without suspicion.

Why wouldn't they just kill him if this were true?



Did you forget what happened to pope John Paul I who in 1978 died mysteriously after just 33 days in power when he tried to clean up all the filth in the vatican ?


More info here:

Pope John Paul I conspiracy theories

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_...y_theories

Hey don't avoid my question!!![Image: angry.gif]

Everybody knows John Paul I was poisoned, it's even in the Godfather movie.

Why don't they poison Benedict and keep him around as prisoner? Seems like unnecessary hassle.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-30-2018 05:15 AM)Montrose Wrote:  

The high ranking Catholic clergy doesn’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, although they won’t admit it publicly. The prevailing view seems to be that the personal self disappears and all souls are melted into a great adoring soup. I guess there is social justice even in afterlife.

This religion is stupid and its afterlife sucks. At least Valhalla has an all-you-can-eat buffet with drinks included.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-31-2018 01:32 PM)Mage Wrote:  

Hey don't avoid my question!!![Image: angry.gif]

Everybody knows John Paul I was poisoned, it's even in the Godfather movie.

Why don't they poison Benedict and keep him around as prisoner? Seems like unnecessary hassle.


Benedict XVII obviously prepared years in advance before resigning...must have a dead man's switch somewhere with dirt on everyone. Either that or he's useful to them even now in some way.

So, a stalemate of sorts.
He keeps quiet (or cooperates), and they keep him alive.

Keep in mind what a crazy situation we are in.
The last pope who resigned before Benedict in 2013, was pope Gregory XII in the year 1415, and even then the Vatican waited 2 years until he was dead to elect a new pope in 1417.

The last time there were 2 popes alive at the same time was back in the medieval era, in the year 1294 with Boniface VIII replacing Celestine V.

Boniface VIII threw old man Celestine V in prison cutting off all his contact with the outside world, where he died in jail 2 years later at age 81.
Does this story sound familiar ?


...
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Quote: (03-30-2018 05:15 AM)Montrose Wrote:  

The high ranking Catholic clergy doesn’t really believe in Heaven and Hell, although they won’t admit it publicly. The prevailing view seems to be that the personal self disappears and all souls are melted into a great adoring soup. I guess there is social justice even in afterlife.

Thats exactly what happens to a fictional race called the Founders in Star TrekBig Grineep Space Nine.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

I'm certainly no fan of Pope Francis. I think he has modernist presuppositions, a clearly liberal view of theology, seems enamored of novelty, and sometimes I feel as though he is acting in bad faith. With that being said I think the article is probably #fakenews. Even if it is not, the pope's own misguided personal opinion on the nature of hell is irrelevant as far as dogma and teaching go. If Pope Francis doesn't believe in hell, well he is clearly wrong, does that make him a heretic? That is hard to say and I'm certainly not the judge of such issues.

This is a pretty solid article from a Catholic on the issue of the limits of papal authority:
https://www.catholiceducation.org/en/con...-pope.html
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

^ It's really ironic that the RC church gets the term catholic from St. Ignatius when he said,

"Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic (read: greek, for "whole," "complete," dare I say "unified"?) Church"

Unity is where the bishop is, the overseer and teacher of the people. (He is the descendant of the teaching from any of the Holy Apostles, the teaching from any of whom lacks nothing.)

Not in some political land as head of state, which obviously changes (even for Roman Catholics!) over the centuries. If Peter were a bishop anywhere first (he wasn't, he's an apostle) Antioch was the first place he was anyway. Yet they don't claim his "chair" to be there, though it would more rightly be.

It's really poor ecclesiology, but hey, just ask Charlemagne why things are as they are.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Pope Francis covered up McCarrick abuse, former US nuncio testifies

Quote:Quote:

What you are about to read is an explosive testimony of the former apostolic nuncio to the United States, implicating Pope Francis and several senior prelates in covering up Archbishop Theodore McCarrick’s alleged sexual abuse of seminarians and priests.

In an extraordinary 11-page written statement (see official English text below), Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, 77, claims that Pope Francis knew about strict canonical sanctions imposed on McCarrick by Pope Benedict XVI but chose to repeal them.

In his testimony, dated August 22, Archbishop Viganò, who served as apostolic nuncio in Washington D.C. from 2011-2016, states that in the late 2000s, Benedict had “imposed on Cardinal McCarrick sanctions similar to those now imposed on him by Pope Francis,” and that Viganò personally spoke with Francis about the gravity of McCarrick’s abuse soon after his election in 2013.

But he says that Francis “continued to cover him” and not only did he “not take into account the sanctions that Pope Benedict had imposed on him” but also made McCarrick “his trusted counselor” who helped him to appoint a number of bishops in the United States, including Cardinals Blase Cupich of Chicago and Joseph Tobin of Newark.
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Pope 'The Cuck' Francis Just Destroyed The Catholic Church

Recently I was wondering if Francis is the legitimate pope or not, and came upon this long ass, but definitely interesting article:

Is Francis or Benedict the True Pope?

It examines the question based on the law of the Roman Catholic Church.
I would recommend it to all people who are interested in the topic.

Quote:Quote:

What are the issues that have caused some to doubt or deny Francis’ legitimacy? The primary issue concerns the validity of Benedict’s resignation. Some believe he was forced to resign, and that his resignation was not a “free act” (which is required for validity); others point to irregularities in the wording of his resignation, which calls into question his intent (Did he intend to renounce the papal office or only the active exercise thereof?). Another issue that is raised concerns the validity of Francis’ election. Doubts here arise from the publicly admitted conspiracy of the “clerical mafia” (the St. Gallen’s Group) to elect him. Such a conspiracy is not only illicit, but subjects those who take part in it to latae sententiae excommunication. A final issue that causes some to question Francis’ legitimacy is the damage he is doing to the Church, and to souls, through his scandalous and erroneous teachings, which are leading souls astray and confirming others in their errors and sin. This is aggravated by the fact that, unlike his recent predecessors who undermined Catholic doctrine - often under the specious pretext of unity and world peace (the stated goal of the Assisi prayer meetings) - Francis has directed his attack on the natural law itself, under the specious pretext of mercy and compassion for sinners.

Quote:Quote:

While there is no question that Francis’ papacy has been a disaster, some have argued that Benedict is more dangerous than Francis, since his sheep’s clothing is apparently far more convincing. Which is more dangerous, one who under a “traditional’ veneer subtly deceives those with the faith and leads them into error, or one who, easily recognized as a wolf by true faithful, confirms, in their error, those who are already entangled therein? The point is that the papal controversy is not between a solid traditional Pope (Benedict) and a liberal Pope (Francis), but rather between two men who are cut from the same Modernist cloth.

Quote:Quote:

During Benedict XVI’s Coronation Mass, on April 24, 2005, the newly-elected Pope said: “Pray for me, that I may not flee for fear of the wolves.” Less than eight years later, Benedict would be the first Pontiff in over seven centuries to resign from the papacy. Some have speculated that this resignation was a self-fulfilling prophecy for Benedict, and that he was fleeing from the wolves that he knew surrounded him.

Quote:Quote:

Was it a Free Act?

...the consensus of the Church is not necessary for a Pope to resign. All that is required is that the resignation “is made freely and properly manifested.”

In light of the Vatileaks scandal and the 300-page two-volume dossier delivered to Benedict the day before he resigned, documenting corruption, blackmail and an underground homosexual network within the Vatican (a dossier which magically disappeared from the news following the announced resignation), coupled with allegations that the SWIFT banking system had blocked all financial transactions in Vatican City (only to unlock after Benedict announced his resignation), some have understandably speculated that Benedict’s resignation was not a “free act,” but was brought about by coercion and blackmail by the very “wolves” he spoke of during his Coronation Mass. They maintain that this calls into question the validity of the act, since, according to Canon Law, a resignation of the papacy not freely made would be null and void. One problem with this theory is that Benedict himself has stated publicly, numerous times, that his resignation was not forced, and that it was done “with full freedom.”

Quote:Quote:

...the fact remains that any doubts concerning the freedom of the act are mere speculation, which contradict the consistent public testimony of Benedict himself, who alone knows if the act was free. In fact, he has not only declared that his resignation was freely made, but furthermore that “there isn’t the slightest doubt about the validity,” and even that any “speculation about its invalidity is simply absurd.”

In light of the consistent testimony of the “Pope Emeritus,” there is certainly not sufficient doubt about the validity of his resignation on the basis that the act itself was not freely made. All doubts are merely speculative, and thus do not rise to the level of positive, probable doubt required by Canon Law to morally justify 1) forming a private judgment contrary to the pubic judgment of the Church (which holds that Francis is the legitimate Pope), or even 2) suspending judgment. Moreover, moral theology requires that we always take the safer course, which, as applied here, is submission to the Church’s judgment (not rejecting it based on mere speculation), especially since doing so is in no way sinful, and most certainly in accord with Catholic tradition and practice.

Quote:Quote:

Questioning the Intention - Papal Diarchy

Following the resignation of Pope Benedict, some began to point out potential problems with the way in which the resignation was worded, or, one could say, the way the resignation was manifested.

...a close examination of the document reveals Pope Benedict did not intend to completely renounce the Papal office (the munus petrinus), but only the active exercise thereof (the agendo et loquendo). He argued that his intent seems to have been to essentially split the papacy in two, thereby transforming the papal monarchy into a papal diarchy.

Commenting on Professor Violi’s study, Vittorio Messori wrote the following:

“[Pope] Benedict did not intend to renounce the munus petrinus, nor the office, or the duties, i.e. which Christ Himself attributed to the Head of the Apostles [i.e., Peter] and which has been passed on to his successors. The Pope intended to renounce only the ministerium, which is the exercise and concrete administration of that office.”

“In the formula employed by Benedict, primarily, there is a distinction between the munus, the papal office, and the execution, that is the active exercise of the office itself: but the executio is twofold: there is the governmental aspect which is exercised agendo et loquendo (working and teaching); but there is also the spiritual aspect, no less important, which is exercised orando et patendo (praying and suffering). It is that which would be behind Benedict XVI’s words: ‘I do not return to private life […] I no longer bear the power of office for the governance of the Church, but in the service of prayer I remain, so to speak, in the enclosure of Saint Peter’. Enclosure here would not be meant only in the sense of a geographical place, where one lives, but also a theological ‘place’.”

“Benedict XVI divested himself of all the power of government and command inherent in his office, without however, abandoning his service to the Church: this continues through the exercise of the spiritual dimension of the pontifical munus entrusted to him. This he did not intend to renounce. He renounced not his duties, which are, irrevocable, but the concrete execution of them.

Some have argued that this novel act of Pope Benedict explains why he chose to retain the papal coat of arms, why he continues to wear the white cassock, and why, rather than returning to his pre-papal name Joseph Ratzinger, has chosen the title “His Holiness Benedict XVI, Pope Emeritus.” The Italian journalist and intellectual, Antonio Socci, who was one of the first to publicly question the papal resignation, quoted Pope Benedict’s trusted secretary, Archbishop Georg Ganswein, who, shortly after the resignation, explained that the reason Pope Benedict retained his papal name is because “he considers that this title corresponds to reality.”

In a recent speech delivered at the Pontifical Gregorian University on May 20, 2016, on the occasion of the presentation of a book on Benedict’s pontificate, Archbishop Georg Ganswein, who remains the personal secretary of Benedict, again reiterated that Pope Benedict did not intend to renounce the papal office. Rather, the Archbishop explained, Benedict’s intention was to expand the papacy by essentially splitting it in two, just as Professor Violi had observed in his study a few years earlier.

“Since February 2013 the papal ministry is therefore no longer what it was before. It is and remains the foundation of the Catholic Church; and yet it is a foundation which Benedict XVI has profoundly and permanently transformed during his exceptional pontificate … Since the election of his successor Francis, on March 13, 2013, there are not therefore two popes, but de facto an expanded ministry — with an active member and a contemplative member. This is why Benedict XVI has not given up either his name, or the white cassock. This is why the correct name by which to address him even today is ‘Your Holiness’; and this is also why he has not retired to a secluded monastery, but within the Vatican — as if he had only taken a step to the side to make room for his successor and a new stage in the history of the papacy…”

Needless to say, no one, not even a Pope, possesses the authority to change the nature of the papacy by expanding it to include two living men – “an active member and a contemplative member.” A man becomes Pope when God joins the man elected (the matter) to the pontificate (the form); and he ceases to be Pope either upon death, or when God disjoins the man from the pontificate, either due to the crime of heresy (established by the judgment of the Church) or by resignation. As Cajetan explains, a man is made Pope by virtue of jurisdiction alone; and, according to the will of Christ Who founded the papacy, only one man at a time can possesses papal jurisdiction. Hence, Benedict is either the Pope or a former Pope; he is most certainly not a member of an “expanded Petrine ministry” that includes two Popes.

If the papacy could be expanded to include two men, why could it not be further expanded to three, or four, or perhaps a dozen? Needless to say, this would lead quickly to schism with the various groups following the “Pope” of their choosing. This is why, as St. Jerome taught, only “one is elected, that by the appointment of a [single] head, all occasion of schism may be removed.”

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...if Benedict publicly stated that his intention was to resign the papacy, and if the entire Church understood him to mean that he was completely renouncing the papal office, would a defective intention, resulting from a doctrinal error (i.e., the belief that it is possible to change the nature of the papacy by splitting it in two) prevent God from severing the bond joining his person to the papacy? Or would God sever the bond uniting his person to the papal office in spite of the defective intention that is rooted in a doctrinal error?

To begin with, we should note that just as God is the efficient cause of the Sacraments, so too is He the efficient cause of 1) making man a Pope, and 2) removing a man from the papal office. As Cajetan teaches, when it comes to a papal resignation, the act of the one resigning is not even a partial efficient cause, but only a dispositive cause. In other words, the one resigning disposes himself to lose the papal office (by submitting his resignation), while God Himself is the one who causes the separation of the man from the office.

Now, while a proper intention is necessary to validly confect a sacrament, it is important to note that a doctrinal error held by the minister does not necessarily render the sacrament null due to a defect of intention – even when the doctrinal error in question concerns the intended effect of the sacrament.

It is also worth noting that in the making of a Pope (i.e., God joining the man elected to the Pontificate), a legal defect in the election does not necessarily mean he will not become a true Pope. In fact, a man can be elected illegally, or even take possession of the pontificate by fraud, yet nevertheless become a true Pope. Just as legal, technical defects do not prevent God – the efficient cause - from joining the man to the pontificate, nor would a defective intention (due to a doctrinal error) necessarily prevent God – the efficient cause - from removing him from office (i.e., disjoining him from the papacy). As St. Alphonsus, Doctor of the Church, explains, whether God joins a man to the pontificate (or severs a Pope from the pontificate?), is not necessarily based upon a legal technicality. He wrote:

It is of no importance that in past centuries some Pontiff was illegitimately elected or took possession of the Pontificate by fraud; it is enough that he was accepted afterwards by the whole Church as Pope, since by such acceptance he would have become the true Pontiff.”

If an illegal election, or taking possession of the papacy by fraud, does not necessarily hinder God from joining man to the papacy (provided the Church herself considers him to be Pope), it seem quite certain that a partially defective intention in the resignation, due to a novel doctrinal error in the mind of the one resigning, would similarly not prevent God from disjoining him from the papacy. And we should again note that Benedict himself has stated that there isn’t the slightest doubt about the validity of his resignation.

We conclude this point by noting that potential issues relating to a defect in Benedict’s intention to resign are mere speculation; and even if such a defect were certain, it would in no way prove that God did not sever the bond uniting him to the papal office. Hence, as was the case with doubts concerning the validity of the resignation based on the freedom of the act, we do not have positive, probable doubt to reject the validity of the resignation based on a defect of intention. All such doubts are nothing more than speculation, and therefore do not justify one rejecting the public judgment of the Church.

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Francis’ Election

In addition to the questions concerning the validity of Pope Benedict’s resignation, there have been added allegations of a conspiracy to force Benedict out and elect Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio (Pope Francis). The conspiracy was first brought to light by Dr. Austen Ivereigh in his book The Great Reformer. After the book was published, the Belgian Cardinal, Godfried Danneels, publicly admitted to being part of what he called a secret “clerical mafia” (The St. Gallen Group), which conspired to push Benedict out and elect Bergoglio.

According to the laws established by John Paul II for papal elections, which were applicable at the time of Bergoglio’s election, any secret pact or agreement which would oblige Cardinals to vote a certain way in a Papal election carries a latae sententiae excommunication for the non-elected co-conspirators. However, this excommunication would not nullify the election, since the law that has been in place for centuries currently states that “No cardinal elector may be excluded from active and passive participation in the election of the Supreme Pontiff because of or on pretext of any excommunication, suspension, interdict or other ecclesiastical impediment.”

Active participation is the act of electing a Pope; passive participation is being elected Pope. Hence, the admitted conspiracy to elect Bergoglio may raise important questions concerning the men who elected him, but it does not prove that Bergoglio is not the Pope. To again quote St. Alphonsus, Doctor of the Church, “it is of no importance that in past centuries some Pontiff was illegitimately elected or took possession of the Pontificate by fraud; it is enough that he was accepted afterwards by the whole Church as Pope, since by such acceptance he would have become the true Pontiff.” So even if it can be shown that there was a canonical irregularity in Francis’ election, or even if he was elected un-canonically, it would not prove Francis is not the Pope.

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Peaceful and Universal Acceptance of a Pope

This brings us to the next question: Is there any way to know, with certitude, whether a man who is elected Pope is, in fact, a true and legitimate Pope? As we extensively address in our book "True or False Pope?", it is the common doctrine of the Church that the peaceful and universal acceptance of a Pope provides infallible certitude of his legitimacy. It also, quite logically, provides infallible certitude that all of the necessary conditions (both positive and negative) for him being validly elected were met.

The legitimacy of a Pope, who has been accepted as such by the Church, falls into the category of a dogmatic fact, which is a secondary object of the Church’s infallibility.

"...since the Church is infallible in believing as well as in teaching, it follows that the practically unanimous consent of the bishops and faithful in accepting a council as ecumenical, or a Roman Pontiff as legitimately elected, gives absolute and infallible certainty of the fact.”

In his 1951 book On the Value of Theological Notes and the Criteria for Discerning Them, which was drafted for use by Roman congregations under Pius XII, Fr. Sixtus Cartechini, S.J., explains that the rejection of a dogmatic fact (and the example he uses is a Pope who has been accepted as such by the Church) constitutes a “mortal sin against faith.” And it should be noted that the “universal acceptance” does not require a 100 percent mathematical unanimity, but only a practically or morally unanimous acceptance, reflecting the one mind of the Church, as noted by Fr. Berry in the above quotation.

The renowned twentieth century theologian, Louis Cardinal Billot, makes a number of interesting observations about this doctrine.

“Finally, whatever you still think about the possibility or impossibility of the aforementioned hypothesis [of a Pope falling into heresy], at least one point must be considered absolutely incontrovertible and placed firmly above any doubt whatever: the adhesion of the universal Church will be always, in itself, an infallible sign of the legitimacy of a determined Pontiff, and therefore also of the existence of all the conditions required for legitimacy itself. It is not necessary to look far for the proof of this, but we find it immediately in the promise and the infallible providence of Christ: ‘The gates of hell shall not prevail against it,’ and ‘Behold I shall be with you all days.’ (…) As will become even more clear by what we shall say later, God can permit that at times a vacancy in the Apostolic See be prolonged for a long time. He can also permit that doubt arise about the legitimacy of this or that election. He cannot however permit that the whole Church accept as Pontiff him who is not so truly and legitimately. Therefore, from the moment in which the Pope is accepted by the Church and united to her as the head to the body, it is no longer permitted to raise doubts about a possible vice of election or a possible lack of any condition whatsoever necessary for legitimacy. For the aforementioned adhesion of the Church heals in the root all fault in the election and proves infallibly the existence of all the required conditions.”

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John of St. Thomas then explains that the Cardinal electors represent the Church itself in proposing the man to the faithful as Pope. Consequently, their judgment represents the public judgment of the Church. If the election is peaceful, this judgment alone will suffice for the universal acceptance. If there is any defect in the election, it is remedied by the fact that the Universal Church (the bishops, priests and faithful) accepts the man as Pope.

John of St. Thomas also addresses precisely when the universal acceptance becomes sufficient to prove that the man is a legitimate Pope. From the same treatise:

"...the acceptance of the Church is realized both negatively, by the fact that the Church does not contradict the news of the election wherever it becomes known, and positively, by the gradual acceptance of the prelates of the Church, beginning with the place of the election, and spreading throughout the rest of the world. As soon as men see or hear that a Pope has been elected, and that the election is not contested, they are obliged to believe that that man is the Pope, and to accept him."

And while, in John of St. Thomas’ time, this positive acceptance would happen gradually as the news spread throughout the Church and the word, in our information age, the news spreads world-wide almost immediately. This means that the universal acceptance (both positive and negative) would be manifest very quickly – at least within the first several days following the election.

Hence, in the words of John of St. Thomas, if “the Church does not contradict the news of the election” when it “becomes known,” or “as soon as men” learn of it (which is immediate), this fact would provide infallible certitude that he was a legitimate Pope. It would follow that concerns and doubts arising months and years later would not call into question his legitimacy. The reason is obvious – if universal acceptance weren’t immediate, there would always be lingering doubts about whether the man elected were a true Pope. And if he were a bad Pope, causing damage to the Church, certain people would simply reject him as a false Pope and go into schism. We should also note that just because a Pope has not been universally accepted by the Church does not mean he is not a true Pope. This is confirmed by the fact that during the Great Western Schism the legitimate Pope had not been accepted as such by the entire Church.

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The Conditions for a Valid Election

John of St. Thomas also addresses issues related to the conditions for a valid election – both the conditions required for the electors, and the conditions required for the one elected. For example, the electors must be true Cardinals; they must have the intention of electing the Popes, and they must follow the laws currently in place for a valid election. There are also conditions for a person to be validly elected Pope. He must be a male and baptized (positive conditions) and he must not be insane or a public heretic (negative conditions). John of St. Thomas explains that the infallible certitude we have that the man is Pope (which we know when he is peacefully elected and/or accepted as Pope by the entire Church as soon as it becomes known) provides infallible certitude that all of the pre-requisite conditions for his validity have been met.

He goes on to explain, as Cardinal Billot did above, that God will not permit a man to be elected Pope, and accepted as Pope by the Church, who does not meet the necessary conditions:

"[I]t is not merely a pious belief, but a theological conclusion (as we have stated), that God will not permit one to be elected and peacefully accepted by the Church who in fact does not meet the conditions required; this would be contrary to the special providence that God exercises over the Church and the assistance that she receives from the Holy Ghost."

Next, he addresses the objection of those today who hold to the novel “Material/Formal Pope thesis” – that is, that the Pope has indeed been legitimately and validly elected and truly holds the office, but, due to an alleged impediment (heresy), he did not receive the jurisdiction from God to become a true Pope. John of St. Thomas refutes this novel thesis by stating the obvious:

"Nor is there a real difference between the proposition, 'This man is properly elected,' and, 'This man is Pope,' since to be accepted as the Supreme Pontiff and to be the Supreme Pontiff are the same, just as it is the same for something to be defined, and for the definition to be legitimate."

As we saw earlier, Fr. Catechini taught that those who would reject the legitimacy of a Pope, who had been accepted as such by the Church, would be guilty of a mortal sin against the faith. John of St. Thomas goes one step further by saying, alone with Suarez, that such a person would be a heretic.

"Whoever would deny that a particular man is Pope after he has been peacefully and canonically accepted, would not only be a schismatic, but also a heretic; for, not only would he rend the unity of the Church… but he would also add to this a perverse doctrine, by denying that the man accepted by the Church is to be regarded as the Pope and the rule of faith. Pertinent here is the teaching of St. Jerome (Commentary on Titus, chapter 3) and of St. Thomas (IIa IIae Q. 39 A. 1 ad 3), that every schism concocts some heresy for itself, in order to justify its withdrawal from the Church. Thus, although schism is distinct from heresy, in … the case at hand, whoever would deny the proposition just stated would not be a pure schismatic, but also a heretic, as Suarez also reckons."

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Closing Thoughts – Recognize and Resist

In his short reign, Francis has clearly shown himself to be a danger to the faith and perhaps even the “destroyer” prophesied by St. Francis of Assisi. Whether it is his statement that “there is no Catholic God,” that the souls of those who are not saved will be “annihilated,” or his latest, that “no one can be condemned for ever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel!,” he is sowing untold confusion in the Church and in the minds of the faithful. If the Church condemned Pope Honorius as a heretic for erring on one doctrine, we can only imagine what the future holds for Francis. Considering this danger posed by Francis, what should Catholics do?

St. Bellarmine cites divine law in explaining that heretical bishops (who he calls “false prophets”) are not to be listened to by the faithful. Generally speaking, we are to follow and obey our legitimate leaders, but this obligation ceases when they preach errors and heresy. And it should also be noted that when Bellarmine teaches that heretical bishops are not to be listened to, he is obviously referring to those whose heretical teachings are public, for how else would the faithful be capable of knowing that they were preaching heresy? Bellarmine also notes, however, that while the faithful have the right and indeed the duty to refuse to listen to heretical prelates, they do not possess the authority to depose them, or, what amounts to the same thing, declare them deposed. He writes:

"For Our Lord and the Apostles only lay down that false prophets are not to be listened to by the people, and not that they depose them. And it is certain that the practice of the Church has always been that heretical bishops be deposed by bishop’s councils, or by the Sovereign Pontiff.”

What else is clear from the above quotation is that a heretical prelate will not lose his office unless he is judged a heretic by the Church, not simply by private judgment.

Regarding the case of a Pope (not just any bishop) who falls into heresy, Fr. Mattheus Conte Coronata, S.T.D, said he, too, should not be listened to.

While it is easier said than done in our day of social media and instant communication, because Francis constantly undermines the Faith by his irresponsible statements, he should not be listened to by the faithful, and his errors should be resisted. The Papal Bull of Pope Paul IV, Cum ex Apotolatus, teaches that a Pope who deviates from the Faith can indeed be resisted:

“[T]he Roman Pontiff, who is the representative upon earth of God and our God and Lord Jesus Christ, who holds the fullness of power over peoples and kingdoms, who may judge all and be judged by none in this world, may nonetheless be contradicted if he be found to have deviated from the Faith.”

Just as the good angels were justified in not blindly following their legitimate head, Lucifer, when he disobeyed God; and just as the faithful Jews were obliged to resist Caiaphas when he rejected Christ, so too are Catholics today fully justified in resisting the errors coming from Francis, and in stopping up their ears “against his violent speech, lest [they] be infected by the venom of his doctrine.” Therefore, we recognize him as the legitimate Pope, but resist his teachings that depart from Tradition – just as we have done with his recent predecessors. This is what the Popes, Fathers and Doctors teach, and what true Catholics have always done when faced with erring Popes.



TL; DR:
The Roman Catholic Church is an authoritarian bureaucracy, entirely created by man, for the benefit of man, ruled by laws made by man.
It is of this world. God is not involved.
Through its sophistry, it can and will justify anything and denounce anything to retain its institutional power.

A man who was elected illegally, can still be the true and legitimate pope.
A man who took possession of the pontificate by fraud, can still be the true and legitimate pope.
A man who was elected due to a conspiracy, can still be the true and legitimate pope.
A man who was elected by excommunicated cardinals, can still be the true and legitimate pope.
A man who was elected by cardinals who are secretly or publicly heretics, can still be the true and legitimate pope
A man who was secretly a heretic at the time of his election, can still be the true and legitimate pope.
A man who becomes (and acts as) a public and open heretic after his election, is still the true and legitimate pope.
Anyone who rejects the legitimacy of the pope (for example because they regard the pope as a heretic), is himself a heretic and commits a mortal sin against the faith.


All these laws only serve to preserve the power of the Church as a worldly institution, they do not serve the faithful, they do not serve Jesus Christ, the do not serve God,
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