[Days of Broken Arrows]

(04-17-2016 02:51 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 11:45 AM)CH-Toronto Wrote:  

Gyms become government regulated like libraries. I'm not saying - ALL gyms, but now there can be an option for those who can't afford it.

Gyms are more available now than ever in human history, yet people are fatter, weaker and more out of shape than ever. Poor people the world over have been doing bodyweight exercise (like chins, dips, etc) and picking up heavy, awkward shit since forever and it gets you strong all the same. Your priorities and what you do for fun are different there's no Netflix to keep you entertained and you might have to fight once in a while to survive.

Public school is free and we have the internet. As a result, most people are loaded up with facts they don't question (or understand) while lacking actual wisdom. The problem isn't that we don't have places to exercise, the problem is that we have too many labor saving appliances (cars are the number one offender), too much processed food that's 19747239292 different iterations of corn, and too much other shit to do with our free time that doesn't involve going outside. Our lives are too easy and the average physique shows this.

We need incentives for people to, at the very least, control their ever expanding waistlines. Most "I can't afford to eat healthy" idiots don't know this, but eating healthy can be done cheaply if you don't weight 300 lbs and you have a garden.

Smokers finance a formidable amount of government spending, why shouldn't fatties (who are more common) also pay a larger share? At the very least, it might make for fewer fat chicks.

Not to mention the hilarious crusade against smoking has turned smokers into social pariahs, which has also in turn made fewer smokers. It's not out of line to say "Smoking is disgusting" but it's out of line to say "Eating six plates of food at a Chinese Buffet is disgusting" or "Not being able to shower properly is disgusting when you show up to work and I have to sit in the same elevator as you. I'm taking the stairs next time."

Given the whole "tolerance for minorities" gambit the social justice warriors like to parade around, the anti smoking brigade is a good example of how they're just illiterate mouthpieces for the propaganda of the times.

The US has far fewer smokers now than it did 50 years ago when more people were thin. Could this be related to why more people are now obese? Did people just replace on vice with another?

Maybe people need something to do orally (heh) and if they're not putting a cigarette in their mouths, they're shoveling in food. This is just me thinking out loud -- might be one factor in many. I think HankMoody's mention of the corn subsidies is important and am going do some reading on that.

[Matsufubu]

Making bad food more expensive won't work, as it'll just create a gap in the market for a manufacturer to create some other synthetic crap that avoids the 'fat tax', and the fatties will continue to gorge, or the fatties will find something else to gorge on regardless.

Making gyms free/cheaper won't work; near me there's several gyms costing between £16.99-£25.99 per MONTH, and there's still kaiju waddling around the streets en masse. If they won't get in shape for £17 per month, they're not getting in shape for £0 either.

The issue is cultural, and multi-layered:

1. Fat acceptance. This is based on the feminisation of Western society, where feelings matter more than facts. A fat woman deluding herself into believing that 'fat is fabulous' is as easy as convincing herself that going home with the musician with tattoos will result in a wonderful relationship.

2. Promotion of shitty, cheap food laden with unnatural additives. Shit food has always existed, but look at the deals going on with shitty, unhealthy food. Working in the food industry myself I know what things cost, so I'm always grimacing when I see ridiculously cheap food deals

3. Lack of sporting activities at school. If you didn't do or avoided sports and physical exercise as a child, you have the habit of not doing any as you grow up, either

4. Shitty parenting. Kids learn from their parents, so with a large (heh) number of fatties raising kids, away we go, generation by generation. Watch as society becomes increasingly polarised in terms of physicality in the coming decades.

5. Isolation. Breaking up communities, churches, pubs etc stops people coming together. So no group activities, too small a social circle for group sports, little to no social shaming.

People do things 80% due to habit. Remember how hard it was the first few weeks after joining the gym? Personally I wanted to quit every time. After 6 weeks I'd gotten the habit of going religiously and I'd rather get kicked in the nuts than miss a session.

Also: men, stop fucking fatties. Seriously, have some self respect. You'll be helping them too in the long run. You know why.

[Hannibal]

(04-17-2016 03:02 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

The US has far fewer smokers now than it did 50 years ago when more people were thin. Could this be related to why more people are now obese? Did people just replace on vice with another?

Maybe people need something to do orally (heh) and if they're not putting a cigarette in their mouths, they're shoveling in food. This is just me thinking out loud -- might be one factor in many. I think HankMoody's mention of the corn subsidies is important and am going do some reading on that.

Smoking a cigarette increases resistance to insulin, however it is like a diet soda (no calories). Nicotine also happens to be an effective appetite suppressant.

I was a heavy smoker for 6 years and I just recently quit two weeks ago, the difference on my blood sugar levels (extremely stable all the time) is intense. Replacing smoking with sugar isn't a huge leap, they both jack up your blood sugar and satisfy an oral fixation. Sugar, however, increases your appetite over time and makes you fat as hell.

If society really "cared" about the "plight" of fat people, we'd shame them into oblivion.

[samsamsam]

Someone mentioned something about after an abortion women still feel like they are pregnant (that the hormone levels are still high). Given the frequency of abortions, maybe the women are adding weight as if they are pregnant? Just a random thought that I saw somewhere else on the forum. So fewer unwanted pregnancies, the better the obesity problem?

[Merenguero]

(04-17-2016 02:51 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

The main culprit is the massive overconsumption of sugar and other high glycemic foods. Period. Do you know how difficult it would be to get morbidly obese without eating sugar? Has anyone ever seen a fat person gorging themselves on chicken breasts and broccoli? Anyone who's ever tried to do a clean bulk while bodybuilding knows how difficult it is to stuff your face with multiple servings of real, healthy food on a daily basis.

The problem is that sugary junk food is really, really tasty and addicting. It's literally scientifically engineered to be that way. A large percentage of people are simply never going to be able to refrain from eating it. It takes tremendous willpower to cut it out entirely and a large degree of willpower to simply avoid it on a regular basis. It's everywhere in society. It's the most socially acceptable and least expensive drug available. The situation cannot be resolved by wishful thinking or telling people to take more responsibility for their health. You would need to have some combination of efforts that would result in: 1) A massive reduction in the quantity of sugar in foods and/or a commensurate reduction in the quantity of these foods being consumed on a per capita basis (a sugar tax or something along those lines), 2) An enormous, sustained media campaign to promote fat shaming and equate obesity with stupidity, sloth, reduced sexual function, and all other manner of negative associations, and 3) The elimination of government and insurance financed treatment for obesity-related diseases and health problems.

I think Scorpion nailed it. Sugary diet + no exercise= almost 100% chance of obesity. No sugar consumption (except for natural sugars and some carbohydrates) + productive exercise daily or almost daily = close to 100% chance of having a good body.

I haven't consumed sugar per se since 2001. Before that I ate and drank sugar day in and day out, much more than anyone I had ever met. I kind of eased into it. At first, every two weeks or something I would have an ice cream cone or something, then after three or four months, I just cut sugar out completely.

[Kona]

I think the best way to curb fattness in America is to star some type of military conscription situation.

When people start out their adult life fat or getting fatter, it just leads to fatness for ever.

Aloha!

[cascadecombo]

There would be a big change if people would just call people fat when they saw them getting fat.

Shit, I had friends in Japan and Korea telling me the moment my gut started to get big, it wasn't anything offensive just a matter of fact type comment. Nothing works as well as societal pressure to not be an ugly abomination.

[thoughtgypsy]

scorpion's post explains it. People need to stop eating sugars and highly glycemic food and the pounds will fall off. It's really that simple.

As others have pointed out, one obstacle to that is the addictive properties of sugar.

Another factor, and I think this is a big one, is mass ignorance about nutrition in society as a whole. This has been facilitated by our food and health industry. Most doctors continue to encourage low fat, high carbohydrate diets. They encourage people to eat breads, pastas, cereals, and other carbohydrates whose glycemic index isn't much further away from sugar.

Fat is continually demonized, and many foods are labeled "fat free", "low fat", or "healthy options" despite being a major factor in encouraging obesity. While most people recognize sugar as unhealthy, it's still seen as regularly benign, and even encouraged in some situations (fruit juice, snapple).

This kind of low fat diet (based on the famous food pyramid) was encouraged by public health officials in the 70s, and led to the massive increase in obesity in the years that followed. Most people are just following what they've been told is the correct way to eat. If there were greater awareness of what's the proper way to eat to lose weight, I think most people would never even get to the point of obesity.

[Khan]

(04-17-2016 05:18 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

There would be a big change if people would just call people fat when they saw them getting fat.

Shit, I had friends in Japan and Korea telling me the moment my gut started to get big, it wasn't anything offensive just a matter of fact type comment. Nothing works as well as societal pressure to not be an ugly abomination.

Ditto. People are getting fat because it's socially accepted to be fat. The same phenomenon of obesity that is today rationalized away with a myriad of excuses - the chief of them being worsening socioeconomic conditions (as if in a healthy economy everyone would lift regularly and pay attention to what they eat) - was viewed with contempt and disgust not so long ago.

Humans are social beings, and societal pressure is a vital regulator of human behavior. Without societal pressure a lot of things quickly go down the drain, a fact that can easily be seen in the rampant proliferation of obesity, homosexuality, sluttiness and other deviant behaviors within modern Western culture.

[beta_plus]

How to end the obesity epidemic:


Get mothers to cook for their children again.
Force families to sit together for dinner.


This will get fathers in on the act as well.

It will get children to eat high lean protein, leafy green vegetable, and healthy fat meals that are low in simple carbs since most old timey family meals were, especially compared to modern restaurant food. Also, it will teach them good eating habits that will last a lifetime.

Once they are about 16 and can be trusted around a kitchen, force children to learn how to cook, especially girls.

I am convinced that France and Italy were able to buck the obesity epidemic for so long is because cooking is part of their nationalities. Common, how seriously are you going to take a Frenchman or woman who can't cook at least a few delicious dishes? As a result, Madeleine couldn't scream "Vous etes patriarchez sexiste!" when her parents forced her to learn how to cook, since Pierre had to learn as well. That Madeleine later used it to cook good meals for her children in a stable marriage while Pierre used it to bang Madeleine's BFF Jennifer from Chicago is not relevant.

[cascadecombo]

(04-17-2016 06:07 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

Get mothers to cook for their children again.
Force families to sit together for dinner.

I have found a flaw in your proposed plan.

[beta_plus]

(04-17-2016 06:10 PM)cascadecombo Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 06:07 PM)beta_plus Wrote:  

Get mothers to cook for their children again.
Force families to sit together for dinner.

I have found a flaw in your proposed plan.

I said "most", not "all" *. For some, education would be required. Possibly through PSAs that actually matter for a change instead of the "second hand smoke will kill your dog!" variety.

Plus, I can't believe I clicked on that. What has been seen cannot be unseen.

[eatthishomie]

There are multiple powerful interests aimed at keeping people fat and sick. Education and thorough public shaming is the only real way to counter it on any level.

[TigerMandingo]

Stop persecuting smoking, which at least kept America thin.

[Conscious Pirate]

Advocate personal responsibility. Educate on narcicissim (very few making the link here) & why concepts like shame & humiliation are important social & cultural constructs to engender healthy responses like guilt & humility (the gatekeepers to the narcicisstic influence on the ego/superego).

And Fat Shame with impunity.

We could end obesity in a couple of years. All these other suggestions are looking far too downstream.

Would work for everything. Not just obesity. And cost a lot less.

[Teutatis]

(04-17-2016 12:20 PM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

The obesity epidemic can be easily eliminated with one simple step.

Everyone eats a low glycemic load diet.

That's it.

I disagree, the glycemic index of food means nothing, you can get fat on a "low" glycemic diet and get skinny on a "high" glycemic diet. Carbs are not evil, they're wonderful and necessary, people are just lazy, gluttons and lack impulse control, so they eat waaaay too much of everything, carbs, fats and proteins, that's it.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-17-2016 08:12 PM)Teutatis Wrote:  

I disagree, the glycemic index of food means nothing, you can get fat on a "low" glycemic diet and get skinny on a "high" glycemic diet. Carbs are not evil, they're wonderful and necessary, people are just lazy, gluttons and lack impulse control, so they eat waaaay too much of everything, carbs, fats and proteins, that's it.

I said glycemic load. Not glycemic index. There's a difference.

http://jonnybowden.com/the-blood-sugar-f...emic-load/

I actually get the majority of my calories from carbohydrates. I've chosen the ones which have low to moderate glycemic loads (brown rice, sweet potatoes, beans, etc). If I were to eat the same amount of carbohydrates as raw sugar or it's equivalent, it would wreak havoc on my metabolism. Not all carbs are like that (NACALT).

[MrLemon]

Sorry to be a naysayer, but none of these proposals are going to work.

Eating habits are part of the lizard brain. They are so deeply hardwired that nothing you do or say will matter.

Anyway, I think we've missed the real culprit. It's computers that are to blame, not diets. Notice that obesity took a spike exactly when the Internet sprang forth. Understand why that happened, and maybe you can speculate about cures.

[EDantes]

(04-17-2016 10:05 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Sorry to be a naysayer, but none of these proposals are going to work.

Eating habits are part of the lizard brain. They are so deeply hardwired that nothing you do or say will matter.

Anyway, I think we've missed the real culprit. It's computers that are to blame, not diets. Notice that obesity took a spike exactly when the Internet sprang forth. Understand why that happened, and maybe you can speculate about cures.

Video games probably play a culprit too; it was in the 80s/90s with the advent of home consoles like the NES, Genesis, and Playstation that they became a mainstream form of entertainment rather than something thought of as more of a 'kid's toy'.

And today we have MMORPGs, online games, not to mention emulation and video game piracy, where a guy can literally have access to games and people online to play them with 24/7.

Nowadays a guy can just play Madden instead of playing football with buddies, or play Street Fighter instead of learning a martial art.

I'm not against video games and have spent a lot of time playing them, but I definitely don't believe they should take the place of real male bonding, competition, and physical activity - etc

Unfortunately in this day and age coupled with the lack of strong male friendships they often do; in fact it's hard for me to even meet guy friends in the early 20s range who wouldn't rather just play CoD than learn a sport like tennis.

[eatthishomie]

(04-17-2016 10:05 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Sorry to be a naysayer, but none of these proposals are going to work.

Eating habits are part of the lizard brain. They are so deeply hardwired that nothing you do or say will matter.

Anyway, I think we've missed the real culprit. It's computers that are to blame, not diets. Notice that obesity took a spike exactly when the Internet sprang forth. Understand why that happened, and maybe you can speculate about cures.

I used to be a fat fuck who slammed cokes, pizza, and dessert pastries like there was no tomorrow.

Now my diet is mostly green smoothies, lean fish, whey protein, and vegetables, cheat meals and refeeds aside.

People can change.

[EDantes]

(04-17-2016 10:53 PM)eatthishomie Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 10:05 PM)MrLemon Wrote:  

Sorry to be a naysayer, but none of these proposals are going to work.

Eating habits are part of the lizard brain. They are so deeply hardwired that nothing you do or say will matter.

Anyway, I think we've missed the real culprit. It's computers that are to blame, not diets. Notice that obesity took a spike exactly when the Internet sprang forth. Understand why that happened, and maybe you can speculate about cures.

I used to be a fat fuck who slammed cokes, pizza, and dessert pastries like there was no tomorrow.

Now my diet is mostly green smoothies, lean fish, whey protein, and vegetables, cheat meals and refeeds aside.

People can change.

Kudos to you, people like you are the inspiration this generation needs.

Rather than the coddlers who spin bullshit like "It's cheaper to be fat than to eat healthy", "the government/McDonalds made us fat!", "f- your beauty standards, etc"

[Dominance]

Quote:

Gyms become government regulated like libraries. I'm not saying - ALL gyms, but now there can be an option for those who can't afford it.

Horrible idea. Imagine all the bullshit restrictions they would put on the gyms. Afterall the government recommends things like 'the food pyramid' which is bullshit and other bad advice like "you can rely on the cops to be there to save you". That's only just going to fuck things up.

[Delta]

^^God I'm sick of that horseshit about how hard it is to be thin if you're not wealthy. I eat almost exclusively cheap ass food and am still quite lean, because I eat it in moderation (I stop when I'm not hungry) and I play sports and lift. Nothing about that requires a lot of money.

It simply isn't politically correct to speculate that maybe, just maybe, the same traits that cause people to be unable to land a good job (lack of discipline and self-control) are also causing their obesity.

[eatthishomie]

Well, there is some truth to the first two statements at least. There is a lot of subsidy of unhealthy fattening food out there. The government has spread a lot of misinformation about weight loss (low fat anyone?) in addition to subsidizing unhealthy foods. However, if you know where to look and how to shop, it's actually cheaper to eat a healthy bodybuilding diet (Google "bulking on a budget").

"Fuck your beauty standards" is fucking bullshit. Yes, fuck biology. /s
That was something I used to say too. *shudder*

[EDantes]

(04-17-2016 11:14 PM)Delta Wrote:  

^^God I'm sick of that horseshit about how hard it is to be thin if you're not wealthy. I eat almost exclusively cheap ass food and am still quite lean, because I eat it in moderation (I stop when I'm not hungry) and I play sports and lift. Nothing about that requires a lot of money.

It simply isn't politically correct to speculate that maybe, just maybe, the same traits that cause people to be unable to land a good job (lack of discipline and self-control) are also causing their obesity.

Saw a cringeworthy documentary the other day where some quack "therapist" was telling people it was cheaper to be fat than to 'eat healthy' because you can buy a dollar meal hamburger for less than an apple.

Doesn't take genius to figure out that one doesn't have to "eat organic" in order to not be obese; in Super Size Me they even featured a guy who's diet consisted of nothing but Big Macs for the past 30 years and he was only 140 lbs because he ate in moderation. Not to mention the sugary sodas - you can just replace them with water which is free.

It's really just calories in, calories out - if a person wants to lose weight they can just eat less of what they already eat and/or exercise.

What next, someone's probably going to claim it's "cheaper to smoke than to quit" (because nicotine patches cost so much or something like that).

People like this are just snake oil salesmen telling people lies that they want to hear; along with all of these fad diets, secret weight loss formulas, and pseudo intellectual rationalization etc invented just to make a profit from the gullible.

Our grandfathers ate real food, and got physical exercise, and stayed in shape - that's it, no food pyramids, calorie counting, worry about chemical additives, etc