[johnbozzz]

(04-15-2016 07:25 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

(04-15-2016 07:18 PM)Onto Wrote:  

(04-15-2016 12:08 PM)johnbozzz Wrote:  

One of the few things I've continued to do is order for dates at bars and restaurants, even food carts. This seems to have worked better was I was in high school. Now, girls just bitch, "What? You think I can't order myself?".
Guys, it is actually worth it to keep this up? Should I keep holding open doors for young girls (I'll always do it for the elderly, though).
What do you advise?

Well, if that happened to me I would be tempted to call the waiter back over to cancel the order and then leave the restaurant. Might cost you the bang, but you wouldn't have paid for it with your principles.

Let's assume that he's got the bang already (cause we all know you don't take girls out to dinner that you haven't slammed already).

This is just another shit test.

He's not passing it because his frame isn't dominant enough to pull it off...something is making him not congruent in the eyes of the girl.

If a girl said this to me in front of the server I'd just laugh and say "awww" and perhaps "she's cute isn't she" to the waiter/ess, then carry on ordering.

As for opening doors...sure...just make sure this is always accompanied by a slap on the ass as she saunters through.

Sorry, maybe I'm an idiot, but what is my "frame"?
And yeah, we've fucked. She's not great, but most girls really aren't, despite what they say.

[Onto]

Maybe I'm just old, but I don't subscribe to the "No dinner date before the bang". Of course there are tons of free things you can do on a first date, The park, the water, coffee, museum, etc. and all that's great too. But sometimes you're in the mood to go out and have a meal at a cool restaurant. Granted it costs more, but I don't do it with the intention it's going to entitle me to a bang. I do it because I want to eat there with some company.

Of course the restaurant is close to the apartment or we have to drive back to my place because I made sure we left her car there.

If the chemistry is there she is going to come back to your apartment anyway. Even if you have to take a cab to the other side of town.

Also, you open the doors because it's the masculine thing to do ("taking action in the world"). You don't do it because you're hoping she'll appreciate it, though she should.

[el mechanico]

^ He's got it!!! Listen!

[PapayaTapper]

(04-15-2016 07:37 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Maybe I'm just old, but I don't subscribe to the "No dinner date before the bang". Of course there are tons of free things you can do on a first date, The park, the water, coffee, museum, etc. and all that's great too. But sometimes you're in the mood to go out and have a meal at a cool restaurant. Granted it costs more, but I don't do it with the intention it's going to entitle me to a bang. I do it because I want to eat there with some company.

I personally don't subscribe to the "no dinner before the bang" philosophy out of some type of "no ass= no food or spend" principle. It's rather that logistically it doesn't fit my (usual) 2 date program. It's purely strategic.

First date is almost always drinks, at a bar that I'm very familiar with (and they know me). I prefer sitting next to the girl rather than across from her. This makes "accidental" physical contact (legs touching, arms, shoulders, etc) as well as "innocent" touching-"that's a cool ring/watch/ bracelet, let me see" (grabbing and holding her hand ) This is particularly effective with necklaces (fingers under the necklace and rubbing her chest and collarbone. This is practically impossible sitting across from a girl. Plus it's just too much of an "interview" position for my tastes. I prefer the intimacy of sitting next to a girl at the bar. Go for a walk by the beach with a bit of a buzz on, maybe another quick drink at another venue (if needed) then bounce to the house if possible..but

If I don't close on first date-

Second date is me cooking at my house. I have a very high close rate if I can get them to my house.

Personally sitting across from a chick I don't really know, macking food and not being able to touch her isn't my thing. Later on yes...and I have no problems paying as almost all the girls I date are young and broke. But whatever works for you.

[Onto]

^ That's all good strategy I've used too.

I think if the chemistry is there it can all build to a boiling point through conversation without ever having to touch her. Of course touching her is good too. Once a first date caught me by surprise by literally springing from her seat, and lunging over the table to kiss me in a packed restaurant. That's how much the tension built up between us. I'll never forget that night. Snowstorm in Greenwich village and we trudged through it all the way back to her condo in Williamsburg for an all-nighter.

Of course I've also had my fair share of dinner dates that were a bust.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-15-2016 08:38 PM)Onto Wrote:  

^ That's all good strategy I've used too.

I think if the chemistry is there it can all build to a boiling point through conversation without ever having to touch her. Of course touching her is good too. Once a first date caught me by surprise by literally springing from her seat, and lunging over the table to kiss me in a packed restaurant. That's how much the tension built up between us. I'll never forget that night. Snowstorm in Greenwich village and we trudged through it all the way back to her condo in Williamsburg for an all-nighter.

Of course I've also had my fair share of dinner dates that were a bust.

That's next level Jedi for me

[goodington]

^ I've had similar results on occasion before... women can indeed get extremely turned on ust through conversation if the guy demonstrates positive attributes - confidence, social dominance, intelligence and humour. I've had girls tell me they got wet just from talking to me, or ask to be taken out of the venue so we can make out/have sex without ever having touched her.

[BassPlayaYo]

(04-15-2016 01:39 PM)johnbozzz Wrote:  

I can't really tell if this is sarcasm. By ordering for a date, I mean, she tells e what she wants, and I dictate to the waiter what she wants to order. I don't actually pick out something for her to eat. It's more of a traditional thing to do on my part. She tells me what she would like, I order it and later, I pick up the tab.

This is called taking charge. Any woman that has a problem with you doing this is a woman you don't want to be around. Exception to this is where she's made it clear she's paying and is taking you out but if she fumbles...take charge.

[Robert Plant]

Some of you guys are trying way to hard to be alpha. Just be yourself, do what you like to do and don't take shit from anyone.

[WeekendCasanova]

(04-16-2016 10:38 AM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

Some of you guys are trying way to hard to be alpha. Just be yourself, do what you like to do and don't take shit from anyone.

People do take the whole "being alpha" thing way too far. At restaurants, I tell the waiter the order, however, I let the girl choose her own food. I would never say "bitch eat this". There's a difference between being Alpha, and being controlling.

The only exception is if I'm bringing a girl to a restaurant that cooks food related to my heritage (i.e a Danish restaurant). In that case, I'd pick for her. If we're going to a bar instead of a restaurant and I arrive before her, I do order her a drink.

I'm usually playful when the girl is ordering her food. Saying I'll judge her if she orders a salad, etc. Have fun with it. You can give your girl a bit of leash.

[Rawmeo]

(04-16-2016 10:49 AM)WeekendCasanova Wrote:  

The only exception is if I'm bringing a girl to a restaurant that cooks food related to my heritage (i.e a Danish restaurant). In that case, I'd pick for her. If we're going to a bar instead of a restaurant and I arrive before her, I do order her a drink.

I do this as well. When we go to the only restaurant in Thailand that can cook food like my hometown, I order. I'd feel shitty if I took a girl from across the city all the way to this restaurant to make her taste something from my heritage, and she would just order a plate of rice.

As for other situations, it all depends on a case-by-case basis. I normally ler her choose while the waiter is away, and when the time comes to order, I place the whole order.

Except in local Thai restaurants; I do not know all the names of the fancy shit, so she can do a better job than me at ordering.

As for the girl bitching "I can order myself", that would be an immediate date termination and I would tell the waiter "sorry, my date isn't behaving as expected, I am afraid I will have to leave". Fortunately, never happened.

[Captain Gh]

Not blaming anyone since we all have our different styles, but damn some of you guys insist on being Mr. Alpha 24/7. For me, especially with our women if today, I just ask the question if she wants me to take care of the bill, and that's it! Ordering for her, insisting vehemently on the location and all is too much of a low rewards high risk type of thing for me.

These are all details that matter very little since it is your manness that gets you laid at the end of the day. On the flipside, I can see this ultra alphaness making guys more attractive to women... so I know some of you can pull that off easy.

[XXL]

What do you mean "for her"? I pick something I want, she picks something she wants, waitress comes and I order what we want.

[Kona]

It depends on the restaurant and the time of day.

If its Denny's let her decide. If its sushi, you do all the talking even if the girl is from Hokkaido, even if you are in Hokkaido.

You have to eat. You can't go to the dog park and then fuck all night on an empty stomach.

Aloha!

[Aquiles_Baesta_Parada]

(04-16-2016 03:23 PM)XXL Wrote:  

What do you mean "for her"? I pick something I want, she picks something she wants, waitress comes and I order what we want.

Coming up on RVF:
'Should your ho ask permission to go the restroom?'
What is the alpha thing to do?!

[WeekendCasanova]

(04-16-2016 04:02 PM)Aquiles_Baesta_Parada Wrote:  

'Should your ho ask permission to go the restroom?'
What is the alpha thing to do?!

My girl gets a strict ten minute period before eating where she can use the bathroom. She can only wipe her ass using Charmin, and I'll only allow her to wash her hands if the water is heated to 48 degrees celsius.

Violation of any of these rules is grounds for termination of the date. She is clearly not respecting my alphaness. Hoes' be hoes.

[Suits]

Last night I told my date what she was going to eat and then I ordered it for her. Was that alpha?

[HankMoody]

(04-15-2016 07:37 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Maybe I'm just old, but I don't subscribe to the "No dinner date before the bang". Of course there are tons of free things you can do on a first date, The park, the water, coffee, museum, etc. and all that's great too. But sometimes you're in the mood to go out and have a meal at a cool restaurant. Granted it costs more, but I don't do it with the intention it's going to entitle me to a bang. I do it because I want to eat there with some company.

Of course the restaurant is close to the apartment or we have to drive back to my place because I made sure we left her car there.

If the chemistry is there she is going to come back to your apartment anyway. Even if you have to take a cab to the other side of town.

Also, you open the doors because it's the masculine thing to do ("taking action in the world"). You don't do it because you're hoping she'll appreciate it, though she should.

Here is my actual philosophy...

If you're a budding player, or new to this shit, don't waste your money taking women out to nice dinners in hopes of a bang. Just don't. Chances are you'll get taken advantage of and your wallet will be lighter. Just like any woman can suck a cock, any idiot can take a nice looking women out to dinner and pay for it.

Once you're experienced, and assuming you have money, do whatever the fuck you want to do with whomever you want. I'll take a new girl out to an expensive dinner because that's what I'm in the mood for - not to try and impress her. If I want steak, we'll get steak, and I'm not going to let her lack of money stand in the way of me eating what I feel like eating. I don't recommend taking every decent looking women you come across to dinner, but there's no need to eat at Applebees.

The key is outcome dependency. After you've smashed enough smuts, the outcome is entirely irrelevant anyway. I hope to bang, but if we don't, it's not the end of the world. At least I got to enjoy steak and scotch instead of frozen chicken fingers. I'm sure as fuck not going to take a woman out to 50 dinners in hopes of a bang, but I'm also not going to relegate myself to Caronaritas until she's sucked my cock.

[HankMoody]

(04-16-2016 05:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  

Last night I told my date what she was going to eat and then I ordered it for her. Was that alpha?

On that note...

If I'm seeing a 21 - 24 year old, I'll usually take her somewhere fancy that has a tasting menu. I'll explain that "this pairs nicely with this, this is the best thing on the menu, this is the best dessert" etc.

I have found that they appreciate you walking them through the menu, particularly if they're unaccustomed to nicer places.

It's not "this is what you're eating bitch", it's more "if we leave this restaurant and you didn't try this one thing, you'd probably regret it your whole life. It pairs nicely with a merlot. Let's do that. If you don't like it, by all means, send it back." My recommendations are always on point. I make sure it's a place I've been to, and a place where the server will recognize my face as a good tipper.

The tactic of ordering for her tends to work more effectively with younger girls who are not used to fine dining. If they've been to the restaurant 50 times chances are they're like "Eh, I've had that. I'd prefer the tartare." If it's their first time there, it's a different story. They appreciate not fumbling through the menu.

[Rawmeo]

(04-16-2016 08:13 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(04-15-2016 07:37 PM)Onto Wrote:  

Maybe I'm just old, but I don't subscribe to the "No dinner date before the bang". Of course there are tons of free things you can do on a first date, The park, the water, coffee, museum, etc. and all that's great too. But sometimes you're in the mood to go out and have a meal at a cool restaurant. Granted it costs more, but I don't do it with the intention it's going to entitle me to a bang. I do it because I want to eat there with some company.

Of course the restaurant is close to the apartment or we have to drive back to my place because I made sure we left her car there.

If the chemistry is there she is going to come back to your apartment anyway. Even if you have to take a cab to the other side of town.

Also, you open the doors because it's the masculine thing to do ("taking action in the world"). You don't do it because you're hoping she'll appreciate it, though she should.

Here is my actual philosophy...

If you're a budding player, or new to this shit, don't waste your money taking women out to nice dinners in hopes of a bang. Just don't. Chances are you'll get taken advantage of and your wallet will be lighter. Just like any woman can suck a cock, any idiot can take a nice looking women out to dinner and pay for it.

Once you're experienced, and assuming you have money, do whatever the fuck you want to do with whomever you want. I'll take a new girl out to an expensive dinner because that's what I'm in the mood for - not to try and impress her. If I want steak, we'll get steak, and I'm not going to let her lack of money stand in the way of me eating what I feel like eating. I don't recommend taking every decent looking women you come across to dinner, but there's no need to eat at Applebees.

The key is outcome dependency. After you've smashed enough smuts, the outcome is entirely irrelevant anyway. I hope to bang, but if we don't, it's not the end of the world. At least I got to enjoy steak and scotch instead of frozen chicken fingers. I'm sure as fuck not going to take a woman out to 50 dinners in hopes of a bang, but I'm also not going to relegate myself to Caronaritas until she's sucked my cock.

Good and valid point, and this is a mistake I made a lot of times in my early days.

A free dinner is not a way to get a bang; it is a way to thank her for a good bang. This means, she's not getting anything from me (or something cheap) as long as she didn't put out. Once she's given me some good sex sessions without LMR and without drama, then I might take her to restaurants and order some vine. That's part of the relationship building process.

If you bring her to a fancy place the first time, without having yet banged her, you're falling into the "sugar daddy" catetory. Since you escalate her SMV too much, your SMV towards her will drop, she'll see you as beta, and you'll be the guy paying for restaurants while she gets fuck with another man.

[LeoneVolpe]

Here's a move I like to pull:

First, I don't bring girls to expensive restaurants when we first start hanging out. I remember telling a girl I just found out about this great little burger place and it was really good and I was going to take her there. I got her in the car and didn't tell her where we were going and pulled into the Wendy's parking lot. She laughed and was like "This is it?" and I said "It's amazing, you have to try it." I still got the bang later.

Since I don't make it a point to fill girls' stomachs with four-star meals, especially before they've earned it. A place I used to go a lot was Chipotle (before the Norovirus was giving everyone the shits over there). I always liked to let the girl go ahead of me in line so I could take a minute to "decide" when, in truth, I pretty much get the same thing every time. They'd go ahead of me and since they'd encounter the cashier first and I'd still be back picking out stuff I wanted in my burrito, she'd have to pay for her own food. Never make the mistake of going in front of her in line or else you'll get suckered with the whole "are these two together?" cashier question. I've never once had it happen where a cashier asked if the girl was going to cover the cost of my food. Funny how that works.

[Suits]

(04-17-2016 01:47 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

Here's a move I like to pull:

First, I don't bring girls to expensive restaurants when we first start hanging out. I remember telling a girl I just found out about this great little burger place and it was really good and I was going to take her there. I got her in the car and didn't tell her where we were going and pulled into the Wendy's parking lot. She laughed and was like "This is it?" and I said "It's amazing, you have to try it." I still got the bang later.

Since I don't make it a point to fill girls' stomachs with four-star meals, especially before they've earned it. A place I used to go a lot was Chipotle (before the Norovirus was giving everyone the shits over there). I always liked to let the girl go ahead of me in line so I could take a minute to "decide" when, in truth, I pretty much get the same thing every time. They'd go ahead of me and since they'd encounter the cashier first and I'd still be back picking out stuff I wanted in my burrito, she'd have to pay for her own food. Never make the mistake of going in front of her in line or else you'll get suckered with the whole "are these two together?" cashier question. I've never once had it happen where a cashier asked if the girl was going to cover the cost of my food. Funny how that works.

You're a genius.

[LeoneVolpe]

(04-17-2016 02:34 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 01:47 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

Here's a move I like to pull:

First, I don't bring girls to expensive restaurants when we first start hanging out. I remember telling a girl I just found out about this great little burger place and it was really good and I was going to take her there. I got her in the car and didn't tell her where we were going and pulled into the Wendy's parking lot. She laughed and was like "This is it?" and I said "It's amazing, you have to try it." I still got the bang later.

Since I don't make it a point to fill girls' stomachs with four-star meals, especially before they've earned it. A place I used to go a lot was Chipotle (before the Norovirus was giving everyone the shits over there). I always liked to let the girl go ahead of me in line so I could take a minute to "decide" when, in truth, I pretty much get the same thing every time. They'd go ahead of me and since they'd encounter the cashier first and I'd still be back picking out stuff I wanted in my burrito, she'd have to pay for her own food. Never make the mistake of going in front of her in line or else you'll get suckered with the whole "are these two together?" cashier question. I've never once had it happen where a cashier asked if the girl was going to cover the cost of my food. Funny how that works.

You're a genius.

Thanks, man. I don't know why I am just now joining the forum, I've been reading Roosh and ROK for years. I guess I just wasn't content with being a lurker anymore, glad to finally join the discussion.

[PapayaTapper]

(04-16-2016 05:04 PM)Suits Wrote:  

Last night I told my date what she was going to eat and then I ordered it for her. Was that alpha?

Food and orders...that's two things.. that's so Dark Diad

[PapayaTapper]

(04-17-2016 02:55 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 02:34 AM)Suits Wrote:  

(04-17-2016 01:47 AM)LeoneVolpe Wrote:  

Here's a move I like to pull:

First, I don't bring girls to expensive restaurants when we first start hanging out. I remember telling a girl I just found out about this great little burger place and it was really good and I was going to take her there. I got her in the car and didn't tell her where we were going and pulled into the Wendy's parking lot. She laughed and was like "This is it?" and I said "It's amazing, you have to try it." I still got the bang later.

Since I don't make it a point to fill girls' stomachs with four-star meals, especially before they've earned it. A place I used to go a lot was Chipotle (before the Norovirus was giving everyone the shits over there). I always liked to let the girl go ahead of me in line so I could take a minute to "decide" when, in truth, I pretty much get the same thing every time. They'd go ahead of me and since they'd encounter the cashier first and I'd still be back picking out stuff I wanted in my burrito, she'd have to pay for her own food. Never make the mistake of going in front of her in line or else you'll get suckered with the whole "are these two together?" cashier question. I've never once had it happen where a cashier asked if the girl was going to cover the cost of my food. Funny how that works.

You're a genius.

Thanks, man. I don't know why I am just now joining the forum, I've been reading Roosh and ROK for years. I guess I just wasn't content with being a lurker anymore, glad to finally join the discussion.

First post I read this morning...today is going to be fucking epic!