[VincentVinturi]

I recently read a fantastic article aimed at expats in Thailand in which the author, among other golden suggestions, exhorts the hordes of fool ass men who come here to *stop giving Thai women money*!

Modern women value a number of things.

If Maslow were an RVFer he might place them from most important to least important in roughly the following order:

- Survival
- Safety
- Comfort
- Reproduction
- Attention
- Validation
- Making other women jealous

When thirsty ass dudes show up in Thailand and start doling money out to Thai chicks for no earthly reason, they automatically inflate the price of sex (and I’m NOT talking about the P4P scene but the normal women in the country).

There are guys who don’t even live here, visit intermittently but still send their sweethearts hundreds (sometimes thousands!) of dollars per month for no apparent reason.

Usually these guys are persuaded to empty their bank accounts piecemeal through a well-crafted combination of guilt tripping (“you no love me”), sob stories (“mom is sick”), reverse psychology (“I no want any money, teerak! I have job”), the promise of sex — all seeds planted in the fertile soil of desperation.

And if you think only career vampires make use of these tactics you’d be wrong.

Many ostensibly normal Thai girls from middle class families have been incentivized to start playing foreign men so they can live the lifestyle they see other chicks living on Instagram and Facebook.

How many dinners, drinks, and shisha nights do you think an office worker in Bangkok earning $450/month can really afford?

How about that new iPhone AND iPad she just got?

That’s a month’s salary and two month’s salary, respectively.

Clearly, there’s a line around the corner of foreign chumps ready to throw money at these women just because they’re hot and feminine.

That’s how starved for femininity we are in the West.

“Well, Vincent” you may say, “that’s the marketplace and men are free to spend their money on whatsoever they wish if they feel they’re getting value back”.

But are they getting value back? And is it commensurate value?

Or, more likely, are they getting taken to the cleaners?

Here’s where Western men are grossly disadvantaged: we don’t come from haggling cultures.

The most you can expect in the US is to go to a farmer’s market where you pay FIXED prices for kale and organic peanut butter and shit which is usually MORE expensive than what you’d pay in the store.

By contrast, if you go the bazaar in a haggling culture you’re bound to pay less for just about everything.

Go ahead and hit up the farmer’s market at the Ferry Building in San Francisco and try negotiating for those heirloom tomatoes.

You’ll be promptly and cutely asked to take a hike by a gay guy in skinny jeans.

Therefore we have no sense of the true value of things, especially as foreigners who don’t know the local market.

And nobody is going to kindly fill you in either.

So just because you CAN give chicks money for merely existing, doesn’t mean you SHOULD.

Would you go to the ATM, withdraw 1000 dollars and then throw half of it in the garbage on the spot?

Fuck no.

So then why would you be sending chicks money, buying them things, bowing to every tender request for cash, and feeding an insatiable monster luxurious dinners and getaways that are only as good as the ones her friends are getting?

“So WTF does this have to do with White Knights?”, you ask.

Everything.

White Knights lavish women with another type of currency - validation.

They tank the price that women have to pay for behaving badly.

In fact, in the West, White Knights subsidize shitty behavior almost entirely.

White Knights participate in the emasculation of other men because normal men, men with balls, will never take a girl’s shit.

He’ll give her the smack that she deserves and that’ll be the end of it.

In White Knight land, this will result in an ass whooping, legal ramifications, incarceration and ostracism.

In the rest of the world it’s called putting a woman in her place.

Therefore, White Knights inflate the market value of women across multiple dimensions to stupid levels.

Have you noticed that in just about every Poosy Paradise on earth - Ukraine, Thailand, The Phils, Colombia - the local men treat women with borderline if not outright neglect?

Certainly, a local guy doesn’t on average have the same resources that a “rich” foreigner from the West has and therefore is necessarily more reluctant to spend his meager earnings cavalierly just for a faint whiff of Eau du Poon.

But the local men also understand their women better, aren’t smitten by their exoticism (to them they aren’t exotic), see their sweet smiles for what they are: angling, and most of all know just how little they need to pay (in any currency) to get what they want.

White Knights are odious for the same reason the Fed is odious.

They print validation out of thin air, thus devaluing YOUR validation which has to actually be earned.

Most tragically of all, White Knights think they can curry favor with a women (and “women” in general) by saving them from this and that.

But women find White Knights repulsive because they themselves know that they’re being rewarded for nothing.

And a man who lavishes value on a woman in any form, be it monetary or otherwise without her earning it is a man who does not value himself.

A man with low self worth and poor self esteem is a useful idiot who works for free in the service of female tyranny.

Finally, if one day all men got together and said “we’re not giving women a damn thing anymore” then the women of the world would change their tune overnight.

You want American women to be feminine again?

Take away the welfare state, alimony, child support, free health care, anti-male laws, and unearned benefits of every stripe from women.

Men don’t see the connection between economics proper and gender economics.

They’re one in the same.

[The Black Knight]

There is a reason I chose the username I did.

I hate White Knights for all the reasons you listed. We blame women for a lot of things but it's the White Knights who are often the root cause of many problems in society. And therefore, White Knights need to be shamed out of existence.

Every man should be a Black Knight.

[Rush87]

Quote:

"Finally, if one day all men got together and said “we’re not giving women a damn thing anymore” then the women of the world would change their tune overnight."

Unfortunately this is a novel concept, but much like socialism [And those that preach world peace and unity] it goes against human nature. I feel this is one of those areas where you can preach to men until you're blue in the face, but nothing will change [That said: The few men you get through to are no doubt worth the effort].

[Quintus Curtius]

Agreed.

But the big questions are:

Is white knightery increasing, decreasing, or staying the same?

And what is the best way to limit it? Shaming? Education? Propaganda?

[Snowplow]

(04-15-2016 12:56 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Agreed.

But the big questions are:

Is white knightery increasing, decreasing, or staying the same?

And what is the best way to limit it? Shaming? Education? Propaganda?

Send in The Little Dark.

[El Chinito loco]

Besides Thailand i've seen and heard of this plenty of times in the Philippines too. I was banging the shit out of one girl who said that her former American suitor (middle aged dweeb like you would expect) sent her tuition 2 or 3 years straight to finish university. This guy visited her less than a handful of times. So he flew all the way from the U.S. to the Philippines to "court" her and on top of that he was paying what is essentially a full time salary to finish school. Here's the funny thing about this..this was not the first time I heard this too..i've heard identical sponsorship stories from a few girls. Some who were actively being sponsored as I was banging them and others who had at one point in their life had some guy footing the bill and were now "single" again.

This sort of behavior not only ups the bitch factor in the market it often turns regular girls into p4p gold diggers. If you think this is bad try talking with girls who actually _do_ the whole expat scene a lot. They are nearly identical to American whores in demeanor and yolo type shit.

Like I said before a lot of the degradation of the anglosphere and parts of Europe has to do with the way men cater towards anything with a pussy too. It's not all just one direction with feminism tanking the culture. Western men absolutely do need to take responsibility for behavior that enables this.

[Leonard D Neubache]

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

[El Chinito loco]

(04-15-2016 01:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

You can find new hunting grounds for sure or even poach existing ones by banging girls with multiple simps sponsoring them. That's not the issue.

The issue is when you inject this type of "westernization" and by throwing money around like the biggest beta bucks simp it just straight ruins women in general. Attitudes get worse and so does the overall quality.

For instance NOT becoming the male/female situation in Australia is actually a pretty good goal to have.

Why would anyone be a proponent of white knight simps especially when it's directly imported from the west.

[Glaucon]

(04-15-2016 01:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

We are running out of hunting grounds at this rate....

[Anabasis to Desta]

Brilliant post VV and i actually repped you earlier today.

But couldn't a girl complain about the same from a female perspective?

I've read a couple of female articles complaining about how slutty, low self-esteem girls who give up their pussies too easily are ruining it for other women who are actually looking for relationships/marriage by lowering the market value of punani.

Which is true and brings us to the root of the problem.

Instead of the traditional values of loyalty to God, Family and Country ... we live in a world that values individualism and money above all else.

Which has resulted in a severe drought for human connection. ANY human connection. We're not that close to our families and communities anymore. Friends can be discarded and replaced at will. Emotional thirst is the modern day epidemic not sexual thirst.

Which is why a sweet pretty girl-next-door type would blow a guy 10 minutes after meeting him if he can re-create that feeling of warmth and intimacy her family/community would have filled in the past. Same reason why some white-knight beta will pay thousands of dollars for some OK looking Thai bitch just to call her "mine". All these guys know they could fuck a different Cambodian hooker everyday for 3 years with that kind of money.

But sex is not the point here. It's the need to feel loved and wanted. For both sexes. White-knights buck easy and sluts fuck easy for the faintest chance at some emotional connection with someone.

Best weapon against any white-knighting and supplicating behavior arising within a man would be a solid/close relationship with family and friends along with a great career. At that point ... validation or "love" from some basic bitch in the Philippines or Thailand becomes a joke. A Black Knight is born.

Best indicator of wifey material would be the same. A strong & healthy relationship with her family, siblings and friends which results in minimum need for validation a.k.a slutiness.

[Speculation]

(04-15-2016 01:27 AM)Glaucon Wrote:  

(04-15-2016 01:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

We are running out of hunting grounds at this rate....

Western culture is spreading and the attendant pedestalisation is spreading with it.

Horrible local talent is pushing white knights out into the 3rd world to sponsor foreign women.

Providership will eventually die as a means of attracting women, barring some sort of economic collapse. Even in poorer places like Thailand where the women should value the hard currency on offer by their sponsors, they treat them like an atm and cheat on the side.

Smart phones/social media/online dating has already given women in poorer countries the same access to addictive free validation that their western sisters possess.

There is no choice but in developing masculinity/game. The way of the beta is dying out.

[GlobalMan]

(04-15-2016 01:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

Can you point out who the "hater" is?

And are the dudes sponsoring third word 6's, who they aren't banging, the "players" ?

[Phoenix]

(04-15-2016 12:56 AM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

Agreed.

But the big questions are:

Is white knightery increasing, decreasing, or staying the same?

And what is the best way to limit it? Shaming? Education? Propaganda?

Jousts.

[Leonard D Neubache]

edit: pending rethink

I do have a bad habit of skimming OPs that use broad spacing rather than paragraphs. My bad.

Regardless, whether it be thirsty expats or white knights, these men are putting their own value on their attentions. We may deride them for undervaluing that attention and wiping out the market but look at the reality. These white knights and betas are not worthy of anything more than the abuse they bring upon themselves.

So our society is going to shit. Nothing much new there. Fact is it's way beyond your, or my, or anyone else's ability to rectify.

So yes, the OP is technically correct. No, you can't fix it. Silver lining, mass beta indoctrination makes alphas look better by comparison.

[godzilla]

Not disagreeing with what your saying...

But aren't most of these thirsty expats much older men?

Even if the west started to re-adopt more traditional values, wouldn't these dudes still be over there?

Older men paying for young pussy is nothing new. That's been going on for thousands of years. The only difference is its now being exported

Obviously, if these dudes were raising familes, maybe they wouldn't be over there in the first place? Honestly, I don't know the answer

[El Chinito loco]

(04-15-2016 04:02 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

Not disagreeing with what your saying...

But aren't most of these thirsty expats much older men?

Nope. Not all by a long shot. That's the disturbing trend.

I see a lot of fairly young guys doing the same shit middle aged numbnuts are doing. Last time I was in BKK just in the condo I was staying in I saw quite a few obvious long haul foreign guys with decent but not outstanding Thai girls. Maybe 6 and 7's. They were basically doing all the bitch work pushing around shopping carts of shit in and out of the building. You could just tell what the relationship was by the body language and dynamic. The thai girl had nose high up was talking on her phone with purse slung on one elbow crook while dude was doing all this labor with a bitch look on his face.

I've seen it in social circles too. Girl shows around foreign boyfriend like showpiece while foreign bf treats all her close besties while he stands around looking like a toolbag not really privvy to the conversation which is all in a foreign language. When girls don't even have the respect to accommodate you in a social setting or language shift you know you ain't shit.

To be fair i've seen way worse in the Philippines too. A chode muffin looking guy with an entire clan of filipinos supping on the finest of foods while dorkling has a lost look on his face. "his" girl sits prominent beside him and has this haughty look on her face interacting with just the family most of the time and maybe pausing a moment or two to throw out some obvious trivial sign of affection to the sad sack. The bill comes and it's obvious who is picking up the tab for this occasion .

More older guys do it for sure but there's more older expats in asia (and probably latin america/EE) in general.

It's guys raised on the same principles doing the same shit.

It's a multi-generation cultural thing and not really an age thing.

[godzilla]

That is pretty fucking disturbing....

I was only in Thailand a short time.

Come to think of it, I did some see young some foreign dudes out at the mall with some smoking thai girls. They were good looking enough where I never thought of it that way.

[Patriarch]

(04-15-2016 01:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

This is what happens when you only read the first sentence.

Fantastic post, and I see the same thing here in Vietnam, but to a lesser extent. Frequently, it's Korean men and guys from Hong Kong or Singapore feeding the Instagram whore lifestyle, just as much as westerners.

[El Chinito loco]

(04-15-2016 04:38 AM)godzilla Wrote:  

That is pretty fucking disturbing....

I was only in Thailand a short time.

Come to think of it, I did some see young some foreign dudes out at the mall with some smoking thai girls. They were good looking enough where I never thought of it that way.

It's not all. There are plenty of good looking and even well heeled guys out there playing the game as per expectations. However the ratio is weighed towards the simps out there.

You don't even have to be particularly good looking you just need to understand what the girls are about in these countries, maintain dress & etiquette, and have a semi-decent social network.

Pseudo Ryan Goslings running around with Thai smokers aren't hitting up they are still hitting down in the scheme of things. Third world princess with first world stud..yeah ok.

Beauty, life, and everything else is really cheap in most of Asia...especially southeast Asia.

That's the sad truth. You have to realize your value and adjust your expectations.

[[email protected]]

from: thread-53716-page-2.html

(02-11-2016 04:06 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

The two main problems I see that originate from men are:

1. white knighting
2. thirst

With white knighting driven by thirst. So everything comes from thirst.

White knighting is not just the case of a guy "saving" one of his female friends from a bad guy, or jumping in to defend a female stranger on public transport, it has literally taken horrible form across society as a whole. It is now embedded in the legal system, the policies of western governments, the mainstream media... EVERYTHING.

The result is women, even the ugliest women both inside and out, being treated as superior citizens to men. PP in courts, exorbitant welfare spending, special protections, lack of personal responsibility. It all comes from the men who have made the rules, and the men who ultimately enforce them. Constantly decreasing quality of women as a result of lack of personal responsibility decreases the pool of attractive women, men compete for a smaller and smaller number of attractive women so many are forced to take low quality women, thirst just continues to increase, and when thirst increases, white knighting on every level, at every scale, of society, and what you end up with is a toxic, cancerous vicious circle.

Thirst and white knighting that comes from it needs to be stopped. But I'm not sure the solution is yet more shaming of men. Men are already scared as it is. Deep thirst without conscious knowledge of what it is, is something difficult to cure. Often only "drinking" will cure thirst, not yet more shaming, which more often leads to lower success with women and increased thirst. If most men cannot drink as they want to, or they drink very rarely and very poor quality "water" at that, their hindbrains will hijack them the minute they see a remotely pretty girl. Men who have fucked 100s of genuinely beautiful girls obviously are less likely to be affected and far less likely to whiteknight. But these are in the minority and generally not among the men who set and enforce the rules. Judges: betas. Men in government/politicians: betas. Policemen: betas. Most men: betas. The guys who don't white knight are very rare, and are often too busy fucking girls to care about wider social problems.

This pretty much.

The Anglosphere is its breaking point anyway. Just let it fail.

[262]

(04-15-2016 01:43 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Brilliant post VV and i actually repped you earlier today.

But couldn't a girl complain about the same from a female perspective?

I've read a couple of female articles complaining about how slutty, low self-esteem girls who give up their pussies too easily are ruining it for other women who are actually looking for relationships/marriage by lowering the market value of punani.

If most of the value a girl brings to a potential relationship is between her legs, she shouldn't be surprised that that's most of the value guys get from her.

No, what the females complaining in these articles need to do is learn female Game. But, like most men, most women are too lazy.

(04-15-2016 01:43 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Instead of the traditional values of loyalty to God, Family and Country ... we live in a world that values individualism and money above all else.

Not quite. As VV pointed out, we live in an increasingly socialist world (feminism is just socialism for women). Most men and women want society to change for them, instead of the reverse. In fact, they're too lazy to truly be individuals or earn money.

(04-15-2016 01:43 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Which has resulted in a severe drought for human connection. ANY human connection. We're not that close to our families and communities anymore. Friends can be discarded and replaced at will. Emotional thirst is the modern day epidemic not sexual thirst.

Continuing the not quite - in a socialist world, as long as free stuff comes from the government, forcefully taken from productive people, unproductive people don't have to depend on friends, families, or communities.

Unfortunately, the African-American community is a canary in the coal mine on that. They tend to take welfare, so without being dependent on friends, families, or communities, those institutions become weakened.

(04-15-2016 01:43 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Which is why a sweet pretty girl-next-door type would blow a guy 10 minutes after meeting him if he can re-create that feeling of warmth and intimacy her family/community would have filled in the past. Same reason why some white-knight beta will pay thousands of dollars for some OK looking Thai bitch just to call her "mine". All these guys know they could fuck a different Cambodian hooker everyday for 3 years with that kind of money.

But sex is not the point here. It's the need to feel loved and wanted. For both sexes. White-knights buck easy and sluts fuck easy for the faintest chance at some emotional connection with someone.

Rolling on with the not quite - despite being in a socialist world, girls still want attention, and guys still want sex. But since nobody depends on anybody except the government forcefully taking from the producers, the girls give sex like candy to the top guys, in a desperate bid for their attention and resources, while the guys give out attention and what little resources they have like candy to the easiest girls, in a desperate bid for sex.

(04-15-2016 01:43 AM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

Best weapon against any white-knighting and supplicating behavior arising within a man would be a solid/close relationship with family and friends along with a great career. At that point ... validation or "love" from some basic bitch in the Philippines or Thailand becomes a joke. A Black Knight is born.

Best indicator of wifey material would be the same. A strong & healthy relationship with her family, siblings and friends which results in minimum need for validation a.k.a slutiness.

Finally - the best weapon against undesired behaviors is a free market that punishes them. No bailouts for women who ride the cock carousel. No bailouts for men who supplicate against their own interests.

[Leonard D Neubache]

(04-15-2016 04:53 AM)[email protected] Wrote:  

from: thread-53716-page-2.html

(02-11-2016 04:06 AM)ChickenLover9T9 Wrote:  

... But these are in the minority and generally not among the men who set and enforce the rules. Judges: betas. Men in government/politicians: betas. Policemen: betas. Most men: betas. The guys who don't white knight are very rare, and are often too busy fucking girls to care about wider social problems.

This pretty much.

The Anglosphere is its breaking point anyway. Just let it fail.

Minor correction to be made IMO. Judges, politicians and many cops play the beta and enforce betaship because it makes for citizens who are obedient tax-cattle. That doesn't mean they're not balls deep in many fine bitches. They just preach and enforce a different game to the one they play.

p.s. Many guys are family men who are more or less happy with their lot, except of course for their nation being yanked out from underneath them. Betas consist of the unhappy married/unmarried. What the proportions are is hard to say.

[Crisp]

There is a no tipping culture here in China, which every expat knows. I'm at this bar the other night, after listening to his bad game to a waitress, this guy then attempts to give her a tip as he is leaving. She has no idea what it is for and tells him that he already paid his bill and doesn't need to pay more. He gets all red faced, sees me smirking at the situation too, and is trying to explain what a tip means. In the end he is literally just holding out his money and telling her to take it from him. She took it and he put his head down as he crawled away. I can't ever imagine begging someone to take free money from me.

[Going strong]

(04-15-2016 04:43 AM)Patriarch Wrote:  

(04-15-2016 01:19 AM)Leonard D Neubache Wrote:  

Sorry to sound like a dick, but players play and haters hate.

If the hunting grounds have been sullied then find new hunting grounds.

p.s. ...or lift your game.

This is what happens when you only read the first sentence.

Fantastic post, and I see the same thing here in Vietnam, but to a lesser extent. Frequently, it's Korean men and guys from Hong Kong or Singapore feeding the Instagram whore lifestyle, just as much as westerners.

^ This. OP is right in his analysis, but wrong when putting the blame only on Western men. Rich Korean men for example, are damaging the "foreign-pussy" market much more than Western men do. Much more. I mean, look at the sheer number of KTV joints in Manila... hundreds of 6s 7s 8s tied up in these places and off the normal market.

Same stuff with Slavic women and Gulf millionaire fuckers. Thousands of slavic girls off the market cause they are whoring in Dubai, or dreaming or preparing to go to Dubai.
You want proof: remember the plane that went down some weeks ago? There were like 3 times more women than men inside, and why?? Reason: full of 7+ hookers and even 6 portable-potties, coming back from Dubai...

So, I think that Korean and Gulf rich dudes are harming the beautiful-pussies worldwide market much more than Western men (half of us anyway can spend only moderate amount of gift and cash on cunning foreign women)

[Suits]

(04-15-2016 08:19 AM)Crisp Wrote:  

There is a no tipping culture here in China, which every expat knows. I'm at this bar the other night, after listening to his bad game to a waitress, this guy then attempts to give her a tip as he is leaving. She has no idea what it is for and tells him that he already paid his bill and doesn't need to pay more. He gets all red faced, sees me smirking at the situation too, and is trying to explain what a tip means. In the end he is literally just holding out his money and telling her to take it from him. She took it and he put his head down as he crawled away. I can't ever imagine begging someone to take free money from me.

Great story. I needed a good laugh.