[Suits]

(11-15-2017 10:26 PM)hervens Wrote:  

Does anyone here own a convenience store, or ever thought of opening one?
2 years now into the workforce and I'm slowly starting to feel like I don't really belong in the corporate world. I have around $50k to my name at this point.

From the numbers I've seen, convenience stores seem to be a pretty affordable way to own a small business. They hours might be grueling, but it's not long hours I'm worried about, it's office politics, tensions between colleagues, etc.

Are you planning to do this in Canada? If so, you should be aware that the entry requirements are fairly strict?

First off, are you of Korean or Middle Eastern descent?

Secondly, are you an immigrant who was a doctor back home?

[Running Turtles]

Before opening a brick & mortar convenience store, see if you can get a van and deliver alcohol and food after stores close. I've seen a few of these businesses and assume they make decent money as overhead is low and the ones in my area have been around for some time.

Make sure selling alcohol is legal in your area though. Many places require you to have a license.

[Malone]

So my relentless contacting of multinational corporations marketing directors is starting to bear fruit, with 2 director level guys getting back to me today (from separate companies).

Funnily enough, it seems easier to get traction with the guys higher up the totem pole then those lower down.

Also, the women are often "too busy" to even look at an email that has a slide deck and 1 minute video.

[Lighter]

(11-15-2017 10:26 PM)hervens Wrote:  

Does anyone here own a convenience store, or ever thought of opening one?
2 years now into the workforce and I'm slowly starting to feel like I don't really belong in the corporate world. I have around $50k to my name at this point.

From the numbers I've seen, convenience stores seem to be a pretty affordable way to own a small business. They hours might be grueling, but it's not long hours I'm worried about, it's office politics, tensions between colleagues, etc.

A relative of mine owned one for 40 years and it's not a business I would recommend.

You're going to be creating a middle class job for yourself (unless you start franchising your store), but working 60+ hour weeks with no PTO and little vacation, dealing with robberies, shoplifters, government regulations/tax, finding your own health insurance (if in the US), and managing bottom of the barrel minimum wage employees.

My recommendation for exiting the workforce is to find a problem/need in your current industry, create a solution, and sell it. There are always problems/needs in every business. You just have to discover them and build a solution.

Alternatively, you could find a problem/need in one of your hobbies and build a solution to it.

Obviously, this is hard and could take years of 60+ hour weeks with little pay, but if you're solving a problem with lots of magnitude and/or scale the payoff will be immense and...

solving big problems and adding value is a lot of fun

[Lighter]

double post

[AneroidOcean]

(11-15-2017 10:26 PM)hervens Wrote:  

Does anyone here own a convenience store, or ever thought of opening one?
2 years now into the workforce and I'm slowly starting to feel like I don't really belong in the corporate world. I have around $50k to my name at this point.

From the numbers I've seen, convenience stores seem to be a pretty affordable way to own a small business. They hours might be grueling, but it's not long hours I'm worried about, it's office politics, tensions between colleagues, etc.

I would highly recommend before starting a business that everything has been figured out on before, to go seek out some owners and pick their brain about whether it's an idea worth pursuing.

It seems on the surface to have a LOT of nonsense to deal with and not a lot of upside.

Why not pursue something that could theoretically net you decent income without a lot of hours involved, such as a laundromat or a dry cleaners (they seem to mostly farm their dry cleaning out to larger businesses that offer those services)? That way you could minimize the amount of time you have to spend on them and you could start out while still having a day job and solid income.

[Ethan.Allan]

I've started some preliminary research for online mail-order for my product. From the folks I've introduced it to there was quite a bit of excitement despite the product not being finished. Even a bit of interest in buying/renting. The material cost appears to be relatively low compared to what people would pay for it and what competitors (there are very few) are charging. If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.
If I went into further detail of the product it would compromise my anonymity, but the product is only a small part, eh?
I've thought about some social media marketing, and running a storefront through e-bay. Although I probably should figure out how to make my own web page or hire someone. Perhaps kicking the entire thing off with a small kickstarter campaign to pay for business registration, website creation and initial stock. Contact local news, that sort of stuff.
Any advice?

[hervens]

(11-16-2017 01:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Are you planning to do this in Canada? If so, you should be aware that the entry requirements are fairly strict?

First off, are you of Korean or Middle Eastern descent?

Secondly, are you an immigrant who was a doctor back home?

Yes In Canada.
Nope, not asian, grew up here. Though I did notice most c-store owners around here seem to be of asian descent.

(11-16-2017 01:14 PM)Lighter Wrote:  

A relative of mine owned one for 40 years and it's not a business I would recommend.

You're going to be creating a middle class job for yourself (unless you start franchising your store), but working 60+ hour weeks with no PTO and little vacation, dealing with robberies, shoplifters, government regulations/tax, finding your own health insurance (if in the US), and managing bottom of the barrel minimum wage employees.

My recommendation for exiting the workforce is to find a problem/need in your current industry, create a solution, and sell it. There are always problems/needs in every business. You just have to discover them and build a solution.

Alternatively, you could find a problem/need in one of your hobbies and build a solution to it.

Obviously, this is hard and could take years of 60+ hour weeks with little pay, but if you're solving a problem with lots of magnitude and/or scale the payoff will be immense and...

solving big problems and adding value is a lot of fun

Thanks for the advice
I know there's no ideal solution, but to me, purchasing an existing profitable convenience store seems to be one of the easiest and straightforward ways out of my corporate job.
I've been thinking of going in business for myself since I was a kid, and now the routine and constant feeling of being trapped is starting to drive me insane. I actually feel guilty saying this, because any bystander would tell me I should feel lucky to be there, and that my work is pretty chill compared to a lot of people.

I have an online business on the side I'm pretty passionate about, but the revenue is very sporadic, and I don't feel comfortable leaving my job with it as my only source of income.

(11-16-2017 06:40 PM)AneroidOcean Wrote:  

I would highly recommend before starting a business that everything has been figured out on before, to go seek out some owners and pick their brain about whether it's an idea worth pursuing.

It seems on the surface to have a LOT of nonsense to deal with and not a lot of upside.

Why not pursue something that could theoretically net you decent income without a lot of hours involved, such as a laundromat or a dry cleaners (they seem to mostly farm their dry cleaning out to larger businesses that offer those services)? That way you could minimize the amount of time you have to spend on them and you could start out while still having a day job and solid income.

Laundromats could also be a good option, however I'm not sure they're as profitable as convenience stores for the same investment. Will look more into this.

Thanks all for the feedback.
Once I come up on a final decision, I will let you guys know.

[Suits]

Today is my day off. I have two days a week that I have no scheduled responsibilities, but I generally work one of them from home or in a bar/coffee shop doing product development tasks.

My consistent effort to put one foot in front of the other (even if that merely meant 1 or 2 hours of product development work on some days), has led up to my product having enough critical mass that I'm becoming highly motivated to work on it whenever I have a free moment.

I have to make sure that I remain healthy, though, and not overdo it (because my productivity suffers when I'm not getting proper rest), so I try to take one full day off each week.

I try to make that day as educational as possible, includes some light exercise and take some time to catch up on any housekeeping tasks that I've been ignoring.

Here's a video I'm watching right now.

(11-16-2017 11:16 PM)hervens Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 01:31 AM)Suits Wrote:  

Are you planning to do this in Canada? If so, you should be aware that the entry requirements are fairly strict?

First off, are you of Korean or Middle Eastern descent?

Secondly, are you an immigrant who was a doctor back home?

Yes In Canada.
Nope, not asian, grew up here. Though I did notice most c-store owners around here seem to be of asian descent.

There's a reason for that. Asian immigrants typically have a worth ethic where they are willing to work insane hours to own something of their own and avoid a career track where their lack of local experience and limited language skills will hurt their ability to maximize their potential.

Unless you are planning to re-invent the c-store industry (I've actually got a few ideas about this, but I'm not going to post them publicly here), you'd best seek other business opportunities.

[Lighter]

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

Is this a typo? The way I'm reading is if your competition sells it for $100, then you would sell it for $10.

If that's the case, are you adding enough profit margin to cover business expenses (shipping costs, advertising, your salary, funds for reordering inventory, future product development, refunds, and product defects)?

If you are, then why would you want to sell it for such a low price and lose out on all that money? Why not sell it for 90% of what the competitor is selling it for and reinvest the profits to grow the business? You'd have plenty of customers and your margins would be massive.

I've had nothing but trouble with selling on eBay. It attracts bargain hunters and dumb people.

I prefer running my own Shopify store because I can charge higher prices and it gives me more control. Not too hard to set up, but everyone these days seems to have a Shopify store.

[kirdiesel]

(11-17-2017 12:46 AM)Lighter Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

I've had nothing but trouble with selling on eBay. It attracts bargain hunters and dumb people.

I prefer running my own Shopify store because I can charge higher prices and it gives me more control. Not too hard to set up, but everyone these days seems to have a Shopify store.

More info on this. I am the largest seller of my items on eBay and just going from my numbers on eBay ive sold 19K of inventory in the last 60 days. (its more than that) Business is OK but I am ABSOLUTELY fed up with the people and I feel like my items are worth more than they are getting on there. I just don't have a proper place to sell them outside eBay.

Typical eBay bullshit:

Item costs $600 plus TAX new in the store. I am already selling the same item at say 330 shipped.. BUY IT NOW.. customer messages anyway and asks if they can have the same item for 305 shipped because they dont have 25 dollars more to spend WTF. If you have 305 you have fucking 330 dollars you POS. This is day in and day out on eBay.

I am thinking of trying my hand out selling on Instagram as it is somewhat fashion related.

[qwertyuiop]

(11-16-2017 11:16 PM)hervens Wrote:  

I've been thinking of going in business for myself since I was a kid, and now the routine and constant feeling of being trapped is starting to drive me insane.

If you feel trapped in your job now, imagine being tied to the location of your convenience store. A few years back I had a business which tied me to a location. Never again.

[1818Steve]

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

Any advice?

Pricing at 10% of the competition's price looks too good to be true so most people will assume that it is a scam.

[Ethan.Allan]

(11-17-2017 12:46 AM)Lighter Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

Is this a typo? The way I'm reading is if your competition sells it for $100, then you would sell it for $10.

If that's the case, are you adding enough profit margin to cover business expenses (shipping costs, advertising, your salary, funds for reordering inventory, future product development, refunds, and product defects)?

If you are, then why would you want to sell it for such a low price and lose out on all that money? Why not sell it for 90% of what the competitor is selling it for and reinvest the profits to grow the business? You'd have plenty of customers and your margins would be massive.

I've had nothing but trouble with selling on eBay. It attracts bargain hunters and dumb people.

I prefer running my own Shopify store because I can charge higher prices and it gives me more control. Not too hard to set up, but everyone these days seems to have a Shopify store.

(11-17-2017 11:38 AM)1818Steve Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

Any advice?

Pricing at 10% of the competition's price looks too good to be true so most people will assume that it is a scam.

Nope. Not a typo and not too good to be true.

Thing is the competition isn't even selling their product, but they claim they'd sell it for $50,000 someday. It's a rather niche product. But there is still great demand for it, which puts the market in a position that's rather odd. And exciting for sneaky little bastards-er-innovators like me. I can market it as "The Worlds First Consumer-Friendly [product]". I'd pretty much be the consumer trail-blazer for this product.

Even at 10% of the competitors price theoretically I'm still looking at a massive margin.
So far with development I have spent at most $500 on 1 1/2 prototypes (interchangeable parts) and have achieved similar results to the competitor. So around $5k for a finished product with bells and whistles wouldn't make too shabby of a margin.

The main difference is that the competitors are using a more expensive material for their product. But I've had similar results with cheaper materials.

Breaking down the product for shipping will be interesting but not challenging, but that makes an additional few $$$ for an assembly/owners manual.

And frankly, I'd be starting out with building this product in my garage. I'll be looking into shopify.

[qwertyuiop]

(11-17-2017 07:06 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

(11-17-2017 12:46 AM)Lighter Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

Is this a typo? The way I'm reading is if your competition sells it for $100, then you would sell it for $10.

If that's the case, are you adding enough profit margin to cover business expenses (shipping costs, advertising, your salary, funds for reordering inventory, future product development, refunds, and product defects)?

If you are, then why would you want to sell it for such a low price and lose out on all that money? Why not sell it for 90% of what the competitor is selling it for and reinvest the profits to grow the business? You'd have plenty of customers and your margins would be massive.

I've had nothing but trouble with selling on eBay. It attracts bargain hunters and dumb people.

I prefer running my own Shopify store because I can charge higher prices and it gives me more control. Not too hard to set up, but everyone these days seems to have a Shopify store.

(11-17-2017 11:38 AM)1818Steve Wrote:  

(11-16-2017 07:35 PM)Ethan.Allan Wrote:  

If I entered the field I'd be selling my product for (at most) 10% of the competition's price.

Any advice?

Pricing at 10% of the competition's price looks too good to be true so most people will assume that it is a scam.

Nope. Not a typo and not too good to be true.

Thing is the competition isn't even selling their product, but they claim they'd sell it for $50,000 someday. It's a rather niche product. But there is still great demand for it, which puts the market in a position that's rather odd. And exciting for sneaky little bastards-er-innovators like me. I can market it as "The Worlds First Consumer-Friendly [product]". I'd pretty much be the consumer trail-blazer for this product.

Even at 10% of the competitors price theoretically I'm still looking at a massive margin.
So far with development I have spent at most $500 on 1 1/2 prototypes (interchangeable parts) and have achieved similar results to the competitor. So around $5k for a finished product with bells and whistles wouldn't make too shabby of a margin.

The main difference is that the competitors are using a more expensive material for their product. But I've had similar results with cheaper materials.

Breaking down the product for shipping will be interesting but not challenging, but that makes an additional few $$$ for an assembly/owners manual.

And frankly, I'd be starting out with building this product in my garage. I'll be looking into shopify.

Are you selling b2b? if the price is that low call up possible clients and charge them 30k and watch them run to buy.

[Ski pro]

Has anyone here had any experience with the business phenomenon where you increase your prices and get more business?

The theory runs that if you are more expensive than everyone else, people perceive what you are offering as of better quality.

I guess your marketing has to be slicker to reflect this perceived extra quality but is there anyone here that this has actually worked for?

[456]

@Ski pro -- absolutely.

Long story short: there are many companies out there who would rather pay $50k for something and have a company to blame, than pay $2k to "someone off the internet" and then the hirer looks bad if SHTF.

So if you're in a market with big operators charging $50k and supporting big office and staff, and you are leaner, charge $35k and let them talk you down to $30k and you both win.

Learn how and when to say "we", and that is part of the key to owning your Quality Premium and monopoly on being you (as a solutioneer, not just a service provider, for example).

I've referred to this elsewhere as pricing in your "inner Veblen".

[PapayaTapper]

(11-20-2017 03:19 PM)Ski pro Wrote:  

Has anyone here had any experience with the business phenomenon where you increase your prices and get more business?

The theory runs that if you are more expensive than everyone else, people perceive what you are offering as of better quality.

I guess your marketing has to be slicker to reflect this perceived extra quality but is there anyone here that this has actually worked for?

Your business needs to the skills and reputation in order to pull this off and his only works for products / services where pricing substitutes for quality awareness. If you can position your company/ product as the "luxury" provider / product it can be a successful strategy.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(11-20-2017 03:19 PM)Ski pro Wrote:  

Has anyone here had any experience with the business phenomenon where you increase your prices and get more business?

The theory runs that if you are more expensive than everyone else, people perceive what you are offering as of better quality.

I guess your marketing has to be slicker to reflect this perceived extra quality but is there anyone here that this has actually worked for?

That's referred to as Veblen or Giffen phenomenon - when demand increases because the price increased.

I briefly explored it here: thread-60642...pid1487399

456 briefly touched on it here: thread-60642...pid1487742

[456]

Thanks for surfacing the links Thomas.

And I'll add my disclaimer that I'm speaking from a niche b2b services perspective where there are vast unconnected ecosystems of Very Similar Work happening at Vastly Different Price Points.

The danger is when the owner/founder is too caught up in their technical depth, at the expense of business value breadth. An easy trap -- I feel I saw others fall in and intentionally swerved to avoid that in my early 20s.

---

There's a lot of great product and more commodified service pricing advice and perspectives from other members. Though as a consumer I know the effect exists.

But there must be a steak beneath the sizzle.

[Ethan.Allan]

(11-18-2017 11:29 PM)qwertyuiop Wrote:  

Are you selling b2b? if the price is that low call up possible clients and charge them 30k and watch them run to buy.

I'm not sure. I mean, this product is opening a totally new market. I have seen a few variations by other companies, but they are more entertainment curiosities than an actual commercial product.

[ColSpanker]

Today, I discover it costs more to have a piece of equipment moved than having it fixed.
How did I come by this wonderful knowledge? It involves some friends who dropped the ball on helping me move a machine and the time frame I needed to find some replacement help.
I'll put it in brief: I've burned through credit having a machine fixed. I burned through credit transporting it. I've burned through credit having it fixed and transported again because the jackasses who ran the machine broke the it a second time.
Now, I've decided to move the machine in-house and do the operation myself. The machine was supposed to be transported two days ago. My crew postponed their help. No problem, when you depend on friends to help you, this can happen.
Last night I learn they are all headed out of town for the Turkey Day. However, the machine still has to be picked up today.
I get on the phone at 8 AM and start calling around. The few places who answer can't make it out to where I do production. Each time I reach someone the price escalates, then they find a reason not to do it (cash only, not bonded and secured, etc.).
At long last, I find a company to move it. They can do this on short notice, but charge and extravagant rate. Thus, burning through most of my remaining credit. All I want them to do is show up and complete the job because if they don't, I am out of business.
Why do I tell this story here?
Because some of you are thinking about going into business for yourself. I did it 12 years ago and I still struggle to survive. I hope my story will let you know that it's not all big bucks and easy money.

[ColSpanker]

All this talk of Veblen makes me curious if anyone every read his books. The man was a master of not saying one sentence where twelve would do fine. I tried reading his book on the "Leisure Class" and it made my brain melt.

[Thomas the Rhymer]

(11-22-2017 09:45 AM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

All this talk of Veblen makes me curious if anyone every read his books. The man was a master of not saying one sentence where twelve would do fine. I tried reading his book on the "Leisure Class" and it made my brain melt.

I thought it was a great book, but it seems he had a weird sense of humour. The whole book is about how people are wasteful and self-indulgent, but the book itself is wasteful and self-indulgent. I can't help but think that he was chuckling all along as he wrote it., enjoying the irony of his book.

It was a very important book that really changed the way I think about the world, but I couldn't stand to read it a second time (which I normally do with books I deem important), it's just too verbose.

The book can be summarised as: People are pyschologically prone to waste, especially waste that can be shown off to their neighbours. A lot of modern 'culture' is merely the systematic application of wastefulness for show. Some people are so happy being wasteful that their demand for products/services will increase as prices rise, because high prices offer a greater opportunity to be wasteful, and this is thus more psychologically gratifying.

[Repo]

(11-21-2017 03:33 AM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(11-20-2017 03:19 PM)Ski pro Wrote:  

Has anyone here had any experience with the business phenomenon where you increase your prices and get more business?

The theory runs that if you are more expensive than everyone else, people perceive what you are offering as of better quality.

I guess your marketing has to be slicker to reflect this perceived extra quality but is there anyone here that this has actually worked for?

That's referred to as Veblen or Giffen phenomenon - when demand increases because the price increased.

I briefly explored it here: thread-60642...pid1487399

456 briefly touched on it here: thread-60642...pid1487742

To add to this, there is a theory that by having a product at a super high price with all the bells and whistles will help the sale of your other still overpriced but more reasonable offers, as people will feel they are getting a deal and help build up the image that they are truly dealing with a premium company. And occasionally you may get a whale who buys your ridiculously overpriced offer because they just want the best and haven't done their market research.

For example, market price for a product is $80.

Have one super premium version with a few extras charged at $400. Then a "best value" deal at $120. And then a bare bones deal at $80. This will lead customers to the $120 deal, and occasionally you will get the $400 sale.