[Balkan]

(04-25-2016 06:58 PM)Valentine Wrote:  

(04-03-2016 06:53 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

The easiest and most universal method would probably be if you look like you lift even with clothes on.

/thread

(04-08-2016 01:01 AM)wilberforceeggmont Wrote:  

Unless your life is about beach game, where abs rule, you're better off putting on a bit more muscle and fat to fill out a t-shirt.

So true. I dropped down to sub-10% as an experiment once - female interest was at an all time low.

Far more interest now I'm ~14% bodyfat because I look so much bigger now with clothes on.

Hmm perhaps you hold bf well. I would say every guy looks better sub-10% vs ~15%. You shouldn't be dropping that much weight if you're efficiently cutting ~5% and girls often magically think you're bigger when you're leaner. Some guys, like my Italian friend from college, have the ability to hold similar levels of facial fat through a high bf range. This is quite rare and his body looks much better sub-10% vs 20% even though his face is near identical. The obvious solution is going through several clean bulks, which will take a few years, then cutting down to sub-10%. I get around a 30-40% uptick in girls checking me out and approached 2x more when I'm sub-10. However, maintaining sub-10% is a pain in the ass, especially if you don't have genetics on your side.

[zatara]

(04-25-2016 09:24 PM)Balkan Wrote:  

Hmm perhaps you hold bf well. I would say every guy looks better sub-10% vs ~15%. You shouldn't be dropping that much weight if you're efficiently cutting ~5% and girls often magically think you're bigger when you're leaner. Some guys, like my Italian friend from college, have the ability to hold similar levels of facial fat through a high bf range. This is quite rare and his body looks much better sub-10% vs 20% even though his face is near identical. The obvious solution is going through several clean bulks, which will take a few years, then cutting down to sub-10%. I get around a 30-40% uptick in girls checking me out and approached 2x more when I'm sub-10. However, maintaining sub-10% is a pain in the ass, especially if you don't have genetics on your side.

Maintaining a bodyfat sub-10% is pretty much impossible if you want to live a normal lifestyle though -drinking alcohol every so often, eating out in restaurants a few times a week etc. 15% on the other hand is perfectly maintainable. Everyone on the internet may claim to be under 10% bodyfat all the time, but in real life I've only ever seen people hit single digits after severe cuts. And only temporarily at that, for competitions or similar.

Bear in mind Valentine was also discussing when wearing a tshirt/clothing, when most people at 15% will definitely look better than someone at 8%. Thats because the 15% bodyfat guy if in good shape will still look muscular but will be a lot physically bigger than the 8% guy. The fat difference won't be particularly obvious through clothing.

(04-25-2016 05:08 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Those "big" pro rugby players are more like 225 to 250.

The only pro rugby players who're north of 220lb tend to either be far taller than 6ft 1 (second row or back row forwards, the odd monster wings like George North as of late) or tend to be the fatties in the front row. Have a look at the players on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_na...rent_squad for example.

Some of the backs are as light as 185LB. These are also professional athletes in a heavy contact sport remember, who've spent years training, not the general public. They're way bigger than average guys.

6ft 1 and 215lb at 15% is noticeably big anywhere outside of the internet and a few select venues in Australia/Miami/SoCal. I hover around 6ft 0 220 @ 15% and I'm usually either the biggest guy in the room or close to it in most countries.

[alexdagr81]

Everything else equal the guy with 10% bodyfat vs. 15% means 5% more muscle meaning added size, (relative) strength, and no gut.

[Strvon]

(12-09-2015 11:46 AM)Austrian Wrote:  

Good question. I think it´s important to separate size from strength. There are some guys who are really strong, but you barely see it and they even look like "DYEL". Those guys don´t care too much about looks and only train for strength. On the other had, there are also some guys who are quite weak in comparison, but have a lower body fat % and are leaner and also have a more "jacked" look.

There is also the difference between a "beach body" guy with quite low body fat and guys who don´t have much definition, but look big in a shirt or clothes in general. The ripped "beach body" guy would look like an average/thin/DYEL guy in comparison, when you put him in clothes.

Hey. So this is my first post on the group.
You make some interesting points. The comparison you are making can also be seen between a body builder and a strong man competitor. I remember watching a challenge that was given to both men who had to complete various strength exercises. The body builder had a fast start but faded a bit early. The Strong man competitor dominated at the end.
This seemed to be the common trend when many of the same tests were done.

[Atlanta Man]

I am 6'5 and 257 pounds I am leaner than I was two years ago at 265 pounds and you can see it , especially in my face. My personal opinion from the reactions I get from girls is that women prefer the lean face.

[heavy]

Pointless yet entertaining conversation. I pulled my thoughts, via others' quotes.

(04-03-2016 06:53 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

The easiest and most universal method would probably be if you look like you lift even with clothes on.

(04-25-2016 03:01 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

...
I'm thinking that for the most part, "jacked" refers to guys who are not "natty".
...

(04-06-2016 01:21 PM)mikeymike Wrote:  

Lee was ripped not jacked
...
Pitt was on the cusp, just a bit light but enough guys wanted that physique that I think you have to consider it jacked.

(04-07-2016 01:23 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

...
Jacked is all about mass.
...

I say it's pointless because as a man, your goal should not be to be jacked or ripped or huge or skinny or anything. You might not be able to. I know many guys (even at my gym) who could never get ripped. They simply don't have the body type, and they work their asses off. That doesn't mean they're wasting their time. They look like they lift, and they have muscle. It's just a little more hidden.

And I'll never be 6'. Or better yet, I'll never play in the NBA. I could work my ass off 24x7 and I would never make it. But that doesn't mean that hard work wouldn't pay off in other ways, or certain pay huge dividends in my psyche.

A man should lift weights to feel better and look better. However repulsed women are by your body now, they'll be less repulsed if you lift. However much women are checking you out now, they'll check you out more if you lift. When she touches your arm or feels your shoulder, she's gathering information. Lifting changed my world in regards to girls. Whether you go from normal to ripped or fat to normal, women will notice. They'll notice you lift and have muscle, even if you aren't ripped.

Short answer: Cut, Ripped, Jacked from least to most mass (generally BF% as well).