[Mess O.]

This dynamic new thread really has me thinkin'.

[churros]

(03-02-2016 07:43 PM)Suits Wrote:  

They have to meet their other friend who "really needs their help right now and they promised."

THIS

[Schlep]

@ suits

That was some deep shit. Droppin some knowledge. The things we do and go through just to get some tail.

I'm starting to get to the point in my life where dating at home in the states has nothing to offer me. Rather go on nice vacations and meet feminine women and see and do cool things at the same time.

[Lex S.]

This is a HUGE red flag for me. There's a saying that goes "Only women understand other women and they hate each other". If a girl doesn't have any female friends then that means she's probably such an utter cunt that she can't even keep bitchy girls around. You'll also notice these girls tend to be hot - The only reason guys can tolerate her assumed shitty behavior is because of her looks. Why else would guys get strung along as orbiters if they weren't trying to hit it? If she was ugly then she'd be forever alone. These girls also tend to be "one of the guys", meaning they adopt masculine traits to try and fit in that can be really unattractive.

I hooked up with a girl like this recently and it was just not good. I knew she had lots of male friends and it didn't bother me.....Until she went through her text messages in front of me to find a text I had sent her not 3 hours before. Scrolling through her inbox there must've been easily 10-15 guys who texted her between the time of my last text to her and then. I don't know if these were orbiters or guys she was fucking, but I'd imagine it wouldn't have stopped if we became exclusive. Can you imagine your girlfriend getting texts from 10 guys in the span of one Saturday night while you're out with her? Or having "Boys night out" while you're stuck at the office late?

[BetaNoMore]

(03-02-2016 02:02 PM)Vincent Chase Wrote:  

(03-02-2016 01:34 AM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  

Dated a girl with a few close guy "friends." She may try to downplay it because you let them know you're not okay with it but it's not worth it. At some point, the issue will come up and cause you unnecessary stress and grief. It's not about "maintaining frame" or engaging in some sort of gamesmanship to induce dread. Relationships are difficult enough as it is and I'd rather not have to worry about this and the stupid orbiters that chisel away at your relationship. The fact that she keeps them around says a lot about her too.

If she has a lot of guy friends and especially if she still hangs out with them 1:1 when you're dating (even if it's once every few weeks), NEXT and don't look back.

I went out with a girl like that. You could see how deplorable women can be first hand. I was away in another city for a week and she told me she was going to lunch with a "friend" from class. She told me there's nothing wrong with it and is not interested in him, he was helping her out with her assignments. A perfect time to warp her reality completely "I don't want you to but it's up to you we're just friends anyway" <change topic> then talk later about how some other girl that she knows from class and is pretty attractive is coming later here to just "drop off a suitcase... no we're not doing anything she's just a friend".

She told me when I got back there and was living with her at the time how that guy was inviting her to his place, "isn't that weird?". "Not really he's your sad orbiter you've been playing along he wants to fuck you". She told me he's ugly. She clearly kept him and a few other guys on the side just in case.

Women can keep guys in their grip passively it's so fucking easy. A bit like a manager telling his employee of this virtual carrot at work, "if you do this you'll get a bonus or you could set up your own team that does this and this". Women play it far more subtly.

Nice guys are absolute fucking morons. Even for one bang I wouldn't orbit anyone. She would need to offer some value to my life. I value friendship, but friendship goes both ways.

See, I'd rather not have to deal with that crap. Next girl I date, if she has ANY close guy friends, she's NEXTED and with prejudice.

When things become more transparent, they merely shift the goal posts. It went from "if any of them showed interest, I'd definitely start distancing myself" to "it doesn't matter that he likes me because I don't like him!"

These "sneaker fuckers" beta orbiters are pathetic. The girl I talked about earlier, while I was dating her, had one of her close guy "friends" post a pic of them in the past in an intimate pose with some pathetic attempts at negging and saying how he misses his friend. I'd prefer my LTRs not have these scumbags undermine me in an insidious manner. You're damned if you do, damned if you don't. You put your foot down, you come off as "jealous" and it doesn't work anyways because no one likes ultimatums. If you don't respond, you might as well hand your balls to her because you're letting her and her beta orbiter disrespect you.

Guys, just NEXT or at least don't get seriously involved with these chicks. Sad thing is, these chicks seem more and more prevalent nowadays in our society.

And here's the "sneaker fucker" explanation on the Joe Rogan podcast (2hr, 29 min, 5 sec mark):

[Lex S.]

As far as personal experience, I dated a girl like this in college.....Well, I was a beta orbiter first, then somehow I got out of the friendzone and began dating her and fucking her. I got insanely jealous because she only hung out with guys. And sure enough, when she was done with me she began dating another orbiter.

The thing is myself and her other orbiters played nice when we were together, but the truth of the matter was we fucking hated one another. All of us were in love with this girl and the other guys were just competition. I didn't realize the brunt of this until I began dating her and then all my "friends" in this group began talking shit about me to her or trying to sabotage things to cockblock me. So even if the girl's not a problem then you can encounter heavy resistance from her army of hopeful suitors. It was too much of a headache for me, and now I rejoice when I find out a girl has lots and lots of female friends. It's healthier that way.

[BetaNoMore]

(03-02-2016 11:03 PM)Lex S. Wrote:  

This is a HUGE red flag for me. There's a saying that goes "Only women understand other women and they hate each other". If a girl doesn't have any female friends then that means she's probably such an utter cunt that she can't even keep bitchy girls around. You'll also notice these girls tend to be hot - The only reason guys can tolerate her assumed shitty behavior is because of her looks. Why else would guys get strung along as orbiters if they weren't trying to hit it? If she was ugly then she'd be forever alone. These girls also tend to be "one of the guys", meaning they adopt masculine traits to try and fit in that can be really unattractive.

I hooked up with a girl like this recently and it was just not good. I knew she had lots of male friends and it didn't bother me.....Until she went through her text messages in front of me to find a text I had sent her not 3 hours before. Scrolling through her inbox there must've been easily 10-15 guys who texted her between the time of my last text to her and then. I don't know if these were orbiters or guys she was fucking, but I'd imagine it wouldn't have stopped if we became exclusive. Can you imagine your girlfriend getting texts from 10 guys in the span of one Saturday night while you're out with her? Or having "Boys night out" while you're stuck at the office late?

It doesn't stop. People don't engage in some sort of behaviour that hits the reward circuits for a long time and then quit cold turkey. People seem to have the idea that you can undo ingrained patterns (that you do while single) when you're of a sudden in a relationship. "Oh when I'm in a relationship, I don't sleep around even though I've slept around a ton in the past." That's like coke fiend saying he can easily stop doing coke because he now has a gf and she wants him to stop. The best predictor of behaviour is past behaviour. Screen diligently and with much prejudice.

She may stop for a while when she's trying to lock you down, but once that's complete, the she'll start responding to the sneaker fuckers again. Just NEXT NEXT NEXT and don't look back.

[trainwreck]

Much of what has been said here seems to tick the box of this last one. Just broke up with BF 2 months ago, has a highly successful (and I assume) absentee father. Looks like she's just massing up guys to keep her self esteem up.

Haven't talked to her since the whole "i'm not easy" thing on the 2nd date. Waste of time.

[OregonToSoCal]

(03-02-2016 07:43 PM)Suits Wrote:  

and if you meet for dinner, they absolutely don't have time to come back to your place after. They have to meet their other friend who "really needs their help right now and they promised."

+1 and repped. I had a situation similar to this happen about two weeks ago. 37 year old Asian girl who always talked about her guy friends and how they're her "wingmen" when they go out. I went out three times with her and on the second date she came back to my place. When we started making out and my hand went up the side of her leg she freaked out and practically ran out of my apartment. I figured she was a dead end so I never contacted her again. Then on Valentine's day I get a really friendly text from her so I figure what the hell I'll ask her out again.

We meet at a wine bar 2 minutes from my place and she seems to be receptive to my game. I invite her back to my place for a drink and she answers with "hmm what time is it? I have work early in the morning." I reply with "nah it's early, one drink" and she doesn't reply but her silence implies that she's going along with me. When we get to the parking lot I head to my car and she just stands there looking at me confused. I look at her and ask "what, you coming?" and she gives me a bewildered look saying she can't because she has to get up early. I smirk and say whatever and tell her goodnight. Number deleted.

[Mess O.]

^^ Remember the next-door chick you (correctly) advised me on earlier? Shit, that's what this thread is ALL about. So close, and yet so not. All the more reason to always be lining up multiple prospects, as I was all along. Given my greenness, the whole ordeal has me so rattled. I can only wonder how long this gal is gonna be right there, like a fuckin' neon sign reminder.

[birthday cat]

I agree with a lot of what is written in this thread but I don't think things are so black and white. In my opinion some guys are over-simplifying things or maybe they are interpreting this subject as "attention whores with a lot of orbiters" instead of "girls with a lot of guyfriends".

If a girl has a lot of guy friends then there are a few questions I need to ask myself.
Question 1) What is kind of relationship does she have with these guy friends? There is a huge difference between orbiters that she hangs out with 1-on-1 and guys from a larger social group that she hangs out with in mixed groups.
Question 2) What do I want from the girl? If I'm only interested in banging then the guy friends could be less of a problem.
Question 3) How much effort will I have to make to get what I want from the girl?

Example 1: A 32 year old girl with orbiter friends who spend money on her when they hang out 1 on 1. Obviously I would NEXT this girl immediately for anything other than an immediate bang.

Example 2: A 22 year old girl with guy friends from work or school that she hangs out with in mixed groups. I wouldn't have a problem with this. I know some of the guys have already banged or are trying to bang. I still think the solution is having game, not NEXTing.

(03-02-2016 07:43 PM)Suits Wrote:  

My personal theory on these girls is that they are really bad at being friends with other females. They have something wrong with them which causes their female-female relationships to fall apart quickly, so they depend on men for company instead.

I think this is correct a lot of the time but not all the time. I also think hot girls and slutty girls have difficulty making female friends because other females view them as competition more than friends. I also think intelligent girls may choose guy friends because they realize other females are too much drama and don't make good friends.

I consider guy friends to be a red flag but I haven't met a girl without any red flags yet. In my experience hot girls, slutty girls, and especially hot slutty girls often have a lot of guy friends. I may not want a serious relationship with those girls but I'm not NEXTing them. The better approach is to have game and make sure the girl knows you are very different from her platonic friends.

[churros]

(03-03-2016 12:55 PM)Mess O. Wrote:  

So close, and yet so not.

That just about sums it up.

[456]

Simply cannot stop reading this thread title as Guys with a lot of girlfriends a waste of time? when I scan recently updated threads the past few days. Probably true, so I chuckle.

May as well chime in -- absolutely agree that hot and/or slutty girls are perceived as competition or written off as "probably vapid and bitchy" by other girls who aren't super-secure or in the same looks league. If she is also intelligent and gravitates towards nerdier girls for friendship, all bets may be off. Not an enviable situation! Just because sex becomes easy doesn't erase the loneliness of having fewer friends.

So I see this side of things, having slept with and observed these types (especially when you add smarts to the mix).

Doesn't make it any less of a red flag though if you are grooming for a relationship, and she isn't pro-actively cockblocking all her orbiters. Otherwise she will be in that ambiguous zone because that allows her the most benefits and least discomfort. Add alcohol to the mix, and it's a larger red flag.

As to Game being the solution -- sure, but not if it's an uphill battle. I've had to cut girls off where I wasn't going to fascist away their friends, and she refused to see it my way, and while my game was strong enough and I believe they were faithful, the endeavor was not worth it and it was too late to view her as "just a fuck". I can train girls to some extent, but I prefer girls who barely need any training, for anything more than casual.

[birthday cat]

^ I agree. I should have said that sometimes game is the solution and sometimes NEXTing is the solution. It isn't black and white is the main point. We can talk about NEXTing these girls all we want on the Internet but in real life very few guys are going to NEXT an 8 with orbiters.

(03-03-2016 04:24 PM)456 Wrote:  

Doesn't make it any less of a red flag though if you are grooming for a relationship.

I couldn't agree more. In some cases it could an even be a bigger red flag. If the girl is hot and has a lot of guy friends then your game better be rock solid or you are taking a huge risk by investing in that relationship. Been there, done that, failed, but it was a learning experience.