[XPQ22]

Met up with an online girl for what I hoped would be round 2 last evening. Everything went according to plan the first night out and got the lay. She sent me enthusiastic texts making sure I got home OK and that she had a great time.

Second night out goes really well and we're back at her place. But, she's not having any of it this time. Once we're in her room, all she wants to do is snuggle and talk and resists all attempts at escalation with various excuses. Doesn't even want to touch my dick at all. Now she wants to take things slow.

I understand that women sometimes don't want to throw down for various reasons, but when I said something like "Hmm. Things feel a little different than the last time" she said "Yeah, well the reason is I felt sort of bad about that..."

Phrases like that really make one sit up and take notice. I'm still new at this, and buyer's remorse is one of my nightmares.

Also, she took some medication while I was with her at her place that she had in a drawer. I couldn't get a look at the labels, but from a distance my guess is that it may have been an anti-anxiety/antidepressant drug of some type.

My gut is telling me to eject from this situation in a way that it hasn't before with the other girls. I'm still new, maybe I shouldn't always trust it. But it's definitely telling me to eject.

A shit decision to have to make, because otherwise we get along well and she's the most attractive girl I've met up with so far. But who's to say that she might not pull this "I feel sort of bad.." shit again and again. Risky.

I'm pretty sure she knows she's a hot piece and is now trying to control the frame and manipulate me into a LTR by coming on strong and then pulling back (I need to know you better that's not really the type of person I am). I don't like it.

Thoughts?

[CPG]

My read is she wants to turn back the clock and lock you in for a relationship. It may or may not have anything to do with your behavior--if you came on more assertive and aggressive before hooking up and then went soft after that and got chatty over text that might have given her the boyfriend vibe, or she may simply have decided you're a good prospect for it regardless of your actions and she's trying to get you committed.

I don't think it's so much buyer's remorse as her wanting to take control of the relationship. Either way, if your goal is to get an FB or plate out of this you're fighting an uphill battle. Combine that with your gut feel already going negative and I'd listen to it, experienced or not that warning voice will rarely lead you astray. Danger instincts are a hard-wired part of our brain for a reason, the unconscious draws on cues and signs we otherwise overlook.

[XPQ22]

Thanks for confirming what I sort of already knew. Yeah, she's trying to grab the power in the relationship. I've sunk a decent amount of time into this one, and she's hoping that I'm thirsty enough that I'm going to keep throwing good money after bad.

But she's picked the wrong one. I think a good player knows when to cut his losses. Add to that the possible emotional issues, and I don't think this is worth it.

Sometimes girls want to take it a little slow, and that can be okay. But ramping it up quickly and then ramping it down is a hard-sell manipulation tactic IMO, like when they give you the 30 day "free" trial but are then going to keep billing your credit card anyway. There needs to be consistency or she's fucking with you.

And you just know that whether currently or recently, she's been hooking up with other dudes and not giving them this BS. Sometimes I get the sense that some girls turn to online to try to play the "I'm a good girl looking for a relationship" game with dudes who aren't in their social circle, because everyone who is knows...well...you know.

Run that game on someone else.

[JayJuanGee]

Well, each of us differ in our style, what kinds of bullshit from chicks we are willing to tolerate and how we play the various shit tests.

Sometimes, like you said, it may be a good play to just move on; however, I personally think the better play in the situation that you described may be to allow the situation to play out a bit more and to experiment with this chick.

You said that you do not have a lot of experience in these kinds of situations, yet that you are interested in continuing to play around with her, and you would like to get another bang or more out of her without the situation evolving into a LTR….

Hell, in my thinking, you are no where near any LTR status after one bang and maybe even if you were to experience a month or two of regular banging with a chick.

You are the one in the position to know what the girl said to you and her various behaviors, but I would not necessarily assume a variety of bad motives from her or even that she necessarily wants or needs a LTR from you in order to proceed with banging you. Yeah, she may have said this that or another, but what she says and what she does are frequently quite separate things. To me, it doesn’t mean that you completely disregard what she says, but instead take what she says with a big ass grain of salt.



Sure, she may be shit testing you or attempting to bargain a better situation from you; however, the fact that you are psychologically already prepared to walk away from this whole situation puts you in a very strong bargaining position and you do not have to put up with a whole hell of a lot of her framings of the relationship.

Actually, I see nothing wrong with her attempting to negotiate or frame your relationship or to give you a variety of shit tests. That is frequently what girls do, especially girls who are not total bimbos.

The question just becomes how you play the various shit tests that she gives in order to either cause her to come to your frame or for you to just walk away (without you burning bridges with her, unnecessarily).

So, for example, the second night when you are hanging out with her, surely you pushed the situation and attempted to push the situation to attempt to escalate and you even listened to her various claims and non-verbals quite a bit, but her mood had obviously changed (or maybe she needed a bit of alcohol).

Nonetheless, you seemed to have given it a decent try, and after a certain point in that attempt, you may consider making some statements to her to allow her to understand that you are only going to put up with so much of her bullshit (without necessarily being mean to her or calling her behavior “bullshit”). You are in a decent situation because you have already gotten the bang, but still frequently, you do have to attempt to be figure out the tone of language that you can use with any chick, and most girls, even in the beginning don’t appreciate being completely called bullshit, or for you to unnecessarily become hostile over her mere attempts to renegotiate.


Anyhow, at the point that you are concluding your attempts to escalate, you could say something like.

“I had a good time tonight – even though I expected a bit more physical intimacy. Apparently, you have things to work out for yourself… or maybe you are just not in the mood tonight. Possibly, we could consider another date in the future, which certainly is not any kind of guarantee, but right now it seems that each of us may need a bit more space to consider what we want.”

In the above, you are walking away and blaming her, but describing the situation in a way that gives her an opportunity to reconsider her behavior.

Then you leave, and decide later whether you will contact her in a week or two or if she may have worked out her issues. If she does not seem to have worked out her issues, and does not seem to be willing to escalate or to come around to your frame, then you may decide at that point to move on.


When you move away, sometimes the girl will make further attempts at bargaining and sometimes she will come around and sometimes she will just move on to other relationships. You personally would be working your options to in order that you are not stuck in any kind of oneitis thinking.. so in some sense maybe conducting yourself as if you have moved on, even though you may be willing to bang her again, if she comes around to your frame.

If she has already banged you, she is likely more than willing and inclined to bang you again, and sometimes you just need to mix up the atmosphere a bit and even to impose various limits on what you are going to tolerate, and if she doesn’t sufficiently move in your direction, then nexting her is not a bad option.

But yeah, ultimately it is up to you, and possibly, you may have already nexted her, but I reiterate that the fact that since you say that you are ready, willing and able to next her and the fact t that you have banged her already puts you in a real great bargaining position (to set terms).

[XPQ22]

(02-13-2016 03:35 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

But yeah, ultimately it is up to you, and possibly, you may have already nexted her, but I reiterate that the fact that since you say that you are ready, willing and able to next her and the fact t that you have banged her already puts you in a real great bargaining position (to set terms).

Thanks a lot for the input. I did decide to next this one, and I based my decision on a combination of factors. If it had just been the resistance on the second meet, I probably would have been OK with that and left the door open and tried again at another time.

But the fact that she said she regretted the first time around made me wary. And watching her pop some unknown meds from a drawer full of pills, even more wary. And some of the things that she said about her previous relationships and her relationships with her coworkers, even warier still. She came off as sort of a "high conflict" person, possibly with mental health issues to boot.

To put it bluntly, she was giving me a bit of a borderline personality disorder vibe.

Any one red flag and I might have let it play out, because if you never banged any girl with a single red flag you'd probably never get laid. But taken together it all added up to a bad overall picture. And I have options.

Edit: and I've started to notice a pattern among the behavior of mentally messed up girls. They'll come on quick and talk a big talk about sex and what they're into. When you're out at the bar, they might whisper in your ear how they're able to squirt, or love anal. Even sometimes on a first date. But when you get them in private: often massive resistance and "I'm not that type of girl and doing stuff makes me feel slutty and I need to know you better." This is manipulation, pure and simple. And every girl I've met who did that was mentally not well.

I think the problem might be she's trying to have it both ways - she's afraid that if she keeps putting out easy sex the guy is going to bail on her, so she wants to take it a bit slow, but thinks that if she doesn't throw out a sample and come on sexual and gives the "hug close" for the first four dates he's going to next her.

But giving the guy a wink and inviting him to your place, into your bedroom, into your bed, and then at the very last second saying "oh by the way I don't want you to be sexual or do anything, thanks" is like the engineer trying to slam on the train's brakes 100 feet before the station. It doesn't bode well for sanity.

[JayJuanGee]

(02-13-2016 04:40 PM)XPQ22 Wrote:  

(02-13-2016 03:35 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

But yeah, ultimately it is up to you, and possibly, you may have already nexted her, but I reiterate that the fact that since you say that you are ready, willing and able to next her and the fact t that you have banged her already puts you in a real great bargaining position (to set terms).

Thanks a lot for the input. I did decide to next this one, and I based my decision on a combination of factors. If it had just been the resistance on the second meet, I probably would have been OK with that and left the door open and tried again at another time.

But the fact that she said she regretted the first time around made me wary. And watching her pop some unknown meds from a drawer full of pills, even more wary. And some of the things that she said about her previous relationships and her relationships with her coworkers, even warier still. She came off as sort of a "high conflict" person, possibly with mental health issues to boot.

To put it bluntly, she was giving me a bit of a borderline personality disorder vibe.

Any one red flag and I might have let it play out, because if you never banged any girl with a single red flag you'd probably never get laid. But taken together it all added up to a bad overall picture. And I have options.

Yes, those are definitely important additional/highlighted details to consider.

I have banged several chicks that were a bit crazy, and sometimes, I even kept the relationship going for a little while.

In the beginning, when I was younger, I believe I had a higher tolerance for craziness, but at some point, I figured out for my own tolerance level, that there was a sort of sliding scale of some of the factors (maybe similar to the various factors that you were weighing accounting for) that for example, if she was fairly young and hot, then I would be more willing to bang and even to experiment a bit (maybe ensuring that she did not know where i lived); however, the older was the crazy chick was then the more likely there was going to be even higher level of lingering psychotic baggage and persistent personal life baggage that the chick has not resolved for herself through the years.

Like you suggested, too, there may be some things that she says that will qualify her as "too far gone," and fairly forceful assertions of regret regarding the earlier physical intimacy would likely be one of those that is showing that she is too far gone, at least in terms of your relationship with her.

A few years ago, fairly early in our relationship (maybe after a few bangs), I had a girl threaten me that she was going to withhold sex if I didn't do x, y or z. I cannot remember exactly what it was that I was supposed to do, and it was not the first time such a threat had happened in my relationships. And, in that situation, I pretty much put my foot down and told her that i would not entertain any of those kinds of attempts at conditioning of sex.

In that situation, the girl did come around, and a couple of occasions later she would joke about her earlier threats, but each time, I would let her know that withholding sex was not really an option that she had to continue in our relationship. Later we moved on for different reasons, but the experience taught me that I was not going to tolerate any chicks who attempted to blackmail me with threats of withholding sex (even though some chicks may have kind of gotten used to that kind of a way of interacting with guys).