[duedue]

My sleep is very shallow. I don't really wake up; I find myself thinking in bed when it's still dark. Feel miserably tired all day. Have been like this for more than a year. It started when I stopped taking an SSRI a year and a half ago. It wasn't cold turkey though. It's been a few days that I stopped drinking coffee and have restricted tea to the morning. But no difference. I eat a lot of 85% dark chocolate every day and can't live without it. About 20 grams a day but before 4 pm.

I have a 9-5 desk job and a car and this doesn't help of course. I have a spin bike at home but I feel so tired that I don't even use that. Just go for a hike at weekends.

[Horus]

The cure to your problem is here.

Bright light therapy

Read the thread, buy the device and join the RVF members whose sleep and general health has been improved through bright light therapy.

[evilhei]

One happy bright light user right here. I had similar issues for like 6 months before I got the light. Sleeping very lightly, waking up, feeling tired all day, couldn't focus at work etc. It went away after I got the light and used it every day. So definetally worth of giving it a shot and seeing it it works for you or not.

[Ringo]

I used to have insomnia in high school. Now I sleep like a baby within 5 minutes of laying down - the difference is the amount of exercise I'm doing.

I'm not saying this is the only factor, but it will definitely impact your sleep. You said it yourself:

(02-05-2016 07:47 AM)duedue Wrote:  

I have a 9-5 desk job and a car and this doesn't help of course. I have a spin bike at home but I feel so tired that I don't even use that. Just go for a hike at weekends.

Imagine if you worked construction 10h/day. Can you see yourself laying down then and not being able to sleep? You'd probably crash before you even hit the bed.

Get more physical and your body will demand the rest.

My 2¢.

[MiscBrah]

Try the Bright Light Therapy

Also try epsom salt baths before bed

Some of your problems may be related to magnesium deficiency. Epsom salt baths will fix this in addition to being quite relaxing.

[greekgod]

Do you have any electronic devices in your bedroom? How messy is it? What's your nightime routine?

[Steve H]

I cut back on caffeine and now supplement with theanine before bed. I now sleep through the night (most nights) and feel rested in the morning.

http://www.vitacost.com/vitacost-l-thean...ta=theanin

[Dusty]

Try this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Say-Good-Night-Ins...0805089586

[duedue]

OK will try bright light therapy. Actually ordered Natural Calm magnesium yesterday. Should get it soon. A sign that I may have magnesium deficiency is that I'm sensitive to loud noises.

[philosophical_recovery]

Also try ZMA, which is a blend of Zinc, Magnesium, and B6.

I pop 2 large pills and it knocks me out in about 30 minutes.

[Ibagemyoutagem]

This thread couldn't have come at a better time. just bought the book and the light box. I cant even afford it but I absolutely hate not being able to have some control over my sleep.

[eatthishomie]

Melatonin supplementation might help in the short term with establishing circadian rhythms. Don't use it for too long or its effectiveness will wear off.

If you are supplementing with creatine, make sure you're drinking enough water.

Taking theanine before bed helps as has been stated.

Listening to theta binaural beats and meditating before bed helps too.

Also, turn all screens off an hour before bed. Install f.lux on your computer if you need to use it before bed, it's an app that restricts blue light after a certain time. If you have an iPhone, the upcoming iOS9 update has a feature that limits blue lights on iPhones after a certain time.

[UnW]

I am having the same issue, using Binaural beats of late and have noticed a deeper sleep although for not as long as I want.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_q...ural+beats

[muscless]

It's the food you are eating bro, if you start eating real food, fruit and vegetables, wholemeal, meat and exercise daily you won't have a problem. 90% of health problems can be resolving with eating REAL food. Don't buy anything in a packet, it has bullshit chemicals in it that fucks with your body and mind. I would highly recommend you watch

I had problems with insomnia for 30 years of my life until I made the change to real food and can sleep fine 80-90% of the time now. Here is some other things that help me!

* If your insomnia gets bad, meditate for 30 minutes a day where the best time is 30 minutes before bed. Make sure you don't look at your phone or use the TV (allot of light will keep you up), 2 hours before bed.
* No coffee or chocolate after 12pm, it will keep you up. If you can, remove any kind of caffeine from you body cause it's not good for you and it does fuck with your mind (abusing fight/flight = anxiety/insomnia).
* Last meal 3 hours before bed (light meal with little carbs).
* No drinking alcohol or smoking after 5pm (best to quit if you want your insomnia gone for good, i did where it wasn't easy)
* Dim all your lights 2 hours before bed and meditate 1 hour before bed (in the dark works better I've found)
* If you need to use your phone, downloading a dimming light program and turn it on 2 hours before bed.
* Wake up the same time everyday and try to go to bed at the same time every night. The best time is before 10pm cause at 11pm your stress hormones will kick in and will keep you up for most of the night. Your body should be asleep when the sun goes down so I find best time is 9-10pm for me where I wake up at 7am.
* Drinks 2 litres of water a day
* Stretch your muscles 30-60 minutes before bed
* Take a good multivitamin and fish oil (great for the brain)
* Meditation is the only nature way I have found to calm the mind.
* Avoid stress if possible
* Avoid vigorous exercise 4 hours before bed
* If your body clock is fucked, buy Melatonin to reset it

[duedue]

Do you suggest a light therapy box? The one Lizard suggested in his post is expensive for my taste ($180).

[evilhei]

I got myself 70 dollar box and it works also. Check it has atleast 10k lumens.

[duedue]

What's the brand/model?

[Fisherman]

Any one that's 10k lumen.

[evilhei]

I have this brand - Beurer. This exact model and its working fine for me. https://www.beurer.com/web/en/products/g...ight/TL-30

[Lagavulin]

Read the bright light therapy thread and look for one that matches the recommended spec.

I got a Lumie Arabica on eBay for £20.

[highcardace]

I also have insomnia and general sleeping problems. I improved my sleep with some supplementations:

Take ZMA (Zinc Monomethionine Aspartate, Magnesium Aspartate and Vitamin B6). The magnesium will help you sleep better while the Zinc will boost your testosterone levels.

Valerian - this helped me to slow down my heart rate in general when sleeping, also made me fall asleep faster.

L-Theanine (upwards of 200mg) - Research has shown that over 200mg of L-Theanine causes drowsiness and is good for insomnia. I fall asleep faster with about 500mg of L-Theanine.

These supplements are non habit forming, completely natural and in a lot of ways very good for me. They are very easy to find and very cheap. Hope this helps

[rafal]

I was struggling with insomnia for months, nothing out of the common wisdom worked - supplements, light therapy, exercise, etc.

Went to the doctor and he prescribed me low dose Trazodone (http://www.insomnia.net/medications/trazodone/ ). After one week I started sleeping like a baby with no side effects.

The problem with insomnia is that you associate negative emotions with sleeping, bed, etc. additionally sleep deprivation induces negative thoughts and stress. It's negative feedback loop from there.
The trick is to reset the association by having several nights of normal sleep and this is where Trazodone helps.

[Ringo]

(03-04-2016 09:10 AM)rafal Wrote:  

The problem with insomnia is that you associate negative emotions with sleeping, bed, etc. additionally sleep deprivation induces negative thoughts and stress. It's negative feedback loop from there.

Agreed. The more you lay down in bed trying to sleep and failing, the more stressed you become and sleep becomes a "chore", something to be dreaded.

Something that really helped me was to avoid "connecting" stress with my bed and bedroom.

After having tried to sleep for 20 minutes without success, instead of rolling around in my bed sheets for another hour I would just get up and do chores around the house, read a book, listen to a podcast or music, etc, in the kitchen or living room.

Since you can't sleep, make the time useful. And then in 30 or 60 minutes (or whenever you get sleepy) try again.

Another tip is, if your routine allows, to start waking up extra early. This will screw up your biological clock for a few days, but afterwards by the end of the day you'll likely be exhausted and have an easier time falling asleep.

[robreke]

(02-05-2016 07:47 AM)duedue Wrote:  

My sleep is very shallow. I don't really wake up; I find myself thinking in bed when it's still dark. Feel miserably tired all day. Have been like this for more than a year. It started when I stopped taking an SSRI a year and a half ago. It wasn't cold turkey though. It's been a few days that I stopped drinking coffee and have restricted tea to the morning. But no difference. I eat a lot of 85% dark chocolate every day and can't live without it. About 20 grams a day but before 4 pm.

I have a 9-5 desk job and a car and this doesn't help of course. I have a spin bike at home but I feel so tired that I don't even use that. Just go for a hike at weekends.

It is likely due to an overactive response in your sympathetic/parasympathetic system ( fight or flight)

You need to balance it out so that calms down.

Two great and all natural products that helped me sleep like a baby when I was going through a time of insomnia;

Organically bound minerals from Standard Process. you can read the reviews on Amazon to see how good it is.

Also, calcium lactate from standard process.

These calm down and balance out your fight or flight system. At one time, I was on nearly 10 organically bound minerals a night before bed. Overtime, it weaned down to where I don't need to use them anymore.

I highly recommend using them in conjunction with someone trained in nutrition response testing. That way, you will be certain whether your body needs them or not and what dosages are appropriate.

[duedue]

It's been about a month that I've been doing bright light therapy in addition to taking spirulina and dessicated liver (by Universal). The latter two are for my anemia and they've actually been helpful. My energy levels are a little bit better but my sleep is still not so good and I keep waking up at ungodly hours without being able to go back to sleep. Quite often it's because my room gets cold (blame old shabby windows) but sometimes without any apparent reason (this is a symptom of depression and anxiety).

The decision between trying to get back to sleep and getting up, in the above situation, is a tough one for me. On one hand it seems staying in bed even awake helps my body to get a little rest but on the other hand staying awake in bed for hours does exactly "associate negative emotions with sleeping, bed".

I agree with robreke about the flight or fight response. Something closely related is that I don't talk that much to others [I may be banned for saying this!] and so my mind works like an echo chamber. This is bad both for my sleep and my work (which requires intense concentration). I've read the chapter on mindfullness in Gorilla Mindset and need more "mental discipline".

I'll try the supplements robreke suggested but I definitely need to get more physical activity; just don't know how to accommodate it into my 9-5 routine (read: lazy). My boss is an alpha male and he doesn't believe in supplements. He suggested working out.