[Kwisatz]

I just lost a friend in a situation that I wanted to share with you. I think that this is an unavoidable situation, but perhaps, like death and taxes, I can help you get ready for the inevitable.

I man I know and was part of my social circle started dating a woman. A cute, regional celebrity. Six months in he just discovered that she spent a summer with me. Knowing that she dated men before him wasn't the issue. What was a big problem was that after he became very, very serious about her and their future he had to constantly reconcile the things he had to do to earn her that he knew I simply didn't.

He has seen with his own eyes that any woman who spends any time with me has to give me a 100% all-access pass to he mind and body. Without exception. I think that after six months there are still barriers she won't let him cross that he has to deal with. Barriers that I would have either not have had thrown in my face, or just left when confronted with.

Now he is resentful to me, and, even more, resentful towards the woman he is in love with.

He and I aren't close, but we are men that enjoy hanging out together and we respect each other. The problem that we have is that he is 50/50 on believing in the Red Pill. He saw the way I treat women and can't reconcile it with how well they treat me.

If you have friends that see how you deal with women and are enthralled/repulsed by it, they may end up in a similar situation. There is no viable solution that I can see.

I have never held that I am the only man able to have sex with beautiful women, or even the same beautiful woman that other men I know have. I do, however, maintain that I will work far less for the same mental, physical, and sexual privileges.

Shout-Out to WestIndianArchie for his post The Power of Game because it prompted me to post this.

[blck]

Delete

[262]

Alpha fucks beta bucks in action

[General Stalin]

This goes along with the whole women-are-like-children theory and frame control.

Women will get away with as much as you will let them get away with. This is with consideration to your value, but your frame and value are related as well. If you set the score early on then she knows what you will and will not stand for and its up to her to play by your rules or not. As long as you are willing to walk away if she doesn't comply then you're controlling the frame. Sounds like your friend is not.

[WestIndianArchie]

Rather than state what has been restated time and time again

After you start off on the wrong foot, how does a player "right the ship"?

That's a discussion worth having.

I have a feeling that game might be involved.

WIA

[Kwisatz]

That's the big issue. I have yet to find or even hear about a way to "right the ship" that is observable, measurable, and repeatable.

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Rather than state what has been restated time and time again

After you start off on the wrong foot, how does a player "right the ship"?

That's a discussion worth having.

I have a feeling that game might be involved.

WIA

[1026]

It would seem that Frame is like Time.

Once lost, it can never be regained.

[General Stalin]

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Rather than state what has been restated time and time again

After you start off on the wrong foot, how does a player "right the ship"?

That's a discussion worth having.

I have a feeling that game might be involved.

WIA

I'm in the school of thought that it's easy to spoil the fruit.

I suppose with proper game you maybe allowed a mulligan, but generally if you let shit slide then it becomes gospel quick. Women will certainly take advantage of holes in your frame once they are discovered.

I'd say getting off the ship is the easiest option, but quitting isn't exactly a player's favored option. Frame re-gain isn't exactly my prowess so I'd be interested to see what more experienced players have to say about it.

[Ensam]

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Rather than state what has been restated time and time again

After you start off on the wrong foot, how does a player "right the ship"?

That's a discussion worth having.

I have a feeling that game might be involved.

WIA

I've done two major relationship reboots in my life and started a third and then gave up on it.

The first two were successful to a point - I achieved the short term goal of regaining 'hand' in the relationship and extended things a 6 months to a year longer than they would have lasted otherwise. However, after a few months things went back to the way they were. The problem is that personal change takes a long time, months or years, not weeks and is exceptionally hard to do while in an LTR you're trying to maintain a newly reestablished frame in. You will become emotionally exhausted and that energy is better spent on self improvement rather than maintaining an LTR.

That said, here's how to do it:
1) Be willing to lose her. If you're not willing to walk away you'll never have a chance.
2) Rebuild your life. In both situations I'd been spending so much effort keeping the relationship going that I'd let my own life slip. My professional and social networks were rapidly degrading and I was miserable. Take the energy you're spending on her and instead spend it on getting your own shit under control. In both cases I got a better job, moved into a new place, got new friends, etc.
3) Set clear boundaries with her. Put in exactly the amount of work you want to put in and not a bit more. If she walks, she walks. If she nags you, cut her off and tell her she can't talk to you that way anymore. If she continues, kick her out (in most situations you should be at your place because you're done putting in any effort to go over and see her).
4) Engage in standard game tactics, decisiveness, dominant body language, teasing, good sex, limited availability, etc.

If you can actually do those things it will likely work. The women in your life will treat you with the same respect that you have for yourself. By definition. If a girl doesn't treat you with the right amount of respect then she shouldn't be in your life. That said, if you haven't learned how to honestly respect yourself more you will eventually slip back into your old ways. I had this realization half way through the 3rd situation and decided it wasn't worth continuing. There are too many women out there to waste time on the ones you've already tried it with. The time and energy is better spent elsewhere.

[HonantheBarbarian]

What kind of things is she requiring from him that she didn't from you, (besides the obvious, which is commitment)?

What "barriers" does she present him with that she didn't for you? are they more physical or emotion?

This is an interesting discussion. Looking forward to more members to chime in.

[RatInTheWoods]

Well there's a difference between a FB get together and a LTR get together.

He is also getting things out of her that you never got, or never would have got with the player mindset.

Its just two different sets of rules and behaviors conflict with each other.

What's probably really doing his head in, is the fact that he is stirring your custard.

Its one thing to agonize over what a chicks done with other dudes, but a completely different mindfuck to actually know the dude shes done them with, and to hang with out with him.

[Off The Reservation]

The other guy has a secret belief that the girl is "pure."

While he may say he respects your game he doesn't really. He regards any girl you get as a slut.

But he never dreamed that "his" girl was a slut also until learning this. He is beside himself with the false contradiction he holds.

He will treat the girl like shit to punish her for being a slut for as long as he can and she will dump him.

[Off The Reservation]

Update?

[Gmac]

(01-21-2016 03:14 PM)1026 Wrote:  

It would seem that Frame is like Time.

Once lost, it can never be regained.

It's more like a winding river, or a vast turbulent ocean. If you fall asleep or get lazy while the piloting the ship, you veer off course quick. Use your compass and take the wheel.

To the OP: Choose your friends carefully. Haters gonna hate.

[Kwisatz]

He and I don't speak at all. I think that this may be it exactly. The realization that his girl isn't special, pure, or immune to men like me.

(01-22-2016 12:36 AM)offthereservation Wrote:  

The other guy has a secret belief that the girl is "pure."

While he may say he respects your game he doesn't really. He regards any girl you get as a slut.

But he never dreamed that "his" girl was a slut also until learning this. He is beside himself with the false contradiction he holds.

He will treat the girl like shit to punish her for being a slut for as long as he can and she will dump him.

[Kwisatz]

Commitment, public displays of emotion, and changing all of his online "Statuses" to "In A Relationship With_____".

Those ate the first things that I saw. Not that he was forced to, but I don't know why else he would have done it.

(01-21-2016 07:22 PM)HonantheBarbarian Wrote:  

What kind of things is she requiring from him that she didn't from you, (besides the obvious, which is commitment)?

What "barriers" does she present him with that she didn't for you? are they more physical or emotion?

This is an interesting discussion. Looking forward to more members to chime in.

[Mujeriego]

Dude obviously values her more than she does him and they both know it. Him changing his social media relationship status is a weak move to show off his prize and let other dudes know that she's his chick.

[Kwisatz]

Here are a series of videos that are the best means of how to "Right The Ship" as WestIndianArchie asks, I have seen so far! I hope you all get something positive out of them.

Bonus Materials: The videos before and after, definitely worth a watch.

Sidenote: There is a 50/50 chance that he stole all his material from Patrice O'Neal!

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Rather than state what has been restated time and time again

After you start off on the wrong foot, how does a player "right the ship"?

That's a discussion worth having.

I have a feeling that game might be involved.

WIA

[Jetset]

(01-21-2016 03:49 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I'm in the school of thought that it's easy to spoil the fruit.

I suppose with proper game you maybe allowed a mulligan, but generally if you let shit slide then it becomes gospel quick. Women will certainly take advantage of holes in your frame once they are discovered.

Just quoting this so it's posted twice, because it's correct.

I made this mistake with the LTR after a horrendous family tragedy. Obviously, this is the time to go easy, right?

Wrong. It's like Jurassic Park when the dinosaurs realize the power is out. Lesson learned, and it was probably more work than it was worth to try to get her back in line.

[H1N1]

(01-17-2018 09:41 AM)Jetset Wrote:  

(01-21-2016 03:49 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

I'm in the school of thought that it's easy to spoil the fruit.

I suppose with proper game you maybe allowed a mulligan, but generally if you let shit slide then it becomes gospel quick. Women will certainly take advantage of holes in your frame once they are discovered.

Just quoting this so it's posted twice, because it's correct.

I made this mistake with the LTR after a horrendous family tragedy. Obviously, this is the time to go easy, right?

Wrong. It's like Jurassic Park when the dinosaurs realize the power is out. Lesson learned, and it was probably more work than it was worth to try to get her back in line.

This is one of the hardest lessons to learn about female nature. If you go through a period of prolonged suffering where you're not on your A game, and that girl has options and isn't wedded to you, then the chances of her displaying any kind of loyalty are fucking slim. It is very unlikely that consideration will be given for historical frame, or indeed any value you have previously added to her life.

[Jetset]

(01-17-2018 11:23 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

This is one of the hardest lessons to learn about female nature. If you go through a period of prolonged suffering where you're not on your A game, and that girl has options and isn't wedded to you, then the chances of her displaying any kind of loyalty are fucking slim. It is very unlikely that consideration will be given for historical frame, or indeed any value you have previously added to her life.

In this case, she was the one going through the prolonged suffering. I never saw her milking the drama, but I think the subliminal messaging gradually became that temper tantrums are met with understanding and that it's OK to put her problems first.

The new Jetset who takes care of things for her had ended up being taken for granted, and it actually surprised me. When it was time to pull back and start focusing on the mundane parts of daily routine again, it was a rude awakening for me, and then for her. Both figurative and literal kicking and screaming while working on getting her back in line.

[EndsExpect]

(01-21-2016 01:17 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Rather than state what has been restated time and time again
After you start off on the wrong foot, how does a player "right the ship"?
That's a discussion worth having.
I have a feeling that game might be involved.
WIA

I've successfully done this a couple times, because I'm extremely prone to getting lazy and losing frame during long term situations. I am naturally easy going and I am afraid to say that leads to a lot of beta traits.

When people talk about "frame", a significant part of this should be viewed as a power struggle. In my experience when you let a woman begin to win the power struggle of the relationship then she will be happy short term, but lose sexual interest in you long term.

So, the question is how do you take back your power? The big thing is that by letting her dominate you, you have devalued yourself in her opinion. It's very hard to bring that value back up, but if you looks, status, lifestyle remain the same it should be possible.

The best way to bring her back is by rapidly pulling away. You can do this with a breakup, or literally anything that suddenly tells her that she is losing you. If she is still emotionally invested in you then she will work to get you back and this is your chance to reset frame. Keep in mind that by creating relationship drama a large chunk of women love this... and the harder they work to keep you, the more they cling to you later. I have literally just said "I'm not happy right now in this relationship, I don't feel like myself anymore"... and spring boarded that into being extremely dominant. I suggest you measure your success based on her sex drive.

This isn't guaranteed to work, but if you are in the situation you literally have nothing to lose.