[HankMoody]

You guys can use me as a guinea pig. I don't give a shit.

I'm not posting these things to my private LiveJournal or Facebook, which would probably elicit head pats and belly rubs from an echo chamber.

This is a public forum, where all are free to criticize, question, and add to the discussion. That's the very point of an open and honest dialogue. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ones will win out, and the bad ones will be forgotten. If I were afraid of criticism, I'd keep it to myself. I put myself out there, knowing what comes with it.

The day I start asking you all for a safe space and begging for your approval is the day you guys can put me out back to pasture.

[CleanSlate]

(01-12-2016 07:28 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

You guys can use me as a guinea pig. I don't give a shit.

I'm not posting these things to my private LiveJournal or Facebook, which would probably elicit head pats and belly rubs from an echo chamber.

This is a public forum, where all are free to criticize, question, and add to the discussion. That's the very point of an open and honest dialogue. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ones will win out, and the bad ones will be forgotten. If I were afraid of criticism, I'd keep it to myself. I put myself out there, and now what comes with that.

The day I start asking you all for a safe space, begging for your approval, is the day you guys can put me out back to pasture.

I think it's time to say "case closed".

[kaotic]

(01-12-2016 07:47 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:28 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

You guys can use me as a guinea pig. I don't give a shit.

I'm not posting these things to my private LiveJournal or Facebook, which would probably elicit head pats and belly rubs from an echo chamber.

This is a public forum, where all are free to criticize, question, and add to the discussion. That's the very point of an open and honest dialogue. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ones will win out, and the bad ones will be forgotten. If I were afraid of criticism, I'd keep it to myself. I put myself out there, and now what comes with that.

The day I start asking you all for a safe space, begging for your approval, is the day you guys can put me out back to pasture.

I think it's time to say "case closed".

and

[Pride male]

This thread isnt going the way Hank expected.

[Cobra]

(01-12-2016 08:07 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:47 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:28 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

You guys can use me as a guinea pig. I don't give a shit.

I'm not posting these things to my private LiveJournal or Facebook, which would probably elicit head pats and belly rubs from an echo chamber.

This is a public forum, where all are free to criticize, question, and add to the discussion. That's the very point of an open and honest dialogue. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ones will win out, and the bad ones will be forgotten. If I were afraid of criticism, I'd keep it to myself. I put myself out there, and now what comes with that.

The day I start asking you all for a safe space, begging for your approval, is the day you guys can put me out back to pasture.

I think it's time to say "case closed".

and

Indeed. I actually agree with Hank on this wholeheartedly and not afraid to admit it.

If anyone wants to really continue the other discussion, feel free to meet me in the Tribal Meetup thread where it has been discussed already.

Back to abundance mentality, do some of you find it was cultivated through your upbringing (eg strong father, culture)? Interested to know.

My upbringing was based on finding the "one" and my father did not help guide me otherwise.

[CleanSlate]

(01-13-2016 12:34 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

Back to abundance mentality, do some of you find it was cultivated through your upbringing (eg strong father, culture)? Interested to know.

Not for me. Nobody instilled abundance mentality into my head during my formative years. While my dad taught me how to deal with people and use my street smarts, I was thoroughly awash with scarcity mentality when it came to women.

I'm still undoing the damage and cultivating abundance, one day at a time, one approach at a time.

[godzilla]

(01-13-2016 12:34 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 08:07 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:47 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:28 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

You guys can use me as a guinea pig. I don't give a shit.

I'm not posting these things to my private LiveJournal or Facebook, which would probably elicit head pats and belly rubs from an echo chamber.

This is a public forum, where all are free to criticize, question, and add to the discussion. That's the very point of an open and honest dialogue. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ones will win out, and the bad ones will be forgotten. If I were afraid of criticism, I'd keep it to myself. I put myself out there, and now what comes with that.

The day I start asking you all for a safe space, begging for your approval, is the day you guys can put me out back to pasture.

I think it's time to say "case closed".

and

Indeed. I actually agree with Hank on this wholeheartedly and not afraid to admit it.

If anyone wants to really continue the other discussion, feel free to meet me in the Tribal Meetup thread where it has been discussed already.

Back to abundance mentality, do some of you find it was cultivated through your upbringing (eg strong father, culture)? Interested to know.

My upbringing was based on finding the "one" and my father did not help guide me otherwise.

I think you share a good point about it being possibly cultivated by your upbringing. I pretty much had absent parents through my teens. So my idea of "abundance mentality" was "the one". When no one is guiding you, you tend to follow those around you and I am sure I took a lot of things from movies, tv etc.,

Going in college, being in a new environment, etc. probably helped me the most growing out of it, though in reality it took longer then that.

[HankMoody]

(01-13-2016 12:34 PM)Cobra Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 08:07 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:47 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

(01-12-2016 07:28 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

You guys can use me as a guinea pig. I don't give a shit.

I'm not posting these things to my private LiveJournal or Facebook, which would probably elicit head pats and belly rubs from an echo chamber.

This is a public forum, where all are free to criticize, question, and add to the discussion. That's the very point of an open and honest dialogue. In the marketplace of ideas, the good ones will win out, and the bad ones will be forgotten. If I were afraid of criticism, I'd keep it to myself. I put myself out there, and now what comes with that.

The day I start asking you all for a safe space, begging for your approval, is the day you guys can put me out back to pasture.

I think it's time to say "case closed".

and

Indeed. I actually agree with Hank on this wholeheartedly and not afraid to admit it.

If anyone wants to really continue the other discussion, feel free to meet me in the Tribal Meetup thread where it has been discussed already.

Back to abundance mentality, do some of you find it was cultivated through your upbringing (eg strong father, culture)? Interested to know.

My upbringing was based on finding the "one" and my father did not help guide me otherwise.

Good question.

I was raised on mostly 80s movies, all of which were about how the nice guy gets the girl and beats the bully (the only exception of which is Pretty in Pink, where Ducky is an orbiter and ends up alone at the end).

We're raised in a society to believe in "The One". She'll come descending from the heavens and make our lives complete. She'll understand us, accept us for our flaws, and she'll also be smoking hot.

Then you have the reality of the situation. Women, even ugly ones, have a wide array of potential beta suitors. Even fat women get hit up every single day on Facebook, Instagram, OkCupid, Tinder, MySpace, etc. These new online mediums have taken any alphaness necessary for an approach and made it so easy that any beta loser can do it. Women truly live in an abundance of men, who are being told that their white knighting will eventually land them a nice one.

I didn't develop an abundance mentality until I'd banged enough decent looking women, and developed social circles that include a lot of hot younger women. The latter of which was more important.

The most important part of abundance mentality is really access to women, followed by development of game. Access is important because when you're strictly doing online dating, you're one of millions of cocks all competing for the same average looking women. At that point, women truly are scarce. I remember sending out hundreds of messages and getting few replies, or going on dates with 6s and getting blown out.

Once you've banged enough women, you realize that none of them are "special", and there are a lot you would be compatible with in a long term relationship, if that's what you're into. Right now I'm just at a point in my life where I don't want to be married or in anything serious. Your mileage my differ.

It's sort of like running my law practice - at first it was scary when the phone didn't ring, but now I've done it long enough to know that the phone will eventually ring if I'm putting myself out there.

Same with women - they come, and they go when you put yourself out there.

[Dalaran1991]

For me abundance mentality is freedom, and it does not mean you stop being interested in women or that they go down in your prority list.

I can be madly into a girl and spin all the way I can to see her, but if she says no I'll toss it aside and retry later until I get bored.

I could be in a full LTR and allow myself to love freely and deeply,without all of this radical redpill paranoia "never get into a LTR/all women burn you in the end etc". Because I know that when the LTR ends, I'll pick myself up easily and I will meet another wonderful girl and the last one will just be a beautiful memory.

Thats abundance mentality for me, freedom and assurance. Not the indifference toward women that I consider the anathema of life. Women are wonderful creatures if you hit them right. And we on RVF has all the tools to enjoy that.


On a side note: never rep Han but never dislike his threads neither. If you would need a quick, concise list of game tenets on anything, you go to Hank. He's very good at condensing key concepts and dish it out in an easy to absorb way. Though none of what he writes is new, whats the matter? Mastering the basics is more than you will ever need, and is hard enough to do. I like to think of him as the best secretary of the manosphere.

[HankMoody]

I'm currently on a dating hiatus. I've been very upfront with the women I'm seeing - I have a lot going on professionally right now. My time is extremely scarce, and my business is my top priority. Everything else - including women - is secondary. This month has been especially crazy because I've been doing a lot of work that's in the press, so I've been doing the talk radio circuit (which helps my business).

The LTR I broke up with over the weekend, who was great, wanted to have "the talk." You know, "where is this going? Do you care about me?" When I that I wasn't kidding about having too much going on to be serious about an LTR, she walked out. Took all her stuff from my house and I haven't heard from her since.

This has been my dating pattern for the last few years. Some random FWBs, and then mini LTRs that end after about 8 months when the woman realizes I really, truly, have too much going on in my life to desire an LTR, no matter how great she is.

However, I'm confident that no matter how great she was, there will be others. I'm not going to sacrifice putting myself first.

[rudebwoy]

I think #3 is not realistic.

I hear guys on here in there 50s talking about dating younger girls, but in real life I don't see it.

I am talking in the West, not Europe, not Asia and not Latin America.

Abundance mentality is good to have and a must, but don't get too caught up that you overlook the handful of good girls that might be out there. The older you get it becomes less about the notch and more about the companionship. Sure they are alot of cum dumpsters out there, but how many decent gals do you meet in your lifetime.

[kaotic]

Hank I've realized that as well, especially after dumping my LTR.

I'm not one to waste time, even dating was kind of mundane, the last 4 dates I went in the last 7 days, were okay, only 1 was fun.

I've realized I REALLY NEED to focus on bettering my own life and my career. I'm trying to stay current and on track with pipelines at work. This means putting my phone in a drawer, and I hate to say it, but I need stay off RVF and limit it to lunch, after work, and sitting on the porcelain goddess.

It's not about getting girls anymore, it's not about dates, or fucking constantly. (It is and it isn't)

I just work 7 days a week, going on dates can sometimes be draining, especially chasing new tail. I'm honestly stoked on going home and redoing a room since I assemble some furniture for and have some bad ass shit I want to put on the wall.

I can fuck when I want, I do have plates, but I should be focusing on myself this year.

The last 2 years was banging and game, now it's self improvement, more gym, and hybrid monk mode.

[HankMoody]

(01-13-2016 03:26 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

Hank I've realized that as well, especially after dumping my LTR.

I'm not one to waste time, even dating was kind of mundane, the last 4 dates I went in the last 7 days, were okay, only 1 was fun.

I've realized I REALLY NEED to focus on bettering my own life and my career. I'm trying to stay current and on track with pipelines at work. This means putting my phone in a drawer, and I hate to say it, but I need stay off RVF and limit it to lunch, after work, and sitting on the porcelain goddess.

It's not about getting girls anymore, it's not about dates, or fucking constantly. (It is and it isn't)

I just work 7 days a week, going on dates can sometimes be draining, especially chasing new tail. I'm honestly stoked on going home and redoing a room since I assemble some furniture for and have some bad ass shit I want to put on the wall.

I can fuck when I want, I do have plates, but I should be focusing on myself this year.

The last 2 years was banging and game, now it's self improvement, more gym, and hybrid monk mode.

That's been the odd realization of all this.

First it was about learning game to "win the prize" - my BPD Oneitis. I came here to learn how to lock her down. Then it was about finding validation through fucking women, and being seen around town with hot girls all the time, perhaps finding an LTR.

One day I woke up and realized that all this dating and chasing women isn't all that fun or fulfilling, and it drains my bank account, distracts me from my business, and keeps me out of the gym.

I'm not about to go MGTOW or anything or become celibate, it's just that I'm more focused on self development than women.

Which is funny, because when I was just learning game, I had no women in my life, so all my time was spent working, networking, or in the gym. I was in fantastic shape, made lots of money, and my practice grew quickly. At the time, I was like "all these things will get me lots of women!"

And it did, eventually.

But the prize for winning the pie eating contest was more pie.

[262]

"But the prize for winning the pie eating contest was more pie."

I must now add to the echo chamber and say, you have a way with words.

I'm also pretty sure I'm not the only one who's next thought was this classically cheesy 80s hair metal anthem:

[kaotic]

(01-13-2016 03:42 PM)HankMoody Wrote:  

That's been the odd realization of all this.

First it was about learning game to "win the prize" - my BPD Oneitis. I came here to learn how to lock her down. Then it was about finding validation through fucking women, and being seen around town with hot girls all the time, perhaps finding an LTR.

One day I woke up and realized that all this dating and chasing women isn't all that fun or fulfilling, and it drains my bank account, distracts me from my business, and keeps me out of the gym.

I agree it was all about winning the prize, even though we're told that we ARE the prize, we don't realize that until we've banged some quality woman that in fact, yeah, we really are the prize, and if we're not we need to better ourselves to become that prize.

Fortunately I've kept solid with the gym, even with my LTR, and spinning plates.

None of my fucks or girl came before this, hell I'd go in the morning if I had plans early.

This will not change, I love the gym, I just need more focus on nutritional intake (i've passed my original goal), I want more.

Quote:

I'm not about to go MGTOW or anything or become celibate, it's just that I'm more focused on self development than women.

Which is funny, because when I was just learning game, I had no women in my life, so all my time was spent working, networking, or in the gym. I was in fantastic shape, made lots of money, and my practice grew quickly. At the time, I was like "all these things will get me lots of women!"

And it did, eventually.

But the prize for winning the pie eating contest was more pie.

I agree, by monk mode I mean more self focus, less chasing shitty girls and cutting boring dates early. For example, in the first hour of meeting this girls, I knew I'd makeout with them no problem (all the girls I met halfway by my work).

I could've cut the night short, made out, leave them wanting more, and saved time. Out of those girls, after texting 2 of them a few days later, were already giving me sexual innuendo, that's 2 of 4, 50% I can more than likely bang, not bad.

But are they even quality girls? hell even with my plates, I just want to bang and have them dip out. I'm sort of tired of entertaining girls I've banged over and over, leave a few that are actually cool to chill with, but a man has needs.

[Dantes]

Let's not confuse abundance mentality with setting priorities in life. Going through periods when we focus on our career, family, friends, the gym and less on girls is healthy and important for a player, especially for avoiding burnout.

Abundance mentality is the perspective that there are plenty of viable quality girls out there for us to pursue, date and bang. It helps guard against oneitis and poor frame. In fact, this mentality is tied into our Frame. It is the mental foundation for which our Frame is predicated on.

Abundance mentality is our view or construct of our efficacy with girls and implicit understanding that we have options. Frame is applying this construct which is developed through experience.

It is difficult to fake abundance mentality if we don't have the experience to support it. Cognitive dissonance ensues when our thoughts are incongruent with our experiences. This is why is it so important to have years of experience with women before, imparting wisdom on Game, which is based on theory.

One of the most helpful endeavors we can take up is learning from a more experienced player. Study and learn from his interactions with women. A successful player will automatically have abundance mentality because it will be based on real experiences in knowing that he can bed women. He has real options, not such that are routed in theory.

Many aspects of Game can be "fake it until you make it". Abundance mentality is not one of them. Without actual experience of having options, your thoughts will run counter to your reality, resulting in incongruence. Abundance mentality is culmination of direct experience; it cannot be faked.

[Octavian]

(01-13-2016 07:24 PM)Dantes Wrote:  

Let's not confuse abundance mentality with setting priorities in life. Going through periods when we focus on our career, family, friends, the gym and less on girls is healthy and important for a player, especially for avoiding burnout.

Abundance mentality is the perspective that there are plenty of viable quality girls out there for us to pursue, date and bang. It helps guard against oneitis and poor frame. In fact, this mentality is tied into our Frame. It is the mental foundation for which our Frame is predicated on.

Abundance mentality is our view or construct of our efficacy with girls and implicit understanding that we have options. Frame is applying this construct which is developed through experience.

It is difficult to fake abundance mentality if we don't have the experience to support it. Cognitive dissonance ensues when our thoughts are incongruent with our experiences. This is why is it so important to have years of experience with women before, imparting wisdom on Game, which is based on theory.

One of the most helpful endeavors we can take up is learning from a more experienced player. Study and learn from his interactions with women. A successful player will automatically have abundance mentality because it will be based on real experiences in knowing that he can bed women. He has real options, not such that are routed in theory.

Many aspects of Game can be "fake it until you make it". Abundance mentality is not one of them. Without actual experience of having options, your thoughts will run counter to your reality, resulting in incongruence. Abundance mentality is culmination of direct experience; it cannot be faked.

I agree with the bit about learning from more experienced players. Game as a theory was developed by guys who struggled with girls observing guys how did well with girls.

If a younger guy asked me where to start with game, I would first tell him to look at those friends of his who get laid a lot, see what they do, and try to copy it. Maybe then pick up a book or read a blog.

The problem in general with theory is that you can master the concepts and discuss them fairly intelligently without having any experiencing testing them on Live Human Females.

I'm not much of a player. The books certainly helped me (I can't even describe how much I owe to Roosh's Bang), but I improved even more quickly when I got to know some experienced players and actually saw how it works in the field.

Anything with inner game, including abundance mentality, is very important, but you don't know you've got it until you've been rejected a bunch of times, dusted yourself off, and gotten back out there. Inner game, too, is something that only matters if you have it in the field.

[kaotic]

(01-13-2016 07:46 PM)Octavian Wrote:  

Anything with inner game, including abundance mentality, is very important, but you don't know you've got it until you've been rejected a bunch of times, dusted yourself off, and gotten back out there. Inner game, too, is something that only matters if you have it in the field.

This !

Inner game is extremely important, at least in my eyes. This is the absolute foundation you should start with, then start adding bits and pieces when you can.

Slowly you start building yourself.

When I first came to this forum, I wasn't broken, but I sure as hell needed help.

Dante is right tho, you can't fake abundance, it takes work, it takes getting out there, it takes mental strength and stamina.

Once you start getting solid dates, solid bangs, start spinning plates. Your learning curve shortens (albeit there's still ALOT to learn).

[General Stalin]

If I had to choose, I'd rather have rock solid inner game than outer game.

I'd rather be striking out with pussy and not give a shit about it and be happy regardless than smashing pussy left and right but be a slave-to-the-nut.

[kaotic]

(01-13-2016 08:37 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

If I had to choose, I'd rather have rock solid inner game than outer game.

I'd rather be striking out with pussy and not give a shit about it and be happy regardless than smashing pussy left and right but be a slave-to-the-nut.

Where do you're at now Stalin ? Somewhere in between ?

The chase and the nut can be addicting, but you don't have to be a slave to it, and let it define you.

It comes in waves with me, the drive is strong, I'll pause, focus on something else then smash another bitch.

I started with more inner game than anything and that's where it took off.

[worldwidetraveler]

From my perspective, abundance mentality comes with experience.

Money:

For a guy slaving away at a job and trying to squirrel away a retirement may view money as in short supply. He may be scared of be taken in a divorce or a market crash.

The minute I sent out an email and money started rolling in I knew that money can be printed on demand. It takes work, but you are not a slave to it like the guy trying to eek out a simple retirement.

The money can be replaced because you have done it many times.


Women:

For a guy out of a 10 year marriage the supply of dateable women may seem scarce. Everyone he knows is married at this point. This is typically fear talking. He may be out of shape, working a lot of hours, and had at least a minuscule of sex within that 10 years. His idea of a good time is sitting on the coach playing video games or Netflixing.

A guy who is in good shape, got his lifestyle on lock and goes out regularly interacting in social atmospheres will see some stares from women. He will realize that he can go out any night and there is a good chance he won't come home alone.

He is in control of his loneliness.

He decides if he wants to be alone and when he wants company.

These things are realized through experience. Abundance may fill your life in some areas and scarcity in others. It really comes to being in control or being the controlled.

[Cobra]

(01-14-2016 01:04 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

From my perspective, abundance mentality comes with experience.

Money:

For a guy slaving away at a job and trying to squirrel away a retirement may view money as in short supply. He may be scared of be taken in a divorce or a market crash.

The minute I sent out an email and money started rolling in I knew that money can be printed on demand. It takes work, but you are not a slave to it like the guy trying to eek out a simple retirement.

The money can be replaced because you have done it many times.


Women:

For a guy out of a 10 year marriage the supply of dateable women may seem scarce. Everyone he knows is married at this point. This is typically fear talking. He may be out of shape, working a lot of hours, and had at least a minuscule of sex within that 10 years. His idea of a good time is sitting on the coach playing video games or Netflixing.

A guy who is in good shape, got his lifestyle on lock and goes out regularly interacting in social atmospheres will see some stares from women. He will realize that he can go out any night and there is a good chance he won't come home alone.

He is in control of his loneliness.

He decides if he wants to be alone and when he wants company.

These things are realized through experience. Abundance may fill your life in some areas and scarcity in others. It really comes to being in control or being the controlled.

You appear to know a lot including being in good shape and having good control of loneliness. Also, it seems that you know about getting stares from women. That's cool.

I was curious if you can provide some real life examples ad to how you got here and how it makes sense to you. And how did you throw in exercise and being in good shape amidst all of this.

It would be nice to compare to others with similar experiences since you seem to know what you're talking about.

[General Stalin]

(01-14-2016 12:20 AM)kaotic Wrote:  

(01-13-2016 08:37 PM)General Stalin Wrote:  

If I had to choose, I'd rather have rock solid inner game than outer game.

I'd rather be striking out with pussy and not give a shit about it and be happy regardless than smashing pussy left and right but be a slave-to-the-nut.

Where do you're at now Stalin ? Somewhere in between ?

The chase and the nut can be addicting, but you don't have to be a slave to it, and let it define you.

It comes in waves with me, the drive is strong, I'll pause, focus on something else then smash another bitch.

I started with more inner game than anything and that's where it took off.

Currently I'd say I'm in between. Focusing on cultivating inner game right now. Abundance, outcome independence, self improvement, personal growth, and simply enjoying my personal time and life more with or without pussy.

I started on the other end of the spectrum; working on outer game and learning how to rack up notches. It has become a habit to the point where sometimes snagging pussy can consume my mind and it's frustrating. I started a thread about it.

Looking back I think my progression is pretty normal and it's what typically happens when people first find the red pill and game then get notch-happy without putting adequate focus on personal growth.

[worldwidetraveler]

(01-14-2016 01:52 AM)Cobra Wrote:  

You appear to know a lot including being in good shape and having good control of loneliness. Also, it seems that you know about getting stares from women. That's cool.

I was curious if you can provide some real life examples ad to how you got here and how it makes sense to you. And how did you throw in exercise and being in good shape amidst all of this.

It would be nice to compare to others with similar experiences since you seem to know what you're talking about.

Cobra, I am not any type of pua expert. If I go out, I go out to have a good time. I end up getting laid because of that. I am sociable with guys and girls when I go out.

Many times that is how I ended up dating some of the hotter ones in my past. There were plenty of times it seemed like I was the only guy not hitting on them. I was just treating them like I did everyone else.

I think I just got used to going out and meeting people due to being on the road a lot for consulting gigs. I could sit in the hotel room or get out and have some fun.

I rather have some fun.

Sometimes I would get looks just because I was having a ton of fun. Sometimes they liked my look. Women find a lot of different things attractive. I don't think they even really know themselves what they like.

Some of the best girls I ended up dating was when I was out of shape. I would say I am not handsome but would be considered cute. I have been called handsome but a lot of times that is from a woman already vested in me.

I doubt they were commenting strictly on my looks but also included my other traits that made me attractive to them. I would say my biggest asset is being a bullshitter. I joke around a lot. I have one friend that would say it was my shtick.

I think the big thing is just being out there interacting with people. I would be the worst wing in history because I tend to talk to everyone. I'm not out to just meet women. That is just my personality.

You spend enough time being around people you will get laid. You don't need to be the biggest guy, the richest guy or the most handsome. That is why I think people shouldn't be looking at this stuff in black and white terms. There are plenty of ways to get what you want.