[Irenicus]

I also think that one should not invest a lot of money on a new style if he is not familiar with it.

But as Ksbms said, one should avoid crap like H&M, Zara... . Not only because many of their products make me feel like cutting my own dick so to speak, but their quality is poor. I much prefer trifting, because you can get better quality items for the same (sometimes even lower price.)

I remember not too long ago that I wanted to see how a black dress shirt would look like with a combination with dark blue pants (bought a crappy H&M on sale). Since I have a beard and dark hair I have seen people moving away from me...quick. Guess it looks...a bit threatening. It's good that the experiment...costed only a few euros.

I will try with ox blood red shirt tomorrow, never seen anyone in the vicinity with something similar.

[btz]

Heres my take on it

A few years ago I was still dressing like I was 15 - shorts/jeans and a t shirt, a light sweater if it was cool, a jacket if it was cold, and tennis shoes. I simply didn't give a fuck. I'm not in a major fashion capital and in most places I've lived it's just how guys dressed, whatever is cheapest was bought off the rack and whatever was clean was worn without really any consideration as to how it looked.

Then as I began my career I knew I had to start dressing like an adult and after many years of "whatever" I actually put some thought into my style. My sister gave me the best advice:

1) fit is more important than brand or price
2) nice shoes are a must have

I started dressing better and immediately noticed the same thing you did, insecure, shy, a little withdrawn. It threw me off at first as disinterest but that's when I learned when a girl starts becoming introverted and nervous, it's the REAL INDICATION of interest. I asked a girl who later went on to be a girlfriend about this and she said "when I saw you, I knew you had your shit together and could get any girl. I didn't feel like I was good enough". Now she was a smoking 8 and fashionable but in some parts of the world guys just don't look like they have it together, girls are just as visual as guys except in a different way. They try to interpret the meaning of things vs. guys who take things at face value and are aroused by it. They are more aroused about what you convey though everything else but your words.

When you dress sharp, you convey a much higher SMV. Mix that in with a slight bit of game and you're already ahead of most guys who have approached her and she starts to shut down. When I notice her becoming withdrawn/shy/introverted I'll give her a deep personality compliment or something about her own style. I know many people will view this as putting her on the pedestal but when you do it from a position where shes "hooked" and views your SMV above hers it's more like bringing her up to your level and their eyes always light up when you give them that type of validation and you can plow ahead.

Another quick tip

In social circles where the girls know you and have an interest in you but view you are above them they resort to negging which some guys can view as shit tests, if you deal with these negs like shit tests then you will only make her more insecure but also more interested. Instead if you actually want the girl, and know she wants you, you need to treat these the way you would a comfort test, if she negs you on fashion then turn it around with "shutup, you know it looks good. But if you think you've got a better eye i'm open to suggestions". On your looks: "yea I know but thankfully the girls I'm into have more than just looks going for them", on your job/money: "relax, I haven't even begun" (works for too high value and too low value)

most girls younger than 40 have the idea in their head that they should be with a guy who wants them more than he wants her, obviously we know why this is flawed but most girls don't see it. When they view you as having that kind of power in the relationship they either try to bring you down to their level or disengage fearing that they won't be able to keep you. The idea is not to knock anyone down or go white knight on them but to give them a reason to believe you 2 are equally matched.

[Ringo]

(01-05-2016 03:11 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 02:46 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

And avoid cheap fast fashion brands like GAP, H&M, Topman, Zara which use lowly cotton and dyes and poor stitching.

Disagree, especially for younger guys.

Like jariel hit on, finding your style is an expensive venture and more complicated than putting on whatever clothes you find. "Fast fashion" allows guys to buy relatively cheap clothes, wear them out a few nights, and tinker with what their style is.

I know this because I've done it in the past year. My closet is filled with clothes that I've worn only a handful of times, clothes I bought because I was pushing the envelope and didn't like wearing. But - there are a few pieces I wear constantly that I wouldn't have tried if I had to spend $200 to commit to them.

Disagree as well. If we're talking about looking good, fit should be the #1 priority. A beautiful, but ill fitting Armani suit looks like... and ill fitting suit, regardless of brand or quality. If anything, I would say it's more detrimental because (if anyone's paying close attention) it shows you have money but no style. Ultimately, we should aim for money and style, but no money + style still wins.





I do agree with the rest of ksbms's post, though. Higher quality pieces mean less trash, less consumeristic shopping sprees and well made pieces tend to age better and have character.

I have a smaller wardrobe with higher quality pieces and some throwaway ones (why would you want a U$100 tee?) but they have one thing in common - they fit well.

[ksbms]

(01-06-2016 10:14 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 03:11 PM)redbeard Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 02:46 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

And avoid cheap fast fashion brands like GAP, H&M, Topman, Zara which use lowly cotton and dyes and poor stitching.

Disagree, especially for younger guys.

Like jariel hit on, finding your style is an expensive venture and more complicated than putting on whatever clothes you find. "Fast fashion" allows guys to buy relatively cheap clothes, wear them out a few nights, and tinker with what their style is.

I know this because I've done it in the past year. My closet is filled with clothes that I've worn only a handful of times, clothes I bought because I was pushing the envelope and didn't like wearing. But - there are a few pieces I wear constantly that I wouldn't have tried if I had to spend $200 to commit to them.

Disagree as well. If we're talking about looking good, fit should be the #1 priority. A beautiful, but ill fitting Armani suit looks like... and ill fitting suit, regardless of brand or quality. If anything, I would say it's more detrimental because (if anyone's paying close attention) it shows you have money but no style. Ultimately, we should aim for money and style, but no money + style still wins.





I do agree with the rest of ksbms's post, though. Higher quality pieces mean less trash, less consumeristic shopping sprees and well made pieces tend to age better and have character.

I have a smaller wardrobe with higher quality pieces and some throwaway ones (why would you want a U$100 tee?) but they have one thing in common - they fit well.

Just to clarify, guys, well-fitting clothes are prerequisite and this is to be understood implicitly. Refraining from brands like GAP, H&M, Topman, Zara doesn't mean breaking your bank. There's eBay, sales, TK Maxx, thrift shops, small boutiques where you can negotiate prices, etc. Just one small example: I got an excellent pair of brand new CK trousers for a bargain price of £29 so it's not like better brands are completely inaccessible. Buying better clothes doesn't mean you have to spend much more. Sometimes you spend just as much (or as little) as for the fast fashion brands products.

[WestIndianArchie]

Again I disagree.

Dressing for yourself or your job is where you should spend time and money.

But if you're trying to bag bitches, you're better served by the poorly made but trendy style of the moment over something that you're going to wear for years.

Zara and H&M especially watch runways and then create facsimiles and get them to market typically within 3 weeks. That's their business model and why they are successful. You're getting a Marc Jacobs look for a Wal-Mart price. The Marc Jacobs piece may be better constructed with better materials, but it's not timeless. Fashion is rarely timeless, and you can easily look like last winter. Style is timeless.

But for game purposes, if you're young, you want to look hip. That means pieces you can only wear for 3-5 months. Realistically you might wear something a handful of times.

Older guys, late 20's and you look it, that's the time to transition from fashion to style. But otherwise drop crotch pants, motorcycle jeans, knee length shirts, flannel, beards, tattoos, all that stuff is what catches a chicks eye.

Why spend money on established brands or discounted legit designer threads when you can buy the look at Fast Fashion?

Hot chicks do not reward guys for merely dressing properly. You don't get points for coordinating your leathers.

WIA

[ksbms]

I'll put forward one more, and I think, a crucial argument for absconding from the ledge of fast fashion clothes (or just to rely solely on them). It's not a secret, that low price makes FF clothes accessible to anyone and, as a consequence, its ubiquity makes guys look as if they've just got off an assembly line. These days, guys flock in droves to FF retailers shops to look trendy and 'fashionable'. As a result, most guys, to reiterate, dress like a copy of each other!

One of the tenant of the game is for a player to differentiate himself from non-players. Utilising FF clothes defeats that purpose, and as timeless, folk knowledge tells us - how they see you, that's how they perceive you. Making a good first impression can only help. A well-rounded player will see it as an advantage to look different.

Imagine, a big box of grey balls with one blue ball. Why would you pay attention to the blue ball, at most basic level? Precisely, because it's blue, it stands out. Same for girls - if all guys wear the same thing, a guy wearing a Zegna Trofeo suit will immediately draw attention. I think most guys underappreciate girls' capacity regarding clothes - they spend hours upon hours buying clothes, comparing clothes of other girls, skimming through fashion magazines. It's, by analogy, like for many guys with cars - we can tell minuscule difference of different versions of the same model, whereas most girls would have a problem to see a difference between Ford Focus and Audi A3.

I don't advocate to throw away all your wardrobe but investing in a couple higher quality garments, can make a difference. It can give a girl an excuse to open you by asking a question about the garment and/or compliment you on it. Obviously, as noted above, a lots depends on demographics. For chicks of barely legal age, this not crucial but from an older bracket, can have a positive impact.

Also, not to be underestimated, is the fact knowing you're wearing good, well-fitted clothes that are stylishly put together, will improve your confidence and make you feel powerful (sic!). For example, an article Wearing a suit makes people think differently in the Atlantic articulates, backed up by research, this line of thought. Thus, the advantages of nicer clothes, I believe, are multifaceted and worth a thoughtful consideration.

[Cobra]

(01-05-2016 10:42 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

I also think that one should not invest a lot of money on a new style if he is not familiar with it.

But as Ksbms said, one should avoid crap like H&M, Zara... . Not only because many of their products make me feel like cutting my own dick so to speak, but their quality is poor. I much prefer trifting, because you can get better quality items for the same (sometimes even lower price.)

I remember not too long ago that I wanted to see how a black dress shirt would look like with a combination with dark blue pants (bought a crappy H&M on sale). Since I have a beard and dark hair I have seen people moving away from me...quick. Guess it looks...a bit threatening. It's good that the experiment...costed only a few euros.

I will try with ox blood red shirt tomorrow, never seen anyone in the vicinity with something similar.

I can't fully agree that H&M and Zara are crap. While they are not the highest quality, as long as you take good care of them, you can get some decent wear out of them on the cheap.

By "taking care," I mean dry cleaning, everything. I mean H&M pants should not be thrown in a washer for the very reason you mentioned. A lot of guys do and then they say that the pants suck when it looks worn out from the wash.

I still have 2 pairs of H&M pants I wear regularly and maintain. I bought them over 6 months ago. People think that I'm dressed more expensive than I really am. The fit on H&M pants for skinny guys is great IF you find the right ones.

Instead, a better source is Express. Their clothes are higher quality but can suffer from some similar workmanship issues but mostly are higher quality than H&M.

Truth is that a young guy does not have the cash to splurge on well fitting much higher quality threads that he can buy and create outfits with. In the meantime, he can wear some Zara/H&M/Express stuff and still add expensive higher quality items slowly, one by one to the long term wardrobe. That's a much better way to handle style in my opinion.

You may ask, why waste money on the cheaper stuff? It's simple. That's because you get more style value for your money immediately as long as you walk into a store and figure out your size. No worries about tailoring or price. Quality is the downside but it's okay to buy new stuff every 6 months to a year. That's because your fashion sense will evolve anyways and you will thank me for not telling you to spend thousands on blazers that you can't match up or appreciate anymore.

Forum members have met me and see how I dress; so I'm sure they can vouch for me.

[rudebwoy]

^ I had a Zegna soft blue blazer that someone stole from me, I still cry today about it. You cannot find pieces like that easily, unless you want to drop big money. I use to buy alot of Zegna wholesale from a distributor, until they closed down. The clothes last, feel good and it is a style you can wear for a long time.

I think people in the UK are way more serious about fashion than this side of the pond.

I concur with you about buying a few higher quality garments, it goes along way.

Zara is good, but everybody in suburbia is buying that stuff and thinking it's Armani.

ksbms +1 from me.

[WestIndianArchie]

OP told us already that he wore a Corneliani suit to day game and got better results in a designer leather jacket.

Suit game is limited, and girls prefer guys in cool clothes.

WIA

[Irenicus]

I can not recall I said that here, but that something like happened, WIA. Younger chicks would more easily open to me when I was in my designer jacket (and dark wash jeans and matching boots), than in a suit.

So basically, it can be concluded that suit game will not work in EE (there you would go too far and look too intimidating - good example of overdressing). On the other hand, wearing a well fitted and nice looking leather jacket will make you stand out in a positive way (which I concluded, thanks to the very good comments, is not overdressing, but rather, dressing well and sexy.)

Not to mention that I misunderstood the IOI's... .

[General Stalin]

(01-06-2016 01:01 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

OP told us already that he wore a Corneliani suit to day game and got better results in a designer leather jacket.

Suit game is limited, and girls prefer guys in cool clothes.

WIA

I agree with this. Fact of the matter is none of us are James Bond and we aren't picking up sultry and sought-after lounge singers at posh martini bars.

Unless you are gaming older careerist types who get wet for dudes who look like they are made of money or most-interesting-man-in-the-world game then rolling out to a bar or dance club with a $1000 suit to game girls may be overdoing it.

Again, if thats your style and your life then it's perfectly congruent so whatever, but we aren't all Barney Stinson. A dude looking like he rolled off the set of It's Always Sunny will do fine. Like WIA said, girls like guy who simply looks cool and put together. Looking like a male model can surely be intimidating and dare I say "over-gaming."

[WestIndianArchie]

Nuance! look at that fucking scoundrel on the right.
You think the suit is hurting him?



You can wear an expensive suit and pick up during the day, but you need to think deeply about what you're doing.

This is not one of those
"If the suit fits, I hit slits"

Less black and white, more thinking about your actions.

WIA

[Ringo]

(09-06-2015 02:02 PM)Laner Wrote:  

Always keep in mind that the biggest difference between wearing suits is:

Look like you are wearing a suit because you want to vs. wearing a suit because you have to.

This frame of mind should start at your wardrobe selection and be obvious in your nighttime game as well.

thread-9489-...pid1105730

[Irenicus]

WIA, good picture (like the dress shirt as well). Since I have different hair complexion (black) I do not think I can rock that color - some lighter color would probably do. And it is snowy here, so I will have to wait a bit with that.

I never, ever believed that you can wear a suit like that.

And Ringo, thanks for that link, seems to have a lot of info I need.

[XXL]

Wearing a suit in daytime when your job doesn't require you to do it or when you have no valid reason to wear it or when you go for under 24 girls... that's overdressing.

Want to look good and cool? Easy. Put on a cool jacket over quality tshirt plus dark trousers and nice shoes and you're good.

[Black_Eagle_Six]

(01-03-2016 04:47 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Of course not.

Who are we looking at here... the m manson vs k cobain giant (in 5" platforms) or the guys in matrix 3? Where are the women?

On the serious angle, I usually go for a few steps above what I wear in real life and business... to maintain my comfort level and moves.

[eradicator]

(01-05-2016 10:34 PM)soup Wrote:  

Overdressed would be anything that looks try hard. Men's fashion should fit, make the guy stand out from from the herd, and show or imply high value.

Soup, does this mean you are back?

[H1N1]

Interesting stuff. I tend to dress pretty smart - generally I'll wear chinos or dark jeans, chelsea boots/loafers/smart boat shoes, an open button-down-collar shirt, and a soft jacket still with good shape, or sometimes a livelier tweed jacke (I'm from a 'good', traditional background in England). Real dress down for me is to wear a more country, thicker cotton, work-shirt (usually with some kind of distinctive but classic twist) with a slightly fashionable jumper, with decent jeans like levis, and loafers.

This has been very effective for me, I get much more attention now, I think because it is congruent with my personality. My vibe is far more of the withdrawn intellectual than the fun-loving party boy. When I used to dress like a fun loving party boy, I didn't do particularly well, despite being tall, relatively muscular, and conventionally handsome. It wasn't congruent with my demeanor, and girls could smell it a mile off. They are much more attuned to these things than we are, generally. I clung to that look because it showed that I was fit, and I saw myself as a tough guy (I was a boxer and a soldier). The problem was that because I smiled a lot, was thoughtful, open, and enthusiastic, but withdrawn from normal conversation and only really lighting up at the more substantial stuff, I didn't seem congruent.

Since embracing the wardrobe change, I've also found my natural character developing and showing itself far more regularly. I used to be very charismatic and charming, as a child, but I lost sight of it when I started thinking and dressing like I was something I was not - the party-boy/bad-boy. Because I looked like something I wasn't, I altered my demeanor, and left my good qualities to rot in the weeds, whilst trying to compete with qualities that did not come naturally to me with other guys who were far more congruent.

I think we often underestimate just how much potential our outward presentation can affect how we see ourselves, and how true to our own natures we are.

[General Stalin]

(01-06-2016 02:03 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Nuance! look at that fucking scoundrel on the right.
You think the suit is hurting him?



You can wear an expensive suit and pick up during the day, but you need to think deeply about what you're doing.

This is not one of those
"If the suit fits, I hit slits"

Less black and white, more thinking about your actions.

WIA

Gotta say about the guy on the right, everything about this picture says "I crush a lot." Great example of wearing a suit casually to fit one's style. Dude looks real good.

[Irenicus]

Adding some good looking Aviators to that suit combo will make you literally unstoppable.

[Surreyman]

(01-07-2016 08:06 AM)H1N1 Wrote:  

Because I looked like something I wasn't, I altered my demeanor, and left my good qualities to rot in the weeds, whilst trying to compete with qualities that did not come naturally to me with other guys who were far more congruent.

I think we often underestimate just how much potential our outward presentation can affect how we see ourselves, and how true to our own natures we are.

This is so true. Style has to be consistent with who you are, which is why some men get very far with tank tops, whilst others have better results with blazers/sports jackets. Knowing yourself, knowing style/fashion, and knowing the occasion is the key to putting together serious outfits.

Most of what I was reading from the experiences shared in this thread, is that dressing uniquely and standing out is important. Not ridiculous clothes like the picture of Mystery, but more like the checked jacket of the bearded man in WIA's photo. The jacket it perfect because it's not just stylish, it's also unique and bold.

When you can get away with wearing clothes that are too 'out there' for most other men, you've not only demonstrated that you have good taste, but also that you are a bold individual who doesn't wring his hands worrying about what other people think.

[SuperBock]

Can't seem to get the quote function to work on my phone but Beyond Borders wrote:
"Maybe it's just me, but I think there's something to be said for being in a pair of nice jeans and a fitted t-shirt in a crowd full of guys wearing blazers and suits. You definitely stand out.

This is just off the top of my head, but if you don't look insecure about it in the slightest, I think it shows character and makes you stand out from the crowd. Everyone else is "trying," but you could care less. If your shirt is stylish or unique - or if you've got a nice build - it stands out more than ever because it's so different than what everyone else is wearing."

I know exactly what you mean and I guess it comes down to just feeling that you look good in what you're wearing, regardless of whether it happens to be noticeably different/more casual than others around you.

In fact if what you're wearing does stand out as different, your confidence in your appearance is only amplified to others who may feel they would never dare dress so differently to everyone else.

I only really picked up on this last year, whenever I wore a particular set of clothes I got FAR more IOI's from women than I normally do.
Took me a while to work out the common thread in all those nights with women eying me up left right and centre was the clothes.

A casual salmon pink Tommy Hillfiger shirt, untucked with sleeves rolled up, a pair of light wash, nicely fitted diesel jeans and a pair of brown leather Hillfiger flip flops. Not exactly 'out there' but really casual and not the usual safe, bland, smart stuff too many people wear when they go out.

I'm not really sure if it's the pinkness of the shirt, the good fit accentuating my physique or the flip flops in a sea of smart shoes. Probably all of those combined with people just picking up on my feeling good wearing it.

First time I noticed it was in a hotel restaurant in the Austrian Alps last Summer. Just getting my Salad from the cart with my kids and I notice a large group of young biathletes (Baltic state national teams on training camp at the nearby biathlon centre) and one of the tables is all beautiful young girls.

I'm not really sure what eye fucking is but if it's ever happened to me, that was it. Most of them were staring at me, huddling in talking and when I caught their gaze, they just held it, obvious sexual energy and it was almost like they were licking their lips with predator like 'fuck me' eyes.

I have to say it made me uncomfortable and I looked away first. Later I made a point of walking past their table again and same thing happened but this time I just held their gaze with a knowing smirk.

Since then, whenever I go out wearing this to bars, I get a loads of eye contact, lots of 'accidental' touching/brushing against me and sometimes even girls approaching me.

I can't do much as I'm married but the attention is nice and it will be a sad day when they get too old to wear.

My fave pink shirt in the centre.
Can anyone tell me why my pics only come out small and low res when I simply copy the code from the 'forum' option at imageshack?

[ball dont lie]

(01-06-2016 02:03 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

Nuance! look at that fucking scoundrel on the right.
You think the suit is hurting him?



You can wear an expensive suit and pick up during the day, but you need to think deeply about what you're doing.

This is not one of those
"If the suit fits, I hit slits"

Less black and white, more thinking about your actions.

WIA

Guy the left, his main problem is his posture. Unbutton another button on that blue shirt, stop leaning into the guy on the right, would look great himself. Those high waisted trousers are spot on. He knows what he is doing. If the two men's posture switched, the guy on the right would look bad.

Overall, I think suit game looks great on both of them, main difference is between the ears.

[ksbms]

(01-09-2016 03:16 AM)SuperBock Wrote:  

A casual salmon pink Tommy Hillfiger shirt, untucked with sleeves rolled up, a pair of light wash, nicely fitted diesel jeans and a pair of brown leather Hillfiger flip flops. Not exactly 'out there' but really casual and not the usual safe, bland, smart stuff too many people wear when they go out.

I don't want to sound spiteful, but an untucked TH shirt, washed jeans and TH flip flops outfit is... pretty safe and bland. Not to mention that, by convention, an untucked buttoned down is a faux pas just as much as eating with your fingers at a Michelin starred restaurant (not that I really care but I think that's what majority of folk who pay attention to style would think). Not to mention, an untucked buttoned down shirt, be it plain, pin-striped or checked, a default go-to of hordes of guys on a night out. Nothing wrong with that outfit per se, but it's not anything out of ordinary, really.

(01-09-2016 03:16 AM)SuperBock Wrote:  

Since then, whenever I go out wearing this to bars, I get a loads of eye contact, lots of 'accidental' touching/brushing against me and sometimes even girls approaching me.

This may or may not be true. Just as well there can be many other things - perhaps you've become more outgoing or your attitude or how you feel changed? Unless girls verbalised that what made them talk to you was because the way you dressed, it's just an assumption. Let's be honest, untucked shirt, washed jeans and flip-flops are nice but that's all about them.

[zatara]

(01-06-2016 10:14 AM)Ringo Wrote:  

What's the cut style on the jeans on the right? Straight-leg?