[Irenicus]

How is going folks?

As I have stated on my lifestyle goals before, one of them is updating my wardrobe. So far, I got some cool stuff (YSL leather jacket and Corneliani suit, and I am not stopping there, of course).

I am gaming in Eastern Europe, at this moment, and I speak the local languages fluently (native speaker).

Now, when I rolled out to test my new wardrobe in..."battlefield conditions" (I am specialized in day Game, and I usually go for the kill when a girl shows some kind of IOI, although I sometimes use cold approach a la Nick Krouser) I have noticed something...strange.

Yes, I do get a lot of IOIs from nice looking girls (even those who are out with their BFs), but a significant amount...seems to be quite insecure in, or near my presence (they look down, towards the floor) - this includes not only mediocre girls...but also nice looking ones (7,5+).

I can make only two conclusions. Either they think that I am way too good for them, or that I am a player (proud of that).

That being said, I have some questions:

- Is it a good thing (you weed out the weak candidates)?

- Is it a shit test of some sort?

- What should be my course of action? Should I slow down a little bit, or hit it further (in order to weed out more non prospective candidates)?

- Has anyone experienced something similar, and what did you do?

I did use the search feature, and I did not find something like that. And also, I have put it here on Game thread, because I believe that it has more in common with it than Lifestyle. If I made the wrong pick, I apologize.

Thank you.

[CleanSlate]

While I do think its possible to come off as trying too hard by overdressing, I also think that whenever they look down, it is a sign of interest. Keep going...

[Vincent Chase]

I have also spent the last 6 months buying some really good clothes with an eye on game and I can tell you it has resulted in many more bangs and attraction from girls of 8 caliber.

That said you can definitely overdo it. I also bought a really nice leather jacket but if anything it is too much for a first date, so I use another (faux) leather jacket which is a bit more casual and it works well. You don't want to give off the vibe that you're putting out a huge amount of effort to impress a girl you barely know, at the same time you have to dress the part. Though it is better to overdo it than underdo it. Well fitted jeans, Chelsea boots and a nice jacket will serve you well.

For day game compared to night game tone it down a notch.

[WestIndianArchie]

(01-03-2016 01:40 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

but a significant amount...seems to be quite insecure in, or near my presence (they look down, towards the floor)

Without further investigation, usually this means that they're deferring to you.

A chick that is in a "lower station" so to speak, doesn't always have ambitions to climb to the top.

I know that doesn't jive with current pick up theory that says every girl is always trying to move up the social ladder.

The reality is that
- The college aged set - (18-21) isn't looking to get tied down, they're looking for fun. A suit doesn't say fun. The leather jacket does though. If a chick that young is too in to your suit, she's looking for money. Just run your gold digging protocol and pay attention. Switch to a Seeking Arrangement-style game if that's what you think is happening.

- The just out of college set (22-25) - is really at prime marrying age, but most will just want to continue the party. Some will feel the suit, others won't.

26+ is the sweet spot, because the suit doesn't say old, it says successful and powerful. Maybe that appeals to her gold digger impulses, but most chicks should be settling down at that age, so having "the look" is essential.

I'd say this is arguably global, because a suit + a little bit of age (3-4 years) = Dad. A hottie doesn't want to fuck her Dad.

If you're in the real age range for these chicks, you just need to dress better (i.e. trendier/more stylish) than the guys in that range.

If you're older
1) own your new look and be unapologetic about it
2) recalibrate with the target market.

Again, against the orthodoxy - you don't want to dress for women, you want to dress for yourself. And how you dress has to make sense with your lifestyle. You never want to look 'nice'. If you're suited up, that's what you wear when you buy your groceries and pay your bills, at work, at school, not just to pick up chicks.

There was a huge trend of guys wearing those rocker bracelets, skulls, misfits t-shirts - and they weren't into that scene at all. They were posing. Got your hair all spiky and you take her to nice dinner instead of the dive rock bar that she imagines you to go to.

Going back to the concept of Tribes, a chick might stick with her tribe, or she might check yours out. But if you're not actually in the tribe that you're wearing - she's not going to feel it.

The exact opposite happens with chicks. She changes her personality, changes her tribe, with every outfit and makeup makeover.

My 2 cents anyway.

WIA

[RatInTheWoods]

You should always aim to be a little bit better dressed than the average level around you.

What that average level is, depends on where you are, the culture and the setting.

Observe the dress standards in the environment you want to shine in, and aim just a bit above that mark.

If you over dress or underdress for the environment you are in, you will look foolish and undermine yourself. eg a suit on the beach...

[topdog]

I used to roll to bars and nightclubs suited up. I no longer practice night-game regularly, but I was told by a fellow player that overdressing might have been hurting my results: at most venues where young girls congregate to have fun (and not just milk their orbiters), the vibe is more casual.

Most of the times, I suited up because I like to, and it helped with the face-control at some doors. But other than that, IMO you should do what WIA says: adjust to your target market.

Now my style goal is to tone down all the formality of my wardrobe (suits, office clothes) and get more casual/stylish stuff. I already bought a couple well-fitting dark-colored jeans, a good pair of boots, and Bostonian-style brown shoes.

[Irenicus]

Thank you for the input folks (and especially to WIA), much appreciated.

I was also thinking that looking down is a sign of submission of some sort ("you won, now take me to your cave and fuck me until I am unable to walk") - but I thought that does not apply to humans, only pets. You guys proved me wrong, and the recent article about dogs in ROK.

Hell,sometimes, the Beta deep in me, that I thought dead, just does not to shut up.

I'll ditch my suit game for now. Quick question about suit game. Now, for a guy my age and looks(just turned 26, white, Mediterranean looking with black hair and beard - should have mentioned that earlier ), is it appropriate to wear some colored suits?

I will check also the thrift stores tomorrow - they are getting new merchandise then, and I will find something more casual, that will keep my sex appeal high. I will keep you updated.

EDIT

RatintheWoods - that is what I am always trying to achieve - I wan to leave the impression that I am unique and a good catch.

Topdog - thanks.

[The Beast1]

Showing up to a party in a tuxedo when everyone is wearing jeans is precisely a case of over dressing.

The trick is to dress well enough but not too well as to price out of the market.

[kaotic]

(01-03-2016 03:05 PM)Irenicus Wrote:  

EDIT

RatintheWoods - that is what I am always trying to achieve - I wan to leave the impression that I am unique and a good catch.

Topdog - thanks.

Clothing can only do so much, you still have to open your mouth and game a girl, handle your frame, and take her home and battle possible LMR.

Yes clothing is a building block, however there are more important things.

I've never rocked a suit on a date, I use nice button ups, nice pair of jeans or canvas pants, throw a fresh pair of Chucks. I'll still get laid, another factor is I wear dress clothes 9-5 M-F.

[el mechanico]

   

Of course not.

[the Thing]

Couple years ago, I was taking lower / middle class chicks to top tier dining establishments and then wondering why they were so nervous all the time.

I think it's applicable to clothing as well. Why cause her discomfort when you're trying to build comfort.

[Adrenaline]

Clothing often makes up 80-90% of your body so it's very important, but I think where people go wrong around here is assuming nice clothes = suits, blazers and all these other items that historically indicate professionalism and wealth. That's simply not true. You have to adapt to your environment, and there are plenty of ways to dress (Jeans, chinos, simple button ups, t-shirts, hell even muscle tops) that can increase your attractiveness as much, or more so than wearing a generic suit.

I laugh whenever I see someone wearing a full suit in a third world country like Thailand because it's humid as fuck and you come across as try hard. A short sleeve button up shirt tucked into some dressy chinos with nice shoes would suffice if you want to get trendy in that part of the world because let's face it, it's really not difficult to out-dress the guys there. In Australia, if you wear a suit to a casual night out you'll be ridiculed by friends, girls and people you don't even know. It's just not the norm here (unless you're a corporate worker on after work drinks or going to a wedding) where most men go out in jeans and a t-shirt. A lot of clubs/bars even let guys in with shorts, muscle shirts and flip flops in summer. In saying that, these guys don't even look tacky because they know how to pull off that casual style and still look great, and the women love it. I get more attention going out in elastic chinos/sleeveless muscle top/nice casual shoes than I do dressing up in dress pants, dress shoes and a long sleeve button up tucked into a belt and complimented with a $500 watch...because I know how to dress well CASUALLY.

So you need to dress well at all times. Always make sure what you're wearing fits right, is colour coordinated and compliments your body, but yes there is such a thing as overdressing, depending on the environment you're in.

[jariel]

OP, I can really speak on this, in fact, I actually saw your post after you made it last night, and I got excited, but I was too tired to post.

First off, when it comes to fashion, present yourself in the way you want to present yourself because that's what you want to do. Don't do it because you want to get "IOI" from women.

I have many times been the "best dressed guy" in the room, and more often than not, it just means you're the best dressed guy in the room.

Regardless of how you look, you still have to step up and spit game.

If you're going to be that guy, then you have to pursue the most attractive women in the room.

You can't look Red Carpet Fresh and step to 6s, then the whole presentation is just off because your look says one thing, but your confidence says another.

Incongruity and the game don't mix.

Second, creating your own style is an expensive venture. Ultimately, I believe that one's wardrobe should be geared around what one does for a living.

Don't buy a bunch of fly shit just to be a Saturday Night Player.

You'll do much better when you're dressed well during non-social situations and you step to women. A man who is well-dressed during the day is assumed to be a man who does something that requires him to dress well, which inflates his overall importance. Contrast that with the man who's running errands during his lunch from Jiffy Lube.

Third, you seem to be a high-end player like myself. High-end fashion brands are cool, I buy them because they're just fuckin' dope and the guality is second to none, but in that case, keep your wardrobe small -- don't cop trendy shit that will quickly becomes yesterday's news. Unless you're getting paid and in the fashion game, there's no need to have 10 different pairs of Gucci kicks -- one pair of sneakers and one pair of loafers is honestly enough.

As a high-end guy, again, you're only concerned with the most attractive women, because only they will give you props for your fashion sense and recognize your taste in high-end brands.

I've been approached many times over my Gucci backpacks and Jimmy Choo sneaks -- all of them gifts paid for by other bitches.

Lastly, recognize the occasion. You don't suit up for "College Night". You do suit up for that March of Dimes event. If you're going to a dance club, don't wear your best outfit, don't wear your best shoes, there's no need to sweat out dope threads and dirty up fire kicks.

In the future via my RTS, I'll go real deep on this fashion shit. It is one of the true loves of my life.

[BrewDog]

I'd say that dressing up works great. I've had the best luck ever when I've left work in a suit and gone straight to some bar. But I think it needs to be in context. It worked well for me those times because I had just left work. It made me seem like a high power guy that just got out of a meeting and walked across the street to a bar.

But if it's a thing where you just dress up to go out to look cool, you need to play that shit right. Being in a suit definitely pulls some tail, but I'd have a good story with it. Tell them you just had a meeting or some shit.

[CynicalContrarian]

Heh. As per the photograph above - paging Mystery.

While I usually intend to dress quite well when out on social events, one thing I try to implement,
is to not be too trendy. Stylish, well groomed yes.
Yet I don't see the value in being dressed in exactly the same manner as all the other guys.
Especially as so many male fashion trends these days make a guy look soft.

Then again, if you're actively trying to avoid gold-diggers. The Rolex watch may not be ideal.

[Suits]

If you are running suit game, it had better be casual wear suits. If your outfit says 'day at the office' you might be doing it wrong.

I rock suits and blazers a lot, but I do it in a way that tells people that I'm a real guy and it's just a reflection of my personality. Typically, I'll go jeans and jacket, unless it is an environment that calls for the full jacket/pants combo and even then I'll generally go with separates. I don't usually wear matching jacket and pants unless I'm going to a wedding.

Do a forum search for the term "congruent."

[Beyond Borders]

(01-03-2016 02:38 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  

You should always aim to be a little bit better dressed than the average level around you.

What that average level is, depends on where you are, the culture and the setting.

Observe the dress standards in the environment you want to shine in, and aim just a bit above that mark.

If you over dress or underdress for the environment you are in, you will look foolish and undermine yourself. eg a suit on the beach...

I used to agree with this wholeheartedly and always go slightly above and beyond, but I've also had success dressing down.

Maybe it's just me, but I think there's something to be said for being in a pair of nice jeans and a fitted t-shirt in a crowd full of guys wearing blazers and suits. You definitely stand out.

This is just off the top of my head, but if you don't look insecure about it in the slightest, I think it shows character and makes you stand out from the crowd. Everyone else is "trying," but you could care less. If your shirt is stylish or unique - or if you've got a nice build - it stands out more than ever because it's so different than what everyone else is wearing.

Forgive me I'm talking out of my ass, and I'm sure most guys are going to get more mileage from slightly overdressing as opposed to under-dressing, but I've gotten to the point where I could care less what everyone else is wearing as long as I still look sharp (which is by no means a given on any random day haha).

[Windom Earle]

I think it comes down to just dressing well (i.e. good threads that compliment your build), whether that be a suit, casual attire, or anything in between, providing it suits the occasion and is congruent (as others have said) with your style.

Dressing more formally does not equal better. It just means you've calibrated your look to potentially be received better by a certain demographic and type of woman, but the rub is you also potentially take yourself out of the running with certain types than if you had've dressed down.

There is no "catch all" in the game, just the choices we make and the vibe we create.

[Irenicus]

Thanks for the further input folks, every comment has been taken in consideration. Especially from you Jariel

The suit Game will be ditched completely. I know that I have mentioned that before, but I will do so again. Although I feel nice (and powerful!), I will have to adapt to the market - a suit might be too intimidating to the girls, regardless of age brackets WIA mentioned. Probably intimidating the same way a 9 in a nice dress is to most guys.

(and of course I would not go to a club with a suit )

Considering all the info you shared, the things I did (going out with the aforementioned leather jacket for example),how the competition present themselves, and the girls lowering their heads when I am close, I can safely conclude that I did not went too far. I dress primarily to feel comfortable in my own skin and to be slightly more unique than the rest of the competition - impressing girls (8+) is lower priority, at laest for me.

Time for new conquests then. A productive year folks !

[WestIndianArchie]

You can keep business/formal wear in rotation, just dress it down.

[GlobalMan]

I think some are confusing "over dressed" with "dressed well". You should always aim to be dressed "well", whatever that calls for, being better dressed than the average guy can have a huge positive impact. However, you absolutely can be over dressed and it can and does limit you if you do so, depending on where you are located.

"Well dressed" doesn't necessarily mean a higher level of formality, it means just better put together with better style. For the vast majority of guys, wearing a suit as your daily outfit is not the appropriate choice, unless you live in Manhattan, London etc. Too many of the suit advocates fail to mention their location and/or that they only do it while going out at night etc.

Quite a few times I've been dressed far too well for the girls/situations I encounter, I've learned to moderate it better.

[WestIndianArchie]

This post needs pics.

WIA

[ksbms]

The easiest way to stand out is not to wear blue jeans and cheap sneakers.

And avoid cheap fast fashion brands like GAP, H&M, Topman, Zara which use lowly cotton and dyes and poor stitching. No need for Brioni or Zegna, even middle of the road brands like Boss, Dutti, Klein, especially during sales, will make a big difference.

Another problem with fast fashion brands is the fact these clothes, though cheaper, don't last long - which forces another round of shopping and isn't environmently friendly - I think people, especially girls with shopping frenzy during sales of cheap brands, underestimate the pollution dyes and thrown away clothes make.

Overall, there is incredible difference with higher quality threads and fabrics - not only the way they fit and how comfortably they make you feel, but also how they actually increase your confidence and how they reflect the light - it's a much richer visual experience for the perceiver. Ultimately, I think it's worth to get a set of bespoke shirts and trousers made from best Italian fabrics once it won't kill your wallet.

[redbeard]

(01-05-2016 02:46 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

And avoid cheap fast fashion brands like GAP, H&M, Topman, Zara which use lowly cotton and dyes and poor stitching.

Disagree, especially for younger guys.

Like jariel hit on, finding your style is an expensive venture and more complicated than putting on whatever clothes you find. "Fast fashion" allows guys to buy relatively cheap clothes, wear them out a few nights, and tinker with what their style is.

I know this because I've done it in the past year. My closet is filled with clothes that I've worn only a handful of times, clothes I bought because I was pushing the envelope and didn't like wearing. But - there are a few pieces I wear constantly that I wouldn't have tried if I had to spend $200 to commit to them.

[soup]

Overdressed would be anything that looks try hard. Men's fashion should fit, make the guy stand out from from the herd, and show or imply high value.