[Charles Martel]

Quote:

Anyone here who has been involved in a criminal case knows damn well the intense desire to just put the shit behind you ASAP even if you know you are innocent; knowing that dragging it out will cost more money and the system is so corrupt you could do significant time if you let things play out all the way to the end. The Hammond's lost their freedom for absolute bullshit but decided to suck it up and do some time to get on with their lives.

THEN the fuckin goddamn government AFTER the Hammond's do their time VOIDS the plea deal by claiming it doesn't exist and they must go back to prison and do 5 years for burning fires (as is par for the course in those parts when needed) in the middle of goddamn nowhere with no real damage to anyone or anything? Unless I am missing something here...

It is also routine for attorneys, including lazy defense attorneys, to scare the accused away from a trial and take the plea agreement.

They will say, "Look, if you go to trial and lose, the judge will give you 8 years (as example) of hard time. However, take the plea offer and you will only do 30 days and two years of probation"

Even if you are innocent, facing the reality of years in prison is daunting. Many a conviction is procured this way. I have little doubt that the Hammonds weighed exactly this situation, when deciding to take the plea.

[ms224]

Living out in the west there seems to be a lot of things that people don't realize about this place. Especially if you are out of the country.

Most of the population lives either on the eastern side of the US (basically east of I35, running through the middle of the country from Minneapolis to San Antonio) or on the west side of I5 (running down the west coast). In between its pretty sparse.

Once you drive past Kansas City on I70 its nothing but 300 miles of corn fields, then you get another 200 or so through Colorado until you hit Denver and the mountains. Thats a days drive on the highway with no major cities to encounter. Compare this to anywhere in Europe.

Colorado, New Mexico Utah and Arizona are all roughly the size of Germany with a fraction of the population. It gets very rural here real fast.

Most of the midwest was settled via homesteading. You come to Nebraska, plant your flag and if you put up a homestead after some time the feds gave you title to your 40 acres.

This didn't happen out west of the Rockies. The feds still own huge swaths of land out here, since these were territories originally. Part of this is because of the prevalence of ranching as opposed to actual farming. You paid for your square on the map, let loose your herd of cattle and came back to get them later. This still happens today. You drive outside the ski resorts and there is cattle gates and little herds all around.

You can go camp out there and shoot and fish etc.

The other huge thing out west is water rights. Here in Colorado its only in the last few years that its become legal to collect (a small!) amount of rain water. Most of this place is pretty much high desert and if you want to do anything , you need water. And who owns the water is a huge thing, and BLM owns a lot of land and water on it.

The gun control thing is a big deal out here too. Eastern snoobs telling people , hey you don't need a gun just call the cops.

Well if you live 30 mins outside the city and it takes 5mins just to drive up your driveway on a dry day and you might not have cell service , well you need a gun. Add to this the general distaste for coastal pansyism.

Instead of opening up land for people to use and making sure its not crapped upon, BLM has been doing things like this, restricting usage not just for ranching but other things, like 4x4 snowmobile use etc.

The EPA, for all their talk about global warming, fucked up a river here recently. Not like a little one either.

[url=http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/10/25/lovely-the-epa-spill-in-colorado-was-completely-preventable-n2070226][/url]

No one went to jail for that one.

TL;DR Pansy east coasters get cushy jobs with the feds and shit on people who want to live a rural lifestyle. Hilarity, does not ensue.

[Grodin]

Some of my more liberal acquaintances have objected that the land the locals are claiming is native american land, not white locals land. Ignoring other problems that I have with this logic, they fail to explain how this makes the west any different than the land east of the Dakotas.

In some ways the rural economy out west would be better off if the land was indeed in private ownership by native american individuals. In some ways, ANCSA has been a boon to the Alaskan economy. The natives are just as interested in making a living (surprise) as white people are and they are much more open to cooperating with private entities than the federal government is. If not for ANCSA, much more of Alaska would be owned by the bureau of land management.

[nomadicdude]

Among other things, the problem with these white extremists is they openly threaten violence against the government if any action is taken to remove them. That by itself is domestic terrorism. I don't care what your BS issue is, once you start threatening to kill ppl you are over the line and the FBI should take your ass down. You cannot have a civilization if every lunatic thinks they can do something like this every time they get butthurt about some purported indignity.

[nomadbrah]

(01-05-2016 07:22 PM)nomadicdude Wrote:  

Among other things, the problem with these white extremists is they openly threaten violence against the government if any action is taken to remove them. That by itself is domestic terrorism. I don't care what your BS issue is, once you start threatening to kill ppl you are over the line and the FBI should take your ass down. You cannot have a civilization if every lunatic thinks they can do something like this every time they get butthurt about some purported indignity.

That's hilarious considering that the US was founded by a violent revolution inspired by another revolution (France).

What's different with 'whites' as you put it, is that they do not like being subjugated.

This in contrast to the authoritarian regimes found anywhere but white Europe and America. Democracy was a European thing only, every single other country in the world was ruled by authocracy.

Democracies only came about because 'white extremists' marched right up to the King weapon in hand and demanded the right for self determination.

[BortimusPrime]

(01-05-2016 05:53 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

TL;DR Pansy east coasters get cushy jobs with the feds and shit on people who want to live a rural lifestyle. Hilarity, does not ensue.

In Oregon, while there are certainly large elements of non-native effete degenerates infecting the main cities (Portland due to hipsterlandia, Eugene due to college students), the people who end up fucking with rural Oregonians are most often native Oregonians who I'd term as PBS-people.

Anyone who's watched public broadcasting in Oregon will notice the sheer volume of time dedicated to local nature documentaries about the high desert area. Most popular are sage grouse and those weird grebes that run on the water for their mating ritual.

PBS-people are essentially liberals the grew up in Portland and later on in life decided they wanted to move out to the rural area for the nature crap, having watched all those nature documentaries. They're environmentalist fanatics, and they go nuts when they see land being used for resource production, even if it's renewable (timber farms, ranching). Since they're lefties, once they've moved out to the country they worm their way into government jobs, which are likely forest service, BLM, etc.

One element of the Hammond dispute with the BLM seems to be a personal campaign being led by a couple that run that Malheur refuge, they're the ones who got the feds to appeal to raise the Hammonds' sentencing. I'd bet a neckbeard's ransom in internet porn that their background is exactly what I've described as PBS-people.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

That's hilarious considering that the US was founded by a violent revolution inspired by another revolution (France).

American Revolution 1775-1783
French Revolution 1789-1799

[Surreyman]

(01-05-2016 09:04 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:

That's hilarious considering that the US was founded by a violent revolution inspired by another revolution (France).

American Revolution 1775-1783
French Revolution 1789-1799

People get confused because France helped the American Revolution.

[Surreyman]

(01-05-2016 07:32 PM)nomadbrah Wrote:  

What's different with 'whites' as you put it, is that they do not like being subjugated.

This is the cornerstone of European/western culture, and yet foreign people very rarely understand or even notice.

[Hades]

Native American protesters occupied Alcatraz for almost two years back in 1969.

Bring this up to anybody you know whining about white privilege or any such nonsense. The fact remains that if the federal building is basically worthless (desolate BLM outpost, defunct prison), their hands are more or less tied and they want to do everything to avoid a media nightmare.

[Ingocnito]

They're still there at the facility in Oregon as it appears.

I think what many fence sitters on this incident don't understand, is that it would appear the gov't is taking away private land, as well as public land that citizens had access to for their livelihood for years.

But what they're doing it for - according to many rumors floating around - is for mining of uranium, arsenic, mercury, and other resources. Who mines minerals? Private industry, NOT governments.. governments just buy those commodities.

So it's very likely an inside job, a politician is doing favors to fill their coffers at the expense of the little guy, using gov't agencies and "wildlife preservation" as the excuse for the cover up. In this case.

This is isn't a new concept, yet, with the massive disapproval of this presidency, and Obama's Executive Order trigger finger, and the otherall brokenness of this gov't (just the debt alone is fraudulent to its citizens), someone, somewhere, has to make a stand. And who better than the Good Ole Boys?

This is a case where I don't think anyone will ever know the complete truth, all I know is it smells like shit.

[Pacesetter20]

UPDATE: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...d-off.html

Quote:

Ammon Bundy has been arrested and his brother Ryan was wounded in a shoot-out with FBI officers that left one of their militiamen dead, reports claim.

It is the climax of a tense stand-off between federal agents and the activists more than three weeks after they took over a government building in Burns, Oregon, to protest two ranchers being jailed.

They were driving to a community meeting with eight other activists on Tuesday afternoon when they were stopped by traffic cops, according KATU.

Within minutes, shots were fired, wounding Ryan Bundy and killing an unidentified militiaman.

It is not clear who opened fire first.

I bet a pretty penny if the militiamen fired first, that would have been the headline and plastered all over the news, so I can only assume with such a vague statement that the Feds fired first. If this is true, look for the dashcams to have been malfunctioning or not turned on.

[JacksonRev]

If the militiamen fired first they'd all be dead.

[Disco_Volante]

Will be in prison the rest of their lives, government will make an example out of them.

If you cross that line you have to be willing to go down shooting until you die. No way you'll get a fair trial or any objective trial from a Judge on the government payroll.
Anyone who thinks 'well maybe they'll get a good attorney'.... it doesn't matter. Look at that court indicting the Planned Parenthood videographers. Government will crack down hard on anyone who crosses their agenda.

You have to pick your battle carefully and ask yourself what you're willing to die for BEFORE you get into it. If you waver in a gray area and surrender, you're fucked in prison.

[spokepoker]

So.... there's still 32 guys at the HQ?

[Ingocnito]

FBI killed someone and arrested the rest looks like. Fuccck.

[Captainstabbin]

#Handsupdontshoot #Americanlivesmatter #rememberrubyridge #thetruthaboutwaco

Strange that the media isn't as sympathetic when it's white people being shot.

[Foolsgo1d]

Do American law enforcement know anything else other than escalation?

[spokepoker]

I think it was a straight up ambush as they were leaving the FBI/LEO meeting. They left cause they wanted the fbi guy to debate with them in front of media, he didn't want to, and instead had them taken out down the road.
There's still guys at the HQ. In before they get taken out too, because they "fired first on authorities".

[Captainstabbin]

(01-27-2016 05:49 PM)spokepoker Wrote:  

I think it was a straight up ambush as they were leaving the FBI/LEO meeting. They left cause they wanted the fbi guy to debate with them in front of media, he didn't want to, and instead had them taken out down the road.
There's still guys at the HQ. In before they get taken out too, because they "fired first on authorities".

Maybe they'll burn the place down and claim the protesters did it to themselves.

#thetruthaboutwaco

[Latinopan]

(01-05-2016 06:27 PM)Grodin Wrote:  

Some of my more liberal acquaintances have objected that the land the locals are claiming is native american land, not white locals land. Ignoring other problems that I have with this logic, they fail to explain how this makes the west any different than the land east of the Dakotas.

In some ways the rural economy out west would be better off if the land was indeed in private ownership by native american individuals. In some ways, ANCSA has been a boon to the Alaskan economy. The natives are just as interested in making a living (surprise) as white people are and they are much more open to cooperating with private entities than the federal government is. If not for ANCSA, much more of Alaska would be owned by the bureau of land management.

This is something that liberals progressive are really pathetic, they somehow believe that Native Americans are a bunch of people living in the woods, sitting around a bonfire singing, with not interest in making good money, like they are a bunch of hippies, the luxury hotels and casinos in Native American land differ.

(01-08-2016 07:45 PM)Ingocnito Wrote:  

They're still there at the facility in Oregon as it appears.

I think what many fence sitters on this incident don't understand, is that it would appear the gov't is taking away private land, as well as public land that citizens had access to for their livelihood for years.

But what they're doing it for - according to many rumors floating around - is for mining of uranium, arsenic, mercury, and other resources. Who mines minerals? Private industry, NOT governments.. governments just buy those commodities.

So it's very likely an inside job, a politician is doing favors to fill their coffers at the expense of the little guy, using gov't agencies and "wildlife preservation" as the excuse for the cover up. In this case.

This is isn't a new concept, yet, with the massive disapproval of this presidency, and Obama's Executive Order trigger finger, and the otherall brokenness of this gov't (just the debt alone is fraudulent to its citizens), someone, somewhere, has to make a stand. And who better than the Good Ole Boys?

This is a case where I don't think anyone will ever know the complete truth, all I know is it smells like shit.

The Bundy range case had a lot to do with a Chinese company , and his son was the one doing the talking with the company, they did bring the excuse that everything was about protecting turtles in the area, but it was about a Chinese company taking the land.
http://www.infowars.com/breaking-sen-har...ndy-ranch/

[Ingocnito]

[Quintus Curtius]

(01-05-2016 05:53 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

Living out in the west there seems to be a lot of things that people don't realize about this place. Especially if you are out of the country.

Most of the population lives either on the eastern side of the US (basically east of I35, running through the middle of the country from Minneapolis to San Antonio) or on the west side of I5 (running down the west coast). In between its pretty sparse.

Once you drive past Kansas City on I70 its nothing but 300 miles of corn fields, then you get another 200 or so through Colorado until you hit Denver and the mountains. Thats a days drive on the highway with no major cities to encounter. Compare this to anywhere in Europe.

Colorado, New Mexico Utah and Arizona are all roughly the size of Germany with a fraction of the population. It gets very rural here real fast.

Most of the midwest was settled via homesteading. You come to Nebraska, plant your flag and if you put up a homestead after some time the feds gave you title to your 40 acres.

This didn't happen out west of the Rockies. The feds still own huge swaths of land out here, since these were territories originally. Part of this is because of the prevalence of ranching as opposed to actual farming. You paid for your square on the map, let loose your herd of cattle and came back to get them later. This still happens today. You drive outside the ski resorts and there is cattle gates and little herds all around.

You can go camp out there and shoot and fish etc.

The other huge thing out west is water rights. Here in Colorado its only in the last few years that its become legal to collect (a small!) amount of rain water. Most of this place is pretty much high desert and if you want to do anything , you need water. And who owns the water is a huge thing, and BLM owns a lot of land and water on it.

The gun control thing is a big deal out here too. Eastern snoobs telling people , hey you don't need a gun just call the cops.

Well if you live 30 mins outside the city and it takes 5mins just to drive up your driveway on a dry day and you might not have cell service , well you need a gun. Add to this the general distaste for coastal pansyism.

Instead of opening up land for people to use and making sure its not crapped upon, BLM has been doing things like this, restricting usage not just for ranching but other things, like 4x4 snowmobile use etc.

The EPA, for all their talk about global warming, fucked up a river here recently. Not like a little one either.

[url=http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/10/25/lovely-the-epa-spill-in-colorado-was-completely-preventable-n2070226][/url]

No one went to jail for that one.

TL;DR Pansy east coasters get cushy jobs with the feds and shit on people who want to live a rural lifestyle. Hilarity, does not ensue.

Great comment, ms224.

The government (mostly state government) in Michigan poisoned the entire water supply for a whole city and (so far) no one has been criminally prosecuted for negligence.

Unbelievable.

The entire financial establishment peddles fraud and corruption for 20 years and destroys the economy in 2009 and feds barely do anything.

Yet a tiny group of guys in cowboy hats squats in an empty building in the middle of nowhere, just to be heard, and they get laser sights on their foreheads from law enforcement.

Oh, yeah...I forgot.

"They should have called their legislators."

Yeah, right.

[Latinopan]

(01-27-2016 11:35 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  

(01-05-2016 05:53 PM)ms224 Wrote:  

Living out in the west there seems to be a lot of things that people don't realize about this place. Especially if you are out of the country.

Most of the population lives either on the eastern side of the US (basically east of I35, running through the middle of the country from Minneapolis to San Antonio) or on the west side of I5 (running down the west coast). In between its pretty sparse.

Once you drive past Kansas City on I70 its nothing but 300 miles of corn fields, then you get another 200 or so through Colorado until you hit Denver and the mountains. Thats a days drive on the highway with no major cities to encounter. Compare this to anywhere in Europe.

Colorado, New Mexico Utah and Arizona are all roughly the size of Germany with a fraction of the population. It gets very rural here real fast.

Most of the midwest was settled via homesteading. You come to Nebraska, plant your flag and if you put up a homestead after some time the feds gave you title to your 40 acres.

This didn't happen out west of the Rockies. The feds still own huge swaths of land out here, since these were territories originally. Part of this is because of the prevalence of ranching as opposed to actual farming. You paid for your square on the map, let loose your herd of cattle and came back to get them later. This still happens today. You drive outside the ski resorts and there is cattle gates and little herds all around.

You can go camp out there and shoot and fish etc.

The other huge thing out west is water rights. Here in Colorado its only in the last few years that its become legal to collect (a small!) amount of rain water. Most of this place is pretty much high desert and if you want to do anything , you need water. And who owns the water is a huge thing, and BLM owns a lot of land and water on it.

The gun control thing is a big deal out here too. Eastern snoobs telling people , hey you don't need a gun just call the cops.

Well if you live 30 mins outside the city and it takes 5mins just to drive up your driveway on a dry day and you might not have cell service , well you need a gun. Add to this the general distaste for coastal pansyism.

Instead of opening up land for people to use and making sure its not crapped upon, BLM has been doing things like this, restricting usage not just for ranching but other things, like 4x4 snowmobile use etc.

The EPA, for all their talk about global warming, fucked up a river here recently. Not like a little one either.

[url=http://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattvespa/2015/10/25/lovely-the-epa-spill-in-colorado-was-completely-preventable-n2070226][/url]

No one went to jail for that one.

TL;DR Pansy east coasters get cushy jobs with the feds and shit on people who want to live a rural lifestyle. Hilarity, does not ensue.

Great comment, ms224.

The government (mostly state government) in Michigan poisoned the entire water supply for a whole city and (so far) no one has been criminally prosecuted for negligence.

Unbelievable.

The entire financial establishment peddles fraud and corruption for 20 years and destroys the economy in 2009 and feds barely do anything.

Yet a tiny group of guys in cowboy hats squats in an empty building in the middle of nowhere, just to be heard, and they get laser sights on their foreheads from law enforcement.

Oh, yeah...I forgot.

"They should have called their legislators."

Yeah, right.

The entire state of California can refuse to cooperate with immigration agency to deport illegals aliens, a country clerk refuses to sign a homosexual marriage license and she goes to jail while the entire media go shit crazy.

[spokepoker]

Just saw on the news that the protesters have started packing up and leaving, Amon had his lawyer plead them to leave on air, supposedly -not sure if that really was his lawyer, but I guess everything is over now with a few deaths.