[Robert Plant]

I took a 5 week trip this summer to The Middle East and SE Asia. I also went to Europe but was with a girlfriend. I got 10 notches and 4 flags without too much trouble. I probably could have doubled the notch number but mini-relationships in the Philippines kept my numbers down.

Since coming back to the States, I have been disappointed. I haven’t done horribly (3 notches in 2.5 months including a very hot 24 year old club girl). But notches in the States are just harder for me to get.

In Western Europe and SE Asia, it is easy for me. Women like me for my handsomeness, being in shape and being a sincere yet masculine and sexual guy. I don’t want this to turn into a rant against American women but do want to highlight some differences I’ve noticed:

1. Handsome is not as important to American women as other factors. In fact, it can hurt you if your number is above theirs. After weight lifting for a few months, I would say I'm closer to an 8 than a 7. When I approach especially at night, I get a much warmer reception from 7.5s and above than girls in the 5.5-7.5 range. These lower range girls also seem insecure and dependent on their friends. They are probably afraid of being pumped and dumped by a hotter guy.

2. At least where I live in Southern California, money and social status are initially as important to a lot of women as looks and personality. I think this also has to do with the economy improving. A year ago women thought it was was great that I had a middle class job. I’ve now been on 4 online dates in a row where my job instantly disqualified me.

3. Being a sarcastic, arrogant ass can work with a lot of American women. However women from other countries will think you are just an ass. I am a very masculine, confident guy who is also very dominant sexually but am not an asshole. This hurts me in the states especially with night game. Ironically the other night I was going very well with a tall, hot Swedish student at a club. I negged her with something that would have worked with an American girl. She almost immediately excused herself to the bathroom.

4. Age is a HUGE factor for American girls. American women think a 40 year old dating a 25 year old is really creepy. For the record it's really not. Some of them really like older guys but their social programming gets in the way. Outside the U.S., Canada and probably Australia, a 25 year old and 40 year old dating would not even raise an eyebrow.

5. American women over the age of about 33 tend to have even more hangups than women in their 20s. Having said that, they can also be much more in touch with their sexuality and be much more intelligent and interesting to talk with.

6. American women tend to be really uptight about sex. In Europe and especially certain parts of SE Asia, if a woman likes you, she will have sex with you. In the U.S. if she likes you, there will probably be a bunch of shit tests and even if you short circuit these, she is likely to change her mind at any moment.

Overall, based on the forum members I've met who are mostly good looking, in shape and good guys, adjusting back to American game is probably much harder than adjusting to European or SE Asian game. Looks and positive attitude just don't seem to be valued as highly by American women as they are by women in these other places.

[blacknwhitespade]

You're not alone. Whenever I've gone abroad, I've gotten better responses from women. Even in airports. Made a connecting flight through Mexico City last week. Yep, got pleasantly checked out by more than a few women there.

[Mr. Brightside]

I dunno, I think most people would agree with me in that getting notches with Western European women is more difficult than with the millions of sloots in The US. Also, you don't have the appeal of being "different" over here. What city are you in?

[Robert Plant]

In the States I'm in Southern California. In Europe, I've spent a lot of time in Iceland, Portugal and Spain. It has always been way easier for me there. Perhaps it's just my particular look which women describe as classic. Even if it weren't easier to get notches though, I like the women better in Western Europe. They're less full of shit.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(11-11-2015 12:59 PM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

In the States I'm in Southern California. In Europe, I've spent a lot of time in Iceland, Portugal and Spain. It has always been way easier for me there. Perhaps it's just my particular look which women describe as classic. Even if it weren't easier to get notches though, I like the women better in Western Europe. They're less full of shit.

Given your aversion to Ameriskanks, I'd be fascinated to hear your judgement on British lizards.

[iknowexactly]

I may be back there soon, I'm over 50, and I just can't.... I can't....

The horror. The horror.

[Robert Plant]

Re: Feldeinsamkeit

I actually like American women in a lot of ways, but for me they have always just been a tough nut to crack.

A few weeks ago I would have said British women are just as difficult but about 2 weeks ago I had an amazing 10 day mini-relationship with a very pretty English woman passing through my city. It was one of the best experiences I've ever had. We connected on a very deep level. Unfortunately when she found out I wouldn't be able to visit her in the next couple of months she cried and told me for her own emotional well being that we would need to stop talking. I haven't tried any communication since. Assuming that's indicative of British women, I would say they have their own set of issues but they do seem more feminine and more capable of opening their hearts than most American women.

[Merenguero]

(11-11-2015 12:59 PM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

In the States I'm in Southern California. In Europe, I've spent a lot of time in Iceland, Portugal and Spain. It has always been way easier for me there. Perhaps it's just my particular look which women describe as classic. Even if it weren't easier to get notches though, I like the women better in Western Europe. They're less full of shit.

Do you mostly, or completely, stick to Southern California when you are in the United States? If so, I may be able to understand your post. A lot of guys don't do well in Southern California, just like a lot of guys don't do well in Miami. If you go all over the United States, i.e. New York and the Southeast, and you do better in Spain and Portugal than you do there, I am baffled.

[Menace]

Why don't you focus on non-American women? FOBs. California is full of Asians, for example.

[Robert Plant]

Re: Merenguero

I am almost always in Southern California when I'm in the States. Since I found game about a year and a half ago, I have noticed it seems easier in other regions. Also, I'm not saying its harder to have sex here than in Spain or Portugal. It's just harder to get quality women here looks and personality wise than in Western Europe. Finally, the combination of tall and handsome is common here. In Spain and Portugal its rare.

[Robert Plant]

Re: Menace

That is exactly what I am starting to do. In fact, I met a sweet Japanese one yesterday

[Menace]

(11-11-2015 03:09 PM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

Re: Menace

That is exactly what I am starting to do. In fact, I met a sweet Japanese one yesterday

Good stuff, happy to hear it. Especially if you live in an area with international presence, it's entirely possible to never date or even bang an American girl. This is how I survive in DC.

[Feldeinsamkeit]

(11-11-2015 02:07 PM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

Re: Feldeinsamkeit

I actually like American women in a lot of ways, but for me they have always just been a tough nut to crack.

A few weeks ago I would have said British women are just as difficult but about 2 weeks ago I had an amazing 10 day mini-relationship with a very pretty English woman passing through my city. It was one of the best experiences I've ever had. We connected on a very deep level. Unfortunately when she found out I wouldn't be able to visit her in the next couple of months she cried and told me for her own emotional well being that we would need to stop talking. I haven't tried any communication since. Assuming that's indicative of British women, I would say they have their own set of issues but they do seem more feminine and more capable of opening their hearts than most American women.

From my experience, though, English women seem to be on average somewhat less abrasive and less culturally Marxist than their North American sisters, although I would say that their pronounced narcissism, obsession with celebrity, materialism, anti-intellectualism and insular mindset bordering on utter solipsism, not to mention their deep-seated misandry masquerading as feminism, puts them most assuredly in the same ballpark.

[samsamsam]

Relevant thread-46927.html

I feel you OP.

[Slay it Forward]

Gaming at home after returning from a SEA, EE or LA trip is a kick in the junk. One of my solutions has been to hit up foreign girls on Meetup.com. There are loads of meetup groups like 'New to Whatever City' or 'English Language Exchange'. Just copy paste a stock message to a bunch of foreign birds in those groups and see who takes the bait.

I've been dating a big titted Colombian and have a few Moldovians on my radar from doing exactly that.

[Princeton]

I don't think you're imagining things. In my experience, European girls tend to be more humanist and able to evaluate men on their individual merits (is he smart, is he good-looking, etc.)

Many American girls, on the other hand, have a hard time evaluating an individual man in a vacuum. They want to know his social standing, what parties he can take her to, his connections, lifestyle, etc. Whereas the average Western European chick tends to see a man as an individual, the American chick sees him as a vehicle for accessing excitement or a lifestyle that her friends will envy. It's soulless.

I've found European women to be much more secure and independent thinkers and Americans to be stuck in a perpetual state of adolescence where things like popularity, the car you drive and whether or not her friends think someone is "cool" having outsized influence on their decision making.

(Of course you'll find insecure European girls, golddiggers, etc. but the norm is different from a place like Southern California which is socially like a big High School.)

[Robert Plant]

Fantastic post Princeton! I am giving you a rep point for it.

Indeed I do feel like many American women are at a high school level of maturity, especially in Southern California. Although I am originally from the East Coast, I have been here for a while now so I wonder if it is as bad in other parts of the country?

[Off The Reservation]

(11-11-2015 11:34 AM)Robert Plant Wrote:  

I took a 5 week trip this summer to The Middle East and SE Asia. I also went to Europe but was with a girlfriend. I got 10 notches and 4 flags without too much trouble. I probably could have doubled the notch number but mini-relationships in the Philippines kept my numbers down.

Since coming back to the States, I have been disappointed. I haven’t done horribly (3 notches in 2.5 months including a very hot 24 year old club girl). But notches in the States are just harder for me to get.

In Western Europe and SE Asia, it is easy for me. Women like me for my handsomeness, being in shape and being a sincere yet masculine and sexual guy. I don’t want this to turn into a rant against American women but do want to highlight some differences I’ve noticed:

1. Handsome is not as important to American women as other factors. In fact, it can hurt you if your number is above theirs. After weight lifting for a few months, I would say I'm closer to an 8 than a 7. When I approach especially at night, I get a much warmer reception from 7.5s and above than girls in the 5.5-7.5 range. These lower range girls also seem insecure and dependent on their friends. They are probably afraid of being pumped and dumped by a hotter guy.

2. At least where I live in Southern California, money and social status are initially as important to a lot of women as looks and personality. I think this also has to do with the economy improving. A year ago women thought it was was great that I had a middle class job. I’ve now been on 4 online dates in a row where my job instantly disqualified me.

3. Being a sarcastic, arrogant ass can work with a lot of American women. However women from other countries will think you are just an ass. I am a very masculine, confident guy who is also very dominant sexually but am not an asshole. This hurts me in the states especially with night game. Ironically the other night I was going very well with a tall, hot Swedish student at a club. I negged her with something that would have worked with an American girl. She almost immediately excused herself to the bathroom.

4. Age is a HUGE factor for American girls. American women think a 40 year old dating a 25 year old is really creepy. For the record it's really not. Some of them really like older guys but their social programming gets in the way. Outside the U.S., Canada and probably Australia, a 25 year old and 40 year old dating would not even raise an eyebrow.

5. American women over the age of about 33 tend to have even more hangups than women in their 20s. Having said that, they can also be much more in touch with their sexuality and be much more intelligent and interesting to talk with.

6. American women tend to be really uptight about sex. In Europe and especially certain parts of SE Asia, if a woman likes you, she will have sex with you. In the U.S. if she likes you, there will probably be a bunch of shit tests and even if you short circuit these, she is likely to change her mind at any moment.

Overall, based on the forum members I've met who are mostly good looking, in shape and good guys, adjusting back to American game is probably much harder than adjusting to European or SE Asian game. Looks and positive attitude just don't seem to be valued as highly by American women as they are by women in these other places.

All well said. And the realizations like this get much worse and more intense when you spend years outside the US instead of months.

I have reduced the average American girl down to this: what will my friends think.

[ChickenLover9T9]

RP, you have identified a good number of things I noticed as well. US girls were friendly, but also had a lot of hangups, fears and general free-floating neuroses that women from non-Anglo countries don't have or have a lot less of. Sometimes women from the US are portrayed as being entitled and picky in the sense of "high self-esteem = I am better than you", but more often the case I have found that (even fairly attractive) US women run scared of an attractive, intelligent man and prefer to go with someone who will give her some of what she needs in a partner but primarily a man who makes her feel better about herself. Sometimes a man who is superior just makes the neurosis of the Anglo girls worse. Exceptions are very famous men where a US woman will gladly push through her hangups and lose her pride just for the "feeling" of "I attracted Lil Wayne [therefore I must be special and a great person]".

Most men get in the "game" for the strange; re-evaluate "targets" if you find you succeed better if you are forced to take on the role of de facto therapist. Unfortunately that means an ever increasing number in the US/UK/CA/AU. By the way there are neurotic uptight women everywhere, though, Germany being a great example. A certain % of women are incurably shy and rigid.

These are indeed difficult "nuts to crack". The question is: are the nuts worth cracking?

[Fury]

Wow. Princeton, you are exactly right about European girls leaning towards being humanist and acknowledging individual merits. In the past year I have been living in Europe, I have had more lays than the 23 aggregate years I have spent living in the US. I honestly can't imagine going back as a single man, it would be too depressing. I am working on trying to find gainful employment on this side of the world so I can continue living the good life.

[GlobalMan]

If you want acceptable American women you have to stay far away from the coasts. The closer American girls get to sea water the more they degrade into just an apparatus for holding a selfie stick.

There are still some great American women left, raised the "right" way, with good genes. MN and WI are your best bets.

[Kale_anonymous]

(11-12-2015 04:03 AM)Fury Wrote:  

Wow. Princeton, you are exactly right about European girls leaning towards being humanist and acknowledging individual merits. In the past year I have been living in Europe, I have had more lays than the 23 aggregate years I have spent living in the US. I honestly can't imagine going back as a single man, it would be too depressing. I am working on trying to find gainful employment on this side of the world so I can continue living the good life.

what part of europe if I may ask?

[Menace]

A relevant post from Maverick Traveller:

Quote:

Most Westerners may not be aware of this, but sarcasm isn’t heavily used outside America (and other Anglo-Saxon countries). I’m referring to both flirting and regular interactions. When I lived in Brazil, I don’t remember a single instance where I was flirting with a Brazilian woman, and she started making sarcastic comments in an attempt to shame or embarrass me. If I said something that she didn’t like like a badly calibrated tease, she would simply turn around and leave. These women had a healthy level of self-esteem and would never jump into a sparring match with someone who’d just insulted them, either directly or indirectly.

Quote:

One of the biggest—perhaps even the biggest—advantages of traveling and living in various countries around the world is that your notion of what’s “normal” changes. When I lived in America, I grew up seducing New York women via “ball busting” and verbal sparring. There was always a tussle for dominance and the person who displayed their affection first was deemed weak and lost the battle. There are various “rules” which dictate when or who should call the other person (i.e., waiting 3 days to call after the first date, etc.).

So, it’s no surprise that I’ve always thought that it was completely “normal” to treat each interaction with a potential mate as a “sparring match” where the less emotions you show, the better your chances for “victory.”

Full post: https://maverickmademan.com/why-ukrainia...e-sarcasm/

I find the notion that money, status, or cars have any effect on American girls in big cities interesting. In my experience, it has never mattered. While women from other cultures value high paying jobs, here it's just whatever.

However, I'm out of the loop when it comes to American girls, so who knows.

[cowboy]

Readjusting to the states was also very difficult for me. What I miss the most is going out and having amazing conversations with attractive, intelligent, sweet girls. While I was in Europe this constantly happened on trains, on the bus, a café, or at a disco. I have never been one to run "asshole game" instead I seized the initiative when I had an opportunity. By being myself I instantly clicked with so many girls. Sure there were bitches and drama as there can be anywhere in the world but after 4 yrs. abroad I was very unprepared for what awaited me when I returned to the US. I was in my 20s when I left and when I returned I was in my 30s. This made for a very strange transition. In the beginning I was in total denial then I had to accept the current social trends in the US.

If you are fit, smart, alpha type guy with good social circles, with a high tolerance for bullshit/drama you can run through American sluts at an amazing rate. Of course this depends on your location (NYC vs. South Dakota). I really miss those interactions of substance whether it was an LTR or a short fling. At 35 yrs. of age my bullshit tolerance is thinning out. This factor is pulling me overseas more and more. I am tired of the bullshit games and the competition with social media, Iphones, or the girl's social circle. Different guys do better in different environments. It is the way it is. I feel in Europe my international experience, personality, education, drive to be successful were admired and respected by girls I interacted with. However, with American girls it is about instant social circle and entertainment. Even with the American female mentality infecting other countries I have never quit felt the shallow vibe from other women in quit the same magnitude that I have felt from the American female.

[Dusty]

(11-11-2015 11:29 PM)Princeton Wrote:  

I don't think you're imagining things. In my experience, European girls tend to be more humanist and able to evaluate men on their individual merits (is he smart, is he good-looking, etc.)

Many American girls, on the other hand, have a hard time evaluating an individual man in a vacuum. They want to know his social standing, what parties he can take her to, his connections, lifestyle, etc. Whereas the average Western European chick tends to see a man as an individual, the American chick sees him as a vehicle for accessing excitement or a lifestyle that her friends will envy. It's soulless.

I've found European women to be much more secure and independent thinkers and Americans to be stuck in a perpetual state of adolescence where things like popularity, the car you drive and whether or not her friends think someone is "cool" having outsized influence on their decision making.

(Of course you'll find insecure European girls, golddiggers, etc. but the norm is different from a place like Southern California which is socially like a big High School.)

Agreed, and this makes it very difficult for us older cats to date a younger girl in the states. It's socially verboten for there to be a large age gap in the US, unless you meet a FOB who doesn't run in American social citcles.

Whereas in many other countries, such as SEA, the age gap means close to nothing.

I think the physical attraction of younger girls towards an older guy may be just as common in Americans as in it is among Pinays, but the social barrier is a bridge to far.