[thegmanifesto]

(06-22-2011 07:38 PM)LostGringo Wrote:  

(06-22-2011 07:13 PM)Hokie30 Wrote:  

(06-22-2011 05:37 PM)LostGringo Wrote:  

For me Riga was a disappointment - and that was 8 years ago before the discount airlines brought in the amateur hordes.

When the Italians show up, its time to move on.......just look at what became of Prague and now Kiev.

Well you should think of hitting up some 2nd tier cities (not in Latvia cause it doesn't really have any) in the Baltics especially in Lithuania, cities like Kaunas and Klaipeda. A westerner with good game and stylish clothes would kill it there! I constantly keep hearing from my female cousins about the lack of white collar guys there who have style and spit good verbal game. Shoot, one of my cousins looks like a model and is settling down with a skinny, blue collar Brit just because he made it a point to visit her small town as a "tourist" and approach her.

I'm all ears. Why don't you give us the story, along with details, about how it all went down. The where/what/when along with a pic of your cousin and her skinny brit, so we can all get an honest assessment of a "Baltic Connection"

Agreed.

Break this down.

I think it is possible, and in my "things I would do different" I mentioned that 2nd tier cities would be what I would do.

Brian -

I think you are dead on.

" I bet if you actually lived there for a month or more, day gamed at places locals go like gyms, and developed some kind of social circle you could probably still clean up. "

I don't doubt it at all.

The issue then becomes, where couldn't you do that exact same plan?

I mean, sure the girls in Latvia are insanely hot, but unless you really like those dumplings they have and just can't get enough of Latvian Culture, (in my book) what is the point?

[Brian]

@G - I guess the response would be two parts 1) More smokin chicks per capita then possibly anywhere else, and 2) the average guy could do better there because he is different then the rest of the locals. I've never been there before but I would venture to say cleaning up in a place like Riga would be great, and a little easier to do then somewhere like LA or Miami for the American who isnt an A list celebrity or athlete. But keep in mind I've never been.

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(06-22-2011 06:59 AM)Mr.GM Wrote:  

But I'm not sure if a tiny place like Riga can take this influx and still be a good place to go.I was thinking about going to Riga if I have the money and the time during my Eurotrip but now I'm thinking about scratching it off my list .

Don't give up on your Riga trip. First of all, there are guys on this forum that would really appreciate your input and data on Riga. Secondly, and more importantly, I don't think those few Italian tourists are able to correct a nationwide problem From what the reports show, there is a chronic man shortage problem. A few thousand tourists isn't going to correct that. Also, you game has got to be so much more advanced than those clowns. They pretty much cancel themselves out.

[Brian]

but the man shortage isnt going to be solved by tourists on a 3 day vacation and the girls know that. if you lived there you would do well but those girls looking for a husband aren't going to be banging the guy there for 3 days.

[Urban Renaissance Man]

(06-23-2011 03:11 PM)Brian Wrote:  

but the man shortage isnt going to be solved by tourists on a 3 day vacation and the girls know that. if you lived there you would do well but those girls looking for a husband aren't going to be banging the guy there for 3 days.

Then you lie and say you're going to be there longer. Even if she knows you're staying in a hotel, tell her your job has booked it for you on a housing allowance for a month, which gives you time to locate a permenant dwelling.

[Brian]

(06-23-2011 03:39 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  

(06-23-2011 03:11 PM)Brian Wrote:  

but the man shortage isnt going to be solved by tourists on a 3 day vacation and the girls know that. if you lived there you would do well but those girls looking for a husband aren't going to be banging the guy there for 3 days.

Then you lie and say you're going to be there longer. Even if she knows you're staying in a hotel, tell her your job has booked it for you on a housing allowance for a month, which gives you time to locate a permenant dwelling.

You can do this but you better have your story straight. You will get the questioned to the point you feel like you are being interrogated.

[Mr.GM]

(06-23-2011 06:38 PM)Brian Wrote:  

(06-23-2011 03:39 PM)Urban Renaissance Man Wrote:  

(06-23-2011 03:11 PM)Brian Wrote:  

but the man shortage isnt going to be solved by tourists on a 3 day vacation and the girls know that. if you lived there you would do well but those girls looking for a husband aren't going to be banging the guy there for 3 days.

Then you lie and say you're going to be there longer. Even if she knows you're staying in a hotel, tell her your job has booked it for you on a housing allowance for a month, which gives you time to locate a permenant dwelling.

You can do this but you better have your story straight. You will get the questioned to the point you feel like you are being interrogated.

It seems that this storyline works more if you are rolling solo. But how safe is to roll dolo in Riga and other EE spots if you are not the Big & Strong type? Don't wanna get Karate Chopped by Russian thughs (i.e G Manisfesto)

[Brian]

i've never been to Riga specifically, but in all of my EE experiences if you mind your business they mind theirs.

[Peoloom]

(06-22-2011 05:31 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

There are just so many conflicting reports out there. I also wonder sometimes if people say they "killed it" there, because you are supposed to "kill it" there. People don't want to admit that they had a hard time.

This x 100. It's some stupid macho bullshit. Anyone who says they "killed it" in Tallinn, Riga, Budapest, or Vilnius on a 3-day stint is lying. There are meat-market type bars in all of these cities, of course, but the girls that go there are in the 3-4 range and they go out just about every night.

[Hooligan Harry]

Either they are lying or they are doing hookers. If you have a social circle built from previous trips its possible, but going in cold? You might get laid, but I doubt you are going to kill it.

Reminds me of the first time I went to a club called Night Flight in Moscow. This was all the way back in late 90's, although its still open I think. I went there with expats who swore blind that its full of hot Russian women looking to get laid by foreign men, and they were not passport hunting for a change (which made life very easy those days I must say )

By the time the third woman I spoke to quoted time to the dollar value, I knew exactly why they were killing it there.

[Entropy4]

Amen to this discussion guys.

I've been wondering the same thing for quite a while but have never felt comfortable saying something. But I get the same exact feeling, especially the more I visit some of these places. I'm sure guys are getting laid, but sometimes it just makes no sense how it's happening once your boots land on the ground there. Won't name names, but some seem to be more guilty than others. It seems in many of these places, there are multiple ways guys are "killing it."

1) Go to prostitutes or shore the shitty, ugly prostitutes for free.
2) Go to the shitty tourist bars, and pick up a sloppy 5 or 6 who is excited to practice her English. Dating sites and/or Couchsurfing work this way too. (Full disclosure: I've done this a number of times for easy flags, but I have never bragged about it and would never refer to this as "killing it.")
3) Go to the high end clubs where the girls are 50% hotter than the girls anywhere in the US and suffer through 15-20 rejections just to get with one really hot girl.

#1 is doable anywhere and is not only easy, it's kind of sad and pathetic. #2 requires game at least, but seriously, why even travel? You can find foreign girls in normal bars in most big US cities who are just as easy. #3 is where the skill and effort is. It's also just about impossible to do on a three-day trip. You need 1-2 weeks MINIMUM if you're going to bang the hottest girls a city has to offer (which in EE, is scorching hot). To "kill it" in any of these places, you'd need a month or two probably.

As for the whole saying, "I'm here on business," even though you're there for two days. Yeah, good luck with that. What I've noticed about EE girls is that most of them expect 1-2 dates before they sleep with you. Almost all of my lays in Europe have happened this way. Maybe I could be gaming them better, but I think many of these girls, if they hear, "I'm in town for three months," their first thought isn't going to be, "Oh cool, I can fuck him now," it's going to be, "Oh, my new American boyfriend, let's go on some dates this week!"

The more I travel around, the more I realize that if you truly want to tap into the quality anywhere, you need minimum two weeks and preferably a month or more. I'm finding it harder and harder to take any guy seriously who pops through a town for 2-3 days and says he "killed it" there, unless he speaks the local language, or unless that town is in the 3rd world... in which case, anybody who's white could kill it there too, and it's kind of pointless to talk about.

Granted, sometimes people just get lucky. I got laid twice in my first week in BsAs off cold approach and had no idea the place was so hard until I went back a year later. But if you travel enough, you can start to tell when you're getting lucky and when your hard work is paying off.

[Roosh]

Quote:

What I've noticed about EE girls is that most of them expect 1-2 dates before they sleep with you. Almost all of my lays in Europe have happened this way. Maybe I could be gaming them better

I wonder if you're making EE a lot harder that it is. I can only speak for Poland, but one-night stands are just as easy for me as in America (if not easier) using more of a direct/caveman game. I'm talking girls in the 6-8 range... great bodies, cute faces, but no supermodels. If you're using indirect American game, I can see why it would take longer. I've heard other guys report of Poland, so my experience is more of a outlier, but it shows why one guy can "kill it" while the other is convinced it's impossible. This is how I felt about Argentina, but apparently some guys do well there.

Also EE has over a dozen countries, so by grouping it in this way you assume it's all the same. It's like saying "South American girls" when we know there are wide variations. You may want to be more specific about which countries instead of just saying "EE".

Quote:

Maybe I could be gaming them better, but I think many of these girls, if they hear, "I'm in town for three months," their first thought isn't going to be, "Oh cool, I can fuck him now," it's going to be, "Oh, my new American boyfriend, let's go on some dates this week!"

Haven't experienced this. When I say I live here, the chances of a ONS go up dramatically. A girl would be more interested in dating you instead of fucking if you're putting out a slow-paced, provider vibe.

Quote:

The more I travel around, the more I realize that if you truly want to tap into the quality anywhere, you need minimum two weeks and preferably a month or more. I'm finding it harder and harder to take any guy seriously who pops through a town for 2-3 days and says he "killed it" there

Be careful... just because you're not killing it doesn't mean other guys aren't. We're all different, so a country I may bomb at may be heaven for another guy. It sounds like you've made up your mind that it's impossible to consistently pull good quality without the conditions you've ascribed.

I remember when Tg3 was saying that he was getting laid every night in Poland. We (including me) called him a troll. But with my experience I believe he was being truthful.

[Entropy4]

This is true... and it's good to catch me on my assumptions, so thanks. By EE, my experience thus far is Ukraine, Hungary and non-touristy Prague. Prague, ONS seemed easier and more implicit. Hungary less so, and Ukraine much less so. I think the degree of language barrier does play some kind of role. Although I'm still not sure exactly how or what that role is. I haven't been to Poland yet, so I can't comment. I personally don't like lying to girls about living somewhere when I'm just passing through for a week either, so I can't comment if that actually works or not. I just know that the places that I have lived, on average more girls become interested in me because they see me as viable, but the process gets dragged out. When I'm just passing through, fewer see me as an option but the ones who do seem to more readily go home with me. Whether that's me or them (or both), not sure yet.

I can say with confidence though, that you're not going to pull high quality in Odessa consistently without speaking Russian or spending time (2+ weeks) here to get socially connected. The language barrier may be the highest I've ever seen (5% English, maybe?) and the dating culture is more traditional than that of other European countries. Hungary seems similar but to a lesser extent.

The problem with cross-referencing a lof of this info though is that: 1) different guys have different standards of quality, for some guys a regular girl in a tourist bar is sexy and a girl who looks like a model in a club is a skank; and 2) most guys aren't able to be objective about their own game and about what's working and what isn't and what's just blind luck. You catching me on a some of my assumptions above is a perfect example. We all do it, but some to far greater degrees than others.

[Roosh]

Quote:

By the time the third woman I spoke to quoted time to the dollar value, I knew exactly why they were killing it there.

Reminds me of Rio. Not to single out black guys but they were most vocal about killing it there. If you dug in deeper then P4P was the reason why.

Quote:

I can say with confidence though, that you're not going to pull high quality in Odessa consistently without speaking Russian or spending time (2+ weeks) here to get socially connected.

I agree that this seems to be the case anywhere, where "high quality" is 8+, but most guys don't really care about that. For them, getting with a 6 is more than fine.

Also a lot of guys here have high standards, so my 7 could be another guys 8 (or even 9). By writing about travel game in regard to high quality 8+ girls, we're not helping the typical guy who travels for some fun, not to land a beautiful wife.

When I write about a country's easiness, I'm referring to a cute girl with nice body (a typical 7). Most guys are happy with that and don't really care about the 9 in the club with attitude. I'm totally fine playing in the 6-8 range, as I think most of my readers. I don't know any guy who travels exclusively to get models or whatever.

[Gringo]

Everyone talks about the sex tourism / hooker scene in Brazil and particularly Rio and I barely even noticed it. Was approached by 2 hookers in one of the out door bars down at Copacobana and that was the extent of it, didn't come across any others.

[Entropy4]

Well, the difference in Odessa is that the 9's are fucking everywhere... The 8+ girls are almost the majority in clubs here...

But it comes back to different guys want different things. Some guys are happy sorting through slop in a third world country. Others only want girls that you'd see on the cover of Victoria's Secret. Unfortunately, you can almost never get a sense of their desires through their posts. A guy wanting easy lays would hate Ukraine. A guy wanting to work for high quality would love it here. Shrug.

[Sirob]

I was mostly day gaming in Tallinn so I saw a literal sea of 7s and 7.5s.

Few 8s and very few stunning super hot 9s or dimes. Those were only to be seen in night clubs such as Prive and Venus.

In one of the side threads on Ukraine, someone commented that Tallinn is chock a block with ridiculously hot women. From my experience that was not the case. But then, I was mostly out during the day time. The quality was definitely higher than Krakow tho.

Finnish girls were more slutty looking as compared to the Estonians. Again, I was in Helsinki only for 2 days, so that's my general impression.

However Finnish girls are definitely easier. By easier, I mean they are very direct in telling you what they want if they like you. There was also a vibe of overt feminism in Helsinki.

If you have good direct game, Helsinki will be very much to your liking.

On the other hand, if you have patience to go thru 2-3 dates for getting the bang, Tallinn may still be fruitful.

Anyone who says that ONSes are common in Tallinn is bluffing thru his skin. I just did not see any hooking up going on there.

(06-23-2011 08:15 AM)Luckystar Wrote:  

(06-23-2011 05:16 AM)Sirob Wrote:  

Tallinn is still gold. However bear in mind the following points:

1) Night game is dead. Or atleast heavily on the wane.
2) Day game is king. If you are willing to pound the pavements and day game the shit out of the place, you will still get rewarded. Obviously this means that you will have to go on Day 2s and 3s. But the payoff is still worth it.

I spent 8 days in Tallinn a couple of weeks back and am preparing a comprehensive data sheet on the place. Will post it up within the next week.

A side note: If you really want easy girls, do yourself a favour and cross over the sea to Finland. The Finnish girls I met in Tallinn were forward to the point of being obnoxious.

Sirob, how was the talent in Tallinn? in Finland?

[Sirob]

Roosh, is this only in Poznan or you experienced it anywhere else?

Also, is the rejection rate higher with direct/caveman game?

(06-26-2011 08:20 AM)Roosh Wrote:  

Quote:

What I've noticed about EE girls is that most of them expect 1-2 dates before they sleep with you. Almost all of my lays in Europe have happened this way. Maybe I could be gaming them better

I wonder if you're making EE a lot harder that it is. I can only speak for Poland, but one-night stands are just as easy for me as in America (if not easier) using more of a direct/caveman game. I'm talking girls in the 6-8 range... great bodies, cute faces, but no supermodels. If you're using indirect American game, I can see why it would take longer. I've heard other guys report of Poland, so my experience is more of a outlier, but it shows why one guy can "kill it" while the other is convinced it's impossible. This is how I felt about Argentina, but apparently some guys do well there.

Also EE has over a dozen countries, so by grouping it in this way you assume it's all the same. It's like saying "South American girls" when we know there are wide variations. You may want to be more specific about which countries instead of just saying "EE".

Quote:

Maybe I could be gaming them better, but I think many of these girls, if they hear, "I'm in town for three months," their first thought isn't going to be, "Oh cool, I can fuck him now," it's going to be, "Oh, my new American boyfriend, let's go on some dates this week!"

Haven't experienced this. When I say I live here, the chances of a ONS go up dramatically. A girl would be more interested in dating you instead of fucking if you're putting out a slow-paced, provider vibe.

Quote:

The more I travel around, the more I realize that if you truly want to tap into the quality anywhere, you need minimum two weeks and preferably a month or more. I'm finding it harder and harder to take any guy seriously who pops through a town for 2-3 days and says he "killed it" there

Be careful... just because you're not killing it doesn't mean other guys aren't. We're all different, so a country I may bomb at may be heaven for another guy. It sounds like you've made up your mind that it's impossible to consistently pull good quality without the conditions you've ascribed.

I remember when Tg3 was saying that he was getting laid every night in Poland. We (including me) called him a troll. But with my experience I believe he was being truthful.

[Roosh]

Sirob: This is in Poznan and Gdansk. I start indirect but go quickly direct when I sense she's interested, so technically I don't get rejected from it. Either I get rejected early or things progress.

[Hooligan Harry]

(06-26-2011 10:06 AM)Gringo Wrote:  

Everyone talks about the sex tourism / hooker scene in Brazil and particularly Rio and I barely even noticed it. Was approached by 2 hookers in one of the out door bars down at Copacobana and that was the extent of it, didn't come across any others.

You need to wear smarter shoes and have a sunburn bro...

[Hooligan Harry]

(06-26-2011 12:06 PM)Entropy4 Wrote:  

Well, the difference in Odessa is that the 9's are fucking everywhere... The 8+ girls are almost the majority in clubs here...

But it comes back to different guys want different things. Some guys are happy sorting through slop in a third world country. Others only want girls that you'd see on the cover of Victoria's Secret. Unfortunately, you can almost never get a sense of their desires through their posts. A guy wanting easy lays would hate Ukraine. A guy wanting to work for high quality would love it here. Shrug.

To put that into perspective though, you dont have to work that hard. Back where most of us come from, 8's and 9's tend to require far more work and are very high maintenance. There is also a lot of competition for them because they are so few in comparison.

In Ukraine, there are so many 8's to go around, and there are fewer men on top of that. The competition between them is higher which makes it a far more pleasant experience IMO. The 8's and 9's are easier and they are far more accommodating and drama free

And another thing to remember is that ONS and SNL are pretty common in the liberal societies we live in. For many of these women, sleeping with you the second or third time she met you is fast for her.

Its regional. Ukrainian women are a bit more conservative than Russian for example.

[Entropy4]

It's true... for instance in the US, I only see maybe 1-2 girls who are 8+ in a weekend. Here I'll see 15-20 in one night. So in that sense, yeah, I imagine in a month here, you'd be able to hook up with more 8+'s than back home. It just requires approaching and getting shot down a lot... which I know some guys aren't into.

[Aliblahba]

[attachment=2154]


Here's an example of a girl in Tallinn I could have banged. She is a 7 in my book, least by U.S. standards. There she was average at best. It took at least two weeks for her and 2 others of the same caliber to warm up. I was targeting the cream of the crop, which led to my demise.

[MiXX]

Dang yo!! It took 2 weeks to warm an average girl
Like that up?

Shit, I'm getting much better looking girl in Minneappolis, Ohio and North Dakota Even SARASOTA, Fl in HALF the time!!

This is why I am so hesitant about traveling to Tallin.

Mixx

[Aliblahba]

(06-27-2011 08:56 AM)MiXX Wrote:  

Dang yo!! It took 2 weeks to warm an average girl
Like that up?

Shit, I'm getting much better looking girl in Minneappolis, Ohio and North Dakota Even SARASOTA, Fl in HALF the time!!

This is why I am so hesitant about traveling to Tallin.

Mixx

I'm a natural at infiltrating social circles. Travel enough solo and it becomes easy. I was hanging w/ heavy playas, the top pop-star, a soldier, and wealthy businessmen. Girls were amazed who I was seen w/ around old town. Even w/ that amount of social proofing the chicas weren't putting out. I got big points from being American, just knowing that Estonia existed, and being in the "warrior" class.

Like Napoleon and Stalin, the winter drove me out. Daygame was non-existent and local girls were running from door to door. The tides were changing, but I was putting 12 hr. days socializing. Staying one more month and renting an apartment would have paid off.