[Dalaran1991]

I've been thinking about this for a long long time but I kept postponing this post. Yet a recent strings of events really push me to share it here.


With the redpill and the wisdom on this forum, we all know that the world is not out there to help you. Things like dark triad are promoted. We refrain from any and all forms of white-knighting, even the slightest such as helping a women picked up her dropped stuff (there was a thread about this just the other day) We see through the lies and false goodness of liberal leftists. We abhor betas and all displays of betaness. We know that kids too can be horrible.

What this does, as I observed, for me at least, is hardening our heart and soul which arguably help tremendously with game. Yet all too often a side effect is that it turns us into cold, indifferent people.

A very prevailing mentality I see here is the "I won't waste my time in anything that is not profitable to me", also supported by the fact that, most people actually repay your kindness with ingratitude, violence and betrayal.

Where does that leave room for kindness to random people then? Because, all too often I've had my day saved by some random stranger who simply helped me out of the blue. (I'm not talking about the "let's make the world a better place" kindness shitalk)


***My story***

I was in the metro tonight in Paris. There was a family with two children. The little girl is may be 7 years old. She looked very depressed and her father was holding her hand trying to consolate her. Then she started crying.

It's the metro in Paris. Nobody batted an eyelash at that. I was sitting right next to the girl. Normally I wouldn't care less about a brat crying either, but something tonight was different. The girl felt like she was really in pain. The whole family looked depressed.

So as she was sobbing I took out a paper tissue and handed it to her. The little girl's face lit up like a hearthfire and her whole family was gasping in surprise. I started talking to them. Turned out to be some English, and the girl was pickpocketed by some Parisian thugs. It really scared her.

The girl looked like a little angel, like that kind of niece/daughter you would like to one day have. Thin cute body with long braided hair and big eyes, clutching to her father like a pup. Not like the fat spoiled brat that Westerners tend to produce.

The family was really nice people, you know, the type you go to have Thanksgiving dinner with. Christians with the whole "we forgive these pickpocketers" stupid stuff, but just generally very nice people. They keep thanking me and telling me that I restored her faith in humanity, that for every bad person you meet there is a good person, that God sent me (I'm fucking atheist/Buddist) and that I'm a very special person etc.

******

It really makes me think. I'm not trying to start a TED talk here, but it really does take the smallest act of kindness to make someone's day. Is it worth it? The family turned out to be a nice, God-loving, traditional father. But it could have been a leftist gang with a cuck father, a spoiled brat daughter and a gay son. If such was the case I would beat myself for being nice to the wrong people.

Yet I was nice to the right people. The question is, I could never know if I didn't do it. Yet I did it and I would probably still do it again. Maybe part of it was just the male protective instinct too.

What does that leave us? Should we still strive to do as much good as possible because it is the right thing to do, knowing full well that it might turn out to be meaningless or even stupid, in this hostile and sometimes fuck-up world?

That girl I helped today, she might turn out to be a carousel riding slut, or a traditional, redpill girl that we look for in LTRs, and by so helping her I helped preserved part of her innocence.

I've had some trouble with my visa lately and when dealing with administrators in France, you did run into some fat office meatloaf who made your recent cuntish flake look like an angel. Yet at the same time there were people who went out of their way to help me.

***A girl white-knighted me and saved my day****

I was way too late to submit my re-enrollment application (without which I have to leave France), and the office was closed. I was like, fuck, maybe if I go to the director and beg? But then a staff girl went out, she saw me with my application and asked if she could help. Not only did she accept my application, she made sure I filled out everything correctly and said she would process the file herself.

I'm telling you that thing like this just doesn't happen. It's like you are at the DMV and the staff process all your documents with a big smile in 5 seconds.

In this instance I was clearly white-knighted. Had our positions been exchanged, I usually would tell anybody late for enrollment that my hands are tied.


***********************************

So that's my little rant guys. I'm not advocating we go out and save the world fuck no. Hope you guys get what I'm talking about.

[Parzival]

For me it never hurt to be kind and nice. As long as you keep your own stuff in place. There is a difference between "nice" people that get kind abused by other and nice once that look at themselves first and then be nice and kind to others.

When someone respond to me in a negative way, I make my stand clear but don't lower my level of politeness. Don't get me wrong you have to be direct time by time. Still you can do it in different ways. Some people lose their shit and others keep it in such situations. Kind of a real character show of.

The world is kind of a mess but I try to avoid to think like some people. They think the world is bad and people give them shit, so that's what they also start to do. Like your boss gave you shit today, so after work you give shit to the guy at the supermarket. I try to avoid that kind of mentality. And about be kind to the wrong people, you are kind for the sake of be kind, because its your attitude. You don't know the others nor the outcome. You do it because you consider it as right.

At the and I see it as some kind of Karma. Don't let others fool you or treat you bad. Still I don't lost my faith in mankind. Most people I meet in my life a decent and nice. So its not that hard for me to be kind. And then I see others, they are not self aware, if you are not self aware I guess you also have problems to characterise others. So you meet more of the wrong people because your judgement system is not correct.

[TooFineAPoint]

There's no point living if you're not trying to be as kind as you can, depending on what the circumstance allows. It's sort of like the truth. When you're young, if you really value the truth, you end up pissing a lot of people off. Because you constantly say what is on your mind, because "it's the truth". As you grow up you realize you don't need this childish version of honesty to actually pursue enlightening truths.

There are some fools and knaves out there and we make it our job as men to identify them and restrict our kindness to them so that they can't harm us and our loved ones. Sometime we mess up. But being kind is usually a win-win situation, and if someone responds poorly to kindness it is so easy to dust off your feet and move on, and let them stew in their own misery.

Kindness in love is very fulfilling. You just don't lead with it. A woman earns your kindness, but when she has earned it you give it unsparingly and watch as it lights up both your lives. Even better; since you have to be the colder, more cautious one externally to do the protecting thing I mentioned above, her natural feminine tendency is to be open and caring to others. It balances nicely. Life really is set to work itself out that way.

[Rush87]

Being red pill is also about being virtuous as a man. You need to look past the notion of helping the right or wrong people. Your frame remains the same regardless. The right thing is always the right thing. If you just so happen to help the wrong people it doesn't detract from the fact that your deed was positive. Perhaps those people didn't deserve it but you do… As a red pill male an act of kindness adds value to yourself just as much as the person you're helping.

[samsamsam]

Rush87 is right that redpill is also about being virtuous. Ever notice some of the toughest guys here are also the most noble in their actions or are not dicks when they could be?

And don't get attached to what redpill means, it means something different to everyone. Don't get hung up on it. No one is watching and going to revoke your redpill card because you were nice to someone. I think some guys really have their wires crossed about this stuff. Just like a lot of guys have their wires crossed on the "don't give a fuck attitude." Usually it is the young guys with limited experience and perspective.

As long as you are not attached to the outcome of your moment of kindness you are solid. Do something nice for someone and expect nothing in return. Then you are noble. Do something nice because you think you will get praise or rewarded seems a little wimpy to me.

Also, many redpill guys see the world and see how it is slipping away because of terrible behavior. By doing something kind, no matter how small, does something to slow the damage. It is better than just complaining about it and doing nothing.

[Foolsgo1d]

I've lost count how many times I've had to help some girl on a night out who was off her face. Could I have taken advantage of them? Yes. Would that be a piece of shit move? Certainly.

Kindness reminds us that the world isn't just full of people wanting to harm us, steal from us and kill us and I certainly don't believe red pill has anything to do with it.

It is when people take advantage of a persons kindness that distrust and cynicism sets in. This is where a red pill POV can come into it because who here hasn't been burned by a woman after they acted with kindness?

[Onto]

One of the attributes of being a developed man is helping/protecting those who aren't strong enough to help/protect themselves. There are many ways to do that, including giving a tissue to a little girl when she needs it most.

You do it because by doing so you are bringing a principle (the other-worldly) into worldly existence through your action.

I've noticed in my own life when you do something it can create a ripple effect in my life.

In your example, the more open and kind you are to the world the more the world you live in actually changes. Like looking through a kaleidoscope and turning the wheel. The world was always there to be had if we turned the wheel (action) just so.

You help a little girl, then later another girl helped you. And if it was the other way around, all the more wondrous.

[silk]

Life is easiest when you're amoral; when you have no qualms about fucking people over, lying, pretending to be their friends, etc. You'll make the most money and do a lot of fun things.

The problem is most people cannot do this, without feeling like a piece of shit. Follow the beat of your own drum. Do what makes you feel good and happy. Do watch the balance between kindness and being a bitch.

[StrikeBack]

The Red Pill or neomasculine mentality helps you to become a strong man.

Kindness and generosity come from the strong.

There is no conflict here.

With experience, you will also develop the ability to figure out who's worthy of your generosity.

[samsamsam]

(10-30-2015 10:03 PM)silk Wrote:  

Life is easiest when you're amoral;

Really? I can see it being very difficult when you constantly need to fabricate things and find new people to associate with. I don't know about the word easy.

[eatthishomie]

A few acts of kindness here and there is a good thing as long as you aren't giving away all of yours.

Being alpha doesn't mean being a sociopath.

[Scoundrel]

[rpg]

Mature kindness does not enable jackass behavior of others.

[cascadecombo]

I personally enjoy being kind and generous when I want to be. However I do so because I want to, not because I expect anything in return. If I am in a bar enjoying a nice shisha, I happily offer it to those around me who seem like they may be interested in trying. If I hear a friend would doing something that seems difficult, I offer them my help if that day is open. I’ve helped friends move their businesses and redo their shops, I’m generally offered food or drinks but I never expect anything.

That includes other people I have never met before. I saw a man frustrated at a ticket counter while heading to the gym, recognizing he was trying to hold back his frustration with the inability to communicate I walked up and offered to help.

The one key thing is that when I offer to help someone, it’s always on an occasion where I perceive someone could actually benefit from someone helping and not being simply given a handout. There was a time when I tried to win people over by helping whenever I could, doing everything I could and ultimately becoming a doormat. That lesson was quickly learned.

Honestly, I don’t think about “is X redpill?” when I go to do something, I live my life in the way I want to be treated. It won’t always happen that way, but likes attract like.

[Wutang]

I've been pretty concerned about the issue of kindness, morality and such as of late as well. The last 2-3 years I've been getting bombarded with a lot of SJW stuff, mostly from being involved with the manosphere and also because a lot of people that I am acquainted with are SJWs to a degree thanks to all of this nonsense going mainstream and it's really made me wonder if it's causing me to lose my sense of charity, kindness, etc. The reason is that they have co-opted so much of these things that I tend to associate it with SJWs. I've mentioned a few times about how have SJWs adhere to 'slave morality' in the Nietzsche sense and since I am not totally un-self aware it realize that a lot of the criticisms I apply to them can also apply to my own sense of what is charitable and altruistic as well.

It's quite ironic, all of this BlackLivesMatter, letting third-world migrants overrun Europe and such stuff is actually making me LESS compassionate and it's frankly bothering me. Part of it just moral exhaustion. It's like walking around NYC and constantly running into homeless panhandlers. Even though you know all of these people are living miserable lives there's just so many one after another that after a while you feel yourself becoming numb to it. Another is the constant talk of "compassion" and "empathy" coming from people who are so mentally off and unstable is really starting make me associate negative feelings with those words, not to mention all of the moral posturing and Pharisee praying in public type of behavior from these people is also making me associate phoniness with acts of kindness and charity.

Kinda rambling there. I want to end the post on a more positive note but I haven't managed to resolve this conflict yet.

[Alpha_Romeo]

Too much analysis/overthinking. Just go with your gut, your condcience.

White knighting is not about helping people/kindness. White knighting is helping women under the self-delusion that the act of kindness will gain sexual favor. If you want to be kind to people, help them, etc. and expect nothing in return that's not white knighting. That's just being a decent human being. My 2 cents'...

[Khan]

This is an issue I believe everyone struggles with for some time after embracing the red pill. When you realize how life&women really work, it's very easy to slip into a phase of frustration where you believe that the only way to lead a successful life is to become an arrogant jackass, or a sociopath.

This is of course not true. The key to overcoming this struggle and abandoning your frustration phase is to realize that there are two types of kind/nice people: those that are kind from a position of power, and those who are kind out of despair. Those belonging to the second group usually fail at life, as their primary motivation for being kind is usually to suck up to someone. Don't be like that. Become a well-rounded man with impenetrable self-confidence, an alpha if you want to, and a lot of people will admire you if you're kind to them. In short - become worthy, assume power, and rule.

By the way, a while ago there was an excellent article on RoK that dealt with the same topic:
http://www.returnofkings.com/53877/the-t...-nice-guys

[Giovonny]

(10-30-2015 07:13 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Things like dark triad are promoted.

Don't believe everything you read online.

Blogs and forums do not establish "universal" law.

They present information which is probably best applied on a subjective, individual, case by case basis.

You are creating dogma when there is no need to.

Why limit yourself with rules?

If you want to help someone, help them.

If you dont, don't.

(10-30-2015 07:13 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

We abhor betas

I don't abhor betas.

They have a place in society.

Like my grandfather used to say when he would take me to professional baseball games:

"Not everyone can be Joe DiMaggio, someone has to sit in the stands and cheer"

Both are needed.

(10-30-2015 07:13 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Where does that leave room for kindness to random people then?

It leaves plenty of room.

As you know, everyday we get opportunities to be nice to people.

(10-30-2015 07:13 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Is it worth it?

That depends..

How much are you investing? What is your return?

Only you can quantify it and know if it's "worth it" for you.

I am generally very kind to others but not so much that it causes my own suffering.

(10-30-2015 07:13 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Should we still strive to do as much good as possible because it is the right thing to do

No.

Do only what you can handle.

(Unless, you want to give your life in service of others which is okay, I guess...? It has worked for some)

--

(10-31-2015 01:49 AM)Alpha_Romeo Wrote:  

Too much analysis/overthinking.

Yes.

This is one of the biggest problems facing modern man.

We think too much and create neurosis for ourselves.

Great call!

--

This is my favorite:

(10-30-2015 10:03 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

The Red Pill or neomasculine mentality helps you to become a strong man.

Kindness and generosity come from the strong.

There is no conflict here.

With experience, you will also develop the ability to figure out who's worthy of your generosity.

I agree.

There is no conflict here.

Men can help those in need, if they choose to.

[Hygiene]

Altruism is a dangerous drug and a worse master. Kindness is subtle. The original post is exemplary in this matter.

However, lest confusion be sown, going against one's family interest is weakness not virtue.

[Praetor Lupus]

You can be as kind as you want.

Just don't be weak.

[Heinrich von Geobbels]

The Golden Rule is found in every worldview known, a point C. S. Lewis made in his The Abolition of Man. Sometimes it is expressed in the positive "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" and sometimes in the negative, "Do not do unto others as you would have them not do unto you," but however the wording, simple kindness is a virtue. Being red pill doesn't mean being a jerk. A gentle strength is still strength and I have no problem holding doors for people who have their hands full.

One caveat: once I held a door open for a woman who was carrying a box. Turned out to be an SJW who decided to berate me. In a loud voice I said how pitiful it was she hated herself so much she couldn't accept a simple act of human dignity. Shut her up rather quickly. I then let the door close on her and walked away.

[Beyond Borders]

This post cracked me up...

I'll resist the urge to pick apart all different points that made me shake my head, but I wll say this:

If your daily observations conflict with your worldview, there's at least a small possibility your woldview is the part that's on crooked.

[HankMoody]

Excellent post.

That said, one of the things I like about the "manosphere" is a lot of you guys are here to help frustrated men with nowhere else to turn. If it weren't for you guys on the forum, and guys like Roosh, McQueen, Forney, Heartiste, etc. I'd be a very different person with no clue about relationships.

Many of you are like the older brothers we never had. There to lay the smack down when it's necessary, but also willing to lend an ear and dole out some truths you won't hear from the mainstream media.

Personally, I try and write to share my own mistakes and experiences.

[Grodin]

Some people take this red-pill stuff too seriously. It shouldn't be a cult, it shouldn't be dogmatic or become some kind of litmus test.

What attracted me to red-pill authors was, at it's essence, about thinking for yourself and dissecting the motivations of people who try to tell you how to live your life. That's what attracted me to this corner of the internet, maybe that says more about me than it says about the red-pill however.

As far as white knighting goes, Alpha_Romeo did a good job of explaining my own P.O.V. in a straight to the point way.

I'll expand upon that a little bit to explain what I see as white-knighting. I see it as a "signaling" that you are not one of the bad guys, and in a way it shows that you buy into the myth that masculinity is bad. Usually when a guy is out white-knighting it comes at the expense or at opposition to a man who's not doing anything wrong. It's an act of swooping in to defend a woman who doesn't need defended, rescuing a "victim" from a badman whose "oppressing her". It's essentially an act of ego, the white knight assuages his own male guilt by bringing other men down and convincing himself he's one of the special men who are different and good.

Helping someone out isn't white knighting unless it requires sabotaging some other man's above-board game. That's not to say you shouldn't chip in to stop a robbery or rape or some other genuinely oppressive behavior. You have to be able to make your own determination on when someone actually needs and deserves your help vs. the microaggression cult of victimhood that seeks to co-opt your power for other people's interests.

[Dr. Howard]

(10-31-2015 04:02 PM)Hygiene Wrote:  

Altruism is a dangerous drug and a worse master. Kindness is subtle. The original post is exemplary in this matter.

However, lest confusion be sown, going against one's family interest is weakness not virtue.

The modern proverb would be something like "giving a bottle of water to a landscaper is more rewarding than making it rain in the club"