[rudebwoy]

Samseau - we cannot have a serious debate if you are making comments such as the "Trump Administration will change things". History has shown that over the last 100 years every US president except JFK has worked against the American people. Funny how none of them have never overturned the Federal Reserve Act or the Income Tax which was meant to be a temporary thing.

Tax - http://www.pittmeadowstoday.ca/federal-p...e-in-1917/

Bro, if Trump turns around America. I will fly to your city and buy you dinner at the best place in town, I will eat humble pie for dessert.

[zatara]

"no military" "not enough military spending". Either you're delusional or you won't admit you had no idea what the actual figure for European military spending was, and just decided to use a media-soundbyte incorrectly. Having the 3rd largest military expenditure on Earth is more than enough. Who exactly do you think is going to invade Europe with a traditional military? Having thousands more expensive modern tanks or F35 jets would be beyond useless spending. Cold-war style military industrial spending does very little against the current threats to Western Civilization - mass immigration & terrorism.

The reason the US birth rate is higher is because of the large number of minorities and evangelical Christians. Educated, white, non-religious families across both continents have similar birth rates. Education, income and race have a higher low birthrate correlation across both continents than nationality.

For a long time contributor to the Roosh forums I'm extremely surprised at your views on 'useless' spare time. Most members here seem to value financial independence, travel, self-improvement (mental and physical) etc. Working the rat-race for 60 hours a week is generally looked down upon, because it restricts all of this greatly. The fact you think the only thing to do with free time is "smoke, drink and play video games" is more a reflection on your own habits than others, I think. I don't know a single person who does that, and can't imagine any mature adult doing so - that's a teenager's ideal of free time, not an adult.

edit: @nomadbrah you could at least try to factcheck statistics before posting them. The retirement age in Denmark is 65(1)... The coddling of the babyboomer generation is absolutely intergenerational theft though, its a huge issue. But its not confined to Europe. Its a worldwide problem thats unlikely to go away given the over 60s voting power, unfortunately.

(1) http://www.etk.fi/en/service/retirement_...ement_ages

[Samseau]

I didn't say "will change," I said, "may change."

I know politics can seem hopeless, but when candidates go into office with a supermajority mandate, America sometimes get guys like Lincoln or FDR who really shake things up.

I look forward to that dinner.

[Moma]

Hear, hear, Zatara. Absolutely well said, bro.

[Samseau]

(01-29-2016 01:34 PM)zatara Wrote:  

Most members here seem to value financial independence, travel, self-improvement (mental and physical) etc. Working the rat-race for 60 hours a week is generally looked down upon, because it restricts all of this greatly. The fact you think the only thing to do with free time is "smoke, drink and play video games" is more a reflection on your own habits than others, I think. I don't know a single person who does that, and can't imagine any mature adult doing so - that's a teenager's ideal of free time, not an adult.

Traveling, while fun, is usually just as much as a frivolity as playing a game. It's just a luxury on a much higher level. Traveling ultimately produces very little.

I'm not saying that work is the end all be all, but rather that it's obvious the priorities of most of rich Europeans, especially their women, are totally broken. And the poor Europeans are crushed by their state and cannot afford to reproduce.

By the way - Christians = people who will still exist 500 years from now. Educated Europeans = extinct species 500 years from now.

[rudebwoy]

(01-29-2016 01:34 PM)zatara Wrote:  

"no military" "not enough military spending". Either you're delusional or you won't admit you had no idea what the actual figure for European military spending was, and just decided to use a media-soundbyte incorrectly. Having the 3rd largest military expenditure on Earth is more than enough. Who exactly do you think is going to invade Europe with a traditional military? Having thousands more expensive modern tanks or F35 jets would be beyond useless spending. Cold-war style military industrial spending does very little against the current threats to Western Civilization - mass immigration & terrorism.

The reason the US birth rate is higher is because of the large number of minorities and evangelical Christians. Educated, white, non-religious families across both continents have similar birth rates. Education, income and race have a higher low birthrate correlation across both continents than nationality.

For a long time contributor to the Roosh forums I'm extremely surprised at your views on 'useless' spare time. Most members here seem to value financial independence, travel, self-improvement (mental and physical) etc. Working the rat-race for 60 hours a week is generally looked down upon, because it restricts all of this greatly. The fact you think the only thing to do with free time is "smoke, drink and play video games" is more a reflection on your own habits than others, I think. I don't know a single person who does that, and can't imagine any mature adult doing so - that's a teenager's ideal of free time, not an adult.

edit: @nomadbrah you could at least try to factcheck statistics before posting them. The retirement age in Denmark is 65(1)... The coddling of the babyboomer generation is absolutely international theft though, its a huge issue. But its not confined to Europe. Its a worldwide problem thats unlikely to go away given the over 60s voting power, unfortunately.

(1) http://www.etk.fi/en/service/retirement_...ement_ages

[zatara]

(01-29-2016 01:40 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

Traveling, while fun, is usually just as much as a frivolity as playing a game. It's just a luxury on a much higher level. Traveling ultimately produces very little.

I'm not saying that work is the end all be all, but rather that it's obvious the priorities of most of rich Europeans, especially their women, are totally broken. And the poor Europeans are crushed by their state and cannot afford to reproduce.

By the way - Christians = people who will still exist 500 years from now. Educated Europeans = extinct species 500 years from now.

You think traveling the world, seeing great historical sites, experiencing other cultures, meeting people of other nationalities, sleeping with attractive women and making new friends is the equivalent of playing Xbox in your mom's basement? I think you've got to be trolling. Or are nuts.

[Moma]

Samseau, the founder of this forum is a great traveller and you denounce that as nothing? Now I know you are trolling.

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

I think people need to remind themselves of the old forum saying: "if we're making any negative claims about people in general, you are automatically excluded from any claims made simply by the virtue of being a contributing forum member." People here are for the most part not average and don't have average capacity, awareness or goals.

How many Europeans/Americans travel to other countries in order to get out of their comfort zone, bang girls and experience other cultures?
Imagine a number.
Then compare it to the number of Europeans/Americans who travel to other countries in order to attention whore, tick off Trip Advisor Achievement Lists, promote a bullshit nihilist/globalist cause and (most often) for no reason whatsoever.

Judging from all the "people who travel a lot" I know, I'd be highly surprised if the ratio of these two categories was smaller than 1:1000.

Samseau is right. Don't confuse travel as a tool with travel as a frivolity.

[Samseau]

Quote:

You think traveling the world, seeing great historical sites, experiencing other cultures, meeting people of other nationalities, sleeping with attractive women and making new friends is the equivalent of playing Xbox in your mom's basement? I think you've got to be trolling.

Not even close. Even if you're one of the elite travelers who experience things %.0001 of what other men experience, if you don't leave anything behind and help your neighbors in a meaningful way your accomplishments go the way of Ozymandias.

But the fact is, most people travel just to go get drunk/high on a beach somewhere, and maybe fuck some other slutty traveler or perhaps score with a local. That is not anything I would considering too meaningful, but it sure is fun.

[nomadbrah]

(01-29-2016 01:34 PM)zatara Wrote:  

edit: @nomadbrah you could at least try to factcheck statistics before posting them. The retirement age in Denmark is 65(1)... The coddling of the babyboomer generation is absolutely intergenerational theft though, its a huge issue. But its not confined to Europe. Its a worldwide problem thats unlikely to go away given the over 60s voting power, unfortunately.

(1) http://www.etk.fi/en/service/retirement_...ement_ages

It's 68 already for a newborn and expected to increase with median age to 73,5 within the next 40 years.

Which won't hurt the white collars, while blue collars can croak just in time to not get their pension.

[Anabasis to Desta]

This thread was going in America's favor until Moma and Rudebwoy came in dribbling like Xavi and Iniesta dropping truth grenades all over.

I still prefer America though.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-29-2016 05:53 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

This thread was going in America's favor until Moma and Rudebwoy came in dribbling like Xavi and Iniesta dropping truth grenades all over.

I still prefer America though.

Preference is up to each person. Some people just have a desire to work a lot and reach for the stars, others are happy with a simple life of comfort. I'm not going to bash anyone for their preference, as long as they don't impose on other's abilities to live how they see fit.

But the European life style simply is not sufficient. There is no arguing this. The EU is going bankrupt, and austerity measures are slashing standard of living with no end in sight and the future looking worse.

The simple fact is you have to compete with other countries. Even if your population is very smart and well educated, if they only work 30 hour weeks and have mountains of red tape to do business, then businesses will look to locate else where and that has been the down fall of the EU over the last 15 years.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-29-2016 05:58 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(01-29-2016 05:53 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

This thread was going in America's favor until Moma and Rudebwoy came in dribbling like Xavi and Iniesta dropping truth grenades all over.

I still prefer America though.

Preference is up to each person. Some people just have a desire to work a lot and reach for the stars, others are happy with a simple life of comfort. I'm not going to bash anyone for their preference, as long as they don't impose on other's abilities to live how they see fit.

But the European life style simply is not sufficient. There is no arguing this. The EU is going bankrupt, and austerity measures are slashing standard of living with no end in sight and the future looking worse.

The simple fact is you have to compete with other countries. Even if your population is very smart and well educated, if they only work 30 hour weeks and have mountains of red tape to do business, then businesses will look to locate else where and that has been the down fall of the EU over the last 15 years.

The problem with the EU is that there is a lot of deadweight. IF you look at just Germany it's economically pretty strong and is the rising tide that lifts all boats in the E.U. That's why it's especially troubling that they are deciding to commit cultural/demographic suicide now.

On the other hand the southern european countries are complete basket cases.

Italy is a low productive output country that takes on immense debt, most of the elites there live off generational wealth, negative birth rate, and seems to not be able to handle its own internal corruption still. Italy is like the gold digger who keeps running through credit cards and keeps asking her sponsor to kick her down a new one each time it's maxxed out.

Spain subsists on tourist dollars, the longest running real estate bubble, and also has an absurd debt ratio.

Greece is simply done.

These southern european countries create massive drag for actual productive nations in the E.U.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-29-2016 06:07 PM)El Chinito loco Wrote:  

(01-29-2016 05:58 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

(01-29-2016 05:53 PM)Anabasis to Desta Wrote:  

This thread was going in America's favor until Moma and Rudebwoy came in dribbling like Xavi and Iniesta dropping truth grenades all over.

I still prefer America though.

Preference is up to each person. Some people just have a desire to work a lot and reach for the stars, others are happy with a simple life of comfort. I'm not going to bash anyone for their preference, as long as they don't impose on other's abilities to live how they see fit.

But the European life style simply is not sufficient. There is no arguing this. The EU is going bankrupt, and austerity measures are slashing standard of living with no end in sight and the future looking worse.

The simple fact is you have to compete with other countries. Even if your population is very smart and well educated, if they only work 30 hour weeks and have mountains of red tape to do business, then businesses will look to locate else where and that has been the down fall of the EU over the last 15 years.

The problem with the EU is that there is a lot of deadweight. IF you look at just Germany it's economically pretty strong and is the rising tide that lifts all boats in the E.U. That's why it's especially troubling that they are deciding to commit cultural/demographic suicide now.

On the other hand the southern european countries are complete basket cases.

Italy is a low productive output country that takes on immense debt, most of the elites there live off generational wealth, negative birth rate, and seems to not be able to handle its own internal corruption still. Italy is like the gold digger who keeps running through credit cards and keeps asking her sponsor to kick her down a new one each time it's maxxed out.

Spain subsists on tourist dollars, the longest running real estate bubble, and also has an absurd debt ratio.

Greece is simply done.

These southern european countries create massive drag for actual productive nations in the E.U.

Yes, you are right. But the countries in the EU who do the best (Germany especially) work longer hours and have less red tape than the other countries who are lacking behind (Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy).

The more red tape, the less your people work, the more govt. involvement in business, the less productive you will be and the more you will fall behind everyone else. Govt. simply is not efficient and the more of it you have, the more inefficient you will be.

Companies exist to make a profit. And they will move to where they can make a profit, and if one country offers better opportunities, they will likely move part or even all of their company to the better opportunity country.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

These southern european countries create massive drag for actual productive nations in the E.U.

I've heard some argue that they bring down the value of the Euro, which is a benefit for Germany's export-oriented economy.

[Wutang]

As for the Germany working less hours things:

I know someone who works for a German company and he said that Germans are no nonsense when it comes to their work day. Once they arrive at the work site (on time of course) they'll put their head down grind away for the entire day with no time taken off for BS. He contrasted this the typical American work day where you bullshit for the first 30 minutes of the morning, goofing around reading the news or checking your Facebook not to mention all the frequent time wasted bantering around the water cooler. I'm guessing that the reason Germany can be so productive and wealthy despite working less hours on average then Americans is because it's full of people like this.

It just goes to show much the nature and culture of a people determines how a society is. It's the big elephant in the room and a big taboo to bring up in modern day society since it implies that people and even more un-PC, that GROUPS of people are not the same and that you can detect certain behavioral trends on average that differentiates culture A from culture B. When people discuss the merits of Nordic style social democracy and welfare-ism this is a factor that rarely gets discussed - people assume that any sort of society that had Nordic style welfare would turn into Sweden, Denmark, or Norway. I seriously doubt if you brought these sort of policies into say Morocco that it would turn into a place similar to Sweden. I would say the same for certain states in the United States as well. Perhaps it would work in a place like New York City or San Francisco but I can't imagine it working in say West Virginia.

As a matter of fact, current day Holland, Sweden, Germany and other such countries are great examples of what would happen if you imposed these sort of welfare policies on people who aren't as inclined to work and and as well-behaved as Germans, Swedes. etc. The Muslim populations in these countries if anything get even more help and opportunities then the native population yet they are still massively under performing.

[El Chinito loco]

(01-29-2016 06:21 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

Quote:

These southern european countries create massive drag for actual productive nations in the E.U.

I've heard some argue that they bring down the value of the Euro, which is a benefit for Germany's export-oriented economy.

That's probably a tertiary benefit at best but it's definitely not the driving factor of what makes Germany a strong economy. I'm not an economist but it seems the negatives of having that much dead weight in the E.U. far outweighs the positives of the possible currenct impacts.

It goes back to the basics..German work ethic, engineering, and the way they do business is just far superior to the southern european way of doing things.

If you do business with Germans you're pretty sure you're going to get what you bargained for. That's always been their strong point.

[RexImperator]

Quote:

It goes back to the basics..German work ethic, engineering, and the way they do business

Like this?

Kidding. I think you're referring to "The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" by Max Weber.

[Parzival]

A human being can be productive just a few hours a day, so work longer really depends on the job. To I have to meet customers? Do a 3 hour dinner with them? Stuff like that blows up your working hours a lot. You never can do this stuff as a factory worker or in a blue colour job. Its more a sales or manager job, not the one of a construction worker.
When I was in Japan, they work also super long but waste a lot of time just be at work but not productive. Why should I spend 10 yours a day at work when I can do the same stuff in 6 hours? Working hours say nothing about how productive a society is. Germans are high productive but many other countries work more. Even in Germany, the state in Bavaria has the most public holidays but leads with productivity.

Its about work smart, not hard. When I start at work, I work till the break. There is sometimes a breakfast brake from 15 to 30 minutes and lunch is 30 to 60 minutes. Depends on the company. Beside that there is not much not-doing going on. At my last student job I worked for science research. We had a student room and it could happen that you just do a few talks during the work time, all is silent and everyone works. Then you have lunch break, it start punctual and ends so. Then everyone goes back to work.
Nobody is forced to stay extra hours just to show how hard he work, sure this happen in some jobs but its in general not common in Germany.

About the money you earn, they did some research about what amount of money makes happy, if I'm right it was about 75.000€. After this you don't gain anything more in happinesses. Personal I would prefer the 50.000€ and 40 hour job with a little rise in salary then the 80.0000 and 60 hour job. For what? I consider time for myself, my family and friends more important than be at work and make an extra salary that I don't need necessary. You can say I'm not hungry, I guess to some fact its true. I don't need fancy stuff to show off, when I have a decent apartment, not starving and don't have to worry all the time about money its fine for me.

The more you think you need to own, the more you are in the hamster. I get the point where people scarify a lot to get rich fast, well I wasted a lot of time in my life from a career perspective, but I used it to travel, to grow as human. Not sure if you can do the same when you work 60 hours and have with 40 your midlife crisise because you ask yourself why the hell am I doing this?
When I could chose between 1000 € monthly income, work just 20 hours and live in SEA or a 100.000€ annual income but have no free time at all, I would chose the first.

In the future robots, apps and stuff like that will to the basic work anyway, Internet of things will make a lot of jobs useless. Also a big difference between the USA and Germany for example, all the manufacturing companies are still in Germany. Sure they outsource stuff but many come back because of the work quality they get in Germany. All those big companies like Amazon, Google, Apple, Uber and so on maybe worth billions in stocks, but how many employees they have and what do they earn? Compare this to a German factory worker with his 35 or 40 hour work week.
Maybe in the future all the machines and programs will do the work in the factories, then we have to think what will we do with all those people with no job? There is talk out there about basic free income. I know some people need work and it teach you a lot of discipline. When you have just free time a lot of people go down fast. Still its about balance for your private life as well. Our society should focus more how to develop a good personality with value then just educate you to be a drone in the working system. Personal satisfaction should be important as well, deeper satisfaction. How a society give more individual freedom and create true value, not just by consuming stuff. By a new phone every 6 months is not really a deeper value for society.

[It_is_my_time]

(01-30-2016 06:27 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

A human being can be productive just a few hours a day, so work longer really depends on the job. To I have to meet customers? Do a 3 hour dinner with them? Stuff like that blows up your working hours a lot. You never can do this stuff as a factory worker or in a blue colour job. Its more a sales or manager job, not the one of a construction worker.

This could be true, but it is an unknown. What is known is companies are not locating to the EU and many have looked to expand into other more business friendly cultures. Which is the real elephant in the room, the mountains of red tape the European governments create for businesses to practice there. It is a great reason why the EU is drowning in debt.

(01-30-2016 06:27 PM)Parzival Wrote:  

About the money you earn, they did some research about what amount of money makes happy, if I'm right it was about 75.000€. After this you don't gain anything more in happinesses. Personal I would prefer the 50.000€ and 40 hour job with a little rise in salary then the 80.0000 and 60 hour job. For what? I consider time for myself, my family and friends more important than be at work and make an extra salary that I don't need necessary. You can say I'm not hungry, I guess to some fact its true. I don't need fancy stuff to show off, when I have a decent apartment, not starving and don't have to worry all the time about money its fine for me.

The more you think you need to own, the more you are in the hamster. I get the point where people scarify a lot to get rich fast, well I wasted a lot of time in my life from a career perspective, but I used it to travel, to grow as human. Not sure if you can do the same when you work 60 hours and have with 40 your midlife crisise because you ask yourself why the hell am I doing this?
When I could chose between 1000 € monthly income, work just 20 hours and live in SEA or a 100.000€ annual income but have no free time at all, I would chose the first.

To each their own. I would rather work more and have more money. But not to buy things, that would be wasteful to me. I use the extra money I make to invest and grow. It is why I no longer have to work, I just choose to do so for the time being. And knowing I no longer have to work is the best feeling in the world.

[Parzival]

(01-30-2016 06:51 PM)It_is_my_time Wrote:  

To each their own. I would rather work more and have more money. But not to buy things, that would be wasteful to me. I use the extra money I make to invest and grow. It is why I no longer have to work, I just choose to do so for the time being. And knowing I no longer have to work is the best feeling in the world.

Which I consider a more wiser decision. In the US you have the mindest for something like this. In Germany we lack it. The welfare state will collapse soon, not just because of the migrant crisis and the money you get when you retire will just enough that you don't die from starving. But invest money, start ups, location independent income are not common ideas in Germany.

The only jobs you can do in Germany that increase your money are sales job. For every other job, put more work into it don't let your income grow. People have to think how they can keep the standard of living in the future, so I plan to invest my money too to create an extra income. And then maybe I can live of from the 1000 € at some beach.

[Centurion]

(01-28-2016 09:30 PM)Moma Wrote:  

My point earlier, was that the poster who stated that US is great for the top percentage is correct.

But most people are average and for the average person, Europe is best.

But isn't Sweden, Germany etc poorer than most US states?

[RaccoonFace]

Posted this one in the migrant invasion thread and I think it's also relevant here.

Quote:

To those of calling those fleeing Europe cowards:
Do you even know what living here is like?
Sure, we got healthcare and a pretty high standard of living. We are mostly well off and don't have much crime or anything. But at what cost?

I'll tell you: we have no freedom.
We have to pay ridiculous amounts of taxes and fees. The average German is working from January till July or August just to pay his taxes. We have dumb shit like dog tax, dog licenses... We are the country of licenses. Anything fun to do, chances are it's illegal or you need a license.

The country is a bureaucratic nightmare, everything is regulated or mandated, controlled or planned.
We have to jump through tons of hoops to own guns, our 'constitution' (basic law) is made to limit rights of people, not of government.

Then there's the people. Most people here think freedom is a joke. Then they all have this smug self righteousness and superiority complex, while being totally brainwashed and eager to obey every asinine law and rat out everyone who doesn't. Discussion, especially political discourse, is dead. It is always just ad hominems and fallacies while claiming to be tolerant.

Those virtues and values that /pol/ likes to see in Germans don't exist anymore in the general population. There won't be an awakening, because being a bitch is the status quo. It is literally our culture now.
Living here is not hard or bad, but it's not fun or exciting or fullfilling... and soon it's not even going to be safe anymore. It's all falling apart.

So why should the few of us who realize what's going on stay to fight? Nobody wants us to fight, nobody wants what we would be fighting for. So why should we not fight just for ourselves and get the fuck out of here?
That is not cowardice, but realistic.

[Dalaran1991]

Having been born in Vietnam, lived 4 years in USA and now 2 years and working in France, I still can't decide which one has more "freedom".

Yes, I miss the fact that I could order a katana on Amazon or buy a gun from walmart. I also remembered the campus police showing up at the dorm and advised me to return my katana because it would cause trouble.

I miss the 40$ Levis jeans but the cheapest phone plan is about 60$, while in France a pair of Levis is 100 euros but a phone plan complete with internet wifi for my house is 20 euro a month.

You have "freedom of speech" in USA? What a joke. Political correctness is much stronger in USA than in Europe. In France there are a lot of die hard leftists but also a lot of die hard traditionals, and voicing your opinions is more or less your own business. You can't get fired for it here unlike in the US.

About that. Finding a job here is hard, but once you got it you are set. Short of physically assaulting someone you can not be fired. I don't like having to work my ass off and getting ready to leave my job any time like in USA. It's mentally exhausting.

The food and diet is better than in USA. Look at your average Euro chick vs an average US chick to see. About that, both have horrible attitudes but the Euro ones are skinnier.

Redtape is fucking insane in Europe compared to USA, but unless you are doing business this shouldn't bother you more than a few times a year. However there are other risks such as an illegal immigrants invading your home and claiming it as his own.

You dont have to worry about false rape accusation here.

I still can't decide which one is better but currently I would not trade EU for USA. That said if the migrant invasion gets worse, who knows?

I don't care much for Trump or any president because educated Asians are not really his friends, and I doubt he give a shit about us or Europe.