[Vaun]

screw it CP, vent all you want here. This is probably one of the better places to do it.

Just dont share anything that can be connected to your case - Had to say it....

[asdfk]

^I have not been in the same situation as you. So take the following with a grain of salt.

I'm a big fan of revenge. People who say "living good is the best revenge" don't have any fucking self-esteem.

There are levels to this shit. If there is a disagreement and one side gets lucky or wins graciously, that's fine. But if someone, be it a man or a woman, goes out of his or her way to make your life hell or destroy an aspect of it you love, then "letting go" is the worst thing you can do. You are making Earth a worse place.

Fuck recycling. Taking calculated and appropriate revenge is some of the best things you can do for the planet.

Some men might go: "Oh asdfk, how negative." Well, if you don't do anything she will continue to do it to others because there are zero repercussions. In essence you are saying that what they are destroying doesn't matter enough to defend or avenge it. You learnt her that she can destroy someone to get what she wants.

On the other hand, your desire to flaunt a younger woman or post revenge porn sounds more like passive aggressiveness. This is not what I am talking about. It is not proportionate to what she did and it's likely to get you in more trouble.

She treats you like you are disposable, a puppet for her own needs. Any counter-measure you take should be the opposite. An action that shows you are the boss of your own life, that you won't be commanded by anyone and that your happiness and success are not disposable. Therefore, any action that not only hurts her but also you or your children is not acceptable.

Because the dire situation you are in, it's probably not now. You are clearly disadvantaged. I wouldn't think of this as much as revenge, but more as not allowing her to get away easy.

Don't think about petty and passive-aggressive actions. Wait it out. Sooner or later she will make a mistake, be it in 6 months or 10 years. Because of your kids, she won't be out of your life anytime soon.

And when she does make a mistake, you'll be there.

Be patient and never do something that hurts you or the bond with your kids. You are not disposable.

[Vaun]

(04-03-2017 09:39 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

^I have not been in the same situation as you. So take the following with a grain of salt.

I'm a big fan of revenge. People who say "living good is the best revenge" don't have any fucking self-esteem.

Well, as long as you have the attention span and massive disposable income for an attorney to "catch her" doing something long after your divorce, have at it. That won't impact anything else in your life. I would imagine you are talking about only when she breaks your agreement, correct?

[Caractacus Potts]

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts. This has had me tied up the past few days.

I know I am in the right but with the family court system that doesn't always matter. I keep coming back to her attorney's Motion to Modify Custody and Restrict Parenting Time. In it he is asking that I be restricted to supervised visitation, not allowed at school, not allowed to call or text, be forced to undergo a mental health evaluation, etc.

I know that there is hardly any chance for that to happen as this is the first time since the divorce finalized that we are appearing and there have not been any serious issues. But it plays with my mind.

I feel like I am slipping back into depression. I'm not sleeping. I can tell how stressed I am by the stink of my perspiration.

I've spent too much time in this chair on the computer. Looking up everything I can online to help myself for courts and ensure the attorneys do everything they are supposed to to help me and not phone it in.

I've spent a lot of time on the site, FramedFathers. I'm sorry it hasn't been updated and some of the links on it are inactive. Still a good site, though. I suggest checking it out.

http://framedfathers.proboards.com/threa...aperwork-1

http://framedfathers.proboards.com/threa...ght-parent

[Hypno]

(04-03-2017 09:39 PM)asdfk Wrote:  

^I have not been in the same situation as you. So take the following with a grain of salt.

I'm a big fan of revenge. People who say "living good is the best revenge" don't have any fucking self-esteem.

There are levels to this shit. If there is a disagreement and one side gets lucky or wins graciously, that's fine. But if someone, be it a man or a woman, goes out of his or her way to make your life hell or destroy an aspect of it you love, then "letting go" is the worst thing you can do. You are making Earth a worse place.

Fuck recycling. Taking calculated and appropriate revenge is some of the best things you can do for the planet.

Some men might go: "Oh asdfk, how negative." Well, if you don't do anything she will continue to do it to others because there are zero repercussions. In essence you are saying that what they are destroying doesn't matter enough to defend or avenge it. You learnt her that she can destroy someone to get what she wants.

On the other hand, your desire to flaunt a younger woman or post revenge porn sounds more like passive aggressiveness. This is not what I am talking about. It is not proportionate to what she did and it's likely to get you in more trouble.

She treats you like you are disposable, a puppet for her own needs. Any counter-measure you take should be the opposite. An action that shows you are the boss of your own life, that you won't be commanded by anyone and that your happiness and success are not disposable. Therefore, any action that not only hurts her but also you or your children is not acceptable.

Because the dire situation you are in, it's probably not now. You are clearly disadvantaged. I wouldn't think of this as much as revenge, but more as not allowing her to get away easy.

Don't think about petty and passive-aggressive actions. Wait it out. Sooner or later she will make a mistake, be it in 6 months or 10 years. Because of your kids, she won't be out of your life anytime soon.

And when she does make a mistake, you'll be there.

Be patient and never do something that hurts you or the bond with your kids. You are not disposable.

I think the logic is that the situation is a sunk cost, and revenge is a mental/emotional/financial investment in that sunk cost. Further, from any one man's perspective, you maximize your mental/emotional/financial resources by just letting go of the situation.

You have a point that on some levels you are letting people get away with stuff that they should be held accountable. But most of us do not have unlimited mental/emotional/financial resources to use to indulge in revenge or to play policeman.

You can't control all situations in life, especially after the milk has been spilled. But you can control how you react to something. I'm not saying roll over in court, but revenge is something altogether different and one consider whether its healthy. I don't believe it is in most situations.

[RunsWithScissors]

A major regret I have from my time in the court system was letting the stress from that situation sometimes overwhelm me and not keeping on top of the things that make me feel good and stay healthy. I stopped going to the gym (told myself I didn't have time and was too exhausted from dealing with everything), wasted time on the couch zoning out instead of riding my bike or walking by the river or reading, and was less social. Even with a massive amount of support from my family, a girlfriend, and a couple of friends, the experience was exhausting. I persevered through it and came out of it a better man and father, but it was hard.

Your comment about spending too much time in the computer chair made me remember all that. Be sure to take care of yourself. Get exercise, get sleep, eat well, be social.

Lawyers (via our exes) will ask for ridiculous shit in the motions, I think as a ploy thinking if they ask for too much they will still get what they want even if they don't get what they ask for. Mine file motions for Sole Decision Making and to Relocate the kids, claiming I was dangerous to the well-being of the children and that they were better off without me. I was scared shitless that people would believe her and I'd lose my kids. I didn't trust my lawyers and would sometimes blow their minds by quote statutes to them during our meetings, from all the research I've done.

If you've adhered to the Separation Agreement and she hasn't, I don't see how things can get any worse for you. At least in my state you have to actually do something harmful to the children before they will restrict parenting time.

I'm not familiar with framedfathers, I spent a lot of time on the Dad's Divorce forums when I was in the thick of things and they gave tough love support a lot like this forum does.

You've got this, man.

[doc holliday]

CP its understandable to be stressing like crazy but I really believe that she's the one who's in serious trouble here not you. The idea that she can just up and go to Florida on your parenting time is beyond absurd to me and the court is going to see it the same way. After all, the court's number one job is to enforce agreements and contracts, especially contracts that it sanctified such as your current SA. So lets look at this logically, which party here seriously breached this agreement? Well that's quite obvious here. Sure, you were supposed to keep your distance but given the circumstances and her absolute and obvious breaking of the agreement I don't think the court is going to care very much about what you did. This whole idea that they want to reduce you to supervised visitation is a total joke and it will go nowhere.

Your number one job though is to remain CALM, live your life, and be humble yet resolute when you walk into court. Make sure you and your lawyer are on the same page and that he believes in your case and you'll win. Like I said above, I'd file a counter motion for her to pay your legal bill since this is all her fault. This fight you're gonna win, I have very little doubt about this.

[Kwisatz]

Screw the Bitch: Divorce Tactics for Men, by Dick Hart is a book that a close friend of mine used to navigate his divorce. To be clear, its a book of ruthless, legal, dirty tricks designed to give a man the upper hand.

I read the book (its very short) and asked him what parts of the book he used, he said "All of them!" It actually worked! He walked away clean and with zero losses.

The main thing was that he had to strike first and be pro-active in every single stage of the process.

You can buy it online or search for a pirate .pdf since it is out of print.

https://www.amazon.com/Screw-Bitch-Divor...1893626318

https://books.google.com.br/books/about/...edir_esc=y

Ever been wronged by somebody you can't strike back at? Being hassled by an obnoxious bureaucrat who has the law on his side, for example? The books in this section will show you a multitude of ways that you can get even with anybody and remain anonymous. We must warn you these books are sold for entertainment purposes only!
"If an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, then, Screw The Bitch should be worth approximately 16 times the cover price". -- Aladdin's Window

A no-holds-barred, one-sided look at getting the most out of a divorce. You will learn to:
-- See the warning signs of a break-up
-- Head-off the dirty tricks wives will use
-- Hide your assets, income and private affairs
-- Move into your own place
-- Get the most out of your lawyer
-- Win court battles
-- And much more.

[Vaun]

(04-05-2017 11:24 AM)Kwisatz Wrote:  

Screw the Bitch: Divorce Tactics for Men, by Dick Hart is a book that a close friend of mine used to navigate his divorce. To be clear, its a book of ruthless, legal, dirty tricks designed to give a man the upper hand.

I read the book (its very short) and asked him what parts of the book he used, he said "All of them!" It actually worked! He walked away clean and with zero losses.

The main thing was that he had to strike first and be pro-active in every single stage of the process.

You can buy it online or search for a pirate .pdf since it is out of print.

https://www.amazon.com/Screw-Bitch-Divor...1893626318

https://books.google.com.br/books/about/...edir_esc=y

Ever been wronged by somebody you can't strike back at? Being hassled by an obnoxious bureaucrat who has the law on his side, for example? The books in this section will show you a multitude of ways that you can get even with anybody and remain anonymous. We must warn you these books are sold for entertainment purposes only!
"If an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, then, Screw The Bitch should be worth approximately 16 times the cover price". -- Aladdin's Window

A no-holds-barred, one-sided look at getting the most out of a divorce. You will learn to:
-- See the warning signs of a break-up
-- Head-off the dirty tricks wives will use
-- Hide your assets, income and private affairs
-- Move into your own place
-- Get the most out of your lawyer
-- Win court battles
-- And much more.

To add, the Dads Divorce forum has a few killer threads that are famous. Every man should read it, at whatever stage in your divorce. "The List" is the thread to check out.

[Turnus]

^^^
Another vote for the Dad's Divorce Forum. Those guys literally saved me as I was going through my divorce and I credit the guys on that forum for being the ones that helped me get primary custody of the kids, pay no alimony, keep my house, and actually receive child support from the ex.

[Caractacus Potts]

I talked with the attorneys yesterday. They are back in court next Wednesday. They are going to talk to her attorney and see if they can figure out what she wants prior.

They are concerned that I am in violation of an Agreed Order. Without going into too much detail I am not supposed to have any contact with the younger child. It also says I am not to try and communicate with her through the older child.

Whenever I text the older one I always tell her to remind the younger one that I love her and miss her. The attorneys say it doesn't matter that the ex is in violation when she brings the younger one around or texts me a pic of the two girls. Apparently only I can violate the Order. They keep returning to the fact that I signed the Order.

I should have never signed it. My former attorneys told me to sign it because it was early on in the divorce. They kept pushing me to do everything the other side wanted; saying it would show the judge that I am agreeable and willing to compromise. I now wonder if they were in league together.

The younger child will be nine this summer. It has been four years since I have had any meaningful contact with her. Another nine years and she won't have any memories of me.

She and her lawyer say I am hurting the older child by talking to her and trying to force her to act as my agent. The counselor said otherwise. She said I am showing the older child I have not stopped loving the younger one so she need not fear that I may someday stop loving her.

I hope there is a real warm place in Hell for these people.

CP

[Vaun]

CP - I cant even begin to know what you are going through right now. Keep posting here if you need to, or PM me or people here when it gets overwhelming. All I would say is, its time to saddle up and explore getting a new, aggressive mens advocate attorney, and maybe dump the ones you have now. Obviously the first lawyers you had were terrible. I would take this over to Dads Divorce and start asking questions and start research better attorney's as well.

[Cattle Rustler]

Those who say "living good is the best revenge" haven't heard some wise words from Tupac:

"Revenge is like the sweetest joy next to gettin pussy."

[RunsWithScissors]

I agree with Vaun, sometimes just interviewing other lawyers can help give new insights. If you're willing to share what state you're in we may be able to make recommendations.

[Caractacus Potts]

(04-06-2017 12:08 PM)RunsWithScissors Wrote:  

I agree with Vaun, sometimes just interviewing other lawyers can help give new insights. If you're willing to share what state you're in we may be able to make recommendations.

I'm in Illinois.

To be clear: I am NOT using the same attorneys I used before.

I asked a retired family court judge for a recommendation. The guy he recommended recommended the one I have now.

CP

[PapayaTapper]

CP

Is there any way to turn this to your advantage? Specifically an opportunity to "reopen" the original SA?

What about hiring a PI to get "dirt" on her or the chickenshit boyfriend?

I'm in the "don't do anything stupid and further jeopardize your rights to your kids camp" but is she vulnerable there? Has she (or him) ever had a drug problem? Arrested?

Will this be in front of the same judge or a different one? If the latter then you might very well get a completely different outcome...hopefully

[Vaun]

These guys are noted as the premiere fathers rights attorneys in the US - http://cordellcordell.com/offices/illinois/ They practice in Illinois, I would suggest getting a free consult from them.

Much of the available advice out there on the web and on "The List" at Dads Divorce concerns the beginning of the divorce. I used "The List", and fought off my ex's raging high profile feminist divorce attorney, who my ex ultimately fired(she went through three lawyers because of the strength of my case). I started with nothing, the standard false allegations, supervised weekly visitation for 2 hours, to a fully negotiated and mediated 50/50 visitation/custody/decision making agreement. With no alimony and a workable child support agreement. At first it was a battle, a war. I created leverage. Leverage to fight and squash any unjust moves on her part, and use the leverage to negotiate a good solution for everyone. Its been this way for 7 years. Just a few more to go... Watching her fire her lawyers was hilarious, because none of them, even my attorney, ever saw a father fight for his rights like me. Now its en vogue..

CP - Your case is very different than what most of the advice out there caters to. You are in a cold war, many years in. You have to find a way to create leverage now, disregarding the past. First off I wouldn't break any orders from the court. Most of the advice out there is geared toward the guy entering into divorce. Thats why you need highly specialized advice from mens focused, male attorneys. I wouldn't work with a female attorney, secondly if your lawyers dont market themselves as mens/fathers rights divorce lawyers, I would seek other counsel. Try the lawyers I gave you, and go to other forums to get recommendations in your area.

[Caractacus Potts]

You won't believe this...

She texted me yesterday morning asking if we could switch weekends. My former in laws are driving through town and want to see the girls.

She presented it like she was doing me a favor giving me Easter weekend and how happy my mom would be, etc.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding. She and her lawyer are threatening me with loss of all parenting time in court and she's asking for favors. Unbelievable.

I agreed to it and let the attorneys know. They couldn't believe the audacity. lol I agreed to it because I want to show the judge that I am the agreeable one and I promised my former mother in law I would never do anything to stand in the way of them getting to spend time with the kids.

[Caractacus Potts]

(04-07-2017 07:15 AM)Vaun Wrote:  

These guys are noted as the premiere fathers rights attorneys in the US - http://cordellcordell.com/offices/illinois/ They practice in Illinois, I would suggest getting a free consult from them.

Much of the available advice out there on the web and on "The List" at Dads Divorce concerns the beginning of the divorce. I used "The List", and fought off my ex's raging high profile feminist divorce attorney, who my ex ultimately fired(she went through three lawyers because of the strength of my case). I started with nothing, the standard false allegations, supervised weekly visitation for 2 hours, to a fully negotiated and mediated 50/50 visitation/custody/decision making agreement. With no alimony and a workable child support agreement. At first it was a battle, a war. I created leverage. Leverage to fight and squash any unjust moves on her part, and use the leverage to negotiate a good solution for everyone. Its been this way for 7 years. Just a few more to go... Watching her fire her lawyers was hilarious, because none of them, even my attorney, ever saw a father fight for his rights like me. Now its en vogue..

CP - Your case is very different than what most of the advice out there caters to. You are in a cold war, many years in. You have to find a way to create leverage now, disregarding the past. First off I wouldn't break any orders from the court. Most of the advice out there is geared toward the guy entering into divorce. Thats why you need highly specialized advice from mens focused, male attorneys. I wouldn't work with a female attorney, secondly if your lawyers dont market themselves as mens/fathers rights divorce lawyers, I would seek other counsel. Try the lawyers I gave you, and go to other forums to get recommendations in your area.

Cordell and Cordell are a franchise. They allow people to set up shop using their name. I spoke to them years ago but I ended up going with someone else. The guy I went with did not deliver, obviously.

The reason I went with the guy I have now is because of the reputation this judge has. There are a couple of blogs online with people giving their account of how she screwed them over and would actively help the other side. The biggest thing I took away was to make sure I found an attorney that she likes.

I approached an attorney that I know who grew up with her. He declined to represent me. He had a conflict of interest stemming from an unrelated matter but he said anyone who takes a male client in front of her is guilty of legal malpractice. She is a known man-hater.

Which is what makes my legal pick rather amusing. He went to her alma mater and apparently she is rather fond of him. I am not attending court and am simply letting him talk my case to her. If I have to go into court I will but I am trying to avoid it as best I can.

[Sam Malone]

(04-08-2017 10:56 AM)Caractacus Potts Wrote:  

You won't believe this...

She texted me yesterday morning asking if we could switch weekends. My former in laws are driving through town and want to see the girls.

She presented it like she was doing me a favor giving me Easter weekend and how happy my mom would be, etc.

The cognitive dissonance is astounding. She and her lawyer are threatening me with loss of all parenting time in court and she's asking for favors. Unbelievable.

I agreed to it and let the attorneys know. They couldn't believe the audacity. lol I agreed to it because I want to show the judge that I am the agreeable one and I promised my former mother in law I would never do anything to stand in the way of them getting to spend time with the kids.

The bold for emphasis.

Take a screenshot of that text. Before you do that, delete her name from your contact list so the phone number shows up instead of whatever name you have your ex listed under.

One of you will look level headed, the other will look crazy. Be the level headed one.

Are her parents driving through THIS weekend ?

I would suggest as far as switching weekends is that you ALWAYS get YOURS first. If she wants them on your original weekend (for example, say the 13th-15th), you take them the 6th thru the 8th.. not the 20th to 22nd.

Otherwise she can reneg on the swap.. "Your Honor, he didn't even take his kids this/that weekend."

Whenever dealing with an ex wife and a courtroom, one always has to be in 4D Chess mode.

[doc holliday]

So I had a very interesting thing happen to me this morning. My ex wife called me, desperately wanting to talk to me. I told her to just tell me over the phone as I needed to get ready to go to work but she insisted that I meet her in my apartment parking lot in her car. So i obliged, wondering what the hell was going on. I get into her car and she breaks down crying, telling me she's sorry for the divorce and that she still loves me and that everything was her fault and so on. I'm in total shock, I never saw that coming. I told her that I wasn't mad at her and that at this point she just needs to try and move on and build a new life. But man, my mind is blown right now.

[Vaun]

(04-12-2017 02:00 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

So I had a very interesting thing happen to me this morning. My ex wife called me, desperately wanting to talk to me. I told her to just tell me over the phone as I needed to get ready to go to work but she insisted that I meet her in my apartment parking lot in her car. So i obliged, wondering what the hell was going on. I get into her car and she breaks down crying, telling me she's sorry for the divorce and that she still loves me and that everything was her fault and so on. I'm in total shock, I never saw that coming. I told her that I wasn't mad at her and that at this point she just needs to try and move on and build a new life. But man, my mind is blown right now.

Wow, thats crazy man. It sounds like you have completely moved on and handled it well. Why do you think she suddenly brought this up?

[doc holliday]

(04-12-2017 05:23 PM)Vaun Wrote:  

(04-12-2017 02:00 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

So I had a very interesting thing happen to me this morning. My ex wife called me, desperately wanting to talk to me. I told her to just tell me over the phone as I needed to get ready to go to work but she insisted that I meet her in my apartment parking lot in her car. So i obliged, wondering what the hell was going on. I get into her car and she breaks down crying, telling me she's sorry for the divorce and that she still loves me and that everything was her fault and so on. I'm in total shock, I never saw that coming. I told her that I wasn't mad at her and that at this point she just needs to try and move on and build a new life. But man, my mind is blown right now.

Wow, thats crazy man. It sounds like you have completely moved on and handled it well. Why do you think she suddenly brought this up?

I've been doing well moving on. I'm lucky that I'm generally a very happy person so I dropped whatever anger I had towards her, I've been nice to her, cooperative and helpful with the kids etc. As to what precipitated this from her, man I just don't know. She said she has felt this way since the beginning of the divorce which was almost 3 years ago and that part way through, she wanted to stop the divorce and try to work it out. My guess is that the post divorce life has been tough for her. She has had some health issues, I know that, so I was nice to her and helped her out. She said she missed our married life and wished she could have it back. Told me she had a short term boyfriend but didn't like the sex with him and got uncomfortable (said he was too rough, like I needed that info). I could write an entire book on this whole thing. So crazy, so surreal.

[BackFromTheBrink]

(04-12-2017 08:25 PM)doc holliday Wrote:  

I've been doing well moving on. I'm lucky that I'm generally a very happy person so I dropped whatever anger I had towards her, I've been nice to her, cooperative and helpful with the kids etc. As to what precipitated this from her, man I just don't know. She said she has felt this way since the beginning of the divorce which was almost 3 years ago and that part way through, she wanted to stop the divorce and try to work it out. My guess is that the post divorce life has been tough for her. She has had some health issues, I know that, so I was nice to her and helped her out. She said she missed our married life and wished she could have it back. Told me she had a short term boyfriend but didn't like the sex with him and got uncomfortable (said he was too rough, like I needed that info). I could write an entire book on this whole thing. So crazy, so surreal.

I separated from my ex over a year ago but constantly struggle to deal with the anger and resentment primarily stemming from the fact that I'm no longer able to raise my now 3 year old son in the manner that I had hoped. I commend you on being able to let go and build a new life for yourself ... I hope to be in your position in the not too distant future.

I won't bore you guys with the details of the break up or why on reflection the relationship was doomed to fail ... but as to your point on being shocked by recent events all I would say is that women often think that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence. Sometimes it just takes some time for them to realise that this is rarely the case.

[RunsWithScissors]

That's pretty amazing Doc, sounds like you handled it well. I often wish I could let go of the anger and hostility towards my ex due to her court actions to take the kids from me 3 years after we amicably divorced. She made a seemingly genuine attempt at an apology a couple months ago, even saying she would do things differently if she could do it again, so I let my guard down and started being cordial towards her. Within a month she was back to her control freak games, making accusations against me, and violating some specifics of our separation agreement so things went right back where they were before.

I recently had a conversation with my 11 year old in which he expressed his wish that me and his mom could be nicer to each other and do things like attend his school conferences together instead of individually. Part of me wants to tell him the reason I can't be friendly with his mom is because she tried to remove me from his and his brother's lives, but I don't think I'm ready to have that conversation until he starts asking more questions.