[DannyAlberta]

I must say, I much prefer the good Who, i.e. the one with Roger Daltry and Pete Townsend to this WHO with the obvious agenda to control the planet's diet.

[General Stalin]

Every other day there is a new study out that tells us something causes cancer and/or something else reduces it.

Fact is, aside from old age, cancer is listed as the #2 cause of death for humans right behind heart disease according to the CDC. Simply by probability, it is almost unavoidable. Everything under the sun (including the sun itself) has a chance of giving you cancer. Everyone knows someone or has a family member who has or had cancer at some point.

I don't mean to sound nihilist, but this alarmist shit is just that - alarmist shit.

That being said, no one ever said processed meat was good for you to begin with. I would file this under non-news.

[Foolsgo1d]

Heres what I can remember in the past 12 months from "experts".

- Red wine is good for you
- Coffee is bad!
- Sugar and salt are required for the body to work
- Red wine is bad! Women are drinking too much!
- Coffee and tea help fight dementia Coffee = good
- Salt blamed for rise in dementia

etc, etc.

People have vices, be it alcohol, smoking, drugs, adrenaline rush activities or a mixture of them. You can die from ingesting too much milk or water. You can die from all sorts of little things.

Reading a story on a boat capsizing with 5 dead in Canadian waters as they were whale watching. Yes I guarantee they died from too much meat! Or is it red wine? Shit, I forget, must be the salt intake.

Not saying you should go mental, I don't but these experts are nothing but egotistical scientists with industry funding.

[Mike5055]

What the WHO should say:

Anything in excess is bad for you. If you're going to have bacon, have it once in a while, and make sure you have a healthy diet and active lifestyle.

But hey, I'm sitting here drinking coffee.. which was bad, then good, then bad again, and now back to good.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

The problem with the current medical science is that it's not in the business of keeping us healthy. Also countries are not interested in that.

The big meta studies with massive assessment of our exact food and ingredient intake could be done quite easily. After a few years we might have enough knowledge of what constitutes the optimal human diet.

But we won't have that as long as medical science is utterly manipulated.

Fact is that we humans need very little meat and don't even require it daily. 100-150g per day is enough and even that can be replaced by high-quality protein from other sources. If you consume more, then over time the body won't be able to process it well. Also too little especially during childhood is especially dangerous.

We already know this because the Atkins fanatics incl. Atkins were all getting fat after the initial ketosis stage passed.



There is plenty of credible data out there supporting the theory that vegan food, even plenty of high-carb raw fruit (only organic) is extremely good for humans long-term. Short-term we can survive on almost anything as long as we don't overdo the caloric intake. What matters however is the long-term.

Currently we are all still poking around in the dark, because of all the interest groups out there. Sooner or later humanity will know the optimal human diet and I am sure they will find out very surprising things maybe prolonging our life span to our natural age of 140 (while being 100 and looking like a well-trained 55 year old). There are already genetic tests out there which claim that our real genetic potential age is 140, so we are obviously dying prematurely. But I don't expect any clarity coming forward on that front in our system.

[Veloce]

(10-26-2015 11:08 PM)Troll King Wrote:  

As a former butcher, you guys really don't want to know what is in processed meat. Basically most hot dogs, canned hams, bologna, and the such are everything that can't be used in some way. The only other stuff is what is usually made into dog food from the bone bucket.

In large scale, commercial processing, yes.

But guys don't run from preserved pork products. There's a huge difference between this:



and this:



I do a lot of my own curing at home or at work. Homemade bacon, ham, etc. Lately I've been on a hotdog kick too but I'm buying these:
They're probably the best hot dog I've ever had.

Articles that say things like "avoid hot dogs" should themselves be avoided. There's a whole range of quality available out there.

Better advice would be: avoid cheap, poor quality food. Buy the best you can afford.

[glugger]

This article explains the findings with more context:
http://www.wired.com/2015/10/who-does-ba...ot-really/

Quote:

The scientific evidence linking both processed meat and tobacco to certain types of cancer is strong. In that sense, both are carcinogens. But smoking increases your relative risk of lung cancer by 2,500 percent; eating two slices of bacon a day increases your relative risk for colorectal cancer by 18 percent. Given the frequency of colorectal cancer, that means your risk of getting colorectal cancer over your life goes from about 5 percent to 6 percent and, well, YBMMV. (Your bacon mileage may vary.)

The rest of the article basically says that IARC give objective analysis, it doesn't say whether or not the risk is high or not.

Quote:

In recent years, says Boffetta, the agency has gotten a lot of attention each time it classified something, and those actions often get “overinterpreted.”
“X causes cancer” does not mean that X will definitely give you cancer; it just means that X increases your risk of cancer by some amount, and it can vary wildly from a tiny tiny percentage to 25 fold. Does bacon cause cancer? Sure. A little. Will bacon cause cancer in you? Probably not.

[greekgod]

Expect to see a levy/tax on cured meats in the future. It will be under the guise of; this causes cancer which stresses the healthcare system. If you want to eat it; you have to pay for your eventual unnecessary healthcare.

[wi30]

I will preface my comment by saying that I have no scientific or nutritional background, and can only rely on my own experiences.

I hated vegetables as a kid and I hate vegetables as an adult. I like corn, potatoes, and carrots, yet they aren't good in large quantities. Therefore, I limit them. I've never liked greens. I don't eat them. The only one I can tolerate is spinach. I sometimes have it on a sandwich but usually the only time I get greens in my system is when I dump my post-workout shake into the blender and throw in a handful of frozen spinach.

At least 70% of my diet is meat. I go through a five pound bag of chicken breasts every 2-3 days. I also buy a set of steaks and a rack of ribs every trip to the grocery store. I eat my steaks rare out of preference not because of carcinogenics. And you can never take burnt ends away from me. I don't care how much cancer they cause.

I used to eat tons of carbs. Breads, pastas, beer, potatoes every meal, you name it. One thing I've learned is that the more carbs I eat, the fatter I get. The less carbs I eat, the better I look and feel. I used to eat mostly carbs and my belly proved it.

Maybe I'm a genetic anomaly, but I went months on end making smoothies with the recommended amount of fruits and veggies. I felt and looked no different. Hell, I could go the rest of my life without a bite of fruit. Wouldn't make a difference to me. I could probably cut the spinach out of my shakes too and wouldn't notice.

What I have learned is that I look and feel my best when eating mostly meat. I must note that I limit processed meats. I don't eat much deli meat anymore, and completely avoid the "frankenmeats" that are hot dogs or bologna. Brats for tailgates only.

In conclusion, I will never understand how one can live entirely off a plant based diet. I'm sure I would be a nightmare client for a nutritionist, but constantly get asked for workout and diet advice. I tell everyone who asks to eat more meat and less carbs. I do take a multivitamin, but forget to take it most of the time. No other supplements. Glad girls are the ones who take birth control.

[Quintus Curtius]

I don't care. I'm going to continue to eat them in moderation.

[rpg]

(10-27-2015 10:51 PM)wi30 Wrote:  

I will preface my comment by saying that I have no scientific or nutritional background, and can only rely on my own experiences.

I hated vegetables as a kid and I hate vegetables as an adult. I like corn, potatoes, and carrots, yet they aren't good in large quantities. Therefore, I limit them. I've never liked greens. I don't eat them. The only one I can tolerate is spinach. I sometimes have it on a sandwich but usually the only time I get greens in my system is when I dump my post-workout shake into the blender and throw in a handful of frozen spinach.

At least 70% of my diet is meat. I go through a five pound bag of chicken breasts every 2-3 days. I also buy a set of steaks and a rack of ribs every trip to the grocery store. I eat my steaks rare out of preference not because of carcinogenics. And you can never take burnt ends away from me. I don't care how much cancer they cause.

I used to eat tons of carbs. Breads, pastas, beer, potatoes every meal, you name it. One thing I've learned is that the more carbs I eat, the fatter I get. The less carbs I eat, the better I look and feel. I used to eat mostly carbs and my belly proved it.

Maybe I'm a genetic anomaly, but I went months on end making smoothies with the recommended amount of fruits and veggies. I felt and looked no different. Hell, I could go the rest of my life without a bite of fruit. Wouldn't make a difference to me. I could probably cut the spinach out of my shakes too and wouldn't notice.

What I have learned is that I look and feel my best when eating mostly meat. I must note that I limit processed meats. I don't eat much deli meat anymore, and completely avoid the "frankenmeats" that are hot dogs or bologna. Brats for tailgates only.

In conclusion, I will never understand how one can live entirely off a plant based diet. I'm sure I would be a nightmare client for a nutritionist, but constantly get asked for workout and diet advice. I tell everyone who asks to eat more meat and less carbs. I do take a multivitamin, but forget to take it most of the time. No other supplements. Glad girls are the ones who take birth control.

Cavemen would agree. For hundreds of thousands of years they went from meat to meat with berries and plants on the side. It worked well for them.

[wi30]

rpg, when I choke down (non starchy)veggies, I don't feel full. And most carbs make me sluggish. Meat is not only the best tasting food, but makes me feel full, strong, and happy.

I hope someone with experience in being a vegetarian/vegan can weigh in on this. I've never lived on the other side of the coin so I don't really know what I'm missing. My bet is that I would feel weak and shitty if I didn't eat meat. And for those who will undoubtedly preach protein substitutes, they are just that; substitutes for the real thing. Why buy a pocket pussy when you could have a real girl?

[RichieP]

AFAIK, this "evidence" is still based on observational studies that largely don't control for other factors like sugar consumption and other lifestyle factors.

They basically asked people how many times they ate meat last week, so e.g. pepperoni on a pizza counts. People who eat "processed meat" frequently are generally people eating large amounts of junk food, excess sugar, not getting enough exercise, etc.

This vid explains it well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy0NHVZ3OF4

Processed meat is definitely worth minimizing - nitrates and all those carcinogens etc. You can replace with clean meats - chicken breast, organic grass fed beef, etc. But don't write off meat in general (or even red meat) based on the 'evidence', because it's not controlling for the other cancer-causing factors.

[RichieP]

Oh btw, let's look at the actual 'findings':

"WHO found that eating 50g of processed meats such as ham, bacon, salami or sausages each day could increase the risk of colorectal cancer by 18 per cent."

That's 18 PERCENT not 18 PERCENTAGE POINTS...LOL.

Given the lifetime-risk for a given western male to get colon cancer is about 1 in 15 (7%), that 18% relative increase takes you to under 8.5%.

Eat bacon every day for breakfast and you go from 7% chance to an 8.5% chance of colon cancer. Lol.

Can't really blame the WHO, they're reporting the stats, but sensationalist media + general lack of understanding of statistics = massive scare when there's no need for it.

Let's focus on the real killers - sugar, smoking, sedentary lifestyle, etc.

[Dr. Howard]

(10-27-2015 01:04 PM)Veloce Wrote:  

(10-26-2015 11:08 PM)Troll King Wrote:  

As a former butcher, you guys really don't want to know what is in processed meat. Basically most hot dogs, canned hams, bologna, and the such are everything that can't be used in some way. The only other stuff is what is usually made into dog food from the bone bucket.

In large scale, commercial processing, yes.

But guys don't run from preserved pork products. There's a huge difference between this:



and this:

...

sidenote: Don't knock all of hormel just because they have shitty product lines, they also have 'undercover' product lines. There was a guy at our church that was a hormel sales rep (best job ever?) and he would bring some of the best bacon and ham I've ever had. Try anything under the hormel 'cure 81' label and you will be amazed.

I also will repost on the uncured meats idea, if you can find ham or bacon that is grey in color vs. pink (on purpose, not spoiled) that is not made with nitrites and nitrates and is better for you.

[K Galt]

I did the research on this topic, years ago.

http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/...ll_24.html

http://hawaiianlibertarian.blogspot.com/...orism.html


At least once a year, this bullshit gets recycled and regurgitated by the mass media.

Every single instance of "red meat" or "processed meat" "studies" that get associated with cancer, is ALWAYS based on compiling questionnaire surveys statistics and drawing correlations with cancer statistics.

i.e. there is NO SCIENCE involved. They are not locking up a control group and feeding them processed meats for a determined period of time while feeding another control group a vegan diet, than comparing who gets cancer and who does not after a predetermined period of time.

There is NO SCIENTIFIC METHOD involved in these "studies."

Remember the first rule of statistics: correlation does not equal causation.

No...the lying liars behind producing this sort of propaganda, are touting studies based on asking people in surveys typical questions like this:

"In the last 6 months, how many times a week did you eat cheeseburgers:

a) At least 5 times a week
b) At least 3 times a week
c) Once a week
d) Never

In the last 6 months, how many times a week did you eat pizza:

a) At least 5 times a week
b) At least 3 times a week
c) Once a week
d) Never"

From compiling the results of these survey questions, they then publicize "RECENT STUDIES SHOW THAT RED MEAT/SATURATED FAT/PROCESSED MEAT {insert predetermined boogyman} HAS BEEN LINKED TO CANCER"

It's all bullshit.

Enjoy your bacon for breakfast.

Remember too, that ALL meat is "processed." Your real focus should be on additives and fillers.

The grass fed beef sausages naturally cured with salt is a far cry from cheap ass hotdogs full of corn syrup, dextrose, artificial colors, cellulose fiber, maltodextrin, monosodium glutamate and other goodies....

....yet both are considered "processed meat."

Read your ingredients, not mass media propaganda.

[Menace]

I bet you could compile a similar "study" that shows feminism causes cancer.

[Oz.]

After one of my original posts I decided to check up on Ricky, he seems to be doing fine

[Vronsky]

Eggs cause an increase in your cholesterol and thus are bad for you - entire 80s and 90s
Sorry, our bad, eggs are actually good for you - 2000s

Butter is terrible for you, saturated fats are evil. Eat margarine instead. - entire 80s and 90s
Oh shit, we discovered margarine is really bad for you. Butter is fine though. - 2000s

At this point, I take nutritional advice with huge grain of salt. And not having meat is not a motherfuckin' option.

[midlifealpha]

I used to weigh 320, I'm down to 235 on 6'1 frame. Still a bit of slop though I was heavy for so long I don't know what portion is still fat vs. stretched skin.

Two years ago went full-on Keto which means I shoot for 20g or less of carbs.

Generally I eat:
eggs - 2-3 times per week, always with cheese, usually cooked in Butter, with some heavy cream added to the whipped eggs
Steak - once or twice a week
Wings - (hot are less carby) 4 times a week
Hamburger - once in a while, particularly if traveling. No bun, usually cheese, pickles, mustard.
Smoked Sausage - at least once a week I eat a pound. This one could be troublesome?
Cheese - whatever I feel like
Burnt Cheese Pizza - Once a week using pepperoni so that could potentially be a problem. You can get nitrate free pepperoni I've not done it yet I probably should.

I sometimes have Bullet Proof coffee

Veggies - 3-4 times a week? Not much. Occasional Asparagus with Bacon, Spinach, Broccoli,
Fruit - Almost never
Real Whip Cream as a treat

Cholesterol 171, HDL/LDL fine, Triglycerides 71. I've been eating this way since June of 2013.

I want to see a study done on people eating less than 20g of Carbs per day.

[mogsy]

If they put people off meat and higher fat food then people are going to have to look at other alternatives, usually grains and higher carb food that can be produced easily and with high profit margins. It comes down to profitability of the big companies some low fat food options only exist because they can extract the fat content and sell it as a separate product or add it into another. Smart people these food scientists and manufacturers especially their marketing to brain wash the population.

[StrikeBack]

I like Layne Nortonś response to this mess:

[Dr. Howard]

Today I had pork brains...because well I like to try weird things. One serving has 1000% of the daily recommended intake of cholesterol, which makes sense because brains are made up largely of cholesterol and fat.

Like meat, being the best source for protein and muscle building, it only makes sense that the best brain food, is brains.

[Veloce]

(11-01-2015 06:27 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

Today I had pork brains...because well I like to try weird things. One serving has 1000% of the daily recommended intake of cholesterol, which makes sense because brains are made up largely of cholesterol and fat.

Like meat, being the best source for protein and muscle building, it only makes sense that the best brain food, is brains.

Love the flavor, but that texture...yeesh.

Probably best in moderation. A little bit of roasted brains on toast with a nice radish and herb salad is great, but I wouldn't recommend tucking into a big bowl of brains.

[SunW]

(11-01-2015 05:31 PM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

I like Layne Nortonś response to this mess:

You sir, are awesome. Notice his first question on statistics and media is "compared to what?" This dude is sharp and right on the money. I say the same thing when I hear "the rich are getting richer" - compared to what?

When he dissects the statistics, we see that it's not quite how the media are spinning it.