[BetaNoMore]

Been dating a girl for a while and she keeps pushing for LTR status. She's not too bad and has decent qualities but a glaring issue for me is she has a handful of close guy "friends." These are guys she's been close friends with well before meeting me so it may not be reasonable for me to expect her to drop these people. She said she doesn't cross boundaries with these guys. She said they "catch up" time to time in person and won't go drinking together but will go to dinners or meals. From what I can tell though, they text a lot and sometimes talk on the phone to "catch up".

She's in her early 20s and she says all her friends have close guy "friends." Maybe it's some sort of generational thing where these young people no know boundaries (as more evidence of or society's decay). There's also that study (http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...t-friends/) that states men are basically all attracted to their female friends and thought that their female friends were attracted to them too but on the female side, the women had no or little attraction to their guy friends and expected the same from the other side (although I'm not sure if I buy this from the female side).

Is this just the way things are now with chicks? Is this a huge recipe for disaster?

[godzilla]

You should meet them to understand. I had a girlfriend with a bunch of guy friends in the usa, im not a fan usually, they had met when they were lIke 5, then I met the guys and they were about as close to homo as you can be for 3 straight guys. (1 ended being gay).

You have to keep your girl in line so to speak but at the same time, getting jealous is even worse in my opinion.

Btw very common in latin america.

[eatthishomie]

Most likely beta orbiters who want to fuck her but won't. Don't worry too much but keep ya head up, run that dread game, and be prepared to lose her at any time.

[eradicator]

Is it a recipe for disaster? Your mileage may vary. It's possible she has all of them firmly friendzoned and will never fuck any of them. It's possible she already has fucked some of them but it doesn't count in her mind because they are just friends to her.

If she is pushing for full on relationship status, I would say "maybe". I would have one of the conditions be that you get to occasionally fuck her asshole. If a girl let's you fuck her in the ass, she has basically been completely dominated by you. I can almost guarantee you that these other friends in her life will not dare to fuck her in the ass.

[BetaNoMore]

(10-23-2015 08:40 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

Is it a recipe for disaster? Your mileage may vary. It's possible she has all of them firmly friendzoned and will never fuck any of them. It's possible she already has fucked some of them but it doesn't count in her mind because they are just friends to her.

If she is pushing for full on relationship status, I would say "maybe". I would have one of the conditions be that you get to occasionally fuck her asshole. If a girl let's you fuck her in the ass, she has basically been completely dominated by you. I can almost guarantee you that these other friends in her life will not dare to fuck her in the ass.

She's admitted to sleeping with one during a drunk episode and they "never talked about it." The guy isn't around and they keep in contact in a group text with another close friend.

I dunno, I'm not liking any of this.

[Vaun]

(10-23-2015 08:47 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  

She's admitted to sleeping with one during a drunk episode and they "never talked about it." The guy isn't around and they keep in contact in a group text with another close friend.

I dunno, I'm not liking any of this.

Unless the guy friends are complete pudgy loser dorks who sort of hang out with her parents; then shes probably fucked them or fucked around with them. Or they are distant serious ex boyfriends.

But why do you care. You should be just sleeping with this girl anyway. You know now she is nothing more than that.

[eradicator]

Then keep gaming other women, and keep her in rotation.

[godzilla]

(10-23-2015 08:47 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 08:40 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

Is it a recipe for disaster? Your mileage may vary. It's possible she has all of them firmly friendzoned and will never fuck any of them. It's possible she already has fucked some of them but it doesn't count in her mind because they are just friends to her.

If she is pushing for full on relationship status, I would say "maybe". I would have one of the conditions be that you get to occasionally fuck her asshole. If a girl let's you fuck her in the ass, she has basically been completely dominated by you. I can almost guarantee you that these other friends in her life will not dare to fuck her in the ass.

She's admitted to sleeping with one during a drunk episode and they "never talked about it." The guy isn't around and they keep in contact in a group text with another close friend.

I dunno, I'm not liking any of this.

Seems like you want to keep her around. You shouldn't. But if you do, since she slept with one, tell her to drop them in a polite manner and be prepared to move on if she doesnt.

[LA Savage]

(10-23-2015 09:28 PM)godzilla Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 08:47 PM)BetaNoMore Wrote:  

(10-23-2015 08:40 PM)eradicator Wrote:  

Is it a recipe for disaster? Your mileage may vary. It's possible she has all of them firmly friendzoned and will never fuck any of them. It's possible she already has fucked some of them but it doesn't count in her mind because they are just friends to her.

If she is pushing for full on relationship status, I would say "maybe". I would have one of the conditions be that you get to occasionally fuck her asshole. If a girl let's you fuck her in the ass, she has basically been completely dominated by you. I can almost guarantee you that these other friends in her life will not dare to fuck her in the ass.

She's admitted to sleeping with one during a drunk episode and they "never talked about it." The guy isn't around and they keep in contact in a group text with another close friend.

I dunno, I'm not liking any of this.

Seems like you want to keep her around. You shouldn't. But if you do, since she slept with one, tell her to drop them in a polite manner and be prepared to move on if she doesnt.

I co sign this.

I don't trust girls in general and I really don't trust girls with close guy friends. Having her as an LTR will be stressful because you will always be paranoid about what they are doing when they are together. And you said one of the guy friends anyway fucked her while she was drunk. Well history repeats itself and it's just a matter of time before she fucks another one of her guy friends and then declines responsibility of her pussy by blaming it on the alcohol. Just keep her in rotation and whatever you do don't upgrade her to LTR as it will be a huge mistake. And I noticed you said she was the one pacing for the upgrade in status. Have her eliminate those guy friends in the picture or just keep it moving as she is going to cheat on you one day. Those guy friends owe you nothing and will fuck her the moment opportunity presents itself.

[eradicator]

I disagree with the ultimatums, better to just put her on rotation and concentrate on fucking other girls. Invite her over once or twice a week and fuck her brains out and then forget about her and all her drama when she isn't around.

[Lizard King]

It will end up pissing you off further down the line if you go down the LTR route with her.

Those men probably want to fuck her but don't have the game, or think the opportunity will arise in the future.

They might be men who are far away that she will never meet, but doesn't sound like it in this situation.

In my own relationships, and those I've observed, this type of situation nearly always leads to a problem of some kind.

The woman, in her mind, rationalises that they're providing a straightforward social function. A friend to her is not how a friend is to you. When her situation changes, she will just modify her relationship with them to suit her needs, so if she's having a rough time with you, she will go to one of her male friends for support.

The other posters(your friends) have advised you what to do and how to proceed. They're telling you to maintain a strong frame. Tell her you will not LTR her, tell her she can go if she doesn't like it.

[The Black Knight]

(10-24-2015 12:20 AM)eradicator Wrote:  

I disagree with the ultimatums, better to just put her on rotation and concentrate on fucking other girls. Invite her over once or twice a week and fuck her brains out and then forget about her and all her drama when she isn't around.

This.

Ultimatums aren't going to work with most 20 something chicks (or most chicks generally speaking but especially 20 somethings who have the perfect mix of options, big egos, and ignorance); most don't even understand or want to understand the concept that they shouldn't be engaging in actions that are borderline disrespectful and show no consideration for their BF's position. In this day and age, denying a woman what she wants (no matter how ridiculous) is considered "abusive."

As far as I'm concern, a chick who wants an LTR with me should know that she cant be doing things that even give off the perception that she is fucking around. She should know better and I shouldn't have to babysit her ass. If I think I am going to have to keep a tight leash all the time, she can stay in the rotation but an LTR is out of the question.

I can recall one chick who I got along well enough with. Early 20's. Great body. Rode my cock like a fuckin pro. She wanted an LTR (which I eventually agreed to) but like yourself, I was hesitant because she had numerous guy friends and was particularly close to an ex-BF that she texted with daily and seemed quite attached too.

When I explained the concept of boundaries, perception, basic courtesy, etc, she acted like I told her she could never speak to her mother again. She became defensive and blurted out without me even directly prompting: "I'm not going to cut him off!" (the ex-BF). It became quite clear rather quickly that she was either 1) too emotionally attached to this guy and she would fuck him guy eventually, 2) too stupid to see how her interaction with the EX or other guys came off, or 3) was trying to play me and have it both ways.

The non-sense and drama went on and off for several weeks before I pulled the plug on the thing and bridges were burned.

The bottom line however is that I could have kept this woman in the rotation for a very long time and gotten some serious bang mileage out of her with no drama at all. All I had do to was delay the LTR talk (easy) and ignore guy friend/ex-BF stuff (easy when you're not in an LTR).

If you are this concerned about her behavior now, save yourself the trouble and just bang away with no strings attached. The only women you should be getting into LTR's with are chicks who give you no doubts that they are ride or die types.

[WestIndianArchie]

The mistake is trying to wife this chick, or any chick.

BE A PLAYER

Her guy friends, boyfriend, husband, kids, probation officer are her problems not yours.

WIA

[Onto]

Whenever a woman tells her husband she has a guy friend she is either kidding him or kidding herself.

[HankMoody]

If you're worried about her beta orbiters, your frame is way off. You're insecure.

When she is into you, she'll make every effort to make you feel she's loyal and worth keeping around.

The girl I'm currently seeing has some beta orbiters. I've met them once or twice, and don't care to know them. I give zero fucks. She's worried about ME fucking around with other girls.

[americanInEurope]

I've always wondered this too.

Maybe it's a generational thing or maybe it's just me, but I could just never be friends with a hot girl that I have sexualized in my mind. It just won't happen. I will always try and find some way to angle in sex with her. Unless I've already banged her out and did all the filthy nasty things I want to do to her, or she's hideous, I can't just be her gay BFF that talks it out on the phone sometimes.

That being said, just about every girl I mess with has lurking guy friends. I tell her I refuse to believe those guys don't sexualize her in any way or wouldn't like to fuck her in a perfect situation where she lets them. IDK man girls are just naive like that sometimes, or they pretend to be. They honestly think that a young straight male with no GF of his own won't be moved seeing her tight ass in yoga pants, or that in the very beginning of meeting her the interaction could have gone down another road. I'm like WTF do you think he just forgot about the fact that when you first met he was trying to get you back to his place?? You think it's just game over simply because? Yeah right. I had a girl who was so delusional that she was gonna book a ticket for a flight out to hang with her guy friend in Frankfurt, claiming that she just wanted to see Frankfurt and not going just to visit him. Bullshit, nobody just visits Frankfurt. There's nothing to see in Frankfurt but the airport. If he's like me then he's always looking for an angle. Or worst, he's a beta orbiter type of dude who will wait until she's passed out drunk to fucking molest her or some shit.

Meeting the guys and getting the vibe from them makes all the difference. When you look into their eyes, most guys who are trying to fuck your girl can't hide that shit. Only the true players know how to keep the mask on when you're staring at his face shaking his hand. It's like submission of dominance in their face or something. They conceed that you've got that pussy right now, and they just waited too long to get in the game. They either leave at that point or become really bitter and stick around to talk shit about you to her. Once I start seriously dating a girl and she makes it known to those guys that she has a BF, a lot of them mysteriously start dropping off or getting girlfriends. I draw the line when she starts flaking me to hang with them, or when we're together and she's writing them every hour or something. I start doing the same with my female "friends" (most of which i've already banged before), which pisses them off and sets them straight usually.

[456]

Another point of anecdata -- many early-20s girls I know really don't even know to act chaste -- they've had nobody in their ear suggesting that guys will be put off by a slutty girl for an LTR.

I've personally seen a few of these girls use the word "my friend" to refer to their fuck-buddies. "Oh my friend said I could stay in his apartment while he's on a work trip." Etc.

I agree about not being paranoid about beta orbiters, but just realize some girls literally mean "fuck buddy" when they say "my friend".

I've noticed this stuff the most in girls who are new to the big city, where being pretty is opening more doors than ever before in their hometown, so they are like "wow it's easy to get laid finally!" (actually have heard that some very attractive girls).

[Rawmeo]

Every girl has beta orbiters. She's just upfront about it. If she is frequently hanging with them, she's only fucksock material though.

[HankMoody]

(10-24-2015 09:54 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

Every girl has beta orbiters. She's just upfront about it. If she is frequently hanging with them, she's only fucksock material though.

Not fat ones.

[TheDuncan]

If this is some dude that she sees rarely but is a "close friend" I would wonder, if she has like 3 guys always around her at her job or hang out a lot with her there is a high chance they are a beta that wants to smash but never will or is a legit closeted homo lol

An alphas will try to hit and if he does not he moves on, lol @ girl friends and "hanging out".

[Yatagan]

(10-24-2015 08:15 AM)americanInEurope Wrote:  

I've always wondered this too.

Maybe it's a generational thing or maybe it's just me, but I could just never be friends with a hot girl that I have sexualized in my mind. It just won't happen. I will always try and find some way to angle in sex with her. Unless I've already banged her out and did all the filthy nasty things I want to do to her, or she's hideous, I can't just be her gay BFF that talks it out on the phone sometimes.

That being said, just about every girl I mess with has lurking guy friends. I tell her I refuse to believe those guys don't sexualize her in any way or wouldn't like to fuck her in a perfect situation where she lets them. IDK man girls are just naive like that sometimes, or they pretend to be. They honestly think that a young straight male with no GF of his own won't be moved seeing her tight ass in yoga pants, or that in the very beginning of meeting her the interaction could have gone down another road. I'm like WTF do you think he just forgot about the fact that when you first met he was trying to get you back to his place?? You think it's just game over simply because? Yeah right. I had a girl who was so delusional that she was gonna book a ticket for a flight out to hang with her guy friend in Frankfurt, claiming that she just wanted to see Frankfurt and not going just to visit him. Bullshit, nobody just visits Frankfurt. There's nothing to see in Frankfurt but the airport. If he's like me then he's always looking for an angle. Or worst, he's a beta orbiter type of dude who will wait until she's passed out drunk to fucking molest her or some shit.

Meeting the guys and getting the vibe from them makes all the difference. When you look into their eyes, most guys who are trying to fuck your girl can't hide that shit. Only the true players know how to keep the mask on when you're staring at his face shaking his hand. It's like submission of dominance in their face or something. They conceed that you've got that pussy right now, and they just waited too long to get in the game. They either leave at that point or become really bitter and stick around to talk shit about you to her. Once I start seriously dating a girl and she makes it known to those guys that she has a BF, a lot of them mysteriously start dropping off or getting girlfriends. I draw the line when she starts flaking me to hang with them, or when we're together and she's writing them every hour or something. I start doing the same with my female "friends" (most of which i've already banged before), which pisses them off and sets them straight usually.

It also stems from them wanting to believe that they're so AWESOME that guys would want to hang out with them regardless of attraction, but little do they know, that if it wasn't for sexual attraction, most women of reproductive age would get as much attention as elderly women from men.

[Onto]

(10-24-2015 10:58 AM)Seboist Wrote:  

It also stems from them wanting to believe that they're so AWESOME that guys would want to hang out with them regardless of attraction, but little do they know, that if it wasn't for sexual attraction, most women of reproductive age would get as much attention as elderly women from men.

This is 100% true. Every woman hopes a man will see her from the eyes up. Of course, we all know how silly that is, but it doesn't stop women from dreaming.

Also, every woman goes through a Goddess phase where they enjoy being adored by all men. Many mature past this phase, many never do.

Then there are the more demonic women who use guy friends to relativize men (their boyfriend along with the other guy friends). They relish in torturing men.

[brick tamland]

OP trust your instinct. I've been in more than one situation where I should have put a girl under close scrutiny before getting into the relationship. Predictably in the end I regretted putting the cart ahead of the horse. Don't go into the LTR if you have even a single misgiving. We learn the hard way to start playing by our own rules. Relationships don't last forever anyway and you'd hate feeling like a clown in a year's time. While currently these guys serve the purpose of giving her plenty of attention (and options), she can change the dynamic whenever she wants to, and blame it on alcohol or whatever else. You'll be walking on eggshells (Her frame).
Years ago in my days of naivety I had a girlfriend who wanted to take an overseas trip to visit and be the guest of a male 'friend' who had relocated for work. She eventually didn't go but the writing was on the wall. I learnt that girls always have their eyes on a few other guys even whilst dating you (and could end up sleeping with them when the right circumstances come along).
more recently I learnt from another doomed LTR that girls always have an ex boyfriend or two that they'll never get over. This girl told me that she keeps in touch with exes and doesn't delete their numbers. It's obvious what that implies. All they need is an excuse (eg alcohol) to rationalise it all.

[HankMoody]

For what it's worth...

Back in my beta days I was dating a girl I believed was The One. Every guy she talked to freaked me out. "Is she banging him? Will she leave him for me? Am I as cool as him? How can I show her that I'm better than he is? What if she realizes that I'm not as cool?" I once found out she was "seeing" (read: banging) one of my friends, and demanded an ultimatum. I thought I'd scored some huge victory when she "chose" me over him. Ha!

Three years later and Oneitis behind me (currently dating a solid 8.5), my opinion of other guys is "Haha, that guy wants to bang my chick. What a loser. I hope he does try and text her. Maybe he'll use an emocon, or better yet, try some Neil Strauss shit." She wouldn't even think about banging another guy, because she knows I'd be out of the picture in a heartbeat and on to the next one without a second thought.

Frame is key. You have to completely and utterly dominate women for an LTR to work. If you're worried about other guys, or her choosing you, frame is off. She should be worried about you choosing her.

Women are like dogs. Once you train them properly, they're actually quite loyal.

[Mentavious]

(10-24-2015 09:57 AM)HankMoody Wrote:  

(10-24-2015 09:54 AM)Rawmeo Wrote:  

Every girl has beta orbiters. She's just upfront about it. If she is frequently hanging with them, she's only fucksock material though.

Not fat ones.

Yes even fat ones