[Atlantic]

Haven't posted in a while but here is a good stack I have been using to keep DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) levels down. DHT is what causes over 90% of hair loss.

5α-reductase synthesizes DHT in the adrenal glands, hair follicles, testes and prostate. Men can lose hair as a consequence of changes in the metabolism of androgen in the body. Basically reducing DHT levels if they are high plays a major role in preventing any hair loss.


In actuality,[when] your body is struggling to convert free testosterone into the plethora of other testosterone byproducts, it begins favoring DHT conversion and producing more of it. This leads to elevated blood DHT, which collects in the scalp where it can cause hair loss. It’s not the total amount of testosterone, but the amount being converted to DHT, which is more important.

The mechanisms and possibilities behind all the testosterone conversions are highly complicated. In fact, understandings surrounding these conversions are constantly being revisited and called into question.

The big picture is that in both sexes, high DHT levels also often coincide with something much more important – the testosterone:estrogen ratio.



High levels of DHT can be caused by lots of things. Some examples... underactive thyroid, shitty diet, TRT treatment, getting older

5α-reductase inhibitors are commonly used for the treatment of two DHT-related conditions, male pattern baldness (MPB), and benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH).

My family has a history of men getting a reseeding hairline in their late 20s so I am try to keep that at bay. What I have been using...

- Herbal Milk Thistle
Extremely effective in warding off hair loss. Its protective against many types of chemical toxins including alcohol. Also great for your liver too.

- Beta Sitosterol with Fish Oil
Contains a mixture of phytersterols. Phytersterols (sterols) have anti-androgenic properties. This is the substance that is able to block DHT. Also reduced risk of a hear attack and is generally good for heart function.

- Pumpkin Seed Oil
Pumpkin seed oil breaks down DHT via the liver. Also stimulates hair growth if you have already lost some hair.

- Pygeum & Saw Palmetto
Saw Palmetto is probably the best known natural dht blocker. Its is a highly effective anti-androgen supplement. It lowers levels of DHT in the body by blocking 5 alpha-reductase and it also blocks receptor sites on cell membranes required for cells to absorb DHT.

Pygeum reduces the levels of DHT in the blood and reduces the number of sites where the dht can attach. This includes hair follicles where DHT would bind. When combined with Saw Palmetto it has a synergetic effect. I get both of these together in the same pill.


- Purica Pure L-Lysine
Helps everything else work better and has another nice side effect of reducing the chances of infections of the sexual kind.

I also take green tea extract, have cold showers, don't over style or stress my hair (not being rough with a towel after a shower for example) and change my hair style up every so often to give it a chance to recover.

My hair is solid and a lot of this is just preventive since this is the first year I have seen some very slight thinning in my hair.

[OGNorCal707]

Good info, I'll add a simple one, don't wear a hat too often, they can cause increased hair loss, especially a tight fitting baseball cap.

[Atlantic]

^ good point. I also left out some basic health stuff like gym, zinc, water, good sleep, low stress and fresh air. Sugar and bad bacteria are bad for you hair too so things like alcohol and fizzy pop aren't going to help. A good diet, gym and the right supplements will go a long way. I don't want to have to use any severe medication or treatments so I am being as preventive as possible up front.

Roosh has a great video on hair care too...

I have only ever shampooed once every few months from a young age, usually only when I get oil/paint/mud in my hair, but for a lot of guys this advice will be new.

[Travesty]

Nice post, 5 supplements on top of Minodoxil and all my workout supplements, Amino Collagen, ACV etc everyday is too much for me though.

If you could only choose 2 which would you use out of that stack (the ones with the best scientific track record of being effective)?

[Atlantic]

(10-15-2015 12:05 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Nice post, 5 supplements on top of Minodoxil and all my workout supplements, Amino Collagen, ACV etc everyday is too much for me though.

If you could only choose 2 which would you use out of that stack (the ones with the best scientific track record of being effective)?

Id use - Pumpkin Seed Oil and the Pygeum & Saw Palmetto combination.

They seem to come up the most of what people recommend for natural DHT blockers. I am not using all of the above everyday except for these two. I break up the rest over the week.

[Moreless]

(10-15-2015 07:59 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

(10-15-2015 12:05 PM)Travesty Wrote:  

Nice post, 5 supplements on top of Minodoxil and all my workout supplements, Amino Collagen, ACV etc everyday is too much for me though.

If you could only choose 2 which would you use out of that stack (the ones with the best scientific track record of being effective)?

Id use - Pumpkin Seed Oil and the Pygeum & Saw Palmetto combination.

They seem to come up the most of what people recommend for natural DHT blockers. I am not using all of the above everyday except for these two. I break up the rest over the week.

I bought some Pumpkin Seed Oil and the Pygeum & Saw Palmetto. Hope this bro science works
I'm also taking multi-vitamin, zinc, and b-12

[Travesty]

I think this will all seem like witchcraft when genetic and hormone modifications come out.

[Fast Eddie]

(10-13-2015 11:20 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

^ good point. I also left out some basic health stuff like gym, zinc, water, good sleep, low stress and fresh air. Sugar and bad bacteria are bad for you hair too so things like alcohol and fizzy pop aren't going to help. A good diet, gym and the right supplements will go a long way. I don't want to have to use any severe medication or treatments so I am being as preventive as possible up front.

Roosh has a great video on hair care too...

I have only ever shampooed once every few months from a young age, usually only when I get oil/paint/mud in my hair, but for a lot of guys this advice will be new.

It's funny you mention this. I've always figured one of the few disadvantages to the "no shampoo" approach is that it's not good for people whose follicles are naturally predisposed to be adversely affected by DHT.

DHT accumulates in the scalp along with the body's natural oils, where it promotes hair thinning. I'd imagine you'd want to wash out the DHT with shampoo as much as possible in order to reduce this effect. The whole idea of not using shampoo is that it allows body oils (and the DHT they contain) to stick around and provide a natural lustre to the hair. That's fine for folks like Roosh who seem to have great hair genetics and are not susceptible to DHT's effects, but I'd imagine it's not so great for those who aren't so lucky.

But this is just a mental experiment on my part. For all I know it's complete nonsense and shit doesn't work like that in real life. I'm open to being refuted.

[ordinaryleastsquared]

What about propecia? I just got a 'script. Granted there are a lot of horror stories on line, but the science and trials seem to suggest the risk is very low. Also my thinking is that many of the horror stories are more correlation then causative.

Thoughts? It seems to be the best overall treatment. Also, it seems Pylgeum & Saw Palmetto are pretty metabolically similar to the actions of propeica?

[aguasin]

FYI - There are studies that confirm Green Tea increases DHT unless consumed with Soy.
If you want to decrease it, they suggested Black Tea.

[Gas]

Yo Atlantic, what are your thoughts on ketoconazole shampoo? Good Looking Loser swears by it and a lot of studies out there support it's ability to reduce dht in the scalp.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14729013

[Gas]

Also I believe beta sitosterol is the active ingredient in saw palmetto, so I don't think it's necessary to take both, at least for hair loss purposes. Or is there more to it?

[Atlantic]

I went the 'natural' route and did a lot of research as it what people kept recommending. I haven't tried anything other then what i have recommend so I can't compare. I don't want something that requires a prescription at this stage. Is that shampoo available off the shelf without a script?

[Huey]

(10-18-2015 10:21 AM)Atlantic Wrote:  

I went the 'natural' route and did a lot of research as it what people kept recommending. I haven't tried anything other then what i have recommend so I can't compare. I don't want something that requires a prescription at this stage. Is that shampoo available off the shelf without a script?

Yes.

http://www.amazon.com/Nizoral-Anti-Dandr...B0000Y3CRY

[Marcus187]

Your body needs DHT, so I wouldn't mess with the DHT levels in your body.

Natural hair loss is genetic. The more sensitive your hair is to DHT, the faster it will fall out. All men are somewhat sensitive to DHT, so all men will experience some form of thinning hair, receding hairline or baldness. The level of sensitivity is genetic, so there's not much you can change about it.

If your hair is very sensitive to DHT, the process of getting bald will probably start during your teen years. If your hair is not very sensitive to DHT, the process of getting bald will probably start in your 70s.

[Travesty]

Pygeum, Saw Palmetto with Pumpkin Seed Oil all in one.

Shout out for Coconut Oil rubbing in your hair where it is thinning to strengthen. I am sure Amino Collagen and ACV also don't hurt either to intake.

[samsamsam]

I was reading something that one of those items opens your pores so your skin gets a bit messed up? Any experience like that Atlantic?

Also, I take some supplements and when I am fully on schedule with them it seems like a bit of an assembly line there are so many bottles. Any dangers from over supplementing? More just about the number of pills taken, I guess most just gets pissed out.

[Atlantic]

(10-18-2015 11:03 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I was reading something that one of those items opens your pores so your skin gets a bit messed up? Any experience like that Atlantic?

Also, I take some supplements and when I am fully on schedule with them it seems like a bit of an assembly line there are so many bottles. Any dangers from over supplementing? More just about the number of pills taken, I guess most just gets pissed out.

No skin issues.

As for over supplementing I would recommend reading this...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

DHT does have its uses so don't go over board on blocking it. I am only trying to reduce my levels a bit and have been using most of the things i have listed quite sparingly. I will leave it readers here to figure out what amounts of supplements are best for them.

[WalterBlack]

(10-18-2015 11:41 AM)Huey Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 10:21 AM)Atlantic Wrote:  

I went the 'natural' route and did a lot of research as it what people kept recommending. I haven't tried anything other then what i have recommend so I can't compare. I don't want something that requires a prescription at this stage. Is that shampoo available off the shelf without a script?

Yes.

http://www.amazon.com/Nizoral-Anti-Dandr...B0000Y3CRY

You can get Nizoral at CVS. If you have a CVS storecard, every couple of weeks they email a 20%, 25% or 30% off coupon, which you can use on the Nizoral.

[redbeard]

(10-19-2015 06:26 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

(10-18-2015 11:03 PM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I was reading something that one of those items opens your pores so your skin gets a bit messed up? Any experience like that Atlantic?

Also, I take some supplements and when I am fully on schedule with them it seems like a bit of an assembly line there are so many bottles. Any dangers from over supplementing? More just about the number of pills taken, I guess most just gets pissed out.

No skin issues.

As for over supplementing I would recommend reading this...

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/reform8.htm

DHT does have its uses so don't go over board on blocking it. I am only trying to reduce my levels a bit and have been using most of the things i have listed quite sparingly. I will leave it readers here to figure out what amounts of supplements are best for them.

I read this thread and thought "hmm cool I'll watch out for this when I'm older."

Then I was reading GLL's HRT Posts and he says he gets DHT tested, and that:

"You just don't want to knock your DHT into the single-digits - you will literally not be able to function. I've done that before and found that keeping my DHT 30-35ng/dL is ideal for me to keep hair loss to a minimum and still live a vibrant life."

I'm still young, un-enhanced, with a full head/face of hair. Have you gotten your DHT levels tested? Do you have any comments as to what is a healthy range?

I'm thinking long term, I could get my T and DHT tested and leave all of this alone as long as I see healthy levels for both.

[samsamsam]

For those of you who ordered some items off this thread, how is it working for you? Thanks.

[Moreless]

(11-12-2015 12:14 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

For those of you who ordered some items off this thread, how is it working for you? Thanks.

Cannot tell a difference.. but the psychological feeling of "I'm doing something at least" is nice.

Would recommend.

[Alpha Hunter Zero]

I noticed early on in the year that I was starting to vaguely see my scalp and that I was getting more strands of hair than usual when shampooing, even when done gently.
I bought the 3 in 1 bottle from the link Travesty posted. Ive been using it for about two weeks now. The suggested dose is 2 pills twice daily although I sometimes only take 1 dose of 2. Still to early to notice any difference though.

[LeBeau]

Any updates on this from the guys trying different methods?

[InfraOrbital]

Finasteride and Minoxidil 5% are key. Nizonal is overrated but doesn't hurt. RU58841 is probably even stronger than fin and is topical, not global, but it's a bit expensive and requires a lot of DYI.