[kmhour]

(12-13-2018 11:45 PM)Days of Broken Arrows Wrote:  

Definitely true. But you're thinking logically. Don't expect the same from women or female writers.

believe me, as a 4.5 year RVFer and lurker for years before that, I am accustomed to certain concepts of deceit.

but the "I'm a feminist who believes chivalry isn't dead" level of delusion seemingly pales in comparison to a 'Muslim modesty model'.

[MrLemon]

(12-13-2018 08:15 PM)Flux Wrote:  

Interesting post, this is definitely how the world works, swinging from one extreme to the other. What's interesting is you not liking it and worrying about it.

Who said I was worrying about it? I'm just pointing out that the new Puritanism is here, now, and nobody is paying attention.

It's #metoo and campus rape frenzy and permit pattyism. All signs of the pendulum picking up speed.

Add a big dollop of American police state insanity and another dollop of demographic birthrate collapse, and you have the perfect mixture for a Twitter-enabled religious frenzy.

I will either be a leader in this new technocult, or I'll be dead from bad health. Naturally I'm gunning for option 1.

[BortimusPrime]

Does anyone know what caused this to happen back in the 1800s? Women went from having their tits spilling out of corsets and caking themselves with makeup in revolutionary times to totally covered up at the turn of the 20th century.

[Garuda]

I didn't see hint of a large swing towards the puritanical in that article. Instead, it was just religious women, who know what the words "self respect" really mean, using the internet to boost brands and styles they wear to their places of worship.

In terms of puritanical, I think of the real Puritans, Christians who only wore black and white and didn't laugh or smile (the Pilgrims are one example) or Muslims like the Taliban who wear the burka and ban radio, television and images of people. These groups are also known for strict separation of men and women. That instagram Muslim lady would have been sentenced to 40 lashes and jail time for doing that.

The last puritanical act in America that got attention was when a single church had a huge bonfire of pokemon toys because those "promote witchcraft" and that was over a decade ago.

Will the market for modest women's clothing grow? Yes, because those are the only women having kids and their daughters will probably have the same attitude they have unless they are brainwashed by mass media to rebel or something.

Now the weird part of that article to me is:

Quote:

Khan relates a story in which her organization was recently working in Italy, where Muslims are the second-largest religious group. They soon started getting requests from Catholics who couldn’t find the right thing to wear to mass. “There are so many similarities in the consumer profile,” she says. “But it is their loyalty that should be most attractive to brands. The majority of these consumers have made modest choices based on the faith they’ve committed to, a decision which is usually for life.”

Is there some sort of taboo against wearing traditional Italian clothing in Italy or does nobody even make it anymore?

I'll gladly take this trend as it's easier on the eyes unlike the current ill-fitting yoga pants trend especially with socks and sandals.

[a beer is enough]

Despite the article not really hinting at the rise of a Puritan society in the future and more of OP's post implying it, I don't doubt we could very well be heading in that direction if we aren't already.

I recently read some work by Robert Greene on human nature and he mentioned that vehement hatred is often a secret envy of the hated person or group. Whether it is the radical left or the religious right (who I have had more than my share of experiences with), this thread really took me back to his work and why a lot of it resonates so much with me. How any group can try so desperately hard to stop a man from living out his prime by sleeping around, actually target such a man and be so triggered by it, deep down it is envy and desire towards the very thing that a guy has achieved.

Over the years, especially now, we have become an instant gratification society. Everyone instantly wants success, they see the rare entrepreneur make his millions before 30 and now everyone thinks they can be a millionaire before 30. Then they start to realize how much you have to work as entrepreneur in order to make money and quit, or they don't even start and expect money to come to them. Now its the government's fault, life is unfair, the "1%" take everything for themselves and the list goes on. Time to go after the system, riot and make things more fair.

We've become lazy and started to hate the idea of working for anything, we just kind of want results now without putting the work in. We want the millions without having to put in the work, if we don't get it then its the government. We want the awesome life we see in movies without having to develop ourselves and ask the tough questions, if we don't get it, then its society's fault.

Same can be applied for the sexual freedom. The vast majority of people, regardless of the stage of life, do not live the lifestyle that media portrays as being cool and sexy. Unless you are born into some really lucky circumstances (combination laid back upbringing, wealth, looks, etc.), it is tough road to break into that sort of a life. Even for men the internet might make it look easy, while it is doable but you have to put a lot of work in your end and be ready to go through a great deal of development, uncertainty and pain.

A lot of people realize this but want to preserve their ego so they take the much coveted moral high-ground from which they can attack others. Talk about "self-improvement" and attack others for "caring so much about pussy", feel all better about yourself as you do nothing and take no action to improve your life.

Now couple that in with the instant gratification and entitlement mindset that has consumed our culture in recent years. So much easier to remain stagnant and not take any action at all, its comfortable. No need to put in all those hours, just stay at home on a weekend and watch Netflix as you eat all those fatty foods and sugars. Don't put in any work on weekends, just remain lazy watching sports and sitcoms at home, sink into that couch as you daydream. Then see a well put together guy enjoying his sexual prime and start wondering why that isn't you, you should have that at this very moment, it can't possibly be your fault.

Instead just blame all of it on society, try to ruin the men who have worked hard to improve their sexual lives, make others play by rules that are "fair", talk about how terrible the Dan Bilzerians of this world are, and try to get others to have "better morals".

At some point, we let the failures of society loaded with envy get a big enough voice and are slowly paying the price of it. It started off by letting uglier women determine the beauty standard to make themselves more attractive and slowly started to go downhill from there.

[MrLemon]

(12-14-2018 01:01 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Despite the article not really hinting at the rise of a Puritan society in the future and more of OP's post implying it, I don't doubt we could very well be heading in that direction if we aren't already.

I recently read some work by Robert Greene on human nature and he mentioned that vehement hatred is often a secret envy of the hated person or group. Whether it is the radical left or the religious right (who I have had more than my share of experiences with), this thread really took me back to his work and why a lot of it resonates so much with me. How any group can try so desperately hard to stop a man from living out his prime by sleeping around, actually target such a man and be so triggered by it, deep down it is envy and desire towards the very thing that a guy has achieved.

Over the years, especially now, we have become an instant gratification society. Everyone instantly wants success, they see the rare entrepreneur make his millions before 30 and now everyone thinks they can be a millionaire before 30. Then they start to realize how much you have to work as entrepreneur in order to make money and quit, or they don't even start and expect money to come to them. Now its the government's fault, life is unfair, the "1%" take everything for themselves and the list goes on. Time to go after the system, riot and make things more fair.

We've become lazy and started to hate the idea of working for anything, we just kind of want results now without putting the work in. We want the millions without having to put in the work, if we don't get it then its the government. We want the awesome life we see in movies without having to develop ourselves and ask the tough questions, if we don't get it, then its society's fault.

Same can be applied for the sexual freedom. The vast majority of people, regardless of the stage of life, do not live the lifestyle that media portrays as being cool and sexy. Unless you are born into some really lucky circumstances (combination laid back upbringing, wealth, looks, etc.), it is tough road to break into that sort of a life. Even for men the internet might make it look easy, while it is doable but you have to put a lot of work in your end and be ready to go through a great deal of development, uncertainty and pain.

A lot of people realize this but want to preserve their ego so they take the much coveted moral high-ground from which they can attack others. Talk about "self-improvement" and attack others for "caring so much about pussy", feel all better about yourself as you do nothing and take no action to improve your life.

Now couple that in with the instant gratification and entitlement mindset that has consumed our culture in recent years. So much easier to remain stagnant and not take any action at all, its comfortable. No need to put in all those hours, just stay at home on a weekend and watch Netflix as you eat all those fatty foods and sugars. Don't put in any work on weekends, just remain lazy watching sports and sitcoms at home, sink into that couch as you daydream. Then see a well put together guy enjoying his sexual prime and start wondering why that isn't you, you should have that at this very moment, it can't possibly be your fault.

Instead just blame all of it on society, try to ruin the men who have worked hard to improve their sexual lives, make others play by rules that are "fair", talk about how terrible the Dan Bilzerians of this world are, and try to get others to have "better morals".

At some point, we let the failures of society loaded with envy get a big enough voice and are slowly paying the price of it. It started off by letting uglier women determine the beauty standard to make themselves more attractive and slowly started to go downhill from there.

brilliant!

[infowarrior1]

(12-14-2018 01:01 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Despite the article not really hinting at the rise of a Puritan society in the future and more of OP's post implying it, I don't doubt we could very well be heading in that direction if we aren't already.

I recently read some work by Robert Greene on human nature and he mentioned that vehement hatred is often a secret envy of the hated person or group. Whether it is the radical left or the religious right (who I have had more than my share of experiences with), this thread really took me back to his work and why a lot of it resonates so much with me. How any group can try so desperately hard to stop a man from living out his prime by sleeping around, actually target such a man and be so triggered by it, deep down it is envy and desire towards the very thing that a guy has achieved.

Over the years, especially now, we have become an instant gratification society. Everyone instantly wants success, they see the rare entrepreneur make his millions before 30 and now everyone thinks they can be a millionaire before 30. Then they start to realize how much you have to work as entrepreneur in order to make money and quit, or they don't even start and expect money to come to them. Now its the government's fault, life is unfair, the "1%" take everything for themselves and the list goes on. Time to go after the system, riot and make things more fair.

We've become lazy and started to hate the idea of working for anything, we just kind of want results now without putting the work in. We want the millions without having to put in the work, if we don't get it then its the government. We want the awesome life we see in movies without having to develop ourselves and ask the tough questions, if we don't get it, then its society's fault.

Same can be applied for the sexual freedom. The vast majority of people, regardless of the stage of life, do not live the lifestyle that media portrays as being cool and sexy. Unless you are born into some really lucky circumstances (combination laid back upbringing, wealth, looks, etc.), it is tough road to break into that sort of a life. Even for men the internet might make it look easy, while it is doable but you have to put a lot of work in your end and be ready to go through a great deal of development, uncertainty and pain.

A lot of people realize this but want to preserve their ego so they take the much coveted moral high-ground from which they can attack others. Talk about "self-improvement" and attack others for "caring so much about pussy", feel all better about yourself as you do nothing and take no action to improve your life.

Now couple that in with the instant gratification and entitlement mindset that has consumed our culture in recent years. So much easier to remain stagnant and not take any action at all, its comfortable. No need to put in all those hours, just stay at home on a weekend and watch Netflix as you eat all those fatty foods and sugars. Don't put in any work on weekends, just remain lazy watching sports and sitcoms at home, sink into that couch as you daydream. Then see a well put together guy enjoying his sexual prime and start wondering why that isn't you, you should have that at this very moment, it can't possibly be your fault.

Instead just blame all of it on society, try to ruin the men who have worked hard to improve their sexual lives, make others play by rules that are "fair", talk about how terrible the Dan Bilzerians of this world are, and try to get others to have "better morals".

At some point, we let the failures of society loaded with envy get a big enough voice and are slowly paying the price of it. It started off by letting uglier women determine the beauty standard to make themselves more attractive and slowly started to go downhill from there.

And I think giving up porn and abstaining from masturbation is a good way to train away from instant gratification:

That will also help as a pathway into other forms of delaying gratification like fasting as in the Catholic Lent for example.

[a beer is enough]

I didn't get to comment as much on the born-again Christian thing as someone who a little over a year ago moved out of NYC to a more conservative part of the country in the same region he went to college, reason was to save money and be closer to family. Over the years I have had my experiences with the youth churches and this kind of a crowd. You should see the dryness of these sorts of places, everyone married by the age of 25, getting into weekly contests over who is a morally superior person and the utter disdain towards things like having too many drinks or going another path in life.

While I do think the Bible has a lot of great things in it for anyone who gets to read it, being around these people will make you realize how much they actually have in common with the radical left when it comes to restricting sexual freedom of men and holding moral superiority over you. The hypocrisy isn't nearly as bad as it is with some of the other religions but it's still there and you have to be on guard for it.

For the longest time I wasn't as weary about these types because a lot of them voted the same as me in politics and I met a handful who were actually good people. After making friends with some in this crowd and mixing with it socially, I started to learn how a lot of youth churches boil down to high school popularity contests with more gossip. A younger more naive version of me got caught off guard but I have met many people from this sort of a crowd who are about as narcissistic and Machiavellian as they come, the whole religious thing is an act and a mask they wear all too proudly in public.

A lot of these people will aggressively attack you for things like drinking on a weekend, sex before marriage/hooking up and trying to rise materially/socially. When you really spend time around them, you start to realize how deep down inside they want those very things so desperately. The youth groups of these sorts are full of people who peaked in high school or college, never really got out of the old town and now use religion as a way to feel morally superior to those outsiders who are now hitting their prime and exploring life. As soon as they see others finding their stride in life, they will start their shaming at that very instant. Give them a chance or an opportunity for those vices and they will jump on them fast, look at how quickly the religious mask wears off in private.

You can just see that look of emptiness on their faces, a life never lived out because they caved into social pressures and didn't go after what they wanted, instead it was all sucked out of them by caving into social pressures from others who used morals to guilt trip them into a certain path. Married by 25 and now dressed like dads to every social event holding their moral superiority over guys out there that decided to spend their 20s developing and improving themselves. All the while living a lie and using religion to disguise it, convincing yourself you're better than the other people because you have better morals.

That's really the thing with moral superiority and people that use it as a weapon.

Whether its the radical left or the radical right, that is what it boils down to. People who never took the time to develop themselves, improve themselves, go their own path in life and then see others who went through that pain in youth. Now seeing that same person making a killing and living the life a lot of them wish they had but are too guilt about due to social pressures to come off as a saint. Its a perfect weapon to use to disguise your envy, save face in public and elevate your own status within your group. Once enough people go down this path and get angry enough at the fact that they never lived the life true to them, you start to get massive social change that hopefully doesn't turn big cities into some of these sorts of towns.

[questor70]

(12-13-2018 11:26 AM)MrLemon Wrote:  

On a regular basis our people go into extreme born-again-christian mode. And that's happening now, and OH BOY is it going to be a doozy.

What I see is an article openly celebrating a shift towards Islam, not Christianity. I'm not a fan of slut walks and yoga pants but the west slowly pulled into Islam as if it's medieval Spain all over again would not be a positive development. It's one of those nightmare scenarios manosphere predicts due to the weakening of masculinity, loose immigration, SJW-ism, etc...

[Aurini]

(12-14-2018 01:01 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Snip.

At some point, we let the failures of society loaded with envy get a big enough voice and are slowly paying the price of it. It started off by letting uglier women determine the beauty standard to make themselves more attractive and slowly started to go downhill from there.

This quote from a recent Brett Stevens article:

Quote:

The sickening part comes when I think about how the crowd will react. They scored. Touchdown! They will high-five one another and think they’ve saved the world. Ignore the public reaction. The grief-councilors have deployed to mop up all the crocodile tears. It reminds me of a chapter from Thus Spoke Zarathustra. A tightrope walker attempts to cross from one high tower to the next. A crowd looks on as he attempts the crossing. A jester makes fun of the tightrope walker causing him to fall to his death. The crowd is secretly relieved that the performer is dead since none of them could have crossed over.

I worry about the future of America. On the surface she seems to be doing a lot better than my own homeland, Canada; the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution, and there aren't the government-sponsored Hate Speech Tribunals that we have here. But I don't believe these offer as much protection as the average American would like to believe.

First of all, on the practical level, you might have the right to carry a gun and use it to defend yourself... but should you do so, there's a good chance you'll be mired in the legal system, while being tried in the court of public opinion. Just look at George Zimmerman.

But this is just a side effect of the deeper issue: the Puritanism that's at the core of the American Experiment. The issue with Puritans - and Protestants in general - is that they try and force the Supernatural into an Objective reality. This is why they make harsh, literalist pronouncements about theological matters, such as free will and God's ominscience (Calvinism); or about the value of human souls and the value of human individuals (all men are created equal). By placing the mystery of the supernatural into an objective, scientific box, they deny themselves the ability to admit ignorance, or to live holistically. If religion is objective, then there must be a strict, specific, and accurate path to salvation. If they go on to reject God, then there must be a best way to order society; something strict, dialectical, and materialistic.

Such a worldview can't admit that some things are bigger than man - that they'll always be bigger than man - and that there are some places we ought not to tread. They'll turn their theology into an absolute dictatorship; or their science into an absolute solution. Disagreement - when you are this certain about the fundamental nature of reality - is absolutely intolerable, there is no place for vagueries of opinion, or personal taste.

With Catholics, the Pope has absolute authority on theological matters; but on anything else he's just another man who has to argue his opinion. With Protestant cults, the founder's political theories are just as vital as his theological theories; because by eliminating the veil between objective truth and higher mysteries, he has made the personal political, and the political theological.

In Catholic countries - such as Canada by accident, and Italy by tradition - we're all sinners, none of us really know what we're doing, so we keep the yoke tied loosely. It's only in matters of survival that we demand obedience and conformity. In Protestant countries such as America and Britain, heresy from the orthodox is a nigh-criminal offence. The fact that the British investigation is formal, while the American investigation is informal (carried out by the media/twitter hordes) is irrelevant. As Heinlein said, "...you are just as dead if you buy the farm in an "incident" [or a "police action"] as you are if you buy it in a declared war."

When you claim to know everything (whether it be the Protestant carrying God in a lunch box, or the materialist claiming that all is knowable through the Scientific method) mysteries become intolerable - they become an assault on your faith, and ergo an assault on you (since this form of faith is based upon pride, a presumption of knowledge, rather than an admission of ignorance and smallness in the face of the immensity of God). So - when something goes wrong? Whether it's people choosing to buy dildos despite being church goers, or people refusing to follow your communist scheme for perfect reality - well, time to pull out the big guns. Eliminate the heretics. Eliminate those who are cursing the crops. Your theory is perfect, after all; by definition, since you command objective truth (God is in your lunch box), you can't possibly wrong. So if things aren't working out as you planned, it's because of immoral saboteurs.

I can definitely see a violent religious mania taking over America. I worry about you guys.

[heavy]

Is this what happened in Rome in the later years?

[heavy]

I would say that old school puritanism (in the U.S.) attempted to reign in female sexuality. New school puritanism attempts to reign in male sexuality.

I think I take heart that male sexuality can't be suppressed nearly as easily as female sexuality...but there are a billion factors on this topic. Interesting though.

Edit: Men show sexual value by being at the top of a hierarchy. You can show value by being at the top of the "men shouldn't do that" ladder, or by "fuck those rules I'm a bad boy" ladder. Or by simply being at the top of a very small group of people. Or by being the lone wolf.

Women have one sexual value hierarchy (looks, which includes youthfulness). Think of theirs as one big huge mountain with the large area above the frostline being what we consider 'attractive'. (there are more than one hierarchy for chicks (being more feminine, caring, etc), but compared to their looks/youth, these are near meaningless from a purely sexual value standpoint).

Men have a nearly infinite number of sexual value hierarchies. Think of ours as a bunch of smaller peaks with smaller areas above the frostline.

This is why I take heart that suppressing male sexuality doesn't work as well, at least socially (if done legally it can create a highly pressurized volcano). Sex makes the world go 'round, and if you try to socially suppress male sexuality, it's easy enough for males to break off, do their own thing, and get blowjobs

Thus:
The feminine imperative is currently toward Globalism (one giant mountain where the women can easily separate the pajama boys from DiCaprio.

The masculine imperative is currently toward Nationalism and states' rights in the U.S. (many peaks where we can all be separate but equal).

[CynicalContrarian]

Yeah similar to what AB pointed out in the past. Any "neo-feminist puratinism" of now or the future will be less about purity & more about projection.
Projection of their insecurities & self-consciousness.

"I'm too insecure to be pretty. Best chain the men down so that I don't have to feel uncomfortable..."

[infowarrior1]

(12-14-2018 01:17 PM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Snip

That's really the thing with moral superiority and people that use it as a weapon.

Whether its the radical left or the radical right, that is what it boils down to. People who never took the time to develop themselves, improve themselves, go their own path in life and then see others who went through that pain in youth. Now seeing that same person making a killing and living the life a lot of them wish they had but are too guilt about due to social pressures to come off as a saint. Its a perfect weapon to use to disguise your envy, save face in public and elevate your own status within your group. Once enough people go down this path and get angry enough at the fact that they never lived the life true to them, you start to get massive social change that hopefully doesn't turn big cities into some of these sorts of towns.

In other words their religion is not true and of the heart. But a weapon for their envy. A mask of superiority.

Unless there is a transformation from within. Or a spiritual rebirth they aren't really saved as they say they are.

[infowarrior1]

(12-14-2018 01:46 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

(12-14-2018 01:01 AM)a beer is enough Wrote:  

Snip.

At some point, we let the failures of society loaded with envy get a big enough voice and are slowly paying the price of it. It started off by letting uglier women determine the beauty standard to make themselves more attractive and slowly started to go downhill from there.

This quote from a recent Brett Stevens article:

Quote:

The sickening part comes when I think about how the crowd will react. They scored. Touchdown! They will high-five one another and think they’ve saved the world. Ignore the public reaction. The grief-councilors have deployed to mop up all the crocodile tears. It reminds me of a chapter from Thus Spoke Zarathustra. A tightrope walker attempts to cross from one high tower to the next. A crowd looks on as he attempts the crossing. A jester makes fun of the tightrope walker causing him to fall to his death. The crowd is secretly relieved that the performer is dead since none of them could have crossed over.

I worry about the future of America. On the surface she seems to be doing a lot better than my own homeland, Canada; the right to bear arms is enshrined in the Constitution, and there aren't the government-sponsored Hate Speech Tribunals that we have here. But I don't believe these offer as much protection as the average American would like to believe.

First of all, on the practical level, you might have the right to carry a gun and use it to defend yourself... but should you do so, there's a good chance you'll be mired in the legal system, while being tried in the court of public opinion. Just look at George Zimmerman.

But this is just a side effect of the deeper issue: the Puritanism that's at the core of the American Experiment. The issue with Puritans - and Protestants in general - is that they try and force the Supernatural into an Objective reality. This is why they make harsh, literalist pronouncements about theological matters, such as free will and God's ominscience (Calvinism); or about the value of human souls and the value of human individuals (all men are created equal). By placing the mystery of the supernatural into an objective, scientific box, they deny themselves the ability to admit ignorance, or to live holistically. If religion is objective, then there must be a strict, specific, and accurate path to salvation. If they go on to reject God, then there must be a best way to order society; something strict, dialectical, and materialistic.

Such a worldview can't admit that some things are bigger than man - that they'll always be bigger than man - and that there are some places we ought not to tread. They'll turn their theology into an absolute dictatorship; or their science into an absolute solution. Disagreement - when you are this certain about the fundamental nature of reality - is absolutely intolerable, there is no place for vagueries of opinion, or personal taste.

With Catholics, the Pope has absolute authority on theological matters; but on anything else he's just another man who has to argue his opinion. With Protestant cults, the founder's political theories are just as vital as his theological theories; because by eliminating the veil between objective truth and higher mysteries, he has made the personal political, and the political theological.

In Catholic countries - such as Canada by accident, and Italy by tradition - we're all sinners, none of us really know what we're doing, so we keep the yoke tied loosely. It's only in matters of survival that we demand obedience and conformity. In Protestant countries such as America and Britain, heresy from the orthodox is a nigh-criminal offence. The fact that the British investigation is formal, while the American investigation is informal (carried out by the media/twitter hordes) is irrelevant. As Heinlein said, "...you are just as dead if you buy the farm in an "incident" [or a "police action"] as you are if you buy it in a declared war."

When you claim to know everything (whether it be the Protestant carrying God in a lunch box, or the materialist claiming that all is knowable through the Scientific method) mysteries become intolerable - they become an assault on your faith, and ergo an assault on you (since this form of faith is based upon pride, a presumption of knowledge, rather than an admission of ignorance and smallness in the face of the immensity of God). So - when something goes wrong? Whether it's people choosing to buy dildos despite being church goers, or people refusing to follow your communist scheme for perfect reality - well, time to pull out the big guns. Eliminate the heretics. Eliminate those who are cursing the crops. Your theory is perfect, after all; by definition, since you command objective truth (God is in your lunch box), you can't possibly wrong. So if things aren't working out as you planned, it's because of immoral saboteurs.

I can definitely see a violent religious mania taking over America. I worry about you guys.

That may be true now. But I don't think the Catholic church is free of the history of heretics being burnt or killed.

I see your point. And that of heresies of the protestant variety is what you claim.

But sorry I don't see it across the board there isn't enough proof other than the American variety of Pathology as described here.

Quote:

With Protestant cults, the founder's political theories are just as vital as his theological theories

Could you explain?

[questor70]

Let's not try to generalize too much. America is a very divided nation. Other countries that are more homogenous are more powerful in the way they act as one whereas the US gets mired in constant dumpster fires. Trying to ban Baby It's Cold Outside and the looming shutdown in Washington are just the same phenomenon at different scales. That's the downside of hyper-individualism. There's been an almost complete disregard for making any sort of compromise for the greater good.

Very often online I see people burnt out on the way politics infuses all online discourse, even if it has nothing to do with politics. And yet we're still sort of hopelessly locked into the dumpster-fire cycle. Community as we once knew it is kind of over. In its place are just a bunch of balkanized ideological silos of which this is one.