Quote: (08-30-2015 01:11 AM)storm Wrote:
What do you suggest, VincentVinturi?
I honestly don't know what a better alternative would be.
I haven't studied this topic enough to speak with any authority but there are probably other countries who are doing innovative things in the criminal justice field, who we can learn from.
Quote: (08-30-2015 01:38 AM)Phoenix Wrote:
Delete all the victimless crimes.
Definitely.
Especially drug offenses.
Actually, legalize ALL drugs, but that's another conversation.
The problem is the drug war is HUGE business for the government, for many governments,
And the single biggest contingent of incarcerated persons are non-violent drug offenders.
That's no coincidence.
Quote: (08-30-2015 01:39 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:
Quote: (08-30-2015 01:09 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:
To me, the fact that we incarcerate people for decades in these horrible prison systems, send prisoners to die, and prosecute minors as adults, are proofs of our inhumanity to one another.
I sympathize with this emotion, but how is feeling that way going to help you or anyone?
If you seek out "proof" of our inhumanity, I have no doubt that you'll find it, but this phrasing suggests it is going deeper than just observing an injustice in the world. There is also plenty of proof in the world of the gentler, more compassionate side of our nature. I personally witness it on a daily basis - in fact, I'd wager you can find evidence of it even in supermax prisons.
Humans, and therefore the world, are far from infallible, but we won't find our solutions by demonizing each other or ourselves. This paradigm (the idea that humans are largely malicious by nature) is ironically a significant source of the problem you're highlighting to begin with.
Yes that's a good point BB.
And I don't think humans are necessarily malicious by nature, nor benevolent.
We're just self-interested for the most part.
So the question is: whose interests are supported when we lock up people for insane lengths of time?
The prison system, the police, the courts, the politicians.
And taxpayers fund the whole racket.
And they all clamor that it's for society's good, all the while ignoring the reality that there is no society.
There are only many individuals.
So to try kids as adults (just as an example) when it's well-known that our brains aren't fully formed for good decision making until we're in our late 20s is a masterpiece of hypocrisy.
Like I said above, I don't know what the better solution would be, but this much I know: the current system is broken.
Quote: (08-30-2015 07:23 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:
The American prison/justice system is just completely incomprehensible to me.
You and me both, brother.
Quote: (08-30-2015 07:46 AM)Samseau Wrote:
What the hell? Fast forward to 7:30. This kid was firing handguns out in public and thrown in prison and you think this inhuman?
So first off, he's a kid, you said as much yourself.
Kids do very stupid things.
To lock him up for 13 years in a cage like an animal because he was young and didn't know any better? How does that help anybody?
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Are you kidding me?
Yes, I am.
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I like how you didn't even include an argument in your main post, you just throw in a bunch of emotional platitudes about inhumanity while glossing over the fucked up shithead who was thrown in jail.
I didn't include an argument because I was expressing a sentiment and encouraging replies, not writing a thesis.
This a forum.
I admittedly
don't know what the solution is and there are many smart people in this community, even people with backgrounds in this field, who can help us to clarify our thoughts and feelings on an issue that ANY man feels strongly about (his freedom).
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I don't give a fuck if he's 16, firing handguns at people in public is something that goes beyond age.
Then we're fundamentally in disagreement because I do give a fuck.
Have you never done anything stupid?
Do you not believe in second chances, learning from your mistakes, rehabilitation?
Is it not enough that one person's life is negatively impacted, we have to ruin another life because "I don't give a fuck" about any extenuating circumstances like the fact that he's about a decade shy of being able to make solid decisions?
Lock him up because gun. Throw away the key because society.
Should American taxpayers have to shoulder the burden of maintaining the largest prison population in the world, some 3x larger than China, who doesn't exactly get a gold star in the human rights department, because we're too lazy to apply some mental energies into actually solving the problem and rehabilitating criminals?
The whole notion of trying a juvenile as an adult is very strange indeed. Hypocritical.
If he's a juvenile, then he must be tried as a juvenile.
Otherwise, he's an adult and ought to be tried as an adult.
Again, the question is whom does this approach benefit?
Society?
I doubt that ruining a kid's life, and forcing the public to pay for his decades-long imprisonment serves the common good, because he is part of that 'common' entity.
This kind of approach benefits overzealous district attorneys who build their careers by seeking the harshest sentences possible.
It benefits the court system which couldn't exist without it (at least not in its currently overblown state).
It benefits police and politicians, who can point to incarceration rates and say "See? you need us. See what a good job we're doing putting all these 16 year old monsters behind bars? More funding please!"