[OGNorCal707]

Okay sorry for the intentionally cheesy and beta thread title, and move this to the newbie forum if need be. Today was a minor victory in game, sometimes we need minor victories to lead to the greater victories that we strive for.

I feel like a complete newbie again, it's funny how when you hit it off with a girl that you genuinely like, even a game hardened warrior who's seen it all can feel like a post-beta newbie finding game and getting a number from a hottie for the first time.

So I live in a small town where I tend to see a lot of familiar faces over time, essentially I have a good idea who some of the hottest girls in town are, and every now and then I see a girl that becomes the apple of my eye, that I half-jokingly refer to as my "dream girl."

I have crossed paths with my dream girl on a few occasions, but due to anxiety, nervousness, or what I perceived to be bad logistics I always held back and never went in to spit proper game.

Today after I had brunch I was cruising to check out the farmers market, when I passed by a clothing store, there was a dope v-neck with a drawing of a lion's face on the front, I went in to check it out, and then realized that my "dream girl" was working behind the counter and there was no one else in the store.

I asked her about the shirt, but they didn't have my size, I knew it was my opportunity to get some conversation going, and told her I liked her necklace and she mentioned how she had gotten it in Mexico, which she'd just gotten back from. I segued into how I'd travel for two months in Mexico, and we connected on that, then talked about our love of travel and where we both wanted to go to next.

Here's where the beta nice guy move came in, at some point in the conversation she mentioned how she was stuck at work and really wanted to get a coffee or espresso. I made a joke about how she need to make friends with baristas at the coffee shop down the street, so they will deliver her coffee. She said that would be amazing, in which I told her that I was headed to the farmers market and there was a coffee stand there, and that I would bring her a coffee on the way back.

She was like "no, I feel bad, you don't have to do that", and I realized I was treading too much on beta territory, so I was like "it's all good", motioned that my car was parked just past the shop, and told her "it's not like I'm making a special trip just for you, it's on my way back". She offered to pay and I told her I'd get the money when I came back.

I was getting really good vibes and it seemed like the coffee move scored me some points, she seemed genuinely appreciative and was feeling the "nice guy vibe". I made sure to chill at the farmers market and talk to a few homies long enough so that it would instill a bit of doubt whether I was coming back and didn't want to seem too eager.

When I got her coffee and came back she seemed really stoked to see me, fortunately the store was still empty and we picked up right where we left off and got into a really good conversation where we talked about ourselves, got past most superficial shit, and I felt like there was a pretty real connection, more so than talking to a woman in a loud bar where everyone is drunk.

After another 20-30 minutes of good conversation, I excused myself and told her I had a Thai kickboxing class to go to, and told her that she "seemed really cool" and asked if I could have her number. She did kind of hesitate for a split second before agreeing to give it to me, but seemed pretty enthusiastic overall.

I know I'm totally pedestalizing this chick which is often a great pitfall most guys fall into, and one that I have suffered from frequently in the past. Still it's really hard not to get excited when you meet one who checks all the boxes for what you like and what does it for you. This girl is at least an eight minimum, I'd say a nine... 5 ft 7 in., brunette, 23 years old, super tight body, gorgeous model caliber face, very nice ass and titties.

As much as I'm stoked on her though, I know in the back of my head that if she's "my dream girl" that means she's probably about 100+ other guys dream girl too. In this town sixes have the pick of the litter, so this chick is really at the top of the totem pole when it comes to her sexual value and the abundance of guys she can choose from.

I'm sort of hoping for the best with a half expectation that she'll either have a dude already, or that she'll flake one way or another by ignoring my text, flaking on meeting up, etc., etc.

Still after struggling being on a dry spell and in a funk, and getting probably one of the hottest girls in town's phone number after a really long good conversation is a minor win. I feel like even if it doesn't come through I got a nice jump start to my mojo and my vibe.

The takeaway from today as far as game goes is don't be a bitch, take advantage and approach when the opportunity presents itself. Day game has advantages in that if you do get a conversation going, neither person is drunk, and you can have more of a coherent meaningful conversation. Nice guy game can work well when you maintain the right frame, especially during day game, whereas nighttime a cocky funny vibe may be more necessary for the venue.

Finally I've been hitting the gym hard lately, maybe I'm getting a bump from my physique, I was rocking a very form fitting tank top today, that probably didn't hurt. Last night some bros hit me up for dinner right after I got out the gym, went to the brewery straight from the gym, did't shower or nothing, but was looking swole in a tight tank top, I got eye fucked and smiled at hard by another gorgeous girl sitting at a table by the exit, to the point where my two homies commented on it. I guess if you got muscles may as well show them off.

[Saweeep]

So what's your next move?

[OGNorCal707]

(08-15-2015 06:58 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  

So what's your next move?

I'm just going to treat it like any other prospect, calling may be a stronger move since we already had some good conversation, but my text game is much stronger. I'll probably wait till Monday evening and hit her up with a text, after a few text exchanges, ask her if she's down to hang out, suggest we get a drink on Weds./Thurs night, and run standard first date game if she's down.

If she's not down, charge it to the game and keep it moving, at least she's aware of me and I'll be around, if nothing else I get a little confidence boost and will get out and spit more game. Got a good vibe from another chick I've seen around at the farmers market today, I just need to start capitalizing more on opportunities that present themselves.

[Captain Gh]

It seems that you had a good convo going on with her and that you kinda know how to excite a chick on a conversational level. You've been around a long time so I'm sure you know what you're doing homie! Being nice to a chick is not Beta at all because you're doing it while maintaining your value and holding your masculine frame.

I'm starting to get to a point where I feel I can do whatever I want in the presence of a chick. If it's something that she likes then fine, and if it's not, then I'll let her know why I did it with a strong frame and charm do diffuse the tension, and it always seems to do the trick!

Weather I'm wrong or right in the discussion, as long as I maintain my strong frame, I keep my value in her eyes, therefore preserving her respect for me. I feel that you did the same in the situation. You'll at least get this chick on a date unless she has a BF or someone that she's seeing with the Game you ran

[Alpone]

Great job, OP. After reading so much Rollo/Roissy/Roosh a lot of guys tend to over game and come off as too aloof. I'm guilty of it as well. Your game was well calibrated - you showed interest, made good rapport, and went for the number close. You managed to deliver coffee to an unknown girl without coming off as beta-orbity. That's huge DHV.

[fucksong]

If your inner game is solid, you can pull off shit that "game enthusiasts" would consider wrong. An example would be calling a girl beautiful or as you said "pedestalizing". If you're doing that from a bitch position, yes, it is unhealthy and unattractive. But if you're doing it from a place of confidence and positivity, or rather YOU'RE ALSO ON THE PEDESTAL WITH HER, it def can work.

Plus, as you say, you've been working out and you genuinely connected, I'm sure your alpha-ness was shining through regardless of your words or actions.

Like many, I started out learning game from the book as well as MM but after years of hooking up and multiple gfs, it really is your inner game that trumps all else. You can smell like shit, dress fucked up but if you're solid and on point inside, you'll convey that through your energy, eye contact, body language and be way more successful than someone who says all the right lines, follows the right rules but inside is still a little beta bitch.

The biggest takeway I've learned from game is learning to think and view things how chicks do as they are a million times more intuitive than guys in general so they can smell who is truly an alpha vs one who is pretending to be one.

Good luck with your chica mayn

[GlobalMan]

Well done man. You met and conversed naturally with a attractive girl you've had you eye on and it seems she might have some interest, that's a win any day of the week. It's a confidence booster no matter where it goes.

[ksbms]

I'll play the devil's advocate here.

So, you hit on some chick working a stall and selling some dope tees? A girl that is a real "nine" or "eight" wouldn't have to do it but every situation is different, so who knows what's her story.

Now, you say a girl gave you her number? Heck, at the moment you don't even know if it's her real number! All guys on the forum do know (otherwise, you don't really belong here) that getting a number is worth just as much as a cashier's smile at a check-out desk on a rainy day. A bit but not much.

I get you, though - rush of adrenline, dopamine and other neurotransmitters created a cocktail making you buzz and acting hyped up about the possibilities. As humans, we need, it gives us a purpose and a believe that, at least to some extent, the world is a just place.

First, fire her a text and then plan accordingly. As the saying goes, plan for the worst, hope for the best.

Good luck.

[Guitarman]

I don't think getting a girl a coffee is a Beta or " nice guy" as it was not going out of your way to get her the coffee and she was going to give you the money.

I would have got her the coffee and after getting her number said "we will meet up and you can buy me one back".

[jariel]

(08-15-2015 10:44 PM)fucksong Wrote:  

If your inner game is solid, you can pull off shit that "game enthusiasts" would consider wrong. An example would be calling a girl beautiful or as you said "pedestalizing".

If the girl finds you attractive, then she won't penalize you for complimenting her looks.

A compliment is only not welcomed when it comes from a man who a woman doesn't want to receive a compliment from.

Look at the new definition of harassment. It includes unwelcomed speech.

So in other words, if you go up to a woman and call her "beautiful", but she doesn't want to hear that from you, it's harassment, but if someone else who she finds attractive goes up to her and says that, and she's interested, well then it's game on.

[Cobra]

There was nothing "beta" or anything about your game. You did well. Good job!

One poster above mentioned that guys try to be "over alpha" around hot girls. I am guilty of it.

I really believe approaches should be about "game" without some kind of alpha/beta bullshit. Now when it comes to mining that lead into a date or more, that's when your true confidence, inner game and masculinity come into play a lot more.

I remember forcing myself to be real alpha in a few approaches and basically talked myself out of a number by either looking try hard or too aloof.

[jariel]

(08-16-2015 07:49 AM)ksbms Wrote:  

I'll play the devil's advocate here.

So, you hit on some chick working a stall and selling some dope tees? A girl that is a real "nine" or "eight" wouldn't have to do it but every situation is different, so who knows what's her story.

Agreed, a real hottie wouldn't be doing such menial work, but that depends, maybe it's a family business or something of that nature. Hot girls that are in their early-mid 20s can easily get jobs at high-end fashion retailers. Go into a Gucci, Michael Kors, Tory Burch, etc. and the chicks are minimum 7s.

I'm not speaking directly on OG's situation, but hitting on chicks while they're working is tricky because they're paid to be nice. Guys will have conversations with chicks while they're working, the chick is trying to make sales or whatever, so her friendliness is a part of doing business. The problem is some guys will mistake that friendliness for attraction.

Now, she's not paid to give out her phone number, so in this case, maybe she's actually interested, or maybe she thinks he's going to hit her up to buy some tees -- chicks can be gullible like that.

All these questions, and yet there's really only one conclusion, you don't really know what the deal is until you make a move. I won't say phone numbers don't mean anything, but they're at best honorable mention ribbons.

Nice guys tend to be treated kindly by women, so you might have got her number just because you were being nice, but that doesn't mean you're going to get to hit it, and most nice guys don't get to hit it.

OG is going to have to take the interaction further, let her know he's not a customer and he doesn't give a fuck about the t-shirts, he's interested in her, and wants to know if she's down to see where things can go from here.

[ksbms]

(08-16-2015 08:13 AM)jariel Wrote:  

(08-15-2015 10:44 PM)fucksong Wrote:  

If your inner game is solid, you can pull off shit that "game enthusiasts" would consider wrong. An example would be calling a girl beautiful or as you said "pedestalizing".

If the girl finds you attractive, then she won't penalize you for complimenting her looks.

A compliment is only not welcomed when it comes from a man who a woman doesn't want to receive a compliment from.

Look at the new definition of harassment. It includes unwelcomed speech.

So in other words, if you go up to a woman and call her "beautiful", but she doesn't want to hear that from you, it's harassment, but if someone else who she finds attractive goes up to her and says that, and she's interested, well then it's game on.

Yes, it is relativized and, as a consequence, a hypocritical form of a doublespeak. You say to a girl "you look like a sexy little minx" and she likes you, then you're golden. If she doesn't, she files for harassment.

[Barron]

Quote:

told her I liked her necklace and she mentioned how she had gotten it in Mexico, which she'd just gotten back from.

What part of Mexico was she visiting?
If she went to Cabo/Cancun then your dream girl has ridden the carousel hard and been reamed by countless inches south of the border.
I hate to rain on your parade but even if she didn't hit the party cities there's still a good chance she misbehaves while traveling.

Proceed with caution and assume the worst until she proves otherwise.
By assuming the worst you will take her off the pedestal and treat her as you should any other female.

[rudebwoy]

Well done and I hope it all works out for the best or at least you get her on a date.

I think you played it very well up until a certain point. The coffee thing you had to do, it might have been a mild shit test. You did a great job in making it seem you were not going out of your way to get her the drink.

My only concern is when you returned with the drink. I think you over stayed your welcome by talking to her for another 20 minutes, the better move would have been to drop of the drink, get the number and bounce as you are late for another "appointment".

You could have said something like, I will like to hear more about your travels over dinner/drink.

Again this is after the fact and I wasn't there. I know when these opportunities come up we get very excited and want to stay in the moment.

[ksbms]

Guys, most girls aren't idiots, right? They know that he's asking her if she wants some dick, right? I think we overplay how much it is possible to change a girl's interest in a man by utilizing game. If there's no biological attraction, there will be no action. If she likes what he looks like, odds are good, if she doesn't and/or gets good dicking, odds are not so good. Whether he brought her coffee or not, of a lesser importance as long as his demeanour oozed confidence.

[Brian Shima]

Every girl that I have thought about more than usual because I really wanted her, has either flaked or went radio silent.

[jariel]

(08-16-2015 02:01 PM)ksbms Wrote:  

Guys, most girls aren't idiots, right? They know that he's asking her if she wants some dick, right?

Unfortunately, your assertion isn't true, and it very much has to do with the age level of a woman.

Young girls, like the one in this scenario, are still accustomed to having platonic relationships with boys. Most of that is simply a by-product of the fact that most young guys aren't going for the pussy from jump street. They're still of the mindset of becoming her friend first, then hoping that at some point there will be some magical moment when they can make their move.

Contrast that with a woman in her late 30s/early 40s, how many men are going to be in her life who are just friends? The only men in her life who aren't likely trying to fuck her are relatives and co-workers, and in those instances we're talking about familial and business relationships.

As we age, the sheer number and likelihood of platonic relationships that we have decreases sharply.

Until that level is reached, a woman can be pretty naive about a man's intentions, that's why in most cases, what I consider to be, non-convenience game cases, it's better to swing for the fences, simply because a second interaction isn't guaranteed.

Let me also add, for me personally, collecting phone numbers, I'm off that. Now I'm not saying every interaction should end with you trying to fuck a girl, because every scenario doesn't lead you to that destination. However, I think if you're going to get a phone number, there has to be a context that goes along with getting the phone number.

Running game after collecting a phone number consists of basically striking up a conversation, getting the number, and then randomly hitting the chick up at another time. I'm off that like throwback jerseys.

If you're going to get a number, then there should be a context along with that, like "Ok, so I'll text you after you get off so we can meet up for a drink", "Ok, so I'm going to check out this other club, I have some friends waiting for me, I'll call you in a little while, see what you're up to, if your friends call it a night, I'll scoop you up, and we can keep the party going."

You have to dead this shit where you end the interaction with getting a number, and then the girl goes back to her life, has interactions with other guys, completely forgets about your existence, and then has to be re-engaged later on -- most women are moment creatures, once the moment is over, you're over, unless she's really interested in continuing the moment later.

Get the number and immediately attach the fact that you have the number to some sort of plan you're trying to hatch or a plan that you have anyway and you're planning on including her in it.

[DonnyGately]

If you acted with tight Inner Game, then you did the right thing. If you acted in a completely different way becaue of 'dream girl' the incongruence will shine through and she probably won't go out with you.

[ordinaryleastsquared]

(08-16-2015 12:37 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

Quote:

told her I liked her necklace and she mentioned how she had gotten it in Mexico, which she'd just gotten back from.

What part of Mexico was she visiting?
If she went to Cabo/Cancun then your dream girl has ridden the carousel hard and been reamed by countless inches south of the border.
I hate to rain on your parade but even if she didn't hit the party cities there's still a good chance she misbehaves while traveling.

Proceed with caution and assume the worst until she proves otherwise.
By assuming the worst you will take her off the pedestal and treat her as you should any other female.

Could be true, and if it helps you game the girl to believe it, then do so I guess.

But I disagree with the meme that most girls are carousel riders. Sure some are, but just because a girl went to Cancun doesn't absolutely imply absolutely she is a mega slut. .. Necessary but not sufficient condition so to speak.

[Phoenix]

I think all the aloof stuff is just a symptom of cultural decay, rather than a natural aspect of courtship.

When I think 'be more attractive' I don't think 'be more arrogant and aloof'. I saw a guy from California who was doing all that stuff trying to get a girl and he just looked try-hard, unpleasant and pathetic. He also failed miserably. All it is is an attempt to fake higher status, and only the stupidest of girls aren't going to spot when the status isn't actually there.

As always, the rank of girl you can get depends primarily on your own rank. It's the value you bring to the table compared to the competition. Everything else is just marketing and sales.

[Distant Light]

Where is the beta part? You were heading over there anyway AND as you said its a small town, to me that's like one extended HOUSE PARTY especially me being in a big city. (Most people are so disconnected to other humans)

For instance back when I 1st went to warehouse parties I LOVED IT because it had sort of a family vibe. I remember at one point...

Jersey shore looking dude with his girlfriend on the stage dancing. (These places tend to have more of the hippie "conscious" vegan types)

Were all having a blast (at one point his gf is hoola hopping her top drops but no one cares its good times)

At one point I say "Is it just me or are you thirsty". Without hesitation guy opts to go get one because he too needs. He left his girl and just quickly went.

There is a difference between doing shit just to try to get laid and just being a "good" person.

[OregonToSoCal]

Contrary to what others are saying I don't think you picking her up a coffee made or broke this interaction. You were going there anyway and offering to pick her up something was the courteous thing to do. I wouldn't have mattered if it were a woman or a man. On the other hand this is of far more concern to me:

(08-15-2015 06:53 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

After another 20-30 minutes of good conversation, I excused myself and told her I had a Thai kickboxing class to go to, and told her that she "seemed really cool" and asked if I could have her number. She did kind of hesitate for a split second before agreeing to give it to me, but seemed pretty enthusiastic overall.

In my experience, if a woman hesitates, even for a second, your chances of actually getting her out on a date drop like a rock. I'll be interested to read what happened when you call/text her.

[Saweeep]

It'll certainly be interesting to hear how this plays out.

Personally, I would have tried to set up a date there and then, in person. Very soon too.

[OGNorCal707]

Well gentleman I texted this beauty at 7:58 PM last night (Hey what's up "dream girl" its OGNorCal707, how's it going?) and didn't hear back from her. If a chick doesn't hit me back the same night I usually just completely write it off and charge it to the game, there have been a very few rare occasions when a girl texted me the next day with some lame excuse. My phone just dinged a minute ago (3:40 pm), and I was expecting it to be my bro who is supposed to get back to me, it turned out to be dream girl and she wrote: "It's going well! Looking for another job. How about you?"

Part of me is like , but then another part of me is like


Game on?