[el mechanico]

(07-20-2015 06:30 PM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

^ Liar.

You're full of it let's just move on.

[Off The Reservation]

(07-19-2015 10:20 AM)Cr33pin Wrote:  

It posses a vagina

True.

[JacksonRev]

Easiest is do their words match their behavior. Simple case, are they answering no while shaking their head yes? Are they in a timid posture when telling a harrowing story? Etc.

Check Telling Lies by Paul Ekman and What Every Body is Saying by Joe Navarro.


Free Telling Lies pdf if you Google it. Having issues with the link on my phone.

[rpg]

A big sign of a liar is when they want something. Find what people want and watch what comes out. When I want pussy I lie. That is the pussy's native tongue.

[Satoshi]

(07-19-2015 01:32 PM)Biz Wrote:  

I think intuition plays a roll here. I can tell if someone is lying or exaggerating pretty easily just by following my intuition, I feel like it's pretty accurate.

That's you unconsciously reading their body language. I've read the book 'The Definitive Book of Body Language' and it helped me a lot to read people, not just unconsciously but also consciously. It helps me in basically every relationship I have. I'm actually a bit surprised that body language isn't discussed more on this forum, it do have a huge impact in life especially when meeting girls.

[Off The Reservation]

(07-23-2015 07:38 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 01:32 PM)Biz Wrote:  

I think intuition plays a roll here. I can tell if someone is lying or exaggerating pretty easily just by following my intuition, I feel like it's pretty accurate.

That's you unconsciously reading their body language. I've read the book 'The Definitive Book of Body Language' and it helped me a lot to read people, not just unconsciously but also consciously. It helps me in basically every relationship I have. I'm actually a bit surprised that body language isn't discussed more on this forum, it do have a huge impact in life especially when meeting girls.

What did the book say ?

[Off The Reservation]

(07-23-2015 07:38 PM)Satoshi Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 01:32 PM)Biz Wrote:  

I think intuition plays a roll here. I can tell if someone is lying or exaggerating pretty easily just by following my intuition, I feel like it's pretty accurate.

That's you unconsciously reading their body language. I've read the book 'The Definitive Book of Body Language' and it helped me a lot to read people, not just unconsciously but also consciously. It helps me in basically every relationship I have. I'm actually a bit surprised that body language isn't discussed more on this forum, it do have a huge impact in life especially when meeting girls.

I will get this.

[PapayaTapper]

Everything I say or write is a lie

[Satoshi]

(08-01-2015 09:44 PM)offthereservation Wrote:  

I will get this.

Yeah you should. I remember a few years ago I found it as a PDF. Now I've bought it in paperback and are rereading it. There is also an other book called 'What Every Body is Saying' by Joe Navarro which I yet didn't read, but I just found it on the pirate bay and will add it to my kindle to read when I get the time. Joe Navarro is a former FBI agent.

[SlickyBoy]

(07-20-2015 11:09 AM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

If you think somebody is lying, ask them a conspicuous question about a detail their story and the truth will out quickly.

Ex:
-Faggot: I make xxxxxx a year!
-You: Nice. How much of that is bonus?/How much do you pay in taxes?

He will have to stumble and think because he's expecting you to praise and get impressed or shit. That is easy to see.

Cops do this all the time - it's a very effective technique. They'll pull someone over, get into a discussion, pop a question, get an answer, then come back a little later and ask the same question to see if they get the same answer. They'll also look for things like touching the neck, back of the neck, face, etc. as both signs of deception/tension or possibly imminent violence (an agitated person putting their hand to their forehead, pointing fingers, etc. are strong warning signs someone is going to lose their cool).


Also, a good rule of thumb to remember is: Liars lie specifically.

If your woman asks where you were last night and you say "Out with the guys" and the next question is "When did you get back?" your honest answer would be "I dunno, late." not "10:35" like some liar who planned it. Throw in a qualifying question or two and things start to unravel quickly.

I've met people who told me they did a specific job while in the military (a job I've had), and after listening a while, it became very obvious to me that they were utterly full of shit. Sometimes all you have to do is let a liar keep talking and they'll paint themselves into their own corner with their own ego.

[SlickyBoy]

(07-20-2015 03:03 PM)Dalaran1991 Wrote:  

Thats why the good cops I know all call bullshit on lie detector tests, those stuff are easy to fool. A razor-edge intuition is much more valuable here.

The strength in those isn't in the lie detector machine itself, it's in the skill of the examiner.

[poutsara]

Everybody lies and everybody dies.

If you ask a woman a question where a lie would be to her benefit, expect the answer to be a partial-truth at best or a lie at worst. This is reality. Allow the truth to be demonstrated, or not, by actions over the long term, that's the only reliable test.

I know that I'm not smart enough to know when someone lies based on facial or emotional cues. The only way I know is if I have the facts, which I rarely do, so I play the odds, and try not to place myself in a situation where I must know if someone is being truthful.

[Off The Reservation]

(08-02-2015 03:53 PM)poutsara Wrote:  

Everybody lies and everybody dies.

If you ask a woman a question where a lie would be to her benefit, expect the answer to be a partial-truth at best or a lie at worst. This is reality. Allow the truth to be demonstrated, or not, by actions over the long term, that's the only reliable test.

I know that I'm not smart enough to know when someone lies based on facial or emotional cues. The only way I know is if I have the facts, which I rarely do, so I play the odds, and try not to place myself in a situation where I must know if someone is being truthful.

Qui bono

[Off The Reservation]

(08-01-2015 10:47 PM)PapayaTapper Wrote:  

Everything I say or write is a lie

You are lying.

[slppryslp]

(07-19-2015 10:10 AM)Off The Reservation Wrote:  

What signs have you personally observed that tip you off that someone is lying? Whether in business, with a girl, family, etc...

I will start with one that I have personally picked up on. Even numbers.

Most of the time someone uses very even numbers to establish a value I have found that they are lying. Examples:

I am in sales and I a making 100K.

I have never met someone who makes 100K which is 8333 a month. Everyone who has said this to me was making more like 40-60. However if someone said to me "last year I made 135" it is far less likely they were lying.

My company is worth 20 million
Same as above vs someone who says "based on last years earnings before interest and taxes using a 3 times EBIT multiplier we are currently valued at 12.4 million."

I have only been with 5 guys.
There is a post about this here.
Nice even number = lie here.

What signs or tells have you noticed tip you off that a person is lying?

I agree with this wholeheartedly, I call it beware the round number. The rounder the number the more likely it is to be a lie. If you are big into figuring out liars, you can get a course from that guy over in berkely who figured out facial expressions. People faces betray them, its just too hard to control all the time, and there is a direct link between the two. If you watch the old series, lie to me, it will give you an idea of the technology.

[SlickyBoy]

Just saw a National Geographic episode of To Catch a Smuggler. A female CBP agent said "It's the women who lie the most - it kills me to say that, but it's true." "...they lie, and will start to argue 'well, you didn't tell me about that, etc.' just kills me to admit it (laughing)"

Can't escape red pill realities, lady.

[hydrogonian]

I've realized that almost everyone lies, occasionally, to keep an even-keel in some social aspects of their life.

I don't care about that. Do what you need to do, bro or ho. It's within the range of normalcy, and I don't make it my mission to out everyone who needs to lie to me occasionally for this purpose - as long as it isn't too regular.

What I do care about, and what you should care about, is carrying on relationships with impulsive / chronic liars.

These are people who will lie about inconsequential things, who will lie to you regularly for the smallest of perceived personal gain or comfort, and who can't help themselves. It's pretty much as if they need to lie.

A lot of these people will also be either sociopaths or psychopaths. Thus, they'll be charming enough that you might not catch their lying patterns until you know them better. However, the pattern will invariably emerge. When you notice it, run for the sake of your sanity. Remember that I warned you. When you learn to recognize their particular tells or pattern, the liar will still be under the impression that their patterns aren't recognizable by others. It's part of the disease. Thus, the behavior will continue even if you subtly or not so subtly alert them to the fact that you are onto their bullshit in the vain hope that they will stop. They never will. This mostly applies to men.

Unless you are dating a church going woman who is serious about it, assume that she regularly lies to you. And many church going women will as well. Accept it and operate accordingly unless you want to be celibate. Don't call her out on it unless you are leaving her. She won't stop either. It's a part of the game.

[Off The Reservation]

(05-01-2016 10:43 AM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

I've realized that almost everyone lies, occasionally, to keep an even-keel in some social aspects of their life.

I don't care about that. Do what you need to do, bro or ho. It's within the range of normalcy, and I don't make it my mission to out everyone who needs to lie to me occasionally for this purpose - as long as it isn't too regular.

What I do care about, and what you should care about, is carrying on relationships with impulsive / chronic liars.

These are people who will lie about inconsequential things, who will lie to you regularly for the smallest of perceived personal gain or comfort, and who can't help themselves. It's pretty much as if they need to lie.

A lot of these people will also be either sociopaths or psychopaths. Thus, they'll be charming enough that you might not catch their lying patterns until you know them better. However, the pattern will invariably emerge. When you notice it, run for the sake of your sanity. Remember that I warned you. When you learn to recognize their particular tells or pattern, the liar will still be under the impression that their patterns aren't recognizable by others. It's part of the disease. Thus, the behavior will continue even if you subtly or not so subtly alert them to the fact that you are onto their bullshit in the vain hope that they will stop. They never will. This mostly applies to men.

Unless you are dating a church going woman who is serious about it, assume that she regularly lies to you. And many church going women will as well. Accept it and operate accordingly unless you want to be celibate. Don't call her out on it unless you are leaving her. She won't stop either. It's a part of the game.

timeless explanation

[ChefAllDay]

I am a fantastic liar, super serious and normally coming out of left field. I can pretty much make anyone believe most things because I have a serious looks. The problem is I can't hold it, I make up random shit no one should believed, but I am so serious when I say it, people believe me. Then after a couple minutes I crack and I am done.

[Stonk]

In reality, its very difficult to tell when a person is lying — especially a professional. But some obvious tells are face touching, defensive positions like arm crossing, strong gaze to convince you, increased pitch/tonality.

Also look out for extremities.

Is the persons volume too low or two high?
Is their gaze too strong or too weak?
Do they avoid face touching completely or touch their face excessively?

Like CH noted, Cinstrast is King.

[debeguiled]

(06-27-2018 03:56 AM)Stonk Wrote:  

In reality, its very difficult to tell when a person is lying — especially a professional. But some obvious tells are face touching, defensive positions like arm crossing, strong gaze to convince you, increased pitch/tonality.

Also look out for extremities.

Is the persons volume too low or two high?
Is their gaze too strong or too weak?
Do they avoid face touching completely or touch their face excessively?

Like CH noted, Cinstrast is King.

This is a very deep topic, and there are no easy answers.

I dug into it a few years ago, and came away thinking that lie detection is less a skill and more along the lines of a trade in that it takes many years of study and practice to develop the talent.

More than I was willing to put in, anyway.

A good place to start is Paul Ekman's research on "Truth Wizards."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizards_Project

Funnily enough, the people who are best at detecting lies are not the ones you might think:

Quote:

O'Sullivan and Ekman[2] identified only 50 people as Truth Wizards after testing 20,000 (~0.25%)[3] from all walks of life, including the Secret Service, FBI, sheriffs, police, attorneys, arbitrators, psychologists, students, and many others. Surprisingly,[citation needed] while psychiatrists and law enforcement personnel showed no more aptitude than college freshmen, Secret Service agents were the most skilled.

For a while I followed a blog of a woman who was tested by Ekman and company and determined to be a truth wizard:

I'm a Truth Wizard

Quote:

Dr. O’Sullivan has tested over 15,000 people for her study, and has found 46 wizards to date. With that, I’m wizard 46.

So, what does being a wizard actually mean? It means I see most kinds of lies accurately at least 80% of the time (I’m not flawless as I have said before.), whereas the normal person is only as good as a coin-toss in spotting deception.

If you are interested in studying this stuff, check out the early posts of her blog. I have to admit that of late, she has become an anti-Trump SJW nightmare, and fairly deceptive herself, not in her truth ferreting abilities, but in the video clips she chooses to study, and the conclusions she draws from them.

Still, her early blog posts were filled with the nuts and bolts of how she perceives the world differently from the rest of us. It was good reading because she was still pretty humble, and didn't really know what made her different from average people, so the blog was a slow discovery and explanation of exactly what her gifts were.

Later she got cocky and dismissive and this work became paid work, and her attitude is basically insufferable.

Sticking to the early stuff still has value.

I am less acquainted with the work of this guy, but if you want to hear this stuff from a masculine perspective, here is another truth wizard who has a site.

http://www.iainterviewing.com/home.html

This is the dude:

http://www.iainterviewing.com/home.html#instructor1

Quote:

J.J. Newberry was a Senior Special Agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for 27 years, retiring with 30 years federal service. During that time he spent 2 years deep cover with the Organize Crime Strike Force and a number of other shorter undercover assignments. He made a reputation as a bomb and arson investigator, he worked a number of international firearms trafficking cases with success as well. His last 4 years with ATF he served as the San Francisco Field Divisions Intelligence Officer. He was the ATF Case Agent on a number of high profile cases such as the Black Panthers, SLA, The Mormon Bombings, and the Chinese International Firearms Smuggling Investigation.

J.J. had a dual career as a Military Intelligence Officer with the US Army Reserve having served 22 years and retiring as a Major.

J.J. is part of an elite group of individuals known as the Wizards. Through the research of Dr. Maureen O’Sullivan and Dr. Paul Ekman, Wizards have been identified as individuals with an exceptional skill at detecting deception. Rigorous scientific testing of over thirty thousand people discovered only 50 such Wizards of which only 10 have a consistent hit rate over 90% accuracy rating. J.J. is number 1.

This is a fascinating topic, and anyone who wants to spend some time tracking down information will have a lot of fun reading ahead of them.

There are many many body language experts on the internet, many of them self identified experts, and there is a lot of time to waste with bullshit, so these folks, the truth wizards, are the result of a scientific investigation, and are a good place to start.