[Brazilianguy]

Hello, H1N1!

I am very into magic and have studied it for a decade or so, and started practicing it a couple of years ago, with good results for a beginner.
If you want to learn and have your own experiences, my advice is that you ignore Aleister Crowley, the Golden Dawn, Freemasonry, and in fact all of the so called secret societies and modern occult organizations.

Instead, do your own work.

My practice is grounded on western grimoire magic, which means I work from the medieval books of magic (Key of Solomon, Heptameron, Lemegeton are a few examples).
So far, I´ve practiced from Trithemius of Spanheim´s "The Art of Calling Spirits into Crystals" with good results.

Here´s my suggestion of studies:

1- Learn traditional electional astrology (Christopher Warnock has a good course on it in: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com)
Electional astrology is essential because you will need to find the right times for the evocation of spirits.
Normally, the spirits are linked to planets, which means you will have to find a time when the planet in question is in a favourable position in the sky so that the spirit can be called to visible manifestation.

2- Study the old texts (classical western grimoires).
My suggestion is that you start your practice with the Ars Almadel of the Lemegeton.
The equipment is very simple and relatively low cost, and it doesn´t require a thorough knowledge of astrology.
Another good choice would the Trithemius´s "Art of Drawing Spirits into Crystals", which is not so simple, but a step above the Ars Almadel.

3- Loving and obeying God and being in general a good person is pre-requisite for working magic.
Standard procedure before the operations is to eat a vegetarian diet for at least a week and do a 1-3 days water fast, besides praying and meditating.
This will ensure your perception is enhanced and you are pure enough to summon spirits.
Another essential item for many is to consume an entheogen (such as magic mushrooms, ayahuasca, peyote, etc) for your operations. They greatly enhance the astral senses and will enable you to see and hear (or comunicate in other manners) with the spirits you summon.

4- Don´t expect to get it right the first few times.
Classical western magic takes study and practice, like any other skill.
Don´t be discouraged by your failures. Instead, try to find the mistakes you might have made and try again!

5- Another interesting area is practical laboratory alchemy, which is a sister science of astrology and magic.

Feel free to PM me if you want to exchange ideas.

[Truth Teller]

(07-15-2015 09:01 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

However there were many Christian groups around that same 1st and 2nd century time frame that went contrary to what was codified by Nicea. Off the top of my head there were the Valentinians, who were especially active around the 2nd century. Just because the books were codified doesn't mean that they made arbitrary decisions to keep specific books out of it.

Early church leaders called all of these groups heretics and very quickly killed them off. Same thing happened to Martin Luther 1500 years later.

The First Council of Nicaea took place in the 3rd century with Constantine commissioning fifty bibles for the church in Constantinople. The actual biblical canon wasn't set in place until around late 3rd century (apologies my information was off in my last post). It wasn't until the 5th century that the bible we know of as today was set in place.

A few things: first, what was officially called the Bible was codified later, at the Synod of Laodicea. That being said, from the earliest (albeit incomplete) manuscripts we have, we see the early Church using Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Not Thomas, Peter, and Judas, but the four canonical gospels.

The Biblical canon, however, was more or set by what the orthodox churches were using and what existed prior to roughly AD 100. Generally, there also had to be some attribution of authorship to a (somewhat) major figure in the early Church. As a result, there are debates over whether or not Second Peter is canonical and whether or not the Epistle to the Hebrews was canonical. Both are almost certainly not written by Peter or Paul respectively (I can get in authorship in another thread if people want).

Yes, there were alternative Christian groups. Nobody really denies that. However, they very possibly were offshoots of the early, orthodox church, and they almost certainly used (directly or indirectly) the canonical scriptures. For example, the Gospel of Peter's writer is almost certainly aware of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and it may know of John as well.

[The Beast1]

(07-15-2015 12:36 PM)Brazilianguy Wrote:  

Hello, H1N1!

I am very into magic and have studied it for a decade or so, and started practicing it a couple of years ago, with good results for a beginner.
If you want to learn and have your own experiences, my advice is that you ignore Aleister Crowley, the Golden Dawn, Freemasonry, and in fact all of the so called secret societies and modern occult organizations.

Instead, do your own work.

My practice is grounded on western grimoire magic, which means I work from the medieval books of magic (Key of Solomon, Heptameron, Lemegeton are a few examples).
So far, I´ve practiced from Trithemius of Spanheim´s "The Art of Calling Spirits into Crystals" with good results.

Here´s my suggestion of studies:

1- Learn traditional electional astrology (Christopher Warnock has a good course on it in: http://www.renaissanceastrology.com)
Electional astrology is essential because you will need to find the right times for the evocation of spirits.
Normally, the spirits are linked to planets, which means you will have to find a time when the planet in question is in a favourable position in the sky so that the spirit can be called to visible manifestation.

2- Study the old texts (classical western grimoires).
My suggestion is that you start your practice with the Ars Almadel of the Lemegeton.
The equipment is very simple and relatively low cost, and it doesn´t require a thorough knowledge of astrology.
Another good choice would the Trithemius´s "Art of Drawing Spirits into Crystals", which is not so simple, but a step above the Ars Almadel.

3- Loving and obeying God and being in general a good person is pre-requisite for working magic.
Standard procedure before the operations is to eat a vegetarian diet for at least a week and do a 1-3 days water fast, besides praying and meditating.
This will ensure your perception is enhanced and you are pure enough to summon spirits.
Another essential item for many is to consume an entheogen (such as magic mushrooms, ayahuasca, peyote, etc) for your operations. They greatly enhance the astral senses and will enable you to see and hear (or comunicate in other manners) with the spirits you summon.

4- Don´t expect to get it right the first few times.
Classical western magic takes study and practice, like any other skill.
Don´t be discouraged by your failures. Instead, try to find the mistakes you might have made and try again!

5- Another interesting area is practical laboratory alchemy, which is a sister science of astrology and magic.

Feel free to PM me if you want to exchange ideas.

This is a gold post. Thank you for posting this.

Could you post some of your experiences if you're comfortable? I um had a very strange experience when meditating on mushrooms once. The comment you posted about timing being important makes a lot of sense

[H1N1]

Thank you everybody for your responses. There's been some great discussion, and thought provoking stuff.

Brazilian guy, I will look into the sources you mentioned. I am not a religious man, so the prerequisite for loving God may rule me out of exploring your advice fully. I may well take you up on your kind offer of further explanation once I have given myself a better understanding.

[Brazilianguy]

The Beast1 and H1N1,

Classical western magic (grimoire magic of the medieval times) is an adaptation of Graeco-Egyptian magic.
Clearly put, magic is work and communication with spirits (disembodied intelligences).
Originally from Egypt, it was adapted to Greek culture (probably by Neoplatonic philosophers) and later to European Christian culture in the medieval times.

Thus, classical western magic will employ Christian prayers, as well as Hebrew Divine Names (which are very effective for summoning spirits, by the way).
The spirits are the same. It is only the names by which they are called that change.
For instance, while a Greek magician would summon Apollo for works dealing with leadership, authority and obtaining the ability to distinguish truth from falsehood, a medieval Christian magician would evoke Archangel Mikael.

The Greek magus would call upon The One as the Source of Creation, while a Christian magician would pray to "God, Eternal Spirit, Light of Lights, Almighty Father". It´s all the same!

The Ars Almadel of the Lemegeton is a system designed for summoning solar spirits belonging to the seasons.
It involves the creation of 4 almadels (small coloured altars), one for each season, summoning the spirits that are the "builders" of spring, summer, autumn and winter, meaning they are the metaphysical origins of the seasons.
A small crystal ball is placed on top of the altar, and typically the vision will appear inside the crystal ball very clearly.

The "Art of Calling Spirits into Crystals" of Trithemius is designed for summoning the intelligences/spirits of each of the classical planets: Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury and Luna.
Again, the vision appears inside or superimposed to the crystal ball which is placed in the center of the Altar.
In Christian medieval culture the spirits to be summoned are referred to as the Archangels: Cassiel of Saturn, Sachiel of Jupiter, Samael of Mars, Mikael of Sol, Anael of Venus, Raphael of Mercury and Gabriel of Luna.
In Greece, they are called Kronos, Zeus, Ares, Apollo, Aphrodite, Hermes (also the Egyptian Thoth) and Selene.

[Brazilianguy]

As for books, I would recommend the Sourceworks of Ceremonial Magic, a series by Stephen Skinner and David Rankine.
Also, everything you can find by Joseph Peterson.

For understanding the philosophy that is the basis of magic, I think all works by Plato are very good.

You can check out this blog if you want to see the tools of the Ars Almadel, Art of Trithemius and Ars Goetia of the Lemegeton:
bryanashen.blogspot.com

[RawGod]

If magic really existed, many people would be getting their needs met - girls, money, etc - through using it. Instead, I see a bunch of weird, generally low-income and low-achieving people into it. And if the magic supporter were to respond that you have to be dedicated, talented, find the right teachings to really be successful, I would just respond that the same is true for achieving your goals without magic, so why not just do that?

As a rationalist, I feel stupid even making that argument, but the point remains - if it were effective, market forces would bring its practitioners to the forefront, because they have hacked the universe. And that is observably not the case. I would use the same argument against those who argue that certain drugs can improve your consciousness and your life.

[ColSpanker]

Thought I'd give this thread a bump since it seems to be a path which interests me. I was very into Crowley and the Western Hermetic tradition years ago. I dropped it as I became tired of the people who ran around claiming "Magus" status, but were on public assistance. "Screaming neurotics" on friend of mine called them. Now I've started to look at it again, but have no interest in ceremonial magic. I watched someone do a banishing ritual in public recently and had to turn away to keep from laughing.
The problem I can see is that many of these organizations have been infiltrated by the worst kind of SJW's imaginable. The successors to Crowley are filled with precious snowflakes who think the power of Outer Forces should acknowledge their delusions. "Too much affirmation" as I once heard someone say.
Even the main Freemason bodies in this country are in an uproar. Some of the Southern lodges have kicked out teh geys. The northern ones are refusing to acknowledge the ones who kicked them out. I will say that I've noticed a lot of young dudes moving into Freemasonry. My generation wasn't interested in Freemasonry as we thought it was a bunch of fat businessmen types who had a fetish for tiny cars and fez's.
Some of the obscure "Old Catholic" and "Gnostic" churches attract a lot of tey gey for reasons I can't understand.

[Aurini]

(04-12-2016 06:23 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

Thought I'd give this thread a bump since it seems to be a path which interests me. I was very into Crowley and the Western Hermetic tradition years ago. I dropped it as I became tired of the people who ran around claiming "Magus" status, but were on public assistance. "Screaming neurotics" on friend of mine called them. Now I've started to look at it again, but have no interest in ceremonial magic. I watched someone do a banishing ritual in public recently and had to turn away to keep from laughing.
The problem I can see is that many of these organizations have been infiltrated by the worst kind of SJW's imaginable. The successors to Crowley are filled with precious snowflakes who think the power of Outer Forces should acknowledge their delusions. "Too much affirmation" as I once heard someone say.
Even the main Freemason bodies in this country are in an uproar. Some of the Southern lodges have kicked out teh geys. The northern ones are refusing to acknowledge the ones who kicked them out. I will say that I've noticed a lot of young dudes moving into Freemasonry. My generation wasn't interested in Freemasonry as we thought it was a bunch of fat businessmen types who had a fetish for tiny cars and fez's.
Some of the obscure "Old Catholic" and "Gnostic" churches attract a lot of tey gey for reasons I can't understand.

What does a rock concert look like?

On stage, you have some woman getting violently fucked by the demon she summoned. Meanwhile, the bisexual guitar player has five groupies follow him backstage for a coke fuelled orgy. But the real event is in the audience.

Every single creature that's hypnotically swaying to the beat is dressed uniquely, with unique tattoos, and unique piercings, and a unique t-shirt they bought from Walmart that declares how little they care about your judgmental opinion. They masturbate furiously to the orgy, imagining that they're a part of it, but too afraid to reach out to the others in the audience to share even base pleasure with them. They each feel privileged to truly 'get' the meaning of the song - as if the lyrics were anything other than the same consumerist drivel they scoff at their parents for enjoying!

Rawdog commented that people who practice Magick™ are losers sitting on welfare; but that's just the audience that makes the events on stage possible.

Spell and Spiel have the same root word: the Germanic "game/performance". Those who are practising it successfully sure as hell don't let you know that they're practising it - though ironically, they could show you their hand of cards and most people still wouldn't believe it - and those that did wouldn't realize that they had three more up their sleeve.

BrazillianGuy isn't completely off, but I worry that he's insufficiently disciplined; he's an indie guitar player that doesn't realize that the industry is fuelled by molestation and hate. Nothing wrong with guitar playing, mind you - but it's a hobby, meant to be played for fun. It's the industry that you have to look out for.

If you're interested in any of this, I would suggest the writings of M. Scott Peck and Malachi Martin on demonology, and Michael Trust (aka Anonymous Conservative) on Narcissism. You need to understand what evil truly is before you delve into any of this stuff; I've been fortunate enough to have been protected by God's Armour throughout my life, Lord only knows why, and while my study of all this stuff has scarred me, it hasn't corrupted me.

Narcissism, envy, manipulation, occult knowledge, insider trading, hedonism, nihilism, magic, Satanism - at the end of the day these are all the same thing - the exact same thing. They all stem from the same source. Sometimes it's offered as a ritual; other times, it's an usurious loan of money; still others, it's nothing more than backstabbing your partner to take all of the profit.

Satan gives you what you want; God gives you what you need. I'm not preaching ignorance - Good Lord knows that - but extreme moral caution. What do you want and why? If you want to hear the rhythm of the celestial spheres, and speak with the spirits who live under the earth - very well and good; gardening might also be a good hobby. But if you presume too much, well - we all know how Genies and their wishes turn out, don't we?

[debeguiled]

(04-12-2016 10:11 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

Narcissism, envy, manipulation, occult knowledge, insider trading, hedonism, nihilism, magic, Satanism - at the end of the day these are all the same thing - the exact same thing. They all stem from the same source. Sometimes it's offered as a ritual; other times, it's an usurious loan of money; still others, it's nothing more than backstabbing your partner to take all of the profit.

Good stuff. I think it can be further reduced:

All of these people are trying to receive love without giving any back.

[ScrapperTL]

I don't have a lot to add to this thread except that I once (years ago - this was PRE-RED PILL for me) went to an "open" Freemason meeting to see what it was like.

They fed me a very hearty meal for free and refused any payment from me for it.

All of their wives and daughters came in and were actually attractive women.
They talked about the charity work they do as Shriners.
They encouraged me to come back for another "open" meeting and to wear a Suit next time.
Most of these guys were fit, masculine, classy and humble.
They gave me a tour of their lodge and it was extremely clean, spotless & pristine.

Thinking back now (this was years ago) their whole group seemed very Red-Pill.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-12-2016 10:11 PM)Aurini Wrote:  

I've been fortunate enough to have been protected by God's Armour throughout my life, Lord only knows why, and while my study of all this stuff has scarred me, it hasn't corrupted me.

Good post, Aurini. Your last part reminded me of the words of wisdom that NASA Test Pilot has often shared:

"One does not have to touch the darkness in order to understand the darkness."
thread-53234...pid1227815

The search for truth sometimes leads to frightening conclusions. The above saying has given me comfort during times where I've feared to tread further. The above post which I've linked is also relevant to this discussion.

Scrapper, the masons indeed appear to be well functioning members of society and whatever you do is up to you. Most blue lodge and low degree members probably have their hearts in the right place and are trying to do charitable works.

What concerns me about freemasonry is their secrecy regarding their true motives, and their deception regarding what they represent until you've been initiated into the higher degrees. You are asked to give oaths before you even know what you are getting into, in return for the elusive promise of greater knowledge and power. In my experience, it is unwise to make oaths to those whose motives are hidden.

From what I've read, once you've been initiated into the higher degrees, it becomes very difficult to exit without major ramifications. To use an analogy, you are entering further into a dark labyrinth, whose destination is unknown, and where no exit is permissible. I do enjoy the unknown, but not at the cost of my freedom.

[Neo]

Freemasonry is odd. On the outside it just seems like a regular fraternity/social club. The requirements for membership are to believe in a supreme being, be free born, and be a man of good moral standing. I've visited two lodges on off nights, and the men seem normal enough.

There definitely is a long historical relationship with the esoteric and ancient religions. When I visited the lodge I noticed there were several ciphers/symbols all over the place, even what looked like writing from ancient Egypt.

From what I've read the rituals have to do with the builder of the story of King Solomon's temple, Hiram Abiff and are meant to teach moral lessons.

I'm not sure I buy the entire conspiracy thing. There are the three basic degrees, and the other higher degrees are in the York and Scottish Rites. It seems foolish that a man would dedicate years to living by moral standards, then reach the 32nd or 33rd degree and just throw it away for devil worship or something else.

There's also the fact that there really is no higher governing body. In the US each state has a grand lodge which is the highest authority in that state. Do they connect in other ways? Probably, I'd say bankers have more power than freemasons.

In terms magick, as I mentioned earlier in this thread I looked into it when I was younger, and it seems like a complex fantasy. If we define magick as the ability of the will and intent to influence the material most things around us can be called magick. Imagine for example just your mood, or aura as it's called in game. There are subtle things going on where we can influence the people around us. I've been in such a good mood some days random people just ask me questions out of the blue.

I tend to look at a lot of this stuff as forces which can be harnessed for good or evil. Just like nuclear energy or electricity can kill or enhance civilization so can will and intent. Angels, demons, spirits, etc. can be thought of as metaphors for the forces of the universe.

From what I've read magicians see humans as being in the middle of the spiritual plane. Below us are the untamed infernal dark forces. The darkest part of our psyche, all the evils in the world. Above us there is the goal of a spiritual union with God.

The actual modus operandi seems pretty simple enough. They make a wish, do the ritual, call up the spirit to do a task and wait for it to happen. This seems to me just an extremely elaborate and spiritual form of goal setting. In fact it seems kind of hokey in a way.

"I want to have the ability to date and hook up with runway models."

The person then performs the ritual, calls up a spirit, and waits for the result.

But what really happens when you set a goal or do 'magick'? The thing that needs to change is you. Maybe you're not the type of guy
that models date. Maybe your game isn't good enough, you're not in the right social circle, or you're lacking something else...how far will you go?

Or let's say a guy wants to be an actor and make it Hollywood. Like the other thread about Hollywood being cult, what is he willing to give up to make it? A guy can can bang models all day as a pornstar, but what will that take? Doing gay for pay? Is that person willing to 'sell their soul to the devil'?

And that's where this stuff becomes bizarre. I think that people can accomplish nearly anything in life, but there's always something to give up. Always. There's never a free lunch. Whether it's a 'pact' where the person gives his soul for riches or women. Or just something simple like starting your own business where you give time and energy. Time and energy that could be spent doing something else.

Anyway, I know I've gone off on a tangent here, just an interesting subject.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-13-2016 09:43 PM)Neo Wrote:  

There's also the fact that there really is no higher governing body. In the US each state has a grand lodge which is the highest authority in that state. Do they connect in other ways? Probably, I'd say bankers have more power than freemasons.

No higher governing body, officially. Once you get past the 33rd degree, the trail ends. Which would make sense if you think about it. If you're an ancient and powerful group, to make yourself visible to the public at large is to make yourself a vulnerable target. If the top of your hierarchy isn't officially recognized or even visible, how can it be targeted?

There's also nothing suggesting that bankers and freemasons must be mutually exclusive. There are many examples of freemasons in very high positions, including politicians, bankers, generals, and clergy. Perhaps the obvious ones are the bonesmen of Yale reaching the presidency and controlling the OSS and eventually the CIA. Upon reaching critical mass in government, banking, military, and media, it wouldn't be that difficult to control the selection process of who reaches positions of influence.

[The Beast1]

(04-13-2016 09:43 PM)Neo Wrote:  

In terms magick, as I mentioned earlier in this thread I looked into it when I was younger, and it seems like a complex fantasy. If we define magick as the ability of the will and intent to influence the material most things around us can be called magick. Imagine for example just your mood, or aura as it's called in game. There are subtle things going on where we can influence the people around us. I've been in such a good mood some days random people just ask me questions out of the blue.

I tend to look at a lot of this stuff as forces which can be harnessed for good or evil. Just like nuclear energy or electricity can kill or enhance civilization so can will and intent. Angels, demons, spirits, etc. can be thought of as metaphors for the forces of the universe.

From what I've read magicians see humans as being in the middle of the spiritual plane. Below us are the untamed infernal dark forces. The darkest part of our psyche, all the evils in the world. Above us there is the goal of a spiritual union with God.

The actual modus operandi seems pretty simple enough. They make a wish, do the ritual, call up the spirit to do a task and wait for it to happen. This seems to me just an extremely elaborate and spiritual form of goal setting. In fact it seems kind of hokey in a way.

"I want to have the ability to date and hook up with runway models."

The person then performs the ritual, calls up a spirit, and waits for the result.

But what really happens when you set a goal or do 'magick'? The thing that needs to change is you. Maybe you're not the type of guy
that models date. Maybe your game isn't good enough, you're not in the right social circle, or you're lacking something else...how far will you go?

Or let's say a guy wants to be an actor and make it Hollywood. Like the other thread about Hollywood being cult, what is he willing to give up to make it? A guy can can bang models all day as a pornstar, but what will that take? Doing gay for pay? Is that person willing to 'sell their soul to the devil'?

And that's where this stuff becomes bizarre. I think that people can accomplish nearly anything in life, but there's always something to give up. Always. There's never a free lunch. Whether it's a 'pact' where the person gives his soul for riches or women. Or just something simple like starting your own business where you give time and energy. Time and energy that could be spent doing something else.

Anyway, I know I've gone off on a tangent here, just an interesting subject.

The phrase, "As it is above, so it is below" hit me here.

I think there's something to that. Maybe when these magical exercises occur we are conjuring spirits who will possess us as an avatar. You still have free will and what not, but there is definitely a sort of, "intelligence" sitting on the shoulder. Take lust, euphoria, anger,w/e for example, maybe the emotions we feel are spirits living vicariously through us.

Maybe us humans perceive a very small portion of the real world while having a sort of "antenna" that spreads across multiple realms. While we don't see it, they certainly exist and can be influenced . These intelligences communicate with us for better or for worse depending on our actions done here on this plane.

What if our universe is an elaborate show created by a bunch of spirits working in the background?

How the hell does that particle know when it is being observed? If this isn't proof of an intelligence operating just barely beyond our realm I don't know what is.

In the past, humans believed heavily in "spirits" and other stuff influencing the world they saw. Maybe as we've gotten better at observing the real world, these spirits knowing they would be seen from our scientific creations would throw up another level of deception to throw us off.

Now that we've got down to the particle level, they're out of options! At the quantum level I bet to get the answer as to why the particle is doing what it is doing is to find a way to break the confines of this dimension and straight up ask that spirit, "Yo wtf are you doing?"

[hydrogonian]

Freemasons represent an aspect of Kabbalah, but the eschatology of their myths transcends their role and is entirely Kabbalistic. In other words, they play a role but do not see themselves as the only players. Though, this is the nature of all Kabbalists. Kabbalists begin as one thing and look to attain being as another through a process of alchemical marriage with another thing that allows for both things to transcend what they were. Their particular mythology pushes Freemasons toward a belief in the sociopolitical eschatology of the Kabbalists.

The eschatology is expressed in alchemical allegory within the Freemasonic myth. The purpose of the Freemasonic myth is not to teach moral lessons in my opinion, but to communicate Freemasonic identity (their role) and Kabbalistic belief principles.

I've read accounts that indicate that the advanced esoterism comes in after one graduates from the regular Freemasonic lodge and advances in initiation into other orders / lodges. This may or may not be true.

Look at the Freemasonic tracing board. It's the Kabbalist Tree represented in symbol; both representing its general structure and some specific concepts. Though, one has to be aware of the goal of Kabbalah, as well as of its associated myths in our deeper history, to perceive the most important parts of it.

Quote:

There's also nothing suggesting that bankers and freemasons must be mutually exclusive.

Freemasons, and others, hold that banking began with the Knights Templar; the society that was foundational to European Freemasonry. Sign your check before you cash it.

Quote:

But what really happens when you set a goal or do 'magick'?

In my opinion, so called esoteric "magick" is merely parlance for the ability to successfully exert your Free Will over your environment to include transcendance of both environmental nature and your nature.

To illustrate, our jets would have looked like magick to people of two thousand years ago. Similarly, the ability to manipulate people to your will is also a type of magick. Being able to ignore and break social norms and laws is also a form of magick to them that they view it as proof of their triumphant free will and thus their divinity over the profane. Hence, the antinomianism and dualistic nature of the more advanced practitioners.

Quote:

And while the Catholic Church has historically been against Freemasonry, even some of their own higher ups have supported leniency towards Catholics becoming Masons.

I see too much blatant Kabbalist symbolism in places like Saint Peter's Basilica to be convinced that they are truly against Freemasonry for at least 500 or so years now (since it was built, and so likely well before). I'm excluding other major cathedrals where it is as bad or worse. I could presume that a Freemasonic saboteur architect got involved for the other cathedrals, but for the Basilica we have to presume that including such elements is intentional.

Also, Kabbalists such as Max Heindel have explicitly stated that the hostility between Freemaonsry and Catholicism was a false front in order to bring about an eventual alchemical marriage between the two.

Remember that the central theme and goal of Hermeticism (and the Kabbalah) is the wedding of opposites. To reach their synthesis that transcends either, there must be two opposites represented.

Though, I don't see Catholicism as a perfect opposite. I suppose, though, it was enough of one for long-enough time to get the job done. Freemasonry and Catholicism aren't really strict opposites as Catholicism, itself, is somewhat of a hybrid of the sun and moon (work and grace; transcendence of nature and nature; kings and priests; fire and water).

Perhaps Catholicism was the result of an early attempt at an alchemical marriage. This seems likely for the "Catholic" religion that was meant to, and largely did, include much of the world under its umbrella.

In a purely mythological sense, Freemasons are the unwedded Sun and something else is the moon. Cursory knowledge of religion easily identifies the moon; though the moon is also seemingly a modern hybrid for a long time now - likely trying its own hand at alchemy within itself.

I'll leave you with the thought that all of this is ultimately about sociological and political goals. Freemasonry, Kabbalism, and associated organizations and practices are essentially concerned with changing the social milieu; whether or not lower ranking members are aware of it.

If you aren't on-board with the political or social agendas, or aren't aware of them, then maybe don't pedestalize nor practice "magick", at least on any social scale, before you are aware and can say that you agree with them. I can't say that I know what their general goals for sure, though the current state of my impression perceives them as generally counter to the overall political tone of this forum. Also, I would never assume that what I think that I know isn't disinformation.

Last, it's difficult to parse where the Kabbalism begins and ends, considering that it envelops Christianity within its myth, structure, and symbolism. Did that envelopment come after Christianity or was Christianity intentionally developed to fulfill Kabbalistic goals? Not knowing is a problem, and the symbolism within Catholic sanctuaries does not make the problem easier. Is Kabbalism an original religion, a stolen religion, an elite religion, or merely a degenerate and evil religion (in comparison with what we are told is 'good' and 'evil' in Biblical myth)? The Kabbalists will state one thing, Christians another, and other occultists and pagans another. It's a difficult puzzle to solve.

I do perceive that much of Kabbalistic doctrine came out of the difficulty of rule over people, and the reality of guiding those people in a multipolar world.

The key is likely to objectively identify good and evil and to make comparison as to which religions promote either category. Though this is a difficult, if not impossible task, in itself.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-14-2016 12:49 PM)hydrogonian Wrote:  

Also, Kabbalists such as Max Heindel have explicitly stated that the hostility between Freemaonsry and Catholicism was a false front in order to bring about an eventual alchemical marriage between the two.

Remember that the central theme and goal of Hermeticism (and the Kabbalah) is the wedding of opposites. To reach their synthesis that transcends either, there must be two opposites represented.

That sounds remarkably like the Hegelian dialectic:

Quote:

an interpretive method in which some assertible proposition (thesis) is necessarily opposed by an equally assertible and apparently contradictory proposition (antithesis), the contradiction being reconciled on a higher level of truth by a third proposition (synthesis)

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Hegelian+dialectic

[hydrogonian]

[hydrogonian]

[hydrogonian]

[Marcus187]

I wouldn't mess with it, because it's real.

It's based on ancient knowledge that is mostly gone in Western countries, because it was seen as primitive by Christian leaders. The truth is: there are more worlds besides ours. There are 'Hellish worlds' and 'Heavenly worlds'. If you want to fuck people up, you can do some rituals to bring entities of the 'Hellish worlds' to our world and they will do what you want. Of course you have to give them something in return. Ever noticed why they offer meat and alcohol? Because that's what the 'degenerate entities' want in return.

They say that the gods worshipped in pre-Christian times are entities living in the 'Heavenly worlds'. They are not God himself, but simply entities who are more evolved than humans and have more power than us. They have a free will too, so they can decide by themselves if they want to answer your prayers and help you.

The reason you shouldn't mess with the 'evil entities' is the same reason you shouldn't mess with fucked up people. You can't trust them and they will turn against you if it will benefit them.

[hydrogonian]

The Baldachin at Saint Peter's Basilica:







Other:



Rejected Design:

[ColSpanker]

This thread is definitely going the way I wanted when I bumped it. Everyone is making the kind of contributions which make it fun to read. I wish all the threads could go this way, but human nature and stuff.
Some observations:
Aurini- I love your podcasts and have learned a lot from them. I'm trying to get through your documentary, but time constraints has made this hard. I have adopted the Trivium as my "go to" book to cut through contemporary BS. HOWEVER, that post of yours was all over the place. Are you advocating demonology as an answer to psychology? I would find that odd since you have lectured about psychology on your podcast. Enlighten me if you may.
As for the rest, there seems to be some fearful appreciation of the Freemasons. Sorry, but I have had uncles who worked the square and compass. They were all a bunch of hard-right types. Everyone else I knew who was involved with the Freemasons were in it for the business connections. If this is a secret society that controls human history, the Men In Black should cash in their stocks.
Now, I understand the newer and younger Freemasons are a little different. They seem to be waiting for the old farts to be put out to pasture so they can do something with the lodges. Hard to say where it will go after that. I've met a few of the new ones and they seem like good men.
Keep in mind there are many varieties of Freemasons. Most belong to the main lodges, but there are all kinds of unrecognized groups considered "clandestine". Most of the Black American lodges are called "Prince Hall" lodges from a man, who, banned from joining white lodges, started his own. I'm told the Prince Hall Lodges keep it real and don't mess around. I'd look into joining one, but have had bad experiences being the odd man out in the past.
As for the Western Magical tradition, I'm still undecided about its value. The Beast1 wanted to use the double slit physics experiment as some kind of spirits from the deep demonstration. I invoke Occam's Razor and go for the simplest answer, which Quantum Physics provides in the way of wavicles. Perhaps we will know more and travel faster than light some day, but I'm not expecting it to happen in this lifetime.
Keep those mystical patterns coming, they brighten up my day.

[scorpion]

(04-14-2016 09:53 PM)ColSpanker Wrote:  

As for the rest, there seems to be some fearful appreciation of the Freemasons. Sorry, but I have had uncles who worked the square and compass. They were all a bunch of hard-right types. Everyone else I knew who was involved with the Freemasons were in it for the business connections. If this is a secret society that controls human history, the Men In Black should cash in their stocks.

I don't think you understand how these organizations operate. There is no giant table that every Freemason sits around where they plot out evil plans for world domination. Rather, the organization is hierarchical, having 33 degrees (that we know about - there are no doubt additional ranks known only to those who reach that level). Most Freemasons never reach the higher degrees. Why? Because they don't need to. An organization like Freemasonry does not derive its power from all of its members being "in" on its most esoteric doctrines (indeed, that would rather be an enormous weakness). Rather, its power comes from having a vast network of influential men who can be counted on to act in the interests of the organization and its members when needed. Most Freemasons are thus a combination of useful idiots and ambitious ladder climbers totally oblivious to the darker side of Freemasonry. They aren't initiated into the higher degrees because there would be no benefit to themselves or the organization if they were. They're simply "in the club" for the professional benefits and are willing to play ball when needed. This is why the Freemasons love to stuff their lower ranks with lawyers, judges, police and military officers, etc... Men in those professions can be extremely useful to call upon for favors every now and then, and have a lot of practical "on the ground" power useful for getting things done. These men don't need to be aware that according to the 33rd degree rites their organization is working in service of Lucifer. They simply view themselves as doing favors (and receiving benefits in turn) for fellow members of their organization.

[ColSpanker]

So let me get this straight scorpion, you are saying the Freemasons are the minions of Satan?