[Thoughtcrime]

Pardon me if anyone has covered this topic already, but this has been on my mind lately a bit..
I think many of us will agree that the current hookup culture, the sexual liberation of the recent decades is probably not optimal for the advancement of society from a cultural standpoint. Or a scientific one. Or an artistic one. Its primary pursuit is narcissism and hedonism. It's fun, but that's all it is. Immediate gratification. And those who are at the top of the sexual pyramid can gorge themselves as much as they please. The rest of us either wallow in misery or ignorance or we may even be inspired to ascend to greater heights, ourselves.
But is this really going to cause a collapse in our society? I do know the common economic arguments surrounding this. Women generally vote for increased taxation while working lame jobs or good jobs that they were granted due to the pussy pass. They bleed the economy more than contribute to it. However, let's think about the men, too. All the men. Not just the entrepreneurial and brilliant ones. Let's not forget about the average Joes among us. With the constant advances in technology, where will that leave society, as a whole? There are only so many fake administrative jobs that can be created even for women.

Let me cut to the chase - to my thesis. There is no decline. Not in the doomsday, fatalistic sense that I read about on /r/theredpill all the time. Society will not collapse just because women are slutting around so much and just because so many men are less ambitious now because society expects less of them. Technology will, at some point in the not too distant future (i.e. in our lifetimes), will result in so much labor being done for us, and not by us, that we will inevitably have to search for meaning in our lives, as individuals. Sluts gonna slut. Geniuses gonna go and keep making Linuxes, Teslas, space shuttles, smart phones and so on. Creatives and thinkers shall go on creating music, movies, writing books, etc. And those of us less talented or ambitious will have to figure out what we can do in our lives that's meaningful.. to us, as individuals. The church or the nuclear family will not be there to affirm our life choices or to shake their finger disapprovingly.

I hope this was not a rambling mess. Let me know your thoughts, gents.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-08-2016 01:17 AM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  

Let me cut to the chase - to my thesis. There is no decline. Not in the doomsday, fatalistic sense that I read about on /r/theredpill all the time. Society will not collapse just because women are slutting around so much and just because so many men are less ambitious now because society expects less of them. Technology will, at some point in the not too distant future (i.e. in our lifetimes), will result in so much labor being done for us, and not by us, that we will inevitably have to search for meaning in our lives, as individuals. Sluts gonna slut. Geniuses gonna go and keep making Linuxes, Teslas, space shuttles, smart phones and so on. Creatives and thinkers shall go on creating music, movies, writing books, etc. And those of us less talented or ambitious will have to figure out what we can do in our lives that's meaningful.. to us, as individuals. The church or the nuclear family will not be there to affirm our life choices or to shake their finger disapprovingly.

Who will pay for these easy clerical jobs? The government?

Who will fund the government?

Men pay the vast majority of taxes in the country. What incentive do they have to work harder beyond a basic subsistence level? In the past, it was to provide for the needs of their family, as it was guaranteed that the assets would be passed on to their posterity.

Now there is zero assurance that a man's production will be given to his family. Often the family is severed through no fault of his own, he is transformed into an indentured servant, and his forced child support payments will go to trivial purchases, not to the betterment of his posterity.

So men will avoid marriage and family formation, as can be seen by the falling marriage rate. Men without families are much less productive, and often produce just enough to meet their own basic and hedonistic needs. They will generate less taxes, making the massive government employee base and welfare state unsustainable.





Women are physically weaker, and evolved in an environment where they were suited towards domestic tasks. They often fall behind men in competitive environments, dangerous environments, and ones requiring spatial or analytical ability. They are often worse with finances, long term planning, and will often live for the now over the future. Historically, women have either relied on the surplus production of a man, or required a massive centralized government in order to sustain them.

Governments rely on the excess production of men in order to sustain themselves. Women and governments are net consumers, whereas only men are net producers. Where is the incentive of the producer to produce? There is none. Womens' entitlements and government expenditures will grow much faster until they can't, and will eventually collapse. We have exceeded the carrying capacity of the producers. The environment we know of today will be forced to transform.





To understand what the future brings, you must not assume that most things will remain a steady state. Everything in this world is a variable, and the unseen variables are often what decide our fate.

[CleanSlate]

^ Can you please cite the sources for the 1st, 3rd, and 4th graphs? I want to do more reading on that subject.

By the way, this could be a good article for the Kings Wiki.

[RexImperator]

That second graph is constructed in a very misleading way.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-08-2016 07:59 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

That second graph is constructed in a very misleading way.

Same Y axis range now.

CleanSlate Wrote:

^ Can you please cite the sources for the 1st, 3rd, and 4th graphs? I want to do more reading on that subject.

Got the graphs from google searches, though they're well covered (with the exception of marraige rates) on Zerohedge. I'd go to the site and do a search for the topics of "Labor force participation rate", "Deficit", etc.

[yeppels]

(04-08-2016 01:17 AM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  

Let me cut to the chase - to my thesis. There is no decline. Not in the doomsday, fatalistic sense that I read about on /r/theredpill all the time. Society will not collapse just because women are slutting around so much and just because so many men are less ambitious now because society expects less of them.

Kind of off-topic but when I first discovered the manospehere, I used to read /r/theredpill as well, but I very quickly started to dislike it. It screams toxicity to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but the message I get when I read it is 'fuck women for making our society into this shithole we have now', as in they're blaming women for everything that's wrong with their lives. Reading their posts really makes it seem like the posters who are the loudest and most upvoted truly hate women for everything they are. This forum is less extreme in that regard and is more about 'let's go and fuck women' though sometimes the former shows up as well.

[Satoshi]

^ I couldn't agree more.

[TheOllam]

(04-08-2016 01:17 AM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  

Pardon me if anyone has covered this topic already, but this has been on my mind lately a bit..
I think many of us will agree that the current hookup culture, the sexual liberation of the recent decades is probably not optimal for the advancement of society from a cultural standpoint. Or a scientific one. Or an artistic one. Its primary pursuit is narcissism and hedonism. It's fun, but that's all it is. Immediate gratification. And those who are at the top of the sexual pyramid can gorge themselves as much as they please. The rest of us either wallow in misery or ignorance or we may even be inspired to ascend to greater heights, ourselves.
But is this really going to cause a collapse in our society? I do know the common economic arguments surrounding this. Women generally vote for increased taxation while working lame jobs or good jobs that they were granted due to the pussy pass. They bleed the economy more than contribute to it. However, let's think about the men, too. All the men. Not just the entrepreneurial and brilliant ones. Let's not forget about the average Joes among us. With the constant advances in technology, where will that leave society, as a whole? There are only so many fake administrative jobs that can be created even for women.

Let me cut to the chase - to my thesis. There is no decline. Not in the doomsday, fatalistic sense that I read about on /r/theredpill all the time. Society will not collapse just because women are slutting around so much and just because so many men are less ambitious now because society expects less of them. Technology will, at some point in the not too distant future (i.e. in our lifetimes), will result in so much labor being done for us, and not by us, that we will inevitably have to search for meaning in our lives, as individuals. Sluts gonna slut. Geniuses gonna go and keep making Linuxes, Teslas, space shuttles, smart phones and so on. Creatives and thinkers shall go on creating music, movies, writing books, etc. And those of us less talented or ambitious will have to figure out what we can do in our lives that's meaningful.. to us, as individuals. The church or the nuclear family will not be there to affirm our life choices or to shake their finger disapprovingly.

I hope this was not a rambling mess. Let me know your thoughts, gents.

I agree, we are not going to suddenly implode.

Perhaps a slow decline ala Rome. That took 700 years to fall apart.

In the USA, we got RESOURCES, and the North American Fortress. In Theory we could wall up and survive thousands of years without the outside world.

But we don't need to do that. America can be strong as a nation and still interact with the rest of the globe.

Sluts are gonna slut. What has been revealed is that women are indeed wasteful creatures, and some point along the way, it's just going to become more obvious. All these sniveling children eventually grow up and realize the problem, and things change. Been going on since the beginning of time.

The difference over the past 8 years has been the explosion of group think via social media, it's reached a peak moment where the public now sees the game and is changing their ways. At Facebook, Execs are worried that people are not sharing enough. LOL, people are realizing that they are tired of creating free content for a platform that is not directly reimbursing them.

Even more hilarious are all the women that thought they could really be professional social media managers for the rest of their lives. We all know it's bullshit now, please move along!

We are moving towards a rebalance with the Millenial generation. I was born in 81, the very oldest of this group as defined by Pew research.

Guess whats happening?

THE WALL. All the women my age are either crushed by it, or have been married a few years with kids.

This is great for me, because I still look young, but have resources. I'm transitioning to younger women now! My SMV has many years of peak ahead. I don't need to rush a god damn thing, and the less I care the more women love it!

I'm old enough to remember the last time a boom like this happened. It's called the 80's, it was a good time for the right men to find women and start families if they so wished. May not be in my immediate game plan now, but confident, masculine, productive Men are going to pull some sense back into things one way or another. And they will not wait for the Government, they are just going to do it.

And all the whiny cry-babies can have their votes, real men will overcome the BS, privatize their earnings and develop smart ways to get along so we can all go along, so to speak. This forum proves it.

[Thoughtcrime]

(04-08-2016 07:28 AM)thoughtgypsy Wrote:  

Governments rely on the excess production of men in order to sustain themselves. Women and governments are net consumers, whereas only men are net producers. Where is the incentive of the producer to produce? There is none. Womens' entitlements and government expenditures will grow much faster until they can't, and will eventually collapse. We have exceeded the carrying capacity of the producers. The environment we know of today will be forced to transform.

"Transform" is the key word. The government will inevitably have to cut in certain places. But I'm still having a lot of faith in the future advances in technology and medicine. If medicine can make significant leaps, wouldn't that significantly reduce the healthcare costs? That would alleviate budgetary shortcomings.

Meanwhile, the government, itself, will have to shrink. I also predict that with menial jobs being automated out of existence (primarily held by men), at some point, society will recognize that feminism has gone too far and that men need to not be treated unfavorably by the educational system and in the workforce. I know many here will take issue with the importance of acquiring a formal education, but we can reword it to mean something that facilitates workforce participation.

I must same, I'm shocked by the 2nd graph - the 'Labor Force Participation Rate' one. 42% vs 57%? I feel like this isn't common knowledge, because if it was, you'd think it would be shouted from the rooftops.

Nice name, by the way ^_^

(04-08-2016 05:34 PM)TheOllam Wrote:  

I agree, we are not going to suddenly implode.

Perhaps a slow decline ala Rome. That took 700 years to fall apart.

700 years is a loooong time. Think of how much our world has changed in the last 100 years alone. I personally think that the world will start becoming more even, at least in economic terms. Just think of all the countries in Asia or Eastern Europe that are rising from irrelevance.

[Thoughtcrime]

(04-08-2016 11:57 AM)yeppels Wrote:  

Kind of off-topic but when I first discovered the manospehere, I used to read /r/theredpill as well, but I very quickly started to dislike it. It screams toxicity to me. Maybe I'm wrong, but the message I get when I read it is 'fuck women for making our society into this shithole we have now', as in they're blaming women for everything that's wrong with their lives. Reading their posts really makes it seem like the posters who are the loudest and most upvoted truly hate women for everything they are. This forum is less extreme in that regard and is more about 'let's go and fuck women' though sometimes the former shows up as well.

I am starting to think the same. The overwhelming negativity of TRP is not exactly productive. It seems like TRPs are just one step away from going MGTOW. From going celibate. From going against their nature.

[thoughtgypsy]

(04-08-2016 09:24 PM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  

"Transform" is the key word. The government will inevitably have to cut in certain places. But I'm still having a lot of faith in the future advances in technology and medicine. If medicine can make significant leaps, wouldn't that significantly reduce the healthcare costs? That would alleviate budgetary shortcomings.

This is already very possible, but there is no political will to do so. The US spends more than any other country on a per capita basis, yet has much worse health statistics compared to many developed countries.

A huge part of that is the monopolies (which are illegal through the Sherman and Clayton acts) in the health insurance and pharmaceutical industries. They should not be able to price fix drugs (it's illegal to import the same drug from overseas), such as antivenom, which costs $80 in mexico, and $80,000 in the US. They should publish the costs of treatment ahead of time (When you take your car into the shop, does the mechanic tell you he can't give you a ball park cost to change your oil, then hit you with a $1000 bill? No. This is the only industry that does that.) Take care of that, and the cost of healthcare goes down 80% overnight.

The issue is these industries are so powerful, and they make massive contributions to political campaigns. It's part of the rent seeking behavior that is destroying this country from the inside out.

(04-08-2016 09:24 PM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  

Meanwhile, the government, itself, will have to shrink. I also predict that with menial jobs being automated out of existence (primarily held by men), at some point, society will recognize that feminism has gone too far and that men need to not be treated unfavorably by the educational system and in the workforce. I know many here will take issue with the importance of acquiring a formal education, but we can reword it to mean something that facilitates workforce participation.

I must same, I'm shocked by the 2nd graph - the 'Labor Force Participation Rate' one. 42% vs 57%? I feel like this isn't common knowledge, because if it was, you'd think it would be shouted from the rooftops.

Nice name, by the way ^_^

I agree the government will be forced to shrink. What's unsustainable will ultimately end. It will be forced upon us by our creditors eventually. As RexImperator noted, the labor force participation graph is confusing. The labor force participation rates for men and women are about 68% and 57%, respectively. It is still a massive decrease in labor force participation from the historic peak among men. If you could break it down by men below the 34 year age cohort, I'd bet the trend would be even more striking.

Thanks for the comment on my name, I actually don't like it that much and've been thinking of changing it haha.

(04-08-2016 09:24 PM)Thoughtcrime Wrote:  

700 years is a loooong time. Think of how much our world has changed in the last 100 years alone. I personally think that the world will start becoming more even, at least in economic terms. Just think of all the countries in Asia or Eastern Europe that are rising from irrelevance.

Things will change much faster than that. We are in the end stages of petrodollar hegemony. I expect the world will begin to move away from the USD, and there will be a forced devaluation of ultimately 80% or more in it's value. Expect it to happen in the next 5-10 years. That will be a game changer for most people. More interesting conversation on the topic here:
thread-53234.html

[CleanSlate]

An 80% devaluation of the US dollar would be devastating. Not only to the US but to many currencies pegged to the USD.

Maybe we should start thinking about how to diversify out of the USD. Problem is, the USD is the best looking horse of the bunch as of today. Thoughts on what the next best currency that isn't pegged to the dollar?

[TheOllam]

(04-09-2016 09:43 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

An 80% devaluation of the US dollar would be devastating. Not only to the US but to many currencies pegged to the USD.

Maybe we should start thinking about how to diversify out of the USD. Problem is, the USD is the best looking horse of the bunch as of today. Thoughts on what the next best currency that isn't pegged to the dollar?

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is King. Don't underestimate USA. 5-10 years ago they were predicting the demise of the petro-dollar, but the forecast keeps extending out. I agree, ultimately USA cannot be the only global force, but it still remains firmly number 1 by way of being in the "new world" with huge untapped resources. Rich globalists continue to send their kids to school here for a reason.

Next best currency is "digital" where you can easily move in and out of several currencies through speedy transactions, and ownership of assets that can produce wealth. Bit coin still feels Topsy turvey, but long term it's the ability to move money ahead of the herd that keeps the wealth intact.