[barnbarn2k]

I'll preface my idea by saying for the most part I am happy with my job and my salary. My employer's turnover rate has been horrible this year, and new unexperienced and untrained employees are starting at pretty decent money. Not a whole lot less than what I make.

My idea is to submit a fake resume to my company with very similiar work experience to see what they would offer the fake person for a starting salary. The company is a decent sized company with offices all over the country. I would submit the resume to the corporate HR dept not the branch I work at. Id set up a fake Facebook, Email, and use my burner phone for the contact number and have a trusted friend answer if they call.

For those who wonder why not just sit down with my area supervisors and discuss my pay... the company quit negotating salary and wages about 5 years ago, every year we are given 1.5% raises and that is it. I can only recall 3 instances in 7 years that they have negotiated with people so that they didnt quit or to bring them back, which was very controversial.

Good idea? or not.

[rustylions]

A 1.5% raise is not a raise.

They are paying you less every year. Historical inflation rate in the U.S is 3% or so.

If a job doesn't offer me a CPI or above raise each year, I'm out.

In my opinion, the company you work for has no long-term prospects. A company that doesn't negotiate compensation with employees is doomed to hire the lowest schlub for the job.

What benefits are you getting that convince you to stick around?

[Wahawahwah]

Stick around in the company but start fishing outside.
A 1.5% raise is still better than being unemployed.
Keep working, but put efforts into moving out.

Depending on the industry, its current outlook, your skillset, experience, the current company's prestige switching may be easy or difficult. Even if it takes time, keep at it.

Sending a fake resume to your company is a waste of your time and efforts at best and could be grounds for termination at worst if the company finds out. Besides, if they do offer the person a better salary, what are you going to do about it? Confront your bosses? Not a particularly good idea.
Don't stick around in a company if they dont negotiate salaries (unless you have some massive upside like fast track promotion, increased responsibility, prestige or whatever).
Your efforts are better redirected towards improving your future outlook.
Also, regardless of where you end up, always be looking for better opportunities, even on your first day at the office.

Good luck

[Repo]

A better idea is to submit a resume at another company doing the same thing and see how much you can get out of them. Worst case, its not enough and you say no.

[Atlantic]

Best way to get a raise is by switching companies. Companies rarely increase wages by much in-house.

[el mechanico]

(06-13-2015 08:31 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

Best way to get a raise is by switching companies. Companies rarely increase wages by much in-house.

Until your resume looks like you're not worth teaching anything to.

[Basil Ransom]

Your idea is terrible, OP.

Here's what you do:

1. Fish around for a better offer elsewhere.
2. Tell your company you'd like to discuss salary. If they refuse, tell them you'd like to stay where you are, but you'd like a competitive salary, and you know that you can get more elsewhere.
3. If they offer you more, stay. If they don't, leave.

Ultimately though, if they aren't offering more, and you still want to stay, then you're stuck with your current salary. It all depends on how easily you can be replaced, and how credible your threat of leaving is. That's why you should get a real outside offer, and not bluff. Because if they call your bluff, you'll have no choice but to stay and look like an idiot with a tarnished reputation.

Be honest, but be discrete. Once you do get the offer, don't tell your company how much it was, and try to get even more than your offer.

[Atlantic]

(06-13-2015 09:10 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(06-13-2015 08:31 PM)Atlantic Wrote:  

Best way to get a raise is by switching companies. Companies rarely increase wages by much in-house.

Until your resume looks like you're not worth teaching anything to.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/...d-50-less/

Quote:

In 2014, the average employee is going to earn less than a 1% raise and there is very little that we can do to change management’s decision. But, we can decide whether we want to stay at a company that is going to give us a raise for less than 1%. The average raise an employee receives for leaving is between a 10% to 20% increase in salary. Obviously, there are extreme cases where people receive upwards of 50%, but this depends on each person’s individual circumstances and industries.

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2014/12/2...ging-jobs/

Quote:

In an economic recovery weighed down by subdued income growth for most Americans, a Kansas City Fed paper suggests those who are moving on to new jobs are better able to negotiate pay increases.

“Unlike wages of stayers, wages of switchers are much more cyclically sensitive, as contracts signed with new employers are more likely to reflect current economic conditions,” he writes in a research note. “We find that switchers’ wage growth has been quite strong the past several quarters as the labor market continues to tighten.”

[el mechanico]

50% less huh? I really hope you and also hope you didn't spend any time looking for that.

Maybe in a job rich environment companies want to steal workers but in the US it means you're a retard.

Ali went to Texas to play these odds.

[Atlantic]

Well its case by case. This guy has 7 years experience with the same company. His best chance for an increase is switching it up, especially if they have locked raises down for the last 5 years. Compared to sending fake emails his time is much better spent emailing other competing companies legitimately.

[barnbarn2k]

Thanks for the responses.

Why stick around? It's a good question... I live in a small quiet town and can walk to work its about a 6 blocks away. I'm not really a supervisor but the next closest thing. As far as responsibility and prestige i have a lot. Career wise both my bosses are 10 years older than me and I think they will be around for a while.

I get 5 weeks paid vacation 65% of my insurance paid for. I get to do my own thing at work and hardly ever get hassled by management.

[The Beast1]

If new hires are getting paid more than you, why don't you just ask your manager for a raise citing that?

The worst he'll do is say no. No need for doing elaborate tricks. This type of thing happens all of the time.

I knew a project manager who started at 30k and had her there for two years. The company realized that she was the lowest paid and bumped her up to the median pay of 45k without her asking for it. Not every company is proactive. Do some leg work, you'll probably be surprised.

[Cobra]

Already said above as far as "shopping around your resume."

It's obvious that you want the security and comfort of your current job and also a higher salary. 99% of the time it's not possible.

I know you're skeptical of what's out there. However, you HAVE to get over it. Take some days off and go on a few interviews. Understand your value.

There are also other ways to understand your value that I covered in my article below in my signature.

Venture out into the world and network man!

[barnbarn2k]

(06-14-2015 08:17 AM)The Beast1 Wrote:  

If new hires are getting paid more than you, why don't you just ask your manager for a raise citing that?

The worst he'll do is say no. No need for doing elaborate tricks. This type of thing happens all of the time.

I knew a project manager who started at 30k and had her there for two years. The company realized that she was the lowest paid and bumped her up to the median pay of 45k without her asking for it. Not every company is proactive. Do some leg work, you'll probably be surprised.

New hires are making about 3.50 USD/hr less than what I am. What bothers me is that corporation wide I am the best at what I do. And its not even close. it costs me .50cents per unit, the next person is 1.00 dollar and number 3 is 1.60. everyone knows this. It has its advantages, if I need something or wanna try something I get a lot of leeway but most my techniques end up making me more efficient yet the supervisors and corporate gets the credit for it.

The blog postings Atlantic were pretty eye opening and makes a lot of sense.

I guess next step is putting together a resume.

[Cattle Rustler]

I have two questions:

1 - Why aren't you getting promoted?

2 - Do your higher ups (Directors,Regional, VPs, SVPs, CEO) like you?

[barnbarn2k]

(06-14-2015 04:01 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I have two questions:

1 - Why aren't you getting promoted?

2 - Do your higher ups (Directors,Regional, VPs, SVPs, CEO) like you?

I do not have a college degree, and I know that it shouldnt matter, but it does with this company. Everyone that has went to college and graduated has instantly been promoted.

They talk to me and we seem to get along but I havent always been such a great employee. They dont really ask my opinion on things, or invite me to lunches or corporate outings. If I had to guess its the Regional Supervisor that is the roadblock, and I think my immediate supervisor gets most of the credit for the job i do. Im more of a black sheep than anything else.

I also wanted to thank people for the comments, its put a lot of things in perspective for me, more than what has been covered.

[Checkmat]

(06-13-2015 09:24 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Your idea is terrible, OP.

Here's what you do:

1. Fish around for a better offer elsewhere.
2. Tell your company you'd like to discuss salary. If they refuse, tell them you'd like to stay where you are, but you'd like a competitive salary, and you know that you can get more elsewhere.
3. If they offer you more, stay. If they don't, leave.

Ultimately though, if they aren't offering more, and you still want to stay, then you're stuck with your current salary. It all depends on how easily you can be replaced, and how credible your threat of leaving is. That's why you should get a real outside offer, and not bluff. Because if they call your bluff, you'll have no choice but to stay and look like an idiot with a tarnished reputation.

Be honest, but be discrete. Once you do get the offer, don't tell your company how much it was, and try to get even more than your offer.

Good advice. I think this book was recommended by Roosh or someone else on the forum a while ago: To Be or Not To Be Intimidated


Guy that wrote it was/is a real estate broker. He talks about negotiating tactics and other money-making type of stuff. One thing he says he does is he never bluffs. He is always willing to walk away from a bad deal. This leaks through in his confidence and micro-behaviors.

[Basil Ransom]

(06-14-2015 04:42 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

Guy that wrote it was/is a real estate broker. He talks about negotiating tactics and other money-making type of stuff. One thing he says he does is he never bluffs. He is always willing to walk away from a bad deal. This leaks through in his confidence and micro-behaviors.

I was thinking of putting that in my post actually, but apparently didn't. "Real gangsta ass niggas don't flex nuts, because real gangsta ass niggas know they got 'em." When you have power, you actually become more subdued and discrete about it, not less. Walking away from a job or from a girl is perhaps the greatest power you have. You state your terms, and if they aren't met, you calmly withdraw, just as you might buy an orange for a quarter but not for a dollar. And as you say, the reality can leak through your body language.

It's easier to commit to not bluffing; that way you don't build a house on sand.

[el mechanico]

Real estate broker is self employed. Has other people he manages making him money while he makes sure it's all legit or responsible.

That has nothing to do with the OP's question.

1. He admits not being a model employee and not invited to certain functions. Also black sheep.

Now.. After 7 years this could go either way. He could be a god for another company or quit his job and get fired in one week.

We do not have enough details to help him any further than thought meatballs.

[Checkmat]

(06-14-2015 07:41 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Real estate broker is self employed. Has other people he manages making him money while he makes sure it's all legit or responsible.

That has nothing to do with the OP's question.

1. He admits not being a model employee and not invited to certain functions. Also black sheep.

Now.. After 7 years this could go either way. He could be a god for another company or quit his job and get fired in one week.

We do not have enough details to help him any further than thought meatballs.

No. The author of the book I posted would sit down to meetings and make deals with buys and sellers, specifically negotiating the terms of contracts for his commission and other things. He's negotiating the value of his time, just like any employee.

The point was that knowing how to negotiate for a higher salary, having other options and being willing to walk away and not bullshit (make empty threats) is a powerful asset.

[CodyB]

OP, are you not incentivised for your output?

[barnbarn2k]

(06-14-2015 09:15 PM)CodyB Wrote:  

OP, are you not incentivised for your output?

My only incentive is to avoid hassles and avoid having to work too many hours. I dont have a quota but I have to produce enough to keep the company moving forward. Whether that takes me 40 hours or 80. I know I could work 80 and get paid for it, but I do enjoy having a personal life.

[el mechanico]

(06-14-2015 08:49 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 07:41 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

Real estate broker is self employed. Has other people he manages making him money while he makes sure it's all legit or responsible.

That has nothing to do with the OP's question.

1. He admits not being a model employee and not invited to certain functions. Also black sheep.

Now.. After 7 years this could go either way. He could be a god for another company or quit his job and get fired in one week.

We do not have enough details to help him any further than thought meatballs.

No. The author of the book I posted would sit down to meetings and make deals with buys and sellers, specifically negotiating the terms of contracts for his commission and other things. He's negotiating the value of his time, just like any employee.

The point was that knowing how to negotiate for a higher salary, having other options and being willing to walk away and not bullshit (make empty threats) is a powerful asset.

Author of a book your read? Or someone you know?

[samsamsam]

(06-13-2015 09:24 PM)Basil Ransom Wrote:  

Your idea is terrible, OP.

Here's what you do:

1. Fish around for a better offer elsewhere.
2. Tell your company you'd like to discuss salary. If they refuse, tell them you'd like to stay where you are, but you'd like a competitive salary, and you know that you can get more elsewhere.
3. If they offer you more, stay. If they don't, leave.

Ultimately though, if they aren't offering more, and you still want to stay, then you're stuck with your current salary. It all depends on how easily you can be replaced, and how credible your threat of leaving is. That's why you should get a real outside offer, and not bluff. Because if they call your bluff, you'll have no choice but to stay and look like an idiot with a tarnished reputation.

Be honest, but be discrete. Once you do get the offer, don't tell your company how much it was, and try to get even more than your offer.

Just be careful, I have heard stories of employers raising a person's salary when they come to them with a new job offer. So they turn down the new offer. A month or so later they get fired. At will employment.

So handle it wisely. Try not to give an ultimatum. Remember you are an adult and sometimes you just don't get your way. So when you have that conversation, just be mentally prepared to move.

Best of luck.

[Cattle Rustler]

(06-14-2015 04:25 PM)barnbarn2k Wrote:  

(06-14-2015 04:01 PM)Cattle Rustler Wrote:  

I have two questions:

1 - Why aren't you getting promoted?

2 - Do your higher ups (Directors,Regional, VPs, SVPs, CEO) like you?

I do not have a college degree, and I know that it shouldnt matter, but it does with this company. Everyone that has went to college and graduated has instantly been promoted.

They talk to me and we seem to get along but I havent always been such a great employee. They dont really ask my opinion on things, or invite me to lunches or corporate outings. If I had to guess its the Regional Supervisor that is the roadblock, and I think my immediate supervisor gets most of the credit for the job i do. Im more of a black sheep than anything else.

I also wanted to thank people for the comments, its put a lot of things in perspective for me, more than what has been covered.

From those two things it seems it's better to get another job or......

Become likeable.

Do something that attracts the attention of your superiors and puts them in a "Barnbarn was a black sheep but I mentored him into a model employee, and now he is successful!". Either that or get someone above your regional to like you so they can transfer you to their department.

Example: The regional guy likes Joe so he got promoted. The branch dude disliked Sallie a lot but the HR director liked her, so she offered Sallie a transfer and he placed it as "I recommend her for the gig, she used to suck but I mentored her and she's a dedicated employee now". It was a win win for everybody. Carlos was not liked by the regional dude so he quit and worked for the competition, got a 20K raise and was well liked.