[RockHard]

I served my wife with divorce papers today. I'm not going to go too deep into what happened. Let's just say that given the opportunity, she exceeded all expectations for what a woman will do with that opportunity. I let this happen to me and that's my fault, but in the end, I think I really wanted to give her enough rope, and she didn't disappoint. All that red pill talk is real, gents.

But enough of that. Unlike Clean Slate, my situation is a bit messier in that we've been married longer and there are kids involved. I'm figuring the situation out. She says she wants an amicable settlement and I want one too, but when push comes to shove I'm sure it'll get bad. She hasn't worked in 10 years and while she's got a certification in an in-demand field, it's not like she's already got a job lined up, and I'll probably have to hire an expert to convince the court that she's not really an unemployable housewife. Also, there's no prenup and it's likely I'll be doing a 50/50 split and my attorney is estimating I'll be paying about 25% of my take-home pay in maintenance for the next 7.5 years. Child support is another matter entirely. It's an expensive lesson in the ways of women. But in the end it's just money. You can always make more.

More immediately, it was one of those "my friends are her friends" deals, so my social circle such as it is is in bad shape. My family is all at least 1,000 miles away, as are most of my close friends. I've got one good buddy from college in town, and I'm pretty good friends socially with a guy from work, but that situation needs to improve.

I need to get back in the gym. I've been nursing a shoulder injury for months and I've hardly done any upper body for 2-3 months. I'm feeling the loss of muscle mass and I've decided I need to get serious on this, go to the Dr. and get an MRI or whatever he wants to get a better look at what's wrong and then get some real treatment.

I also need to spend more time on me. My wardrobe & style need work, and I've got a bunch of interests I haven't pursued but I want to. I'm working on a list of things I want to do more of, or learn for the first time, or get involved in, and the plan for when I'm going to need to move and transition to being a responsible adult 50% of the time and live my life the remainder.

Finally, game. My game was never good. I got into this marriage playing nice guy/provider and I'm not doing that anymore, but I haven't been out there in years and while I've learned a lot and have half heartedly trying to apply this off and on, I'd be kidding myself to say I've got any kind of relevant experience at this shit, aside from over a decade of marriage and trying to deal with your basic female shit from a LTR perspective. So I've gotta face the facts and call myself a newbie - here I am.

So, that's the basics. Right now it feels like I have a million things I need to work on and don't know where to start. I expect that things will be slow on here for a while. Colorado has a 90 day waiting period so it'll be a minimum of 90 days before I'm officially single, and there's a lot of shit to get lined up before that. On the other hand, if I get this stuff handled I can be down at Metro State doing Gio game for the start of the fall semester

[rishboy77]

I only wish I had seen a lawyer secretly before I served my ex papers as like you I was married a long time (14 years) with a child involved.. Make sure to cut out any access to money as my ex sounded amicable but behind my back took $150K from the line of credit backed our house.
It took nearly 3 years, and selling of our house and a settlement that nearly left me in financial ruins after all the lawyers ans accountants got paid..

That said it, I much happier now even through their are times I forget that. It's true money is not everything in life.

Good luck !

[RockHard]

(05-28-2015 03:28 PM)rishboy77 Wrote:  

I only wish I had seen a lawyer secretly before I served my ex papers as like you I was married a long time (14 years) with a child involved.. Make sure to cut out any access to money as my ex sounded amicable but behind my back took $150K from the line of credit backed our house.
It took nearly 3 years, and selling of our house and a settlement that nearly left me in financial ruins after all the lawyers ans accountants got paid..

Good point. Our situation is pretty similar, similar length of marriage and kids. She's definitely plotting to fuck me over financially. I found out what she was up to luckily and told a couple friends and they were all telling me "don't wait, get a lawyer". The good thing is that our finances are now under injunction so if either of us makes a major purchase or investment decision, that can be brought up in court. I was thinking though that we have 2 checking accounts and I should take her off one and take myself off the other and start separating finances ASAP.

It's been a total mindfuck for the last couple weeks, knowing what she's up to yet she's putting on a superficially nice face. That's a real eye opener, having her try to be sweet to me. The guy who married her all those years ago is thinking "oh, man this is nice!", and the guy today is thinking "you bitch... if you only knew how much I know". Another point - since I found out what was brewing I realized that the worst she could do was file for divorce, so I had nothing to lose. I finally let myself not give a fuck, and I really think that made things better. If only I'd learned that lesson years ago, a lot of pain would've been spared. Live and learn...

[samsamsam]

Rockhard, thanks for being willing to share. Hate to see anyone go through this but hopefully the other side will be a shitload of fun and happiness once this is over with.

[Lochte]

Get all the legal help you can while you can

Document everything. Good luck

[RockHard]

I'm telling you, it's a total mindfuck. My wife and I were talking last night and right now she's pushing to have me move to the basement bedroom and then move out. I'm going "why don't you move?" and she's giving no response other than "well, we could fight about that". Fucking mindblowing. I don't even care about the house. If she wants to buy me out, I'll take the cash and buy something with part and then use the rest for an investment property. Or maybe get a place where I can airbnb a room or a carriage house or something. But she gives this whole thing about "what's best for the kids" and I'm supposed to nod my head and go along with it. And then she's talking about how we need to present a united front to the kids and how she wants to still be friends afterwards while lying to my face. We're going to have to set expectations on what a "friend" actually is.

Gonna be a lot more stupid battles ahead.

[samsamsam]

Rockhard, I know you don't really want to discuss what happened but I am guessing whatever she did wasn't best for the kids in the first place.

I am just learning over and over women just have no idea about much. Seems like with every breathe a contradiction or stupid idea pops out. With such unrealistic expectations such as staying friends after (I am assuming) some sort of betrayal/broken trust.

I am not trying to jinx you or anythjng but does she seem like the type to call the police and fabricate a lie? I guess no one can tell how a person will behave during a divorce. Obviously, your lawyer can give you much better advice. I have just heard stories that all of sudden after x number of years of marriage, during the divorce there is a domestic violence incident. All to set up the guy during the settlement.

Hang in there.

[RockHard]

(05-29-2015 08:46 AM)samsamsam Wrote:  

I am not trying to jinx you or anythjng but does she seem like the type to call the police and fabricate a lie? I guess no one can tell how a person will behave during a divorce. Obviously, your lawyer can give you much better advice. I have just heard stories that all of sudden after x number of years of marriage, during the divorce there is a domestic violence incident. All to set up the guy during the settlement.

Yes, there have been multiple levels of trust betrayed. I don't want to get into specifics too much because there's the no edit/no delete policy and I don't want to say something that I'll want to redact later.

My lawyer warned me about DV. I met him for the first time and 2 minutes into my filling him in on the situation he shakes head, says "you need to file," and then continues "let me guess, she's working on a domestic violence angle against you?"

He's right, she's absolutely been playing up to her friends that she doesn't "feel safe" around me. She's kept a log of my drinking habits, so I've gone on the wagon for a while. Better for my health anyway, but I've been warned in no uncertain terms that if the police in my city show up to a DV call, they take somebody in 100% of the time. If I've been drinking, I'm done. If I'm a man, 90% of the time I'll be taken in. My wife is amazingly good at staying cool and being a bitch at the same time and I'm a natural hothead, and lately alcohol has just made me pissed off, so it's better to stay away from it, because as the lawyer said, once I'm in an orange jumpsuit, I'm fucked.

Part of the point of this thread is so that other guys can see that all the stuff that Rollo talks about, all of the stuff you guys preach, it's not some made up shit. This plays out in real life. I've spent a third of my life with this chick before I finally had to admit to myself that she's no different from any other chick.

[RockHard]

Little update. The soon to be ex is being cooperative, though she's still lying to me about some of her financial shenanigans. Oh well, come disclosure time, it'll come out.

Talked on the phone this weekend to a friend of a friend who made a couple points:
* Divorce is expensive. The reason divorce is expensive is that it's worth it
* It's worth having my lawyer come up with a "fair settlement" and making that offer early, especially since she claims she hasn't put her attorney on retainer. Just put an offer out there and get negotiations rolling. Since this is a community property & no fault state, the only reason to fight over stuff is if you want to spend money. With lawyers running $300/hr and up, whatever you're fighting over better be worth it.
* I *could* stay in the house, but shouldn't feel obligated to. He said he moved out early on and it didn't affect anything.

Talking to the future ex, it seems like she thinks she's somehow going to keep the house. Thinks it'd be easier on the kids ("for the kids" is her justification for everything). I've been trying to tell her that there's no way in hell a bank will give her a loan for this much house, but she's never listened to me and isn't about to start now. She's probably going to have to have a mortgage broker break the bad news. I think it hasn't quite sunk in yet that there is no "we" anymore, and if she does keep the house, my name won't be on the note. I went to an open house this weekend to check out a potential place. It's early to be looking, but I've got all kinds of ideas about directions I could go with housing, so if I start researching now, in a couple months when there's clarity in the finances I should be ready to make my move.

Several guys have PM'd me with words of encouragement, I really appreciate the support. Honestly, I'm mentally in a good place. I'm over the whole situation and ready to get on with my life.

Finally, went out to a coffee shop to work this morning. The first venue had no talent that inspired me so I tried another place... holy shit. I'd written this place off the last couple times I'd been in, but there were at least a half dozen chicks that caught my eye in there today. Sat next to one, a Colorado 6 (meaning she's a 5 in LA/Miami), not awesome but thin and cute enough, and probably about 25 years old - I'm 47. Eventually opened her saying something like "it looks like your brain is full". My problem was my ramble isn't good and there were a few dead spots in conversation. But she started asking me questions about myself, so I got her to the point that she was showing some interest. Finally she needed to get back to studying (more like, I wasn't keeping the convo interesting). I knew it was a hail mary, but told her I wanted to get a drink with her. She made a long pause and then said she was really busy with school. I think I was really close to closing that one, except my rambling is rusty and I didn't do enough to get her interest. But it's encouraging, I haven't done a cold approach in forever and it felt awesome to break through the mental barrier, especially where before I knew it wasn't going anywhere since I wasn't in a position to pursue anything. Also, she was wearing headphones and I broke through that obstacle easily - I held off opening her at first because of that, but in the end it means nothing. This isn't rocket science.

I want to start getting into 10 approaches a week, only got 1 in today so I need to make up for it later this week.

[RockHard]

Wife is taking the kids away with friends this weekend, so I have a weekend to myself. I've got a state-mandated parenting class Saturday morning, otherwise I have the weekend to myself.

Planning on getting in some good mountain biking, going out and starting on a wardrobe upgrade, and getting out on the town and having some fun.

In other news, I was doing laundry last night and found a pair of crotchless panties in the washing machine. If she's going out and getting laid, then I'm going all in, don't even care if the final divorce decree is still months off.

The one thing I haven't been doing is approaching enough. Thinking about it, I'm actually provided with enough opportunities most days, I'm just not taking the opportunities. Gotta get on that.

[Gringuito]

RockHard, sorry to hear that you're going through this. Many of us have been where you're at now. A few suggestions:

- Do not leave the house. It shows that you're not interested in raising your children and that you trust your STBXW with caring solely for your children. Unless you're forced by a court order, do not leave.

- If you decide to get laid, have at it. But be very discrete and do not start any relationship. Nothing is more sure to ruin your chances of a quick divorce than her finding out that you're sleeping around. You're paying for both your lawyers and hers. Don't run up legal bills by making her mad.

- Don't worry if you're ex-wife is sleeping around, this actually helps you. If she falls in love with her next victim that creates a great leverage to getting better terms during the divorce. She'll want to finish the divorce quickly to get with Mr Wonderful. Also, document your time with your kids, this will help in how much time you get to spend with them later. Encourage her to have her girls nights out. You just want her to be happy (lol).

- Don't expect fairness, you only get justice. As my lawyer said "Look down, if you have something dangling there then everything is your fault".

- Get a personal recorder and have it on your person at all times. This is to defend against the false DV accusation that may come. Don't worry if it's not legal in your state, you won't use it in court. You just play it for the police that show up. They don't care about how the recording was made, it just helps them leave with just giving you a warning.

- Do not get upset in front of her, do not show anger or raise your voice. Just take a walk to cool off. Only talk to her about the kids and only when necessary. She isn't the woman you married. She is your ex-business partner suing you in court.

I'm sure there's quite a bit more but good luck getting through this.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-10-2015 09:47 AM)RockHard Wrote:  

Wife is taking the kids away with friends this weekend, so I have a weekend to myself. I've got a state-mandated parenting class Saturday morning, otherwise I have the weekend to myself.

Planning on getting in some good mountain biking, going out and starting on a wardrobe upgrade, and getting out on the town and having some fun.

In other news, I was doing laundry last night and found a pair of crotchless panties in the washing machine. If she's going out and getting laid, then I'm going all in, don't even care if the final divorce decree is still months off.

The one thing I haven't been doing is approaching enough. Thinking about it, I'm actually provided with enough opportunities most days, I'm just not taking the opportunities. Gotta get on that.

Dude, for sure she is getting laid...crotchless panties or not. Remember, a chick needs another man to overwrite her previous one and treat him callously. If she didn't have another guy or 10 she would be more wishy washy with you and unsure about striking out on her own.

Plan for the worst scenario and expect a better outcome. Its likely she's 'taking' the kids somewhere else aka leaving them with someone else and going to get her fuck on. Remember, her friends likely know the whole story from her side and are complicit as well as being under the impression you are a drunk wife beater via her words.

You sir, if you have a weekend to yourself, no kids, AND access to that damn matrimonial home you should be acting like a man on fire and not pedaling around on a mountain bike enjoying life. Others may disagree, but this is not the time to work on your game. You have an enemy at the gates, in your own home that you yourself said is not beyond putting you in jail for trumped up DV charges and you are getting a break in the cloak and dagger siege war for 2 FULL DAYS.

NOW is the time to change the locks to key coded doors and give her a temp password that you can delete at any time. NOW is the time to rifle through everything in the house, hide and scan everything of value NOW is the time to buy a safe, put all of your important shit in it and bolt it to the floor of your house or in a safe deposit box. NOW is the time to bug your own house with hidden cameras and/or mics. NOW is the time to install keyloggers on any shared computers you might have.

You have a weekend with her out of town to to set yourself up to WIN, don't fucking waste it.

ACT NOW man, ACT FUCKING NOW!

from someone who has been divorced and fucked it up, you want to be playing DEFENSE if you have to go to court, work with lawyers etc. You do not want to be storming the beach and playing offense. Think about how many men and resources the allies had to throw against the beaches in D-Day vs. some casual krauts dug into concrete bunkers. That is divorce and the money and momentum you need to change a defacto situation. You want to be the germans, you want to be holding the fortified position and make her work to establish a beachead. This is why you don't move out.

Edit: Do not be swayed by 'whats best for the kids' you are getting divorced so you kids are already casualties of war from the minute you filed the papers. Accept that and do your best to help them out after the initial shock and awe campaign is over, not during.

[Gringuito]

(06-10-2015 10:32 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

NOW is the time to change the locks to key coded doors and give her a temp password that you can delete at any time. NOW is the time to rifle through everything in the house, hide and scan everything of value NOW is the time to buy a safe, put all of your important shit in it and bolt it to the floor of your house or in a safe deposit box. NOW is the time to bug your own house with hidden cameras and/or mics. NOW is the time to install keyloggers on any shared computers you might have.

I agree that taking an inventory, pictures of everything of value in the house is a good idea. Also, moving/coping all of you important papers (tax returns, bills, insurance, passport, etc) and putting them in a safe location is a great idea.

Adding in-home video cameras at this point during a divorce may be looked on poorly but could easily be justified as a home security measure. Just remember to keep your cool while on tape, it cuts both ways.

Changing locks on the doors or modifying access to her computer is not a good idea and the judge will look very poorly on that type of harassment. Also, installing spyware or keyloggers can get you in quite a bit of legal trouble depending on the state you reside.

http://news.cnet.com/Court-Wife-broke-la...77979.html

[CleanSlate]

RockHard,

Sorry to hear you're going through this. The advice above is good, and just funnel ALL your communications through your lawyer. Don't talk about any specifics with your soon to be ex wife. Be vague, and be unemotional.

Approach your divorce as if it is all business. As hard as it is, especially with kids involved, keep emotions out of any decision you make. Be the BEST father you can be.

Document Everything.

If you are staying in the house, I like the idea of keeping a tape recorder on you at all times. If you are considering bugging the house and installing video cameras, talk to your lawyer about this.

Be careful what you post online, too. Best thing to do is talk to your lawyer about anything and everything.

You will probably end up selling the house. Do what you can to force the home sale because you don't want your name on that mortgage in a house you won't be living in anymore.

[RockHard]

(06-10-2015 11:05 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

(06-10-2015 10:32 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

NOW is the time to change the locks to key coded doors and give her a temp password that you can delete at any time. NOW is the time to rifle through everything in the house, hide and scan everything of value NOW is the time to buy a safe, put all of your important shit in it and bolt it to the floor of your house or in a safe deposit box. NOW is the time to bug your own house with hidden cameras and/or mics. NOW is the time to install keyloggers on any shared computers you might have.

I agree that taking an inventory, pictures of everything of value in the house is a good idea. Also, moving/coping all of you important papers (tax returns, bills, insurance, passport, etc) and putting them in a safe location is a great idea.

Adding in-home video cameras at this point during a divorce may be looked on poorly but could easily be justified as a home security measure. Just remember to keep your cool while on tape, it cuts both ways.

Changing locks on the doors or modifying access to her computer is not a good idea and the judge will look very poorly on that type of harassment. Also, installing spyware or keyloggers can get you in quite a bit of legal trouble depending on the state you reside.

http://news.cnet.com/Court-Wife-broke-la...77979.html

Yeah, that last bit especially. I know in this state that kind of thing is a felony, because my attorney told me this when I suggested doing it. In any case, it really doesn't matter, this is a no-fault, community property state, so the court is going to try to do a 50/50 split unless they have a reason not to. 50/50 is fine with me so basically my attorney told me to do the checklist the court provided and wait for the status conference. The court will probably direct us into mediation and if she's serious about keeping it amicable, it should be pretty straightforward. Also - infidelity counts for nothing in court. They just don't want to hear about it.

I do have to pull together the financial disclosure documents and I want to make serious progress on that this weekend. I have everything printed up but now I have to get it all sorted and counted. The hard part is the household budget, I have to state what our budget is, and provide some historical context. I've been using Mint for a while and it's pretty good at guessing categories, so I'm hoping I can clean up the data and get a report out of Mint to help me.

Part of what I have to do is come up with a value for the household too - basically the furniture, though there's some stuff like china & silver that's worth something. More grunt work.

Gringuito - to your point about keeping my head, that's definitely what I'm trying to do. If there's one thing I've learned from this marriage, it's that the person who loses their shit usually loses the fight. I'm on the wagon right now too, my mood is just too toxic when I start drinking and the best I can hope for is to NOT do something stupid.

Dr. Howard - the funny thing is that she has tiers of friends. The really old group from college who knew her as this churchgoing mostly good girl who didn't sleep around, I think all they really know is that we're getting divorced because I'm a shit, but I'm pretty sure they don't know about the affair, and my guess is that she'd have a hard time admitting what she's really like to these chicks who see her as someone else. The 2nd group, girlfriends she had when we were dating, they were a bit more of a party crowd and even if she wasn't sleeping around back then, they know her as a bit wilder. So they definitely knew about her plan and were egging her on, coaching her on how to screw me over, but I don't think they know about the affair because I think she would still have a hard time admitting it to them. The 3rd group is a few women she's met in the last couple years, and they definitely know about everything, actually have met & hung out with the other guy, and are deep into the shit.

The point is, this weekend is with the 2nd group (and their kids) and I don't think know about the other guy, so I think it's going to be more of a weekend where the women get drunk after the kids are all in bed and sit around and talk trash about their husbands. So I'm sure there'll be some plotting but at this point we're under injunction so if she does anything too crazy financially, she'll have to answer to the court. Still, I think your idea of searching around a bit is worth doing.

Also - yes, if there wasn't another guy, she'd be the first 40-something mother in history to bail on a stable relationship without a safe landing planned. I understand that. Still not what I was expecting to find in the laundry. I would like to get laid, but discretion is key and if she finds out, that'll probably fuck up a chance at an amicable settlement, so I will be careful.

[Dr. Howard]

(06-10-2015 11:05 AM)Gringuito Wrote:  

(06-10-2015 10:32 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  

NOW is the time to change the locks to key coded doors and give her a temp password that you can delete at any time. NOW is the time to rifle through everything in the house, hide and scan everything of value NOW is the time to buy a safe, put all of your important shit in it and bolt it to the floor of your house or in a safe deposit box. NOW is the time to bug your own house with hidden cameras and/or mics. NOW is the time to install keyloggers on any shared computers you might have.

I agree that taking an inventory, pictures of everything of value in the house is a good idea. Also, moving/coping all of you important papers (tax returns, bills, insurance, passport, etc) and putting them in a safe location is a great idea.

Adding in-home video cameras at this point during a divorce may be looked on poorly but could easily be justified as a home security measure. Just remember to keep your cool while on tape, it cuts both ways.

Changing locks on the doors or modifying access to her computer is not a good idea and the judge will look very poorly on that type of harassment. Also, installing spyware or keyloggers can get you in quite a bit of legal trouble depending on the state you reside.

http://news.cnet.com/Court-Wife-broke-la...77979.html

Excellent advice on the cameras. The Keylogger case referenced was the wife's screwup because she tried to introduce the chat logs in court...her lawyer should have advised against that...if she didn't introduce it in court would it even have come to light that the computer was bugged?

Modifying the locks...this is where my advice becomes controversial I think and follows with the "you want to be the one playing defense" stance. Through my own divorce and that of others I always heard "oh, you don't want to do that, it may look bad on you in court" so husbands failed to do anything rash. In the meantime wifes changed locks, set things on fire, moved kids in with boyfriends in the middle of the night and those situations were NEVER remedied. In court it was "oh, well that was illegal, or that was in poor taste mrs x" or the divorces never even made it to court and were settled with no address or remedy to the fuckery.

Once that shit happens, the other person has to play offense to get it fixed and the tools to 'fix it' suck, are expensive and slow.

So yes, you can play 'by the rules' or 'in the gray zone' with some risk. However, from my experience he who plays by the rules still loses but just spends more money and more time to figure that out.

[Rage_on]

Rock hard, welcome to the real world!

Your best life is ahead of you and in 1-2 years from now you will consistently be smashing the best pussy of your life. BUT I agree with the spirit of Dr Howard. You've got too much shit to deal with to work on game. It isn't important and you're more vulnerable than you think. Have some humility. I was divorced 18 months ago, I wanted it and it was the best and most difficult decision I've made. But I was in a hurry to game and I measured my worth by it. Big mistake.
There is a real possibility that you will contemplate suicide in the next few months. I'm not trying to be a dick. Right now you're excited, but you've got some shit to swim through and women aren't going to help you. I made every mistake you could make post divorce I think. But Im killing it now. And the girls I get, I LOVE fucking, but there are more urgent things to take care of. Your emotional well being is paramount. Don't drink too much. VIOLENTLY protect your assets. Divorce is VERY VERY expensive. I know you're thrilled to get out of your shitty marriage, but there're tough times ahead.
Soon enough you will be a hardened machine, impervious to the evils of woman, but for now, be patient. Good luck.