[RexImperator]

I have read that when your body is stressed, as it would be with heavy training and a caloric deficit, that reproduction is becomes de-prioritized. Wondering if anyone else has experienced this? Note: by "heavy", I mean regular lifting above 85% of your 1RM.

[StrikeBack]

That's one of the signs of overtraining.

Depends on a lot of things:

- lifting volume per session
- lifting frequency
- your work capacity
- your recovery speed
- how aggressive you're cutting

My best cutting period was when on average I was only trying to lose 0.250g average (around half a lb) a week (worked out to be about 0.5kg initially and down to nothing towards the end), but over a very long time. I lifted heavy and frequently (daily) but did very low reps and volume most of the time. I also didn't do any crazy conditioning or high rep work. During that time, my libido was normal.

There's a guy at my club who tried to copy my training and cutting but wanted to do it X times faster, and ended up with his libido going through the floor. So yes it can happen if you get stupid.

Right now I'm also "cutting" by slowly going on a caloric surplus while keeping my physical activities at a higher level than my calories intake. My libido is on the high side (compared to my normal self).

[Chick Magnet]

As a natty, whenever you go into a caloric deficit, your t-levels will fall. You can minimize that by dropping weight really slowly like strikeback suggests.

I think it's best just to do a recomp. Keep calories at maintenance, bust ass in the gym and walk a lot. It's slow, but you don't have to worry about wrecking your libido. I've done that...and it takes a while to bounce back.

[VolandoVengoVolandoVoy]

I am lifting heavy right now (3 day split twice a week, Sunday rest day), cutting while gaining strength (more of a recomp, I eat a lot but really really clean and high protein), and my libido is through the fucking roof. I could do no hand pushups right now for fucks sake.

Of course that might be related to the tren/test/mast stack...

[civpro]

Yes, it's true. I'm experiencing it now.

[Bilboswaggins]

http://www.leangains.com/2009/08/questions-answers.html

From the link:

Q: "My sex drive just winds down to nearly nothing when I'm running an intense caloric deficit. Is there some documented/anecdotal correlation on this, or is it random according to the individual?"

A: It's not random, it's a fact that weight loss/calorie restriction, even moderate in nature, causes a delayed response to gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH). This neurohormone is secreted in a pulsatile manner from the hypothalamus, and upon binding to receptors in the pituitary gland, it activates synthesis of reproductive hormones, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone(FSH). This axis is partially under control by "master" hormones involved in sensing the general energy status of the body; leptin and insulin, for example.

An energy deficit lowers leptin, which in turn impacts the reproductive axis negatively. This makes complete evolutionary sense, when you consider that reproduction is such an energy costly process. Conversely, high body fat percentage also affects the reproductive axis negatively, through other mechanisms -insulin resistance being one major cause discussed in this context.

Looking at studies on this topic, the effect is proportional to the energy deficit. In one paper, they noted that the delayed response in GnRH pulsatility was "intermediate in extent" when comparing moderate weight loss (-1% body weight/week or some such) to that of anorectics or VLCD (400-800 kcal/day).

My personal experience is that a moderate deficit (i.e net deficit/week is moderate, say -3500 kcal) has no noticeable impact, while a high deficit (i.e -7000 kcal/week) has a negative impact. The latter is augmented on very low carb or straight ketogenic diets. Cyclical diets are superior in this regard.

[Olav]

Is it possible for Libido to bounce back after a cut? And how long does it usually take if so?

[Kieran]

When I got really lean for something (my guess would be somewhere around 6%) it took a while of good eating for it to bounce back properly (several months). I also had very low haemoglobin, platelet, and blood count from it. Took 6 months plus for that to bounce back, but now within normal levels again. If you haven't been on a deficit for too long then it shouldn't be too bad, but if you've been on for a while, and gotten your body fat really low, then it might take a while like it did with me. I guess we're just not meant to have body fat that low. 8-9% and I'm perfectly fine, but when I start dipping down much below that, all the negatives start kicking in.

[RexImperator]

I'm actually still reasonably fat (20% I'd guess) and trying to lose only 1 lb per week. So not a huge deficit.

[Kieran]

I would think you should be fine then. Have you noticed any drop?

[Vaun]

I'm "cutting" right now and have lost about 10lbs in a month. My diet is a mix of Zone dieting, and Slow Carb. Plus as I get older I have realized I am not a boy anymore and cant eat like one. Recently Sly Stallone talked about how he only eats one meal a day. Being 40+ thats perfectly reasonable, and to slightly adjust that by your training volume. Thats a combination of IF and responsible eating with a structured plan like Zone or Slow Carb. Mentally I have had to accept I am not the kid anymore that would raid any of your refrigerators. Have about 10 more to go to get to fighting weight. My libido has definitely shrunk. My metabolism is screwed up from eating heavy to gain weight. I did this irresponsibly as a guy in his 30's. I did a gallon of milk a day 5 years ago. It added(professionally measured) 12lbs of muscle in 8 weeks. My total weight gain was almost 40 lbs. I got ridiculously fat. Fatter than I have ever been. For the last 5 years I have yo-yo'd between 185lbs - 205lbs. I havent lost the lean muscle mass, but the fat seems to come much easier. I am approaching 40 and if I stand down wind from a donut shop I will put on 5lbs. Asked Mike CF and he recommended TRT therapy. I am getting into that now. I train 3-5 days a week with a lifting program designed by Dan John. I also walk anywhere between 10K - 20K steps everyday.

Overall yes, cutting makes me lose sex drive, get irritable, lethargic and short tempered. But when you are reducing your caloric intake severly, you can only expect that.

[RexImperator]

(05-29-2015 07:11 AM)Kieran Wrote:  

I would think you should be fine then. Have you noticed any drop?

Yeah, I've apparently entered some kind of phase where I overtrain really easily, even with low to moderate volume. I'm dropping my lower body lifts for a while to let a nagging injury heal and will see what happens. Too bad as I was making some progress there. I need to lose weight/fat so I will keep at the diet.

[Matt3B]

Shit, so glad that I found this thread as my sex drive has been fucked recently - and that's not a good thing when you've got a girlfriend.

I haven't been cutting long, only about 5-6 weeks or so but I've been having some problems getting it up over the past week or so.

I'm going days without carbs, and high amounts of protein in the form of chicken and shakes.

What do some of you more educated guys recommend? My body fat has reduced from about 15% to about 11% in the time I've been cutting.

Are there any supplements that I should take (such as zinc) to help improve things?

[Prof. Ligate]

I have some anecdotal evidence from the last few weeks:

- Been cutting for 4 weeks, libido down the toilet
- Go back to maintenance for last 2 weeks, but push up fat intake to 150g per day
- Been smashing down the eggs, bacon, nuts and grass-fed steak
- I am so horny atm I think I've been living with low T my whole life

No expert but the proof is in the pudding (literally the vanilla pudding that has swollen up my balls). If you haven't tried a high-fat diet I highly recommend it

[Noir]

(06-04-2015 03:12 AM)MattC Wrote:  

Shit, so glad that I found this thread as my sex drive has been fucked recently - and that's not a good thing when you've got a girlfriend.

I haven't been cutting long, only about 5-6 weeks or so but I've been having some problems getting it up over the past week or so.

I'm going days without carbs, and high amounts of protein in the form of chicken and shakes.

What do some of you more educated guys recommend? My body fat has reduced from about 15% to about 11% in the time I've been cutting.

Are there any supplements that I should take (such as zinc) to help improve things?

I have sex 2-3 times a day, for the past 6 month (longest without was 3 days) and I am fucking horny all day every day. I am 24 and that is a big factor.

Zinc (30mg) and Vitamin D (1250mg) help with my testosterone; I also take L-Carnitine and Flaxseed oil (need to double check amounts).

BCAA + Vitamin C (250mg) post-workout with a protein shake severely reduces DOMS for what it is worth.

I also have some Creatine unopened in the cupboard, but saving it for when my gains seem to plateau.

Are you getting enough rest and nutrients?

This is just my opinion and I am by no means an expert; Hades/StrikeBack/kosko/VVVV/LINUX would be better equipped to answer this (I haven't seen Mike on the forums in a while).

[Matt3B]

Cheers for the replies.

I've bought some zinc and some L-citrulline. I'm also going to make sure I eat more fats as on this cut, I'm simply not getting enough. What are some good fats I should be eating?

I'm not getting enough rest, no. I've got mouth ulcers at the moment from being way too tired and overworked. They linger for weeks when normally they're gone within a week. I've read that zinc speeds up the process so I may have a deficiency. Time will tell.

I've got 15mg tablets, but am going to take 30mg.

[philosophical_recovery]

ZMA is great for sleep, zinc, etc. I sometimes add Zinc with a meal on top of the daily ZMA.

However, if you start noticing a headache that feels different, more like a cool sensation than a flat out pain, it may be too much zinc. I got those occasionally until my body got used to higher zinc. Now, it's my "you're supplementing too much zinc" warning.

And I'm seconding any recommendations for Vitamin D. Been using that consistently for so long I'm afraid to stop using it, because it's the most obvious improvement in my life of any supplement that I've taken.

[StrikeBack]

If you're on lower calories, you need to up the quality of your foods to make sure you're getting more micronutrients. Make every calorie count. Eat good fats, lean protein, more fruits etc. Some of the symptoms you guys describe can come from not getting enough important micro nutrients.

I still recommend cutting slowly to give your body time to adapt and your mind to get used to the new eating habits. Do you want to cut rapidly to take some Instagram photos by the end of it only to rebound to the same old weight (happens to most people) or do you actually want to keep the new leaner body?

If you're on low carbs, you need to go high fats. Going low carbs AND low fats will fuck you up. Btw you don't need to go low carbs to lose fats. I was on low carbs and got leaner. Now I'm on 300g of carbs a day (at 160lb bodyweight) and I'm still getting leaner (about 12% atm). I prefer higher carbs lifestyle as I like fruits and ice cream more than fats

[CodyB]

(06-04-2015 09:04 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  

If you're on lower calories, you need to up the quality of your foods to make sure you're getting more micronutrients. Make every calorie count. Eat good fats, lean protein, more fruits etc. Some of the symptoms you guys describe can come from not getting enough important micro nutrients.

I still recommend cutting slowly to give your body time to adapt and your mind to get used to the new eating habits. Do you want to cut rapidly to take some Instagram photos by the end of it only to rebound to the same old weight (happens to most people) or do you actually want to keep the new leaner body?

If you're on low carbs, you need to go high fats. Going low carbs AND low fats will fuck you up. Btw you don't need to go low carbs to lose fats. I was on low carbs and got leaner. Now I'm on 300g of carbs a day (at 160lb bodyweight) and I'm still getting leaner (about 12% atm). I prefer higher carbs lifestyle as I like fruits and ice cream more than fats

What are some examples of those micro nutrients?

My diet is shit.

[CodyB]

Being Overweight and Obese also leads to lower T and, I guess as a consequence, lower Libido as well.

If you are overweight like I am, perhaps with a lower level of T and Libido, and I lose 18kg in 3-4 months, is the low T/Libido from my weight going to compound with the low T/Libido from the Caloric deficit?

I've gone into detail about my current diet here where I am purposefully fasting around times where I won't be recovering from my workouts and I will have up to 36 hours to benefit from strong caloric input before I fast again. Will this help mitigate any of these effects?

Thanks.

[Ingocnito]

Gents, I can't answer for the labido part, I'm almost 41 and haven't cut in a while, but the gym manager at my primary gym has undergone some pretty amazing transformation, and done it coming out of injuries. He's 28 I think.

I'm 6'4" 230-235ish (ectomorph skeletal frame), he's 6'2.5" or so, and was 225 (closer to mesomorhp skeletal frame), but now 202-205 and notably more shredded. In fact coming off an abdominal tear and a shoulder problem, he got down to 195 until the last 3 weeks.

Just talked with him tonight before closing the gym. He said he's carb cycling, 1 day average carbs like normal, especially on leg day and/or right after leg work out. A small bowl of oat meal each morning, but low carbs for 2-3 days straight then medium to higher carbs as I specified on one day. He's lost NONE of his strength from 225, but looks like he weighs about 230 at 205. All muscle, almost all of his cut was fat.

I asked how the hell he did it without starving himself. He said:"Shit loads of vegetables, 2x the amount of clean proteins.. chicken mainly, and very high quality whey protein isolate, 3 shakes a day in between 3-5 food meals. The dude's a condensed beast and managed the fat cut in only a few months. What surprised me is he didn't drop calories, just simply made all of them very clean and carb cycled.

We didn't talk about labido but my guess is he's still got so many calories coming in , if there was a drop in labido it was minimal. He said instead of 6-8oz of chicken per meal, he upped it to 10-12+, and enough vegetables you'd think "would you like some chicken with all those vegetables." fwiw.

[StrikeBack]

(06-09-2015 02:06 PM)CodyB Wrote:  

What are some examples of those micro nutrients?

My diet is shit.

They're called minerals and vitamins.

Example:

If you're eating X g of carbs, instead of getting it from processed sugar from the candy section at the supermarket, get it from fruits and vegs as they're richer in vitamins.

If you're eating Y g of fats, fresh fish / salmon (Omega3) is better than KFC.

Go for quality.

[Wreckingball]

I don't know what's happened to me, but in the last year I lost the ability to "nut and reload" almost instantly, as well as nutting 5 times in a night and shooting 7 ropes. After first nut, (3 ropes) I can barely get it up.

It may be due to bad diet plan with the training. I have been unable to manage a decent carb cycle with heavy training days and for about 4 months I have not been able to train regularly.

I hope this thread helps me out.

[bacan]

I have noticed the phenomenon of low sex drive when I'm eating healthy/cutting and also the reverse.. Insane sex drive when I'm eating a ton of fatty junk food..

Wish I had a better libido.. I barely ever have more than one orgasm per night any more.