[Libertas]

MGTOW is a lot like feminism in that regard. It denies the true nature of the sexes. To deny that men receive tremendous benefits from the company of good women and that we somehow shouldn't care for it is an oblivious denial of the true nature of men.

Too bad I just thought of that now and couldn't put it in the video, which is mainly an outcropping of my post above.

Hopefully I did a decent job in defending our positions.

[Teedub]

(05-22-2015 04:06 PM)Libertas Wrote:  

MGTOW is a lot like feminism in that regard. It denies the true nature of the sexes. To deny that men receive tremendous benefits from the company of good women and that we somehow shouldn't care for it is an oblivious denial of the true nature of men.

We badly need a neo-feminine movement.

[262]

(05-22-2015 04:07 PM)Teedub Wrote:  

We badly need a neo-feminine movement.

While "Return of Queens" and the follow-up "Kings and Queens" failed ( http://www.rooshvforum.network/thread-43253.html ), time will tell if sites like JudgyBitch ( http://judgybitch.com/ ) get traction with women.

[Basil Ransom]

Lol if your hopes for a neo-feminine movement are pinned on a woman who picks out a name like Judgy Bitch for herself, you'll be "hoping" for a looooong time...

The feminine women will simply be the women that masculine men choose for themselves. The story of my namesake, The Bostonians, is an excellent literary example of this phenomenon.

[Wutang]

The weakness of MGTOW is that while it does do a good job of telling you what to avoid and to not let yourself be sucked into today's cultural programming, it has very little to offer that is positive. So you managed to avoid getting roped in by a gold digger and you aren't buying into blue pill narrative which is all very good and well. But what next?

Every now and then you see a comment about how these forums are too angry and bitter but I can tell you it's nothing compared to what would see at a typical MGTOW forum. That's what happen when you offer nothing but negative advice ,the meaning of negative her not meaning "bad" but as in the advice is merely a negation, telling you what not to do without giving you something positive in place of it. Tell all these guys constantly about how horrible society is for them all the time and it shouldn't be a surprise if these guys end up like feminists, thinking the world at large is out to get them. You need to also offer them an escape route and hope.

[Simeon_Strangelight]

While Sandman has some good Red Pill insights he is a MGTOW who completely denies Game and whose goals are to make greater amounts of money and later on hire surrogates, buy eggs and get his own IV-child. Essentially he plans to become a single father having full ownership of a child completely avoiding female involvement.

But I wonder a bit about the huge amount of money he wants to accumulate if that is not designed to attract easy sex or P4P as well.

In any case - those MGTOWs who actually have success with women and can have easy relationships with them, but still go their own way are few and far in between. Most are just helpless at it - well how could they want to master it if they deny Game and then are left with "women are bad right now" as their only mantra.

[Glaucon]

Sandman has good insights, but it is very depressing to watch his videos on the long run. I unsubscribed a long time ago, I realized it is not helping me in any way.

[CleanSlate]

Whenever I read the MGTOW forums, it seems like it's a whole bunch of these:

[Sooth]

I liken MGTOW to running away as a child, hiding from parents and enjoying the fact that they are worrying or missing you.

Only no one cares that MGTOW are GTOW.

I initially found it attractive but having "matured" it seems irresponsible.

Surly, if there is a chance of turning the tide on western civilization it won't come about by MGTOW nor women with blogs.

[Samseau]

MGTOW: what a huge movement! 8k views on this Sandman vid. Gonna take us down guys!

Also, serious hypocrisy: MGTOW claims to be above women, yet this Sandman's vid is nothing but pictures of beautiful women with men.

[Hyperion]

You can't deny that MGTOW does serve a purpose in that it reduces the number of men that women get to choose from. I see its value in reforming the dating market back to men.

[Roosh]

(05-23-2015 12:35 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

MGTOW: what a huge movement! 8k views on this Sandman vid. Gonna take us down guys!

From observing them, Youtube seems to be their main platform in addition to their forums (I don't see them much on Reddit, Facebook, or Twitter). There are many individuals with a couple thousand followers, but few over 10k. They view and comment on each other's video podcasts. They also seem tech oriented in that they know how to do video production and web design, but their editing skills are poor (videos go too long). A previous generation ago they would be Star Trek fans, but today, with all available technology, they have formed a relatively tight knit community to shame any man who tries to get laid. More than TRP, they have more "obsessive" attachments to their label and quickly defend it.

There are always men like this in any society, so they will exist in the future as they do now, but I'm not sure if under the MGTOW brand.

[Eskhander]

(05-23-2015 12:35 AM)Samseau Wrote:  

MGTOW: what a huge movement! 8k views on this Sandman vid. Gonna take us down guys!

Also, serious hypocrisy: MGTOW claims to be above women, yet this Sandman's vid is nothing but pictures of beautiful women with men.

It's small but loyal

[lowhead360]

delete

[Lumbre]

MGTOW was one of the first websites I began to read when I first got into the Manosphere a few months ago. I have watched some of Sandman's and Bar Bar's videos and I feel that they share a lot of deep insight on the nature of women and the current condition of Western society. They are insightful in their exposition of feminism and the damage it is doing to our generation, and they espouse a go-your-own-way libertarian worldview which jives well with me, but I see a big problem with their philosophy and that problem is that it all comes to a dead end.

They don't offer any viable solution!

It is as though their objective were solely to rebuke and punish women rather than offer a strategy on how to make male-female dealings more positive and workable.

Many of them reject game and justify its rejection by asserting that learning how to give women what they want in a man only feeds the gynocentric matrix! Their logic is like feminism inverted!

Game isn't about giving in to the gynocentric matrix. It isn't a ritual to pander to the desires of women. It can be seen as a self-serving means for getting access to pussy, for one's own pleasure, or as a reasonable technique for leveling out the playing field and improving our male-female interactions for the mutual benefit of both parties, a practical way of undoing the damage that modern feminism has caused for both sexes.

Original Manosphere on the other hand gives real pragmatic solutions.

[Samseau]

^ Yes I have never understood MGTOW's claim that game panders to women when in fact game is manipulating women's emotions for your own benefit as a man. Sex without marriage and typically around 3-10 hours (depending on the woman) of investment. Compared to what men in the past had to do for sex (marriage for life!!!) game is a bargain.

[Guitarman]

I could only watch a few seconds of that video, the monotonous computer generated voice was so awful it was uncomfortable just to hear.

And what is this "Migtau" nonsense. Are these guys that can't get pussy?? Why do they feel the need to get together?? Do they bum one another like horny dogs???

[Suits]

(07-06-2015 04:26 AM)Guitarman Wrote:  

I could only watch a few seconds of that video, the monotonous computer generated voice was so awful it was uncomfortable just to hear.

And what is this "Migtau" nonsense. Are these guys that can't get pussy?? Why do they feel the need to get together?? Do they bum one another like horny dogs???

My guess is that they not only have always struggled in developing meaningful relationships with women, but also finding companionship and friendship in general.

Generally, it's a sure sign of dissatisfaction when simply doing what you wish to do is not enough and you also need to talk about it all the time.

I'm guessing that MGTOW is ultimately a lonely existence.

[Mess O.]

This whole MGTOW business strikes me as a % of men who are trying to rationalize the closeting away of their natural and inherent desires. Coupled with that, I could take a wild guess that these dudes are either too scared to embrace Game, or indeed took it for a few swings, but fell to the canvas within the 1st round.

[It_is_my_time]

(07-28-2015 02:33 AM)Mess O. Wrote:  

This whole MGTOW business strikes me as a % of men who are trying to rationalize the closeting away of their natural and inherent desires. Coupled with that, I could take a wild guess that these dudes are either too scared to embrace Game, or indeed took it for a few swings, but fell to the canvas within the 1st round.

I think it is a mix of many things. For many men it is definitely what you are saying. I consider myself MGTOW, but I don't fit into that description and I know there are other MGTOW like me.

I believe in game, hell, I use game to get results I want from both men and women. It has given me the ability to get treated as I desire and get help from other men and women and treated with respect. Just walking with strong posture and speaking like a man and standing by your principles alone will make your life far better.

But I currently have little use for women in my life. I work a lot, I have other goals. As I get older my desire to chase women diminishes. All at the same time women in the USA continue to get more obese, more rude, more arrogant and amazingly it seems more dumb thanks to the TV. Add that with the kangaroo divorce courts and the false rape epidemic, I just have lost most interest in women.

I hope to travel overseas one day to find women who are not obese and brain washed by reality TV. But I realize that it may never happen and instead I focus on making my life the best I can and learn to not be dependent on anyone for my happiness, women included. I believe as a man you will only truly be happy when you learn to not have to depend on anyone else.

[Mess O.]

You are truly a man of refinement and eloquence.

[ManVsMachine]

You aren't a "real" MGTOW if you have to tell everyone that you are MGTOW.

You aren't a "real" MGTOW if you even consider it a "movement" in anything other than the physical sense of the word.


MGTOW is an action, it's a state of being. Its closer to "neomasculinity" than many of you would think.


The term has been utterly perverted. Or rather, the word "MGTOW" has been applied by a group of men who idealized the lifestyle but were never, and will never be one. Really, the only person I've ever heard from online who is even close to this term was Pook. You won't find a single one on the red pill reddit. Not a single one.


Should you come across a "real" one, you won't even recognize until you reflect on it later. Many of these rare men can "game" a woman like a fish breathes water. I use quotes around "game" because they rarely will have acknowledged it as a thing - you may find one easiest in the brooding, dark musician who never seems to lock down a steady girlfriend but continues to have a revolving door of women in his life. They're the type of guy who old flames from years back still wonder what they are up to. And dear lord, they are very rare. They are better off recognized as a subset of the term "natural alphas" that PUAs use.