[CleanSlate]

My current Macbook Pro is 5 years old and has been slowing down as of late. So it's getting time for me to buy a new laptop.

I do NOT want to turn this into another Mac vs Windows controversy, so let's get this out of the way: I am strongly leaning towards another Macbook Pro. However, I am open to considering other options as long as I am able to do the following:

- Turn my laptop into a money-making coding rig
- Code and develop apps in both iOS and Android
- Compile in C# and Java without compatibility issues
- Be able to install development environments for virtually any programming language
- Travel with the laptop

The main question is cost and efficiency. I could buy another MBP and make a Windows partition with Bootcamp (most expensive option, but last longer)? Or I could use VM Ware? Or I could buy a cheaper windows laptop and make it into a hackintosh (never done this before and that may cause problems).

Thoughts much appreciated!

[swuglyfe]

If coding and such is all you want to do, I strongly recommend this laptop, the ASUS Zenbook UX305. Not an affiliate link.

http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX305FA-AS...book+ux305

Yes, it is low power because of the new Core M processor, but if all you're gonna be doing is compiling, debugging, and running emulators, then it should work for you. Most importantly, you sound like you will be travelling a lot looking at your Phil thread. This laptop is only 2.6 lbs and .5 in thick because of the fanless design. Also, super duper important, matte display, not glossy, no glare, easier readability in light.

And the PRICE is miles ahead of the MBP.

If you need something more along the lines of a MBP though, then I would recommend this from the Windows side. Not being paid by ASUS to push their products, I've just been a huge fan of them and their work. This is my current rig and I love it to death.

http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX303LN-DB...ok+ux303ln

If you have any questions or concerns, definitely let me know. I'm plugged into the tech industry and basically have an encyclopedic database of all the latest machines because I'm 'that guy' my friends ask "What should I get?"

[CleanSlate]

Thanks swuglyfe. Would I be able to run Mac OSX, and do coding for iOS/OSX, on those Zenbooks?

[Menace]

Apple just released an updated MBP with ForceTouch touch pad. After a certain point, you get tired of wasting time configuring computers, and just want to do your work. Get a new MPB, migrate your old one to it, and be up and running seamlessly. I would never do a hackintosh. You can run Windows in VMware.

[swuglyfe]

(05-19-2015 11:32 AM)Menace Wrote:  

Apple just released an updated MBP with ForceTouch touch pad. After a certain point, you get tired of wasting time configuring computers, and just want to do your work. Get a new MPB, migrate your old one to it, and be up and running seamlessly. I would never do a hackintosh. You can run Windows in VMware.

You can definitely code for iOS on them, the part I don't see happening very easily is getting OSX to run on it. If that's a deal breaker, I agree with Menace that you need an MBP. Perhaps virtualization tech has become better as of late, but it's usually the tech to run Windows on Mac, not the other way round...

Thankfully, you aren't like most of the retards in college who buy the fully configured 15 in. Retina model so that they can have a $1600 Netflix machine, and will actually be using it intensively for something.

[Phoenix]

I don't really want to Win-vs-Mac either, but the latest Win8 is rather smooth. I like the 'hit winkey, type first few letters of app or directory, hit enter' style. Could be worth at least a quick look next time you're in a computer shop. One thing I don't get is the way mac laptops are products defined by a broad name like 'Macbook Pro', versus what actually matters: the CPU. When I search 'Macbook Pro', that's it. Just a picture of 'the Macbook Pro'. I didn't buy 'an ASUS' or a 'Dell', I bought 'a CPU with benchmark X, which is made by some manufacturer'. That said, I have nothing but good things to say about Dell laptops.

All that really does matter with programming is: a good IDE, minimal OS compatibility issues, and speed. Emphasis on the latter. Hence whenever I'm getting a computer with coding in mind, what I'm looking at is the CPU benchmark, the SSD speeds, and ensuring it has more RAM than it ever needs. Then I choose OS based on whatever works easier.

I've had the 'should we use a separate OS partition or use a VM' discussion many times. I've never met anyone who ever actually ended up going the separate partition route. Everyone I've known uses a VM for every other OS they use*, and has usually run them in Windows. Ideally you don't want the extra computation layer of the VM, but the performance gain is never worth the hassle and time of rebooting when you need to use something in the other OS.

*Some more hardcore dudes I know just had two laptops or desktops next to each other with network connection.

[CleanSlate]

(05-19-2015 12:27 PM)swuglyfe Wrote:  

but it's usually the tech to run Windows on Mac, not the other way round...

Yes, after my asking around, this statement is confirmed to be true to this day. That tips me into the Mac camp. Which brings me to the specs - looking in apple store I am seeing:

2.7 GHz processor
8 GB memory
128 GB flash storage, or for $200 more, 256 GB

I don't think I need anything faster than 2.7 GHz or more than 8 GB, because I don't intend to game intensively on it. But I might actually develop games in the near future... so performance may be a big consideration? I could go up to 3.1 GHz, which doesn't seem like a huge jump from 2.7... it might be more beneficial to go 16 GB memory instead.

I'm also not sure about whether to go with 128 or 256 GB storage. Goes going higher mean I can load apps faster? Would it help me to run Windows faster through VMWare as well?

(05-19-2015 12:33 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

*Some more hardcore dudes I know just had two laptops or desktops next to each other with network connection.

I can understand the rationale behind doing that, and would go this route if it's cheaper to get two laptops with two OS's, but I plan to travel and be location independent. Not sure I'd want to carry around two laptops with me on the road.

[Aliblahba]

(05-19-2015 12:37 PM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

I can understand the rationale behind doing that, and would go this route if it's cheaper to get two laptops with two OS's, but I plan to travel and be location independent. Not sure I'd want to carry around two laptops with me on the road.

If I ever pull the plug and go location independent, and my livelihood comes from a laptop, I will spring for one of these:


http://www.amazon.com/G751JY-DH71-17-3-i...rds=g751jy


   


Yeah they're fucking expensive and heavy, but compared to other gaming laptops on the market, they have the best value. I'm not a computer guru, but with a 1TB HD, can't you partition and run multiple iOS's? These G series rigs are fucking fast. I'm not a big gamer either, but it's a good way to kill time overseas. Asus used to have an international warranty program, also.

http://commercial.asus.com/support/asus_...vice_terms

CleanSlate! You better not run back off to the Phils and leave me by myself with these crazy gun-toting Texas women.

[Phoenix]

- The GHz means nothing. Look at the benchmarking lists:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/
- Memory size only effects speed if you ever breach the limit (in which case it hits the page file, which is on the SSD). In the unlikely case you breach 8GB, you'll be able to see it on the Task Manager's Performance tab (or whatever mac uses). Running VMs won't by itself breach 8GB (speaking from experience), it mostly depends on if you are doing anything memory intensive (multimedia etc). Memory speed is a factor in the general computing speed though.
- The size of the SSD has no bearing on any speed. The SSD speed (MB/s write/read) does. A fast SSD read speed materially affects the speed of loading of apps. If you want to go even more hardcore you can RAID 0 two SSDs together. I saw a video on youtube where a guy RAID 0 'd 16 SSD drives together, then selected every application on the computer, then hit run. It was epic.

Also some processes (threading) respond better to more cores (especially multimedia work like video processing), and other processes (non-threading) respond better to single core speed. I don't know which camp the compilers you will be using will fall into, but this is something to consider.

[Alfa]

Look into a used thinkpad.

[Oz.]

Are you Linux friendly?

[pheonix500000]

(05-19-2015 04:18 PM)Oz. Wrote:  

Are you Linux friendly?

We know Colombian girls are

[CleanSlate]

(05-19-2015 04:18 PM)Oz. Wrote:  

Are you Linux friendly?

I know Linux and how to use it, but I rather not go the Ubuntu route.

[villageindian]

You haven't mentioned why your current laptop is slowing down.
* If its the HDD, consider putting an SSD and you will give it good life.
* If its RAM, consider upgrading the RAM as these are not soldered to the board.
* You can buy a brand new battery through OWC and start fresh from the cycle count.
* Which OS are you on? Perhaps consider backing it up and reinstall if you have the installer disks.

I did all of the above to my 2010 MBP and it runs brand new on Mavericks. Granted, I don't code as its a regular laptop but things like the above can extend the laptop for some more time. Stay away from Hackintosh though as it is difficult and time wasting to set one.

If you really need a new laptop, get the retina 13" refurbished MBP (with i5)/15" with i7 from the Apple Store.
* Its cheaper than a newer MBP and you don't need ForceTouch while coding apps (at least for now).
* You can max out/upgrade yourself (depending on model) the RAM for future proofing and using VM.
* The development environments are supported for the OS's you put there.
* Its better to go with the i7 because of the number of cores which will help during VM's. i5 are either single or dual core.
* Also, the newer MBP released recently are actually slower than the older i5/i7 because Intel has been delaying the newer processors for the MBP. So Apple has been tweaking them downwards to match the processors.
* The newer MBP are retina-based. Once you go retina, you will not like to go back. Retina will ruin your taste (in a good way). You will not like to look at your older screen. But if you are coding, you are expected to support Retina display on idevices as Apple requires you to do so in their apps.

Apple just released the new 15" MBP yesterday so go and check it out as well.

[CleanSlate]

You guys have given me a lot to think about.

First, I will try uninstalling all the weird programs that somehow accumulated on my current MBP.

Second, once I decide which new laptop I will buy, I will do a wipe on my old MBP and sell it.

[Gringuito]

I have a Hackintosh desktop and I wouldn't recommend it if you're using it for business. It's great to play around with but you'll run into strange problems often. Also, certain parts of OSX won't work properly at all on a Hackintosh (Message) without quite a bit of work.

I have the new Retina MBP with SSD. I've run XCode on the OSX side as well as Visual Studio in a VM and in Bootcamp. It handles everything fine for my sized projects. I'd recommend getting a 256 GB SSD at least since you need a Windows partition on the SSD as well. You should have at least 8 GB RAM but 16 is better if you're running an iOS emulator, Windows VM, and Android emulator/VM, and development environments. You'll still want to boot into Windows for final testing of code since the VMs are great but not perfect.

A new MBP was just released today with the Force Touch trackpad, faster flash storage, longer battery life and Radeon R9 M290X. I'd take a good look at that. The faster SSD storage will help compile times. And the M290X is a current graphics card, much better than the 750M in the old MBP.

[kerouac]

Apple's hardware is worth the extra dinero, en mi opinión.

I am running OS X on a Dell desktop, and it runs fine, but like Gringuito said, getting Messages to properly run took a bit of work. When it comes to laptops, I have yet to encounter a Windows-based laptop that comes close to the build quality of an Apple laptop.

Also, if budget is an issue, I have heard Apple's refurbished products are a great value.

[Savage]

(05-19-2015 10:26 AM)swuglyfe Wrote:  

If you need something more along the lines of a MBP though, then I would recommend this from the Windows side. Not being paid by ASUS to push their products, I've just been a huge fan of them and their work. This is my current rig and I love it to death.

http://www.amazon.com/Zenbook-UX303LN-DB...00KTL21RA/

If you have any questions or concerns, definitely let me know. I'm plugged into the tech industry and basically have an encyclopedic database of all the latest machines because I'm 'that guy' my friends ask "What should I get?"

I currently have the UX303LN (1080p display not the 1800p) and would definitely recommend it. It even has a extra m-sata mini slot so you can install an extra 128gb SSD (may be handy if you want to dual boot operating systems) I plan to do this but at the moment I am just using a 1TB SSD drive in two partitions (which is more than enough anyway).

It's pretty awesome to have an ultrabook sized laptop with i7 cpu, dedicated graphics & 1TB of storage, while being small enough to travel with. Plus you can just plug it into a monitor with mouse and keyboard and use it as a normal PC when at home.

[CleanSlate]

I have a pretty good idea which direction I want to go. Now it's just a matter of drilling down into the specs and pricing details, along with ancillary costs for the software that I'll need to install. I'll report back when I've done my research.

[Marmite]

Something to consider, I believe that if you are writing apps for iOS then they need to be compiled on a Mac in order to comply with Apples App developers terms. There may be ways around it, but I've read of developers having all their apps pulled for violating the terms.

[CleanSlate]

Here's what I'm thinking:

15" MBP
2.5 GHz with Intel i7
16 GB RAM
512 GB Flash Storage

I can get this new for $2499, or refurbished for $1999.

How much can I trust the quality of Apple's refurbished products? This appeals to me because with the money I save, I can use those funds to buy a full version of Windows 8 and various coding platforms.

[CleanSlate]

Plunked down the cash for a refurbished with an extended warranty. Now as long as I use this laptop for coding mostly, I should be able to deduct this expense off my taxable income.

[Gringuito]

You bought the exact same MBP that I have. The refurbished should be just fine. The $500 difference for the brand new vs refurbished is much faster flash storage speeds (I think double) and a newer faster graphics card. The IO speed may have helped compile times a bit but only if your compile times are very long. They both use the Haswell chips so CPU speeds are the same. The only downside I've had with the retina display is in BootCamp getting a perfect looking scaling for the UI elements.

[roberto]

Nice one. You'll have way a way bigger % of residual value in a 5 year old Mac compared to a 5 year old PC too.

[BBinger]

(05-20-2015 08:53 AM)CleanSlate Wrote:  

Here's what I'm thinking:

15" MBP
2.5 GHz with Intel i7
16 GB RAM
512 GB Flash Storage

I can get this new for $2499, or refurbished for $1999.

How much can I trust the quality of Apple's refurbished products? This appeals to me because with the money I save, I can use those funds to buy a full version of Windows 8 and various coding platforms.

I tend to hear better reviews of refurbished macs since about 2004 than the new ones, at least as far as the display goes. As bulk as Apple goes the first part of the first run of any Mac a good portion end up going to the Apple store to get screens swapped, refurb this likely already happened.

Specs look great though. Can probably shave a bit of the price by going for an i5, but if you have the money there isn't a compelling reason to. It's a lot more power than I'd use to code, but then again you are looking to do C# and Java for mobile and those VM's will slow things down a bit.

You've got the money and you are targeting a great machine. If anything I'd consider a second display and moar SSD space.