[OGNorCal707]

I need to work on my smile, for some reason ever since I was a teenager I've had trouble smiling. It may sound kind of odd, but I've always been self conscious about how I look when I smile, especially a big open wide mouthed grin. I feel like I look better with a closed lip smile, that often times may look like a smirk.

I post this because, I think "the look" + "the smile" is a great IOI from women and is important to return in like when you receive it from an attractive female.

In the past I've struggled with body language, eye contact, and awkward mannerism and body language. Fortunately through study, practice, and self awareness I've been able to overcome a lot of my issues in that department, and can say that I feel that the majority of the time now I project confident body language, through good posture, slow movements, spreading out and taking up space, etc.

Eye contact is probably the thing I struggled the most with in the past and still need to work on. Fortunately now I know that you mustn't be the first one to break eye contact with a woman, especially when she is the one who initiates the gaze. The most beta and submissive thing you can do is break eye contact and look down and away. This projects a lack of confidence, and also a beta submissive nature to women.

Okay so I know not to break eye contact, so I maintain eye contact, but now my issue is that I return eye contact that is too piercing and strong, some women may find it intriguing, dominant (?), etc., but to a lot of them I probably come across as too serious, rigid, or possibly cold, angry (?), etc.

Now what I need to do is work on my smile, which for me is a difficult thing to do, since I've never been much of a "smiler". Trying to understand my own psychology I think this may stem from a lot of repressed depression and frustrations as a child and teenager that manifested in my body language, mannerism, and social functioning. Also having gone to schools that were at that time mostly lower income and "rougher around the edges", I kind of felt the pressure to put up a "tough guy" kind of face, which became a scowl, to not appear as a weak or easy target.

At this point in my life I need to overcome those past habits and tendencies, I need to relax my face and my gaze, I need to work on smiling and projecting a "positive fun vibe". Smiling is essential in doing this, and I noticed the times when I was receiving strong IOIs from women and then gave them the "look + smile", it made my approach very smooth and successful.

Recently I had a really fine chick (8.5) walking past me in the gym hallway give me the look and the smile, I maintained eye contact with her, but couldn't bring a smile to my face. As she passed me and was walking in the other direction, the voice of reason entered my head. "You shmuck that gorgeous girl just gave you the vibe, why didn't you smile at her, say hi, and stop her to chat for a second!" At that point it was too late and I haven't seen her in the gym since.

[Lizard King]

You need to relax a bit.

Most women will not be too worried about the details of your smile.

They will detect that you're not relaxed about yourself, and get turned off.

Keep them turned on by not worrying about things you can't really change.

Just my 2 cents, I expect you will get better advice than this from other members.

[jariel]

You'd be better off learning how to smile with your eyes.

[Frontenac]

You could do what they tell actors in actor's classes. If you want to smile, think of the funniest shit you can remember, and you will smile. I've heard its through memories how great actors can cry. They think of a tragedy that happened to them and it gets them on the way to crying. The same goes for smiling.

[Nascimento]

Check out 1:05. May be the example you are looking for:

When smiling to girls I prefer closed lip smiles, always.

[coverdoc]

Yeah that video by Nascimento sums it up. I never liked to smile (had fucked up teeth) so I'd try to do a combination of a slight smirk with just a teeny weeny bit of teeth showing. Got those braces on and off now I smile like a mother fucker has won the lottery. If you don't want to smile something I have found that helps with the intense/tough guy resting face is to just raise the eyebrows. Makes you come off less intimidating and more pleasantly intrigued.

-CD

[Sombro]

[Handsome Creepy Eel]

How about a good old koala face?

[kosko]

The smile is a important thing. It is the most common complement I get from women. If you have a good one many will let you know. For me, it adds contrast to my regular mean looking African mug.

Not all smiles are equal though. Your photography smile is different then a real life one. For all the complements I get on mine, I still don't think my photo one is that good which always surprised me when girls would get swoon of it in real life. Photo smiles can be tough becsuse 90% of them are fake and forced which is a skill you have to master versus a natural smile that happens when your in a good state.

A good smile doesn't show to much teeth.

You never want your bottom teeth to show.

You want to know how to parse your lips if they are big or small. You just practice ur until it feels right.

Because one you know how it feels you then just do it and it feels natural.

All above are little tips. Practice helps also. Women practice camera posses and smiles all the time. If you practice a speech by yourself talking then it isn't any different then practicing a good camera in the mirror.

For real life just put yourself in positions of a good state. For many men of my set who are African or Caribbean we typically have great smiles from growing up shooting shit and telling jokes with our homies. Our smiles are born from hurting our faces laughing and joking. If your not getting sore in the face spending time with your close homies then you gotta find something that does as that is the best way to train your face to naturally have a good, open, and proper smile.

[Nascimento]

^^ Good breakdown on smiling above by kosko.

I do have a great smile, though it's definitely something I've practiced. In the past I've looked over group pictures where I've smiled and criticized myself for improvement. Not enough in the eyes, open vs closed lips, sometimes a bit in between, etc. As previously mentioned, learning how to smile in the eyes is huge.

Also, studying others' smiles will help as well. Learn to tell the difference between genuine and the fake ones. Go on facebook and look at your friends' group pictures. At least 50% of the time there are fake smiles on display. Something you wouldn't be able to tell unless you've become quite perceptive.

Wide, open lipped smiles with no emotional expression from the eyes is just so cringe worthy.

[Brian Shima]

A good smile doesnt show bottom teeth or to much teeth? That is news to me because I have a huge smile that shows both and girls tell me I should show it more.

[realologist]

Other things that makes a good smile that are out of your control are face structure and dimples. I've never met a woman that doesn't like dimples.

For things that you can control, obviously first should be to have clean, straight and intact teeth. If you have busted, crooked, yellow teeth like a tweaker that just went on a meth binge your smile won't look good.



I like Frotenac's advice of thinking of something funny. I don't think there are many people that have bad looking genuine smiles.





See the difference

[Ingocnito]

Whenever I'm conscious of smiling, i.e. when someone wants to take a group pic or whatever, I always flub it up, and look either pissed or dorky. Whenever I'm not conscious of it, or just hold a smile briefly for a photo and it's snapped right away, I look pretty decent.

I've always wondered how so many people are able to hold a long, good looking smile, esp. for all these photo bombs with phones nowadays.

[Giovonny]

(04-18-2015 06:06 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

I think this may stem from a lot of repressed depression and frustrations as a child and teenager that manifested in my body language, mannerism, and social functioning.

When we met, a few years ago, I could sense this..

Your vibe was very "stoic". I mean, it was fun hanging with you and I really enjoyed talking to you but girls need to see more engaging, more emotive, more inviting, more "fun loving" type of body and facial language.

I used to have the same exact problem!

I was too unemotional, too cynical, not expressive enough.

My sense of humor had been suppressed by the pressures of modern life.

I had to "lighten up", relax and learn to enjoy life more.

Anger and depression is not attractive to girls -- unless, it is balanced out by fun.

I'm not saying that you were angry and depressed, you obviously were not.

I'm just saying that are inner cynicism often is reflected in our body and facial language.

Learning how to gently smirk and smile has helped me a lot with girls.

[Cr33pin]

When a girl says something funny to OGNorCal707

[turuk]

Try this one. The half-smile:



Having a full smile is kind of creepy when there is nothing to smile at.

[Remington]

Go to a mirror and try out different smiles. Pick one that fits your demeanor when you are out on the town. I smile in my mirror every time before I go out, especially if I'm in a bad mood. The longer I hold my smile, the better I start to feel. It literally puts me in a good mood. Try it once or twice.

[Sonoma]

Welcome to my fucking life. I haven't had the psychological stuff, but I've had a shitty smile my whole life that it took me a really long time to become comfortable with

I'm aware it's bad enough to justify a trigger warning, it's fucking ugly



However, I've learned to just smile and show my upper teeth, which from a distance works fine. Zero fucks about my face being in this. Dead center with a smile.

I also have a horrible issue with getting shit stuck in my teeth, which makes it even harder, but if you put off a fun good time vibe, it helps compensate